Best Expansion of the last 10 years (2013-2023)

[Tallguy 3,401]

Someone mentioned Tomorrow Never Dies as the best expansion in years. It's great, but I don't think that's it. (For me. This is obviously a personal choice, no matter how much we might think otherwise.)

 

It's been kind of a blurry 10 years. All the Star Treks were before 2013. (Very high points for me.) We haven't had any Star Wars expansions. (OTOH we had five new Star Wars scores, three of them from JW.)

 

I'm sure I'm missing something landmark and obvious, but for me I keep coming back to The Eiger Sanction, Always, and Close Encounters. (I suppose I should include E.T.?) Of those, Eiger keeps edging in for the win. They could have just released the LP so getting the LP and the score is a dream. I never had it before and there isn't much (anything?) in my collection that sounds like it, Williams or otherwise.

 

Wow. I'm realizing that there is also Apollo 13 and Titanic in here. Which have gone from "essential" to "gee, I'm glad I have that". Oh! The Rocketeer! That probably breaks into the list.

 

So if I have to pick one I'll say Eiger.

 

You guys can now refresh an old man's memory.

[Romão 2,274]

There are many worthy expansions, but the ones that probably increased my appreciation for a score the most were Dracula and The Lost World

[LSH 969]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

Someone mentioned Tomorrow Never Dies as the best expansion in years. It's great, but I don't think that's it.

 

That was me, haha. I wasn't being totally literal, although it's fair to say that I don't indulge in physical purchases as much as I once did, so that one did excite me tremendously.

 

I think, since you mentioned it, the La-La Land expansion of Titanic was, for me, the most important and enjoyable within that time frame.

[crocodile 8,017]

Dracula

The Lost World

The Eiger Sanction

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

Superman: The Movie

An American Tail

Willow

The Haunting

Tomorrow Never Dies

A.I. Artificial Intelligence 

War of the Worlds 

Die Hard

Empire of the Sun

Minority Report

Mission: Impossible

The Peacemaker

 

Karol

 

[Indianagirl 298]

When you guys say Dracula do you mean Bram Stoker's or John Williams deluxe dracula from verese (I think)?

[Bespin 8,484]

I think the "best" expansion title should define an expansion who offered a totally new perspective on a score in comparison to what it was previously featured on the OST. Then it should offer a program and a sound that are enjoyable, so it implies that some editorial choices were made, and that they make concensus.

 

Yes.

 

A.I. Artificial Intelligence

[crocodile 8,017]

15 minutes ago, Indianagirl said:

When you guys say Dracula do you mean Bram Stoker's or John Williams deluxe dracula from verese (I think)?

Both are great, to be honest. But I personally mean JW.

 

Karol

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

There was so many great expansions this past decade. To me the very best are the John Williams Harry Potter Collection, just for the amount of music and A.I. for the complete rediscovery of what has now become one of my five favourite scores (SW aside)

 

Here's the Williams list in no particuliar order:

• Fiddler on the Roof by John Williams (the expansion made me rediscover this gem)
• CE3K by John Williams
• Superman: The Movie by John Williams (one of my favourite score so obviously it's here)
• Superman II / Superman III by Ken Thorne
• Superman IV: The Quest for Peace by John Williams & Alexander Courage
• E.T. by John Williams (same as Superman)
• Always by John Williams (it was one of Williams' weakest work to my eyes until this presentation came)
• Home Alone (25th Anniversary) by John Williams
• Far and Away by John Williams (I've always been a fan of this score, to have it complete now is a true gift)
• The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection by John Williams (same as E.T. and Superman)
• Jurassic Park (Remastered) by John Williams
• Schindler's List by John Williams
• Amistad by John Williams
• Saving Private Ryan by John Williams
• Minority Report by John Williams
• The Eiger Sanction by John Williams (I love the OST but it had such an awful sound and this expansion sounds so clear, that it could be one of the most useful expansion ever made)
• Jaws by John Williams (same as E.T., Superman and JP)
• Jaws 2 by John Williams (it made me love it more than the first score)
• Monsignor by John Williams
• The River by John Williams (a hidden Williams gem, that I now listen to on a regular basis)
• SpaceCamp by John Williams
• War of the Worlds by John Williams
• The Cowboys by John Williams (another hidden gem)
• Dracula by John Williams (same as A.I.)
• Presumed Innocent by John Williams
• Stanley & Iris by John Williams
• Images by John Williams (another hidden gem)

 

And another list for other composers:

• Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan by James Horner (a complete discovery for me)
• Krull by James Horner (same as above)
• Glory by James Horner (same as above)
• Clear and Present Danger by James Horner
• The Pagemaster by James Horner
• Casper by James Horner (a top 10 non-Williams score)
• Titanic by James Horner (obviously)
• Willow by James Horner
• The Rocketeer by James Horner
• Legends of the Fall by James Horner (another non-Williams top 10)
• Balto by James Horner (my favourite non-Williams score)
• Apollo 13 by James Horner
• Tomorrow Never Dies by David Arnold
• The World is Not Enough by David Arnold
• Die Another Day by David Arnold
• Hollow Man by Jerry Goldsmith
• The Last Castle by Jerry Goldsmith
• Air Force One by Jerry Goldsmith
• Legend by Jerry Goldsmith (a hidden gem)
• Total Recall by Jerry Goldsmith (another of my favourite)
• Basic Instinct by Jerry Goldsmith (another non-Williams top 10)
• The Good, the Bad and the Ugly by Ennio Morricone
• Silence of the Lambs by Howard Shore
• Back to the Future (all three) by Alan Silvestri
• HTTYD 1 & 2 by John Powell (two non-Williams top 10)
• Dante's Peak by John Frizzell
• Starship Troopers by Basil Poledouris (another non-Williams top 10)

Told you there was a lot of great expansions

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

I think the "best" expansion title should define an expansion who offered a totally new perspective on a score in comparison to what it was previously featured on the OST. Then it should offer a program and a sound that are enjoyable, so it implies that some editorial choices were made, and that they make concensus.

 

Yes.

 

A.I. Artificial Intelligence

 

That's why I'm not considering (for me) Superman but I am considering Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Even though the LLL Superman is the edition I listen to as is the latest release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Wrath of Khan.

 

Oh, man. I forgot Back to the Future! That seems like another LIFETIME.

 

When was Days of Thunder? Ohhhh right on the line, November 2013.

 

1 hour ago, Indianagirl said:

When you guys say Dracula do you mean Bram Stoker's or John Williams deluxe dracula from verese (I think)?

 

Probably "yes"!

[Bespin 8,484]

46 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Both are great, to be honest. But I personally mean JW.

 

Karol

 

The expansion of John William's Dracula came out in another context in 2018. The 1990 CD really sounded dead (surely because it was a LP transfer with a catastrophic denoising à la 90's) and we were told the original tapes had been lost for eternity. The 2018 release, resulting of the discovery of the tapes, straight out of a grave, was like a resurrection for us. Okay I stop my vampire puns.

 

But did the complete score experience shed a new moonbeam on the overall score? By comparison of the excellent OST that we enjoyed on the original LP for so many years? 

 

Not as much as "Chuck" Kilar's Dracula. 

[Thor 7,515]

I know, I know, I have no business in a thread like this. But just one question -- if there is a score-only release, and the only previous OST was a "songtrack" with one or two score clips, does that count as an expansion? Or a 'premiere release'? If it counts, I have a few favs within this timegap.

[Bespin 8,484]

On 06/01/2023 at 9:17 AM, Thor said:

I know, I know, I have no business in a thread like this. But just one question -- if there is a score-only release, and the only previous OST was a "songtrack" with one or two score clips, does that count as an expansion? Or a 'premiere release'? If it counts, I have a few favs within this timegap.

 

I would consider these kind of "Score" releases (in comparison to the "Soundtrack" releases) as "Premieres"... As long as the "Soundtrack album" featured "score" cues with a "single-like" (SP/45 RPM) total lenght, not more.

 

But that's my two cents.

[crocodile 8,017]

11 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

The expansion of John William's Dracula came out in another context in 2018. The 1990 CD really sounded dead (surely because it was a LP transfer with a catastrophic denoising à la 90's) and we were told the original tapes had been lost for eternity. The 2018 release, resulting of the discovery of the tapes, straight out of a grave, was like a resurrection for us. Okay I stop my vampire puns.

 

But did the complete score experience shed a new moonbeam on the overall score? By comparison of the excellent OST that we enjoyed on the original LP for so many years? 

 

Not as much as "Chuck" Kilar's Dracula. 

Oh yes, absolutely. A lot of the secondary thematic material was not present on the old album. It's less repetitive.

 

Karol

[bollemanneke 3,349]

HARRY POTTER 1-3.

[Tallguy 3,401]

53 minutes ago, Thor said:

I know, I know, I have no business in a thread like this. But just one question -- if there is a score-only release, and the only previous OST was a "songtrack" with one or two score clips, does that count as an expansion? Or a 'premiere release'? If it counts, I have a few favs within this timegap.

 

Funny, I didn't even distinguish between "expansion" and "new old stuff". Days of Thunder fits the above.

 

"Cool stuff The Labels put out that wasn't brand new." Much more precise.

 

I wish I loved the Potter scores more. That set would surely have been a grail for me.

[Jay 37,370]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

Funny, I didn't even distinguish between "expansion" and "new old stuff". Days of Thunder fits the above.

 

"Cool stuff The Labels put out that wasn't brand new." Much more precise.

 

Typically we just refer to those as "catalog releases"

[Thor 7,515]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Funny, I didn't even distinguish between "expansion" and "new old stuff". Days of Thunder fits the above.

 

"Cool stuff The Labels put out that wasn't brand new." Much more precise.

 

I wish I loved the Potter scores more. That set would surely have been a grail for me.

 

Well, not sure if that clarified it, but SCARFACE certainly fits the bill for me. A couple of score tracks on the OST, but great to have a score-only release (even if I have to weed it down a bit). DAYS OF THUNDER is certainly another good example, although I had an old boot of that that worked very well.

 

Other examples include THE BODYGUARD, BEVERLY HILLS COP, RAIN MAN and GRAND CANYON. Probably more I'm forgetting.

[filmmusic 1,837]

What do we mean by "Best" expansion?

In terms of music quality, or in terms of length of unreleased music now released?

[1977 1,743]

20 minutes ago, Thor said:

Other examples include THE BODYGUARD, BEVERLY HILLS COP, RAIN MAN and GRAND CANYON. Probably more I'm forgetting.

 

BTTF 1 fits this bill for me (prior song comp with minimal score). EDIT: oh shucks, I just reread the thread title.

 

I would struggle to formulate a top ten of expansions, let alone narrow it down to one, due to the absolute cloudburst of stuff we've received since circa the Blue Box.

 

On a contrary note, which releases would be potential candidates for the most unnecessary expansion I wonder? 🤔

[Tallguy 3,401]

30 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Well, not sure if that clarified it, but SCARFACE certainly fits the bill for me. A couple of score tracks on the OST, but great to have a score-only release (even if I have to weed it down a bit). DAYS OF THUNDER is certainly another good example, although I had an old boot of that that worked very well.

 

Other examples include THE BODYGUARD, BEVERLY HILLS COP, RAIN MAN and GRAND CANYON. Probably more I'm forgetting.

 

 

 

I don't think I knew there was an expanded Rain Man.

 

20 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

What do we mean by "Best" expansion?

In terms of music quality, or in terms of length of unreleased music now released?

 

Whatever you want it to be!

[Jay 37,370]

9 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I don't think I knew there was an expanded Rain Man.

 

Rain Man's scored was released by Perseverance Records in 2010, and then by NoteForNote Records in 2018

[Thor 7,515]

That's right. The OST had a couple of score tracks, so would technically qualify as an expansion. My pick here was the NoteforNote one -- which was both within the timeframe given, and of considerably better sound quality than the disastrous Perseverance one, which I thankfully got to sell off in time.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

4 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

• Dante's Peak by John Frizzell

 

Kinda surprised anyone else listed this. It was my #1 grail but for reasons even I can't explain. However, someone put the eruption scene on YT with isolated music, so I know I wasn't the only one who needed that cue.

 

My top picks are the Jurassic box and Sleepy Hollow, both of which were out of the blue when we thought we'd seen the last word on both scores.

 

Also War of the Worlds - a great, comprehensive presentation which also begs the question of what the hell happened to the sound when making the OST!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Harry Potter set

[Andy 4,139]

Dracula. It was an absolute grail, thought lost.  It was so special, they even gave it a slipcover like for Blu rays.  The new material made a repetitive soundtrack an absolute delight, with nice bits of familiar sounding material recalling Close Encounters and predating ESB. 
 

The other Dracula by Kilar is also noteworthy for its incredible comprehensive presentation, with treasures I had never dreamed of hearing before. 
 

Yeah, Drac has been done right. 

[Corellian2019 386]

I would have to say A.I., including its unauthorized bonus tracks from the repressing

[jacksparrow900 32]

The Godfather, Dracula, PSYCHO II and PSYCHO III these in particular took so long to get expansions. The Godfather had a OST on CD and kept reissuing the same master since 1972 until last year we finally got an expanded edition. Both Dracula and PSYCHO II were released by MCA records in 1979 and 1983 both would then be release by Varese on CD in the early 90's and after that not even a reissue of either and were out of print until both finally got the complete scores people had been waiting for. PSYCHO III was only partially released on a LP in 1986 by MCA Records and not even a CD of the album. 

[Corellian2019 386]

I forgot to mention the Lethal Weapon box set. For the second film's score in particular, there was over an hour of material that had never been released until 2013

[Tallguy 3,401]

I love Kamen and I am almost entirely unfamiliar with the LW scores.

[King Mark 3,631]

without reading the comments so far:

Harry Potter box set

Jurassic Park Box set

[PokeDocMatt 57]

AI AINEC

 

The drama of the mistakenly released tracks only makes it better. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

16 minutes ago, PokeDocMatt said:

AI AINEC

 

The drama of the mistakenly released tracks only makes it better. 

 

I don't know what that means.

[Jay 37,370]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

 

I don't know what that means.

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33914-ai-artificial-intelligence-2001-2021-20th-anniversary-edition-reissue-of-2015-3cd-set-from-la-la-land-records/page/3/

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

Not only is CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND the best expansion of the last ten years, it's the best fucking expansion, ever!

[Bespin 8,484]

@Naïve Old Fart And the "Best fucking" expansion award goes to... 

[Tallguy 3,401]

13 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Not only is CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND the best expansion of the last ten years, it's the best fucking expansion, ever!

 

Hmmmm. CE is in a muddy place for me. The LP is perfect. I mean SO PERFECT. Then the first expansion wasn't. The music is still great, to be sure. How can some of the best music John Williams has ever written depend so much on presentation? Then the LLL comes out and I fall in love with the score all over again.

 

But I think my heart belongs to either the Arista Star Wars box or the LLL Star Trek: The Motion Picture. (Which, in the case of Star Trek if we had gone from the LP to the LLL without Sony in the middle would have probably won, hands down.) (Except... Star Wars...)

 

But Close Encounters was in the last 10 years and the others weren't. (Except... Eiger...)

[Bespin 8,484]

30 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Hmmmm. CE is in a muddy place for me. The LP is perfect. I mean SO PERFECT.

 

Well, the sound of the OST has been sooo much improved in the latest 2017 expansion that, even if the Masters of the album were remasterized and reissued on CD in 2015, the best actual experience of the OST is to reproduce it with the 2017 expansion.  Mike Matessino reproduced all the edits that allow that on the 2nd CD (well, except a track that merge the Main Title and TV Reveals/Across the Country).

 

[Jay 37,370]

5 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 Mike Matessino reproduced all the edits that allow that on the 2nd CD (well, except the merging of the Main title and TV Reveals).

 

"Nocturnal Pursuit" isn't re-created either.

[Bespin 8,484]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

"Nocturnal Pursuit" isn't re-created either.

 

You are right, I forgot it. 

 

At least the B-side is here, intact!

[mstrox 6,651]

And the disco track.  Where’s my disco track?

[Jay 37,370]

That wasn't part of JW's (2nd, compromised) OST program, it was something made after the fact that was pressed onto a 33RPM 7" stuffed into the LP packaging

 

Per Mike M:

 

Here's the rundown of what happened and my thoughts on it.

The originally intended end credits music was the Williams arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star," recorded on the second day of scoring, June 3, 1977.

By the time it came to preview the film, Spielberg decided to take it a step further, pulling out the Williams arrangement and adding in the actual song as heard in Disney's Pinocchio. The 2-LP assembly of the soundtrack even included it and the rights to do so were cleared.

The movie previewed in Dallas on October 13, 1977, and a lot of the reaction cards contained strong negative comments about the song. The knee-jerk response was to not just go back to Williams' arrangement, but to quickly edit together other music to cover the credits. As pointed out, it was parts of "TV Reveals," "Roy and Jillian on the Road," and then circling back to the final part of "Resolution."

Another takeaway from the preview was that Arista reps determined that the soundtrack album did not have the same sales potential as Star Wars and so the assembled 2-LP album was cut down to one, and the work was done so fast that for the end credits they simply mixed down what had just been edited for the picture -- the actual film dubbing elements -- and stuck it onto the new album master. That is why "Resolution and End Title" has always sounded of inferior quality on the album.

The disco piece was commissioned as part of this, based on how well Meco's Star Wars had done and seeing Saturday Night Fever on the horizon. It was recorded in early November, and the track "Nocturnal Pursuits," created for the newly shortened album, was selected for the B-side of the 45 rpm release. The 7-inch 33 rpm was made for the soundtrack album, but there was nothing on the B-side.

Also cut after the preview was the introduction to the Nearys, replaced with a Jiminy Cricket music box playing "When You Wish." This was the solution to the deletion of all the dialogue about taking the kids to see Pinocchio but needing to motivate Ronnie calling Roy "Jiminy Cricket." The music box plays through the whole scene in the 1977 version because they had a certain length of allowable time to use the song once it was cut from the end credits. (The later appearance of the music box was also an insert filmed after the main scene.)

By 1980, distanced from the preview reactions and with the film having been embraced, Spielberg put back in the original Neary introduction that had been previewed and went back to his original intention to use "When You Wish." Williams' original ending arrangement was reinstated and he was also able to quote it in his new "Inside" music, recorded in Boston (Spielberg stopping there for the sessions on his way to France to begin filming Raiders).

Personally, I like the use of the song and Williams' arrangement, especially with the extra black at the end over which it plays. It's a gentle, tonal bookend to the opening dark screen with the building dissonant chord. It has meaning to this story that connects music with transcendence. The edited music that they changed it to is just tracked music to run over credits, entirely utilitarian. The Williams arrangement is only heard on the 1980 version of the film, but to me it belongs there and is my preferred ending. That's just my opinion about it.

For those who want the crossover from "Contact" to "End Title," the re-creation of the album track is at the end of La-La Land's CD2. The only reason they were combined together initially, even on the scrapped 2-LP album, is because the first cue also uses "When You Wish" and therefore the song could be cleared for one track rather than two. But things are a bit different now with these limited editions when it comes to derivative tracks - it was easier to clear the song for an extra track than it was to create a derivative track that exceeded 5 minutes and pushed it into the next mechanical rate tier. Plus the clean ending to "Contact" would not have otherwise been heard on the first disc.

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=148453&forumID=1&archive=0

[Tallguy 3,401]

1 minute ago, mstrox said:

And the disco track.  Where’s my disco track?

 

I don't know how full the disc is, but that was a surprising omission. I don't know that I'd trade anything for it. But that's because I have it on the original CD.

[Bespin 8,484]

2 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I don't know how full the disc is, but that was a surprising omission. I don't know that I'd trade anything for it. But that's because I have it on the original CD.

 

The Disco version is on the 2015 remastered CD too.

 

But like I said earlier, once we listened to the 2017 expansion, it's hard to go back!!!

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

@Bespin, has the CE3K SACD been remixed in 5.1.

[Jay 37,370]

No, it's a stereo-only SACD.

 

The thread for it is here: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25674-close-encounters-ost-also-being-reissued-on-sacd

[Bespin 8,484]

I think a good expansion should always offer the possibility to recreate the OST... when it's possible. I guess for CE3K they did their very best to fill 2-CD without making too much repetitions. And well, without edits, we can manage to make something that is very close to the OST.

 

But I think many of us would buy a newly remixed CE3K OST done by Mike Matessino, and of course, including this time, the Disco version!

[Jay 37,370]

It is shocking how many times Mike or Neil has re-created an OST program from original session elements, and the music label that has the OST album up on digital sites just leaves the old master up instead of replacing it with the new rebuild

[Datameister 2,044]

A bunch of releases come to mind, each for slightly different reasons:

 

• CE3K: thoughtful program that still allows for C&C rearranging if you prefer
• Superman: vastly improved sound quality, even if I don't listen that often
• The Cowboys: never had the OST, love the score
• Jaws: better sound quality, and I listen often
• Potter set: huge amounts of great new music, despite some disappointing omissions
• JP set: I'll never need another release of either score—definitive presentations that I listen to often
• E.T.: another definitive presentation; less new music, but I listen often

I'll say JP, with Potter an extremely close second.

 

That being said, I'm listening to CE3K this morning.

[Jay 37,370]

5 minutes ago, Datameister said:

The Cowboys: never had the OST, love the score

 

The Cowboys did not have an OST album.

 

The LP in stores in the 70s was a bootleg some random dude put together, while the 1994 Varese CD was something Robert Townson assembled without input from Williams.

 

The Deluxe Edition release is the first and only time John Williams had any input on a Cowboys album.

[Datameister 2,044]

46 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

The Cowboys did not have an OST album.

 

The LP in stores in the 70s was a bootleg some random dude put together, while the 1994 Varese CD was something Robert Townson assembled without input from Williams.

 

The Deluxe Edition release is the first and only time John Williams had any input on a Cowboys album.

 

Fair enough—I was referring to the Varese CD but I'd forgotten about that whole situation.