What's a score you wished John Williams did?

[GerateWohl 4,370]

43 minutes ago, Holko said:

Primal ugly violent weird rhythms are perfect.

Right. But that's not what Shore did. He put there quite conventional rhythms. There is nothing weird about it. And that is what I miss.

42 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

disagree. Williams' villain music - stuff like the Imperial March or even Duel of the Fates - is too rhythmically propulsive. It makes it feel groovy. I remember back in 1980 Williams said he wrote a new theme for Vader and the Empire that's "evil but fun."

 

That kind of treatment of evil - "evil but fun" - would not work for The Lord of the Rings.

So, you are basically saying that Williams is incapable of differentiating between the requirements of a fantasy drama like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars?

 

There I must strongly dissagree.

 

We are here not talking about some RCP composer with a very limited musical vocabulary, we are talking about John Williams. Of course I would have rather expected something like Land of the Sand People than Duel of the Fates.

[Chen G. 3,949]

13 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

So, you are basically saying that Williams is incapable of differentiating between the requirements of a fantasy drama like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars?

 

I think Williams has a certain style, which is more suitable to those more fanciful, swashbuckling kinds of fantasy film, and Howard Shore has a certain style, which is more suitable for this more gloomy kind of fantasy film.

 

That's not to say I'm not immensly curious as to what a Williams (or, more concievably, a Horner) Lord of the Rings score would have been like!

[GerateWohl 4,370]

16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I think Williams has a certain style, which is more suitable to those more fanciful, swashbuckling kinds of fantasy film, and Howard Shore has a certain style, which is more suitable for this more gloomy kind of fantasy film.

 

That's not to say I'm not immensly curious as to what a Williams (or, more concievably, a Horner) Lord of the Rings score would have been like!

And still I disagree with the statement, that Williams' style is not suitable here. Imagine a score more related to War of the Worlds, Dracula, maybe Far and Away for the folkloristic parts. And please now, don't take these 1:1. Because I am sure, he would have come up with something uniquely brillant. From what you say, I guess you would have never trusted Williams to write a score like Memoirs of a Geisha or Images because you don't see these kinds of scores in his spectrum.

But he can do these things. He can do anything. He's an expert.

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Imagine a score more related to War of the Worlds, Dracula, maybe Far and Away for the folkloristic parts.

 

Yeah, I suppose. Also, by way of Star Wars scores, Revenge of the Sith is quite heavy.

 

Like I said, greatly intrigued by the idea, but I prefer what I got.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

It would have been the best to use music from Wagner's Ring in LotR.

[Chen G. 3,949]

10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It would have been the best to use music from Wagner's Ring in LotR.

 

I mean, Sir John Boorman did it with his almost-Lord of the Rings film. How well it works, depends on the section of the film. I've seen other films with a Wagner soundtrack - the Wagner miniseries not being the least of them - where it felt like Wagner's music was overwhelming the visuals. It was like putting a cheese cake on a burger and topping it all of with pizzas for buns.

 

But the homage that Howard made to The Ring (Doug says Howard told him he had Gotterdamerung in mind, but in a recent interview Howard mentioned Walkure, which hits a little closer to the mark for me) is among his finest compositions.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Which composition are you referring to?

[Chen G. 3,949]

Starting 4:34:

 

 

which sounds a little bit like the very beginning of the Ring, but also like the music of Wotan putting Brunnhilde to sleep (including the arpeggios under the music of the magic flames) at the end of Walkure. Of course, all those motifs also appear in the closing immolation at the end of the Ring, but it ultimately reminds me more of Walkure and Rheingold - even of Lohengrin - than of Gotterdamerung.

 

Whatever it is, its gorgeous.

[Faleel 5,356]

"If there was ever a chance to write in a Max Steiner vein, this was it!" ~ Howard Shore

 

"If there was ever a chance to write in a Korngold vein, this was it! ~ also Howard Shore apparently.

 

[Andy 4,138]

Besides the obvious Superman II, I would've liked Williams to get a Star Trek movie.

 

Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country would be my first choice.  Imagine a Williams theme for Spock.  And perhaps another unique one for Kirk.  Some Lost World style tribal stuff for the Klingon prison colony.  Plus some cello chugging action music for the fight sequences there.  And of course the final space battle.  Not sure he could top Eidelman's "Sign Off", but I'm betting that indeed he could've.  But just imagine the Final voyage of the TOS crew scored by J. Williams.

 

Star Trek IV The Voyage Home would be my second choice.  I actually love Rosenman's score, but the story would've given Williams both Space and grounded Earth canvases on which to dazzle us.  I am confident he would've improved the Hospital Chase and Chekov's Run.

 

In both films, it would've been cool to hear Williams adapt Alexander Courage's themes, as they had such a close friendship, and I think Johnny would make the Enterprise soar in his own way.  It's a shame he never got to pencil music for the most beautiful and iconic spaceship ever on film.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

He would have written a great Nightmare on Elm Street score.  Imaginative dream sequences with lots of room for differing musical approaches 

[Andy 4,138]

Fun to think about if he had returned to score the Lost In Space movie.

[Tallguy 3,399]

26 minutes ago, Andy said:

Besides the obvious Superman II, I would've liked Williams to get a Star Trek movie.

 

Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country would be my first choice.  Imagine a Williams theme for Spock.  And perhaps another unique one for Kirk.  Some Lost World style tribal stuff for the Klingon prison colony.  Plus some cello chugging action music for the fight sequences there.  And of course the final space battle.  Not sure he could top Eidelman's "Sign Off", but I'm betting that indeed he could've.  But just imagine the Final voyage of the TOS crew scored by J. Williams.

 

Star Trek IV The Voyage Home would be my second choice.  I actually love Rosenman's score, but the story would've given Williams both Space and grounded Earth canvases on which to dazzle us.  I am confident he would've improved the Hospital Chase and Chekov's Run.

 

In both films, it would've been cool to hear Williams adapt Alexander Courage's themes, as they had such a close friendship, and I think Johnny would make the Enterprise soar in his own way.  It's a shame he never got to pencil music for the most beautiful and iconic spaceship ever on film.

 

Star Trek VI is not worthy of Williams. Sadly.

 

Imagining IV with a Space Camp era score is interesting. Although I was listening to some of the "happy go lucky" music for Dial of Destiny and wondering why I think this and Indy's First Adventure are too frivolous but I'm OK with Basket Chase. Maybe the poison is in the dose?

 

18 minutes ago, Andy said:

Fun to think about if he had returned to score the Lost In Space movie.

 

That's a case where I love the Broughton score too much. And I love the Lennertz WAY too much.

[Andy 4,138]

A modern WESTERN.  Any one of them, I don't care which.  It's a shame the Cowboys was really his last word on the genre.  Far and Away gave hints at how magical it would've been.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

Star Trek VI is not worthy of Williams. Sadly.

 

... and the ST is? 

TROS is among the biggest piles of dog shite, that JW has ever been associated with.

[Tallguy 3,399]

7 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

... and the ST is? 

TROS is among the biggest piles of dog shite, that JW has ever been associated with.

 

Hmmm. I'm not sure that's true. At the very least it's expensive. ST6 was half-baked at best and rushed out the door to have a movie for the 25th anniversary and to not end the series with 5.

 

Now would I like Williams to have scored a whip-smart full-scale galactic political thriller in the Star Trek universe that 6 was supposed to be? Sure, why not?

[ConorPower 148]

13 minutes ago, Andy said:

A modern WESTERN.  Any one of them, I don't care which.  It's a shame the Cowboys was really his last word on the genre.  Far and Away gave hints at how magical it would've been.

There's still time! Spielberg's next feature project is yet to be announced, and he's been long saying he'd love to do a western. Might also be a(another) nice career bookend, seeing as he first got to know JW's music through The Reivers and The Cowboys.

[Andy 4,138]

Star Trek VI was well-received at the time, and is still generally regarded as a fine send-off.  Williams would've smashed it into more than it is.

[Tallguy 3,399]

6 minutes ago, Andy said:

Star Trek VI was well-received at the time, and is still generally regarded as a fine send-off.  Williams would've smashed it into more than it is.

 

It was. It is. And Eidelman did a fine fine job. It's a very watchable film. It was a very fine send-off (sign off) for Kirk and Co. But it was done as much on the cheap as they could manage for a Star Trek film. Which is the same approach that gave us The Wrath of Khan. But I think they cut closer to the bone here. For one thing the cast was much more expensive than they were 9 years before.

 

I'm trying to think of the last film that Williams was involved with that wasn't considered 'A-List' from front to back?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

54 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Hmmm. I'm not sure that's true. At the very least it's expensive. ST6 was half-baked at best and rushed out the door to have a movie for the 25th anniversary and to not end the series with 5.

 

I know all that, dude, but it's still 100 times the film that TROS is.

[Andy 4,138]

It may have been scaled down, but there was still fine use of then-new(ish) morphing.  The space battle looked great.  And my theater was gasping at the assassination scene with the floating Klingon blood.  There was money on the screen, enough for Trek standards, and production quality consistent if not better than the four previous films.

[LewWho95 14]

Apart from the obvious of Harry Potter 4-8 and Fantastic Beasts, I’d have loved to hear Williams do something like Avengers or Justice League to see what he could have conjured up. 

[Andy 4,138]

How about any 1975-1984 non-sequels?  Aside from Spielberg projects like Duel, are there any original films from Williams' golden age that would've been ripe for a Williams score?

 

Imagine Flash Gordon scored by Williams. 

[Tallguy 3,399]

8 minutes ago, Andy said:

How about any 1975-1984 non-sequels?  Aside from Spielberg projects like Duel, are there any original films from Williams' golden age that would've been ripe for a Williams score?

 

Imagine Flash Gordon scored by Williams. 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

20 minutes ago, LewWho95 said:

I’d have loved to hear Williams do something like Avengers or Justice League to see what he could have conjured up. 

Even if JW scored Justice League the Snyder fanatics would still find a way to complain about the score being "too orchestral" and traditional and how Junkie XL is a superior composer bEcAuSe He WrItEs EpIc ScOrEs

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

13 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Even if JW scored Justice League the Snyder fanatics would still find a way to complain about the score being "too orchestral" and traditional and how Junkie XL is a superior composer bEcAuSe He WrItEs EpIc ScOrEs

Yeah that fanbase fucking sucks.  Not worth it

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

6 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I'm trying to think of the last film that Williams was involved with that wasn't considered 'A-List' from front to back?

 

The Book Thief?

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

14 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Replacement score? 

 

 

Well, it's just a collection of sounds.

 

by that I meant the one that Newman did because he replaced JW since he had to bow out temporarily.

[Darth Mulder 154]

John Williams still must have dozens of offers to compose music for films...but sadly we will never know about which films.

[JTN 2,031]

It would’ve been great to have John Williams Superman II & III scores and see where Williams goes with all the thematic elements he created for the first film.

 

I would have loved a Williams Batman score. 
 

Also hear Williams’ version of The Color Purple, Bridge of Spies and Ready Player One.

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

3 minutes ago, JTW said:

It would’ve been great to have John Williams Superman II & III scores and see where Williams goes with all the thematic elements he created for the first film.

 

I would have loved a Williams Batman score. 
 

Also hear Williams’ version of The Color Purple, Bridge of Spies and Ready Player One.

Not sure if this is a hot take or not, but I'm glad Williams didn't do Bridge of Spies and Ready Player One. Thomas Newman and Alan Silvestri fit those movies like a glove and delivered some of their best work last decade.

[JTN 2,031]

28 minutes ago, Courtney said:

Not sure if this is a hot take or not, but I'm glad Williams didn't do Bridge of Spies and Ready Player One. Thomas Newman and Alan Silvestri fit those movies like a glove and delivered some of their best work last decade.

I’m not saying I don’t like Newman’s or Silvestri’s score for BoS and RPO, just that I would have liked to hear John Williams’ scores written to these films.

[Andy 4,138]

The Legend of the Lone Ranger (1981)

and/or

The Lone Ranger (2013)

[Tallguy 3,399]

I think Silvestri was a better choice for RPO, but we'll never know. 

 

Bridge of Spies I saw once, but it stuck me that Newman was in a very Williams space. 

[JTN 2,031]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I think Silvestri was a better choice for RPO, but we'll never know. 

 

Bridge of Spies I saw once, but it stuck me that Newman was in a very Williams space. 

Honestly I don’t mind Williams not scoring RPO, it’s such a bad film.

 

Both Silvestri and Newman did a great job, so no complaints about the scores. I’m just curious what kind of scores Williams would’ve written for them as he was supposed to do both of them. 
I mean John Williams quoting the BACK TO THE FUTURE Theme would have been worth hearing it alone.

[filmmusic 1,836]

This!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10937004

I would die for Malick + Christ's story + Williams score!

More than any new Indy or Star Wars score in the world! 

[Darth Mulder 154]

22 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

This!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10937004

I would die for Malick + Christ's story + Williams score!

More than any new Indy or Star Wars score in the world! 

 

I'm a bigger fan of Indy than Jesus. Anyway, I'd like a few more scores from Williams.

[filmmusic 1,836]

1 minute ago, Darth Mulder said:

I'm a bigger fan of Indy than Jesus.

That much that you need 5 Indy scores, instead of 4 and a Jesus one? 

[Darth Mulder 154]

1 minute ago, filmmusic said:

That much that you need 5 Indy scores, instead of 4 and a Jesus one? 

 

Sure, sure. Jesus one? Hmm, I would probably enjoy a Williams score for The Da Vinci Code. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

9 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

 

I'm a bigger fan of Indy than Jesus. Anyway, I'd like a few more scores from Williams.

 

No religion!

[Tallguy 3,399]

What about the Church of Nolan?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

A false religion. It doesn't exist.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

On 23/06/2023 at 2:45 PM, Richard Penna said:

 

I would prefer to hear what he'd come up with for Treasure Planet over Minority Report, personally.

 

I really like JNH's score but it's fun to imagine, and MR is one of just a few JW scores that I don't think he was totally suited for.

Minority Report always struck as prime Jerry Goldsmith territory (great though JW's score is).

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

On 23/06/2023 at 3:45 PM, Richard Penna said:

I really like JNH's score but it's fun to imagine, and MR is one of just a few JW scores that I don't think he was totally suited for.

 

Schubert should have done the whole movie, but was unfortunately replaced and only a bit of his music was kept in the film.

[JTN 2,031]

On 27/06/2023 at 9:17 PM, Darth Mulder said:

I'm a bigger fan of Indy than Jesus.

Indy is also a fan of Jesus. Jesus saved his Dad, and Jesus' Dad saved Indy and Marion. 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

25 minutes ago, JTW said:

Indy is also a fan of Jesus. Jesus saved his Dad, and Jesus' Dad saved Indy and Marion. 

 

While it obviously can't be canon, I've always liked the idea of Indy starting to take the Bible more seriously after the events of Raiders and Crusade.

[JTN 2,031]

6 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

While it obviously can't be canon, I've always liked the idea of Indy starting to take the Bible more seriously after the events of Raiders and Crusade.

Yeah, finding the Ark and the Grail must've made Indy a believer. In a way, one of the few true believers because he had seen the true power of God and proof of its existence.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

49 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Schubert should have done the whole movie

 

Yes, but he was all dead.

 

…actually, great though Schubert's 7th is, I always find it a bit artificial and distracting in that scene. It seems to be source music, but does John Anderton really put on that same symphony when he uses that system, and always from the beginning, when the time he spends on it is much shorter than even its two finished movements?

[Alejandro 26]

On 26/6/2023 at 10:56 PM, Courtney said:

Not sure if this is a hot take or not, but I'm glad Williams didn't do Bridge of Spies and Ready Player One. Thomas Newman and Alan Silvestri fit those movies like a glove and delivered some of their best work last decade.

I’m a teacher and I like to put Williams music into the film clips I show in class so I don’t get bored. I put General grievous music in the U2 spy plane crash and it worked quite well!   And Reunion from Sleepers inserted at the end of Imitation Game and Stanley and Iris all throughout School Ties also was enjoyable. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

16 hours ago, Alejandro said:

I’m a teacher and I like to put Williams music into the film clips I show in class so I don’t get bored. I put General grievous music in the U2 spy plane crash and it worked quite well!   And Reunion from Sleepers inserted at the end of Imitation Game and Stanley and Iris all throughout School Ties also was enjoyable. 

This is a great idea and I'm imagining some funny combinations now (playing Kylo Ren's theme any time he shows up in a historical drama or like Marriage Story)