HOOK (1991) - NEW! 2023 3-CD Ultimate Edition Produced, Edited, and Mastered by Mike Matessino featuring all Williams/Bricusse songs

[Bespin 8,483]

Please someone make a Meme with this text "Blame Didier!"

[mstrox 6,651]

29 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Please someone make a Meme with this text "Blame Didier!"

[Bespin 8,483]

What's this? Blame the Butterfly?

 

Ban him!

[bollemanneke 3,349]

58 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't understand the question.  Shawn Murphy recorded the score in 1991.  His 1991 mixes are used in the film, the OST album, the old expansion, and the new expansion.

 

Maybe you can clarify what you're confused about

I mean, if those mixes were used in 2012, why couldn't things like the Never-Feast inserted be included back then? Or did Murphy never have that recording?

[Jay 37,369]

I think you misread my post.  I said Murphy saved those mixes onto 1/2" tape in 1991.  I never said he provided any elements used on either expansion.

 

Mike explained everything in the most recent podcast episode.  The 1/2" tapes of everything recorded up to when the OST album was locked were in Sony Music's possession, so that's what Didier used as the primary source of his expansion.  The 1/2" tapes of all the cues recorded in November never made it there, which is why he used the film's music stem for that music.

For the new expansion, Mike had the Sony Pictures guys dig into their archives, and they found the 1/2" tapes for those November recordings, as well as all the tapes that all the pre-Murphy stuff was recorded onto, so Murphy's 1991 mixes saved onto 1/2" tape was the primary source of the new expansion.  And the set of 1/2" tapes that went from Sony Music to Battery mastering in 2011, are now at home with their companions at Sony Pictures

[Brando 1,864]

On 21/12/2023 at 9:48 PM, Brando said:

Just found this upcoming video on YT:

 

 

Don’t forget, if you want to watch it live, it’s tonight at 8 EST. If you can’t watch it live, it should be available shortly afterwards as a regular video.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

It has been unpacked! Undamaged! I'm going to clap my hands for an hour tomorrow!

[Amer 2,110]

 

 

Unboxing video. But it's in French.

[Chewy 2,391]

4 hours ago, Amer said:

Unboxing video. But it's in French.

Oh this is a video from Didier Deutsch!

[Bespin 8,483]

 

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

Oh this is a video from Didier Deutsch!

 

So Didier Deutsch is basically saying: "I really don't grasp what fascinates you about this Mike Matessino. He concocts these box sets that, pardon my French, are quite unbearable, with each song replayed at least three times on each of the CDs (I wonder who takes pleasure listening to that!). It's truly nonsensical, if you ask me. And then, this box set must have cost a fortune to produce—have you pondered the plethora of Julia Roberts pictures plastered everywhere? Utterly distasteful and excessively drawn out, I must say!"

 

[Smaug The Iron 516]

It looks like it is Temporarily out of Stock again 

[Jay 37,369]

Yup! This is a fast selling release!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Well it seems like Mike’s done a better job of advertising this release than your average boutique label album gets. I even saw people talking about it on a movie subreddit the other day. A bunch of them were bitching about how they thought the album was already sold out.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Yeah you wonder why so many people fail to understand what TEMPORARILY means.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Just now, bollemanneke said:

Yeah you wonder why so many people fail to understand what TEMPORARILY means.

Well the listing was completely missing from La-La Land’s website when I looked a day or 2 ago.

[Thor 7,513]

I've finally acquired the set as files. As alluded to earlier, it doesn't hold much interest to me (I even think the old Epic CD is a tad too long, even if HOOK is in my list of top 10 JW scores), BUT...it has allowed me the opportunity to create a separate "Hook - The Musical" album of sorts. 29 minutes, neat and succinct, including the songs (that weren't on the OST) as well as a couple of source cues.

 

 

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Right.

[crumbs 14,317]

30 minutes ago, Thor said:

I've finally acquired the set as files. As alluded to earlier, it doesn't hold much interest to me (I even think the old Epic CD is a tad too long, even if HOOK is in my list of top 10 JW scores), BUT...it has allowed me the opportunity to create a separate "Hook - The Musical" album of sorts. 29 minutes, neat and succinct, including the songs (that weren't on the OST) as well as a couple of source cues.

 

Holy hell, you seriously have the gall to not only gloat about illegally pirating the set (which Jay, Mike and dozens of other people spent 8 YEARS working on) but turn around and not only complain that it doesn't interest you, but boast about how impressed you are with your newfound playlist of pirated materials? Are you seriously this tone deaf or is the whole contrarian schtick an intentional parody at this point?

 

Here's an idea. Instead of reminding everyone for the millionth time about how little you give a shit about these expansions, why don't you support the people working their asses off to make them a reality?

 

Better yet, say nothing at all! Especially if you're going to gloat about pirating the very thing you've spent a decade whinging about.

[Thor 7,513]

Pirating? What are you talking about? I've acquired it as promotional material. Take a chill pill already.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

Since you haven’t told us the circumstances nor the Ts&Cs under which you acquired the files for promotional purposes, let’s assume what you’re doing is perfectly legal (which your initial post, with its use of the rather vague term ‘acquired’ implied might not have been the case). I am therefore heavily medicated with chill pills.

 

Presumably, though, you don’t have any ethical issues with using the files personally, despite them being issued promotionally, as if you had bought the set like the rest of us? Does @crumbs’ argument about financially supporting the labels and people involved in these niche releases have no merit for you? I presume you’ve listened to the podcast (or read the summaries here) where Mike explains just how convoluted and difficult it sometimes is to get things like the Hook songs (which you seem to particularly value) released. Do you not think listening to these tracks for pleasure - rather than for promotional purposes - morally requires any financial outlay from you?

 

And, if a long playing time is something you like to avoid in your listening, why not just make a playlist consisting of the 90-second Prologue track? That’d be lovely and concise and save you 27.5 minutes on your other playlist.

 

Mark

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Without wanting to turn this into an OST vs expansion debate at all, what I don't understand about your logic is that you seem to think an album should be short by definition. While I agree that some albums drag, Hook is the last score I think this could be the case with. Given its limitations, I actually think it's quite a decent OST, one of his best I think.

[Thor 7,513]

31 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

Since you haven’t told us the circumstances nor the Ts&Cs under which you acquired the files for promotional purposes, let’s assume what you’re doing is perfectly legal

 

Why the suspicion? I'm a film and film music journalist by profession, I've run a film music site for more than 20 years and I'm a member of the IFMCA. We get promos all the time, whether acquired individually (like I did in this case), sent unsolicited via mail or sent to the IFMCA at large. Now that award season is upon us, I expect all, or most of the specialty releases from LLL, Intrada, Varese etc. to be available for our consideration, as they are every year (Dan Goldwasser usually handles the LLL releases).

 

31 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

Presumably, though, you don’t have any ethical issues with using the files personally, despite them being issued promotionally, as if you had bought the set like the rest of us?

 

This is one of the strangest things I've read. Of course I use the files personally. Do you think promos are about acquiring the files, listening to them and then deleting them?

 

As most expansions are worthless to me, I actually thought I made an unusually positive post earlier, in that this HOOK release actually had some value, i.e. the songs, a value I mentioned earlier in one of the HOOK threads. I said then that Disc 3 had the potential of a standalone, musical-type album, and now that I made such a playlist, I thought it would be nice to share. But apparently that was a mistake.

[scoreman36 68]

It does seem weird that you won’t just buy the bloody thing like the rest of us. 

[Thor 7,513]

I’m not in the habit of buying things I don’t need. But I’m thankful for the promo and the possibility to create that “Hook - The Musical” playlist. And the possibility to evaluate the whole thing for the awards.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

33 minutes ago, scoreman36 said:

It does seem weird that you won’t just buy the bloody thing like the rest of us. 

You should never buy things you don't like.

[crumbs 14,317]

24 minutes ago, Thor said:

But I’m thankful for the promo and the possibility to create that “Hook - The Musical” playlist.

 

Yeah, that's already available on Disc 3 of this release, curated and approved by the film's composer, lyricist and director. Not whatever your attempt at a playlist is.

 

Everyone who paid for and appreciates the hard work of the producers involved on these remasters already knows that.

[Thor 7,513]

I prefer mine. You seem sleepy and grumpy, crumbs. I suggest you take some time off from the board and enjoy the fireworks outside. If I'm not mistaken, you're only a few minutes away in Australia.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

I prefer mine.

 

Can you elaborate on this?  Have you listened to the as-is Disc 3 program all the way through, without skipping?  What specific things did you not like about the listening experience?

[Thor 7,513]

9 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

Can you elaborate on this?  Have you listened to the as-is Disc 3 program all the way through, without skipping?  What specific things did you not like about the listening experience?

 

I have, yes. The idea was to create a playlist that focussed on the songs, and something that could be its own thing, separate from the OST. Perhaps with some source music in there for variety. So the alternate versions of cues that are already on the OST were not necessary for that purpose, and were consequently deleted. I thought long and hard about including the last track, since the non-vocal version is on the OST, but I thought it worked well as an album closer with those "Hook! Hook! Give us the Hook" riffs. I think the end result was pretty OK. I could possibly flip some cues around for even better flow, but I'm not going to invest a whole bunch of time into this. It was just a fun experiment, really. 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

24 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

I have, yes. The idea was to create a playlist that focussed on the songs, and something that could be its own thing, separate from the OST. Perhaps with some source music in there for variety. So the alternate versions of cues that are already on the OST were not necessary for that purpose, and were consequently deleted. I thought long and hard about including the last track, since the non-vocal version is on the OST, but I thought it worked well as an album closer with those "Hook! Hook! Give us the Hook" riffs. I think the end result was pretty OK. I could possibly flip some cues around for even better flow, but I'm not going to invest a whole bunch of time into this. It was just a fun experiment, really. 

 

Okay, but...  I was trying to bring the discussion back to the Disc 3 program.  I know that the alternate score cues aren't necessary for a playlist that's focused only on the songs/source music.  That's self-evident.

 

What I was really trying to ask is, did you actually listen to the whole Disc 3 program, with the songs in context with the alternate score cues the way they were presented in the Disc 3 program, before making your playlist?

 

Do you feel they had a thematic flow the way Mike Matessino advertised?

[Thor 7,513]

Sure, it worked fine. A tad too long, perhaps, and a better end track would have been "Hook Exit Music". Also take out "Take Me Out to the Ballgame", which felt out-of-place. But other than that, I suppose it worked as-is.

 

It just wasn't what I needed in this particular case. If I want to experience the HOOK score, I put on the old Epic CD. This playlist is more an extra curiousity thing focussing on songs and things that are NOT on the OST. I doubt I'll be playing it much, but nice to know I have it, should I choose to "pop by" now and then.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

Sure, it worked fine. A tad too long, perhaps, and a better end track would have been "Hook Exit Music". Also take out "Take Me Out to the Ballgame", which felt out-of-place. But other than that, I suppose it worked as-is.

 

It just wasn't what I needed in this particular case. If I want to experience the HOOK score, I put on the old Epic CD. This playlist is more an extra curiousity thing focussing on songs and things that are NOT on the OST. I doubt I'll be playing it much, but nice to know I have it, should I choose to "pop by" now and then.

 

Thank you!  Exactly the kind of response I was looking for!

 

I will point out, though, that the three tracks after Hook Exit Music are all bonus tracks, only included due to the nature of this release as a complete, comprehensive expansion.  So the intended listening experience of Disc 3 really does end with Hook Exit Music.  (I was going to clarify this point in my last post, but I felt it was getting too bogged down in detail and might risk being potentially confusing, so I left it out)

 

But again, thanks.  I feel I understand your point of view much better now.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

44 minutes ago, Thor said:

I thought long and hard about including the last track, since the non-vocal version is on the OST, but I thought it worked well as an album closer with those "Hook! Hook! Give us the Hook" riffs. I think the end result was pretty OK. I could possibly flip some cues around for even better flow, but I'm not going to invest a whole bunch of time into this. It was just a fun experiment, really. 

Presenting the Hook always was my favourite track from the score. But I don't like thar vocal version as a musical piece. In the movie context it is ok of course and a nice curious addition to this set. But like this, the version with and without the pirate vocals manage to be still my favourite and the other one my least favourite track of the score presentation. 

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

Those of us whose first exposure to Hook's music was Holko's video (I.E. me) would probably be inclined to disagree.

[Thor 7,513]

39 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Presenting the Hook always was my favourite track from the score. But I don't like thar vocal version as a musical piece. In the movie context it is ok of course and a nice curious addition to this set. But like this, the version with and without the pirate vocals manage to be still my favourite and the other one my least favourite track of the score presentation. 

 

I suppose I can see that. But everytime I think of HOOK -- the film and the music in it -- that scene where they sing that and walk up the plank to the ship(?) is the quintessential moment that in many ways defines the whole film and score. So although I normally don't like to think about the film when I listen to soundtracks, in this case I made an exception. There's also something about that jaunty pirate shanty rhythm that gets augmented and pinpointed through the use of the chant that gets me every time.

[Faleel 5,356]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Why the suspicion? I'm a film and film music journalist by profession, I've run a film music site for more than 20 years and I'm a member of the IFMCA. We get promos all the time, whether acquired individually (like I did in this case), sent unsolicited via mail or sent to the IFMCA at large. Now that award season is upon us, I expect all, or most of the specialty releases from LLL, Intrada, Varese etc. to be available for our consideration, as they are every year (Dan Goldwasser usually handles the LLL releases).

 

 

This is one of the strangest things I've read. Of course I use the files personally. Do you think promos are about acquiring the files, listening to them and then deleting them?

 

 

Promo issuers from now on:

 

[Thor 7,513]

LOL! Indeed.

[Thor 7,513]

Crumbs slept through New Year's after all. Look at him sleeping so peacefully in the corners there. Hopefully, the new year will bring him more vigour.

[Faleel 5,356]

Thor be like:

 

[crumbs 14,317]

14 hours ago, Thor said:

You seem sleepy and grumpy, crumbs. I suggest you take some time off from the board and enjoy the fireworks outside.

 

9 hours ago, Thor said:

Crumbs slept through New Year's after all. Look at him sleeping so peacefully in the corners there. Hopefully, the new year will bring him more vigour.

 

@QuartalHarmony already summed up my thoughts and I had nothing to add. I certainly wasn't going to bring the mood down on New Years by responding to your cringe attempts at baiting me.

 

There's simply way too much love and hard work that went into this gorgeous album and I'd rather celebrate that, than engage with someone reminding everyone for the millionth time about their indifference towards these releases, while gorging on the fruits of their labour.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

15 hours ago, Thor said:

…everytime I think of HOOK -- the film and the music in it -- that scene where they sing that and walk up the plank to the ship(?) is the quintessential moment that in many ways defines the whole film and score. …There's also something about that jaunty pirate shanty rhythm that gets augmented and pinpointed through the use of the chant that gets me every time.

Absolutely agree with all of this! I’m personally delighted the vocal version has been released.

 

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

There's simply way too much love and hard work that went into this gorgeous album and I'd rather celebrate that, than engage with someone reminding everyone for the millionth time about their indifference towards these releases, while gorging on the fruits of their labour.

While I completely understand and sympathize with this perspective, it also seems like something of an evolution to me on Thor’s part that he’s willing to play album producer/curator in this case. Seems to me an admission that there absolutely is some value in archival releases, even if it does seem to imply that he doesn’t think as highly of MM’s album sequencing as he does JW’s.

[Arpy 4,145]

I'd say an expansion of this quality being released thirty plus years after the release of the film is no laughing matter, nor is it something to turn one's nose up at. 

When these sets are as miraculous as they are to come to fruition, against the odds of studio money and interest, it baffles me that there exists a subset, albeit tiny I'm aware, of people who will insist on backhandedly snubbing these things as inferior. 

 

I'm not in the habit of messing around on here, but for fuck's sake, after all these years I'm so tired of seeing Thor's childish arguments and stance against these releases. 

 

Listening experience is something as subjective as the type of derriere someone prefers, but with these expansions comes the cleanest, clearest sonic improvements that do directly affect listening experience. Why would I want to listen to the 1991 compilation when it sounds like a turd in comparison to later releases? 

 

I'm going to say something controversial here, but to hell with Williams' intended listening experience. Nine times out of ten, I find his editorial decisions to go against what my preferred listening experience is. How many decades are we supposed to wait to hear cues that Williams thought ought to be cut? Or cues that had portions microedited out? 

 

I'm thirty now, and scores like those for the Star Wars prequels remain for the most part incomplete and unavailable to listen to in their full form outside of the films - how many more decades am I going to wait to get a release?

 

When it happens in 2030, I'm going to find Thor on here, opining that he doesn't need them and the OSTs were more than enough...

 

Yeah, well waiting, hoping, asking, buying release after release with the promise of future expansions is more than enough for a lifetime.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I really don't see how one would consider oneself to be a John Williams fan and not be invested in hearing every second of the score to Hook.  But hey, some folks are built different, I guess.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

I'd say an expansion of this quality being released thirty plus years after the release of the film is no laughing matter, nor is it something to turn one's nose up at. 

When these sets are as miraculous as they are to come to fruition, against the odds of studio money and interest, it baffles me that there exists a subset, albeit tiny I'm aware, of people who will insist on backhandedly snubbing these things as inferior. 

 

I'm not in the habit of messing around on here, but for fuck's sake, after all these years I'm so tired of seeing Thor's childish arguments and stance against these releases. 

 

Listening experience is something as subjective as the type of derriere someone prefers, but with these expansions comes the cleanest, clearest sonic improvements that do directly affect listening experience. Why would I want to listen to the 1991 compilation when it sounds like a turd in comparison to later releases? 

 

I'm going to say something controversial here, but to hell with Williams' intended listening experience. Nine times out of ten, I find his editorial decisions to go against what my preferred listening experience is. How many decades are we supposed to wait to hear cues that Williams thought ought to be cut? Or cues that had portions microedited out? 

 

I'm thirty now, and scores like those for the Star Wars prequels remain for the most part incomplete and unavailable to listen to in their full form outside of the films - how many more decades am I going to wait to get a release?

 

When it happens in 2030, I'm going to find Thor on here, opining that he doesn't need them and the OSTs were more than enough...

 

Yeah, well waiting, hoping, asking, buying release after release with the promise of future expansions is more than enough for a lifetime.

 

While I do agree with much of this, especially with how special it is that, after decades of waiting, we finally have an expansion for Hook that fully meets our needs...  I'd cut Thor some slack if I were you.

 

I've found that a big reason Thor pushes against the C&C crowd is that the C&C crowd jumps on him every time he states his opinion regarding expansions.  If they'd just stop that, and instead do what I just did in this thread, and seek to understand his own position—which can easily be done without compromising my own, by the way—we'd all get along much better...  and maybe, just maybe, Thor would actually be more willing to be happy for the C&C crowd when an expansion comes out that fully meets their needs.

 

_{Besides, I'd much rather have a civil A&A vs. C&C debate with Thor than trudge through Bruce's anti-C&C spam.}

[Holko 9,529]

1 minute ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

I've found that a big reason Thor pushes against the C&C crowd is that the C&C crowd jumps on him every time he states his opinion regarding expansions.

Well a big reason he's getting jumped on is that he butts into C&C threads not relevant to him with "don't care" all the time.

 

3 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

civil A&A vs. C&C debate

"LisTeNiNg eXpEriEnCe" and done

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Thor is a noted film-music expert and sounds from his podcasts like a great guy.  His stance on expanded soundtracks is utterly baffling to me.  But if that oddness is even a small part of what enables him to do the great work he does researching Williams's tv scores, then it's all worthwhile as far as I'm concerned.

[crumbs 14,317]

40 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

I've found that a big reason Thor pushes against the C&C crowd is that the C&C crowd jumps on him every time he states his opinion regarding expansions.

 

But here's the thing. I can't stand most modern film scores, but I don't feel the need to go into every thread about modern film scores and remind everyone I don't like them.

 

If I did, others would be well within their rights to turn around and say, "well bugger off then, because we like them!"

 

40 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

If they'd just stop that, and instead do what I just did in this thread, and seek to understand his own position—which can easily be done without compromising my own, by the way—we'd all get along much better.

 

In theory I agree, but it's a broken record. There's dozens of threads littered with the same tired arguments and every time it goes in circles.

 

I have no issue with Thor having a different opinion on expansions vs OSTs (I could care less, it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of them). It's the way he comes into these celebratory threads only to point out his ambivalence, or imply these releases are 'valueless.' Anyone with empathy would understand these comments are hurtful to the hard-working folks who spend years making them a reality.

 

Or as the old adage goes: if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

[Thor 7,513]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Or as the old adage goes: if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

That would be a terribly boring and onesided discussion forum, don’t you think?
 

Regardless, I did actually say something positive in this case, and did point out a value with the new release. That’s rare for me when it comes to C&C releases. I’m thankful the release allowed us access to all the HOOK songs. I’ve always been curious about those.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

Regardless, I did actually say something positive in this case, and did point out a value with the new release. That’s rare for me when it comes to C&C releases. I’m thankful the release allowed us access to all the HOOK songs. I’ve always been curious about those.

 

I was actually about to bring that up in the post I was typing up, but you beat me to it.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

Regardless, I did actually say something positive in this case, and did point out a value with the new release. That’s rare for me when it comes to C&C releases. I’m thankful the release allowed us access to all the HOOK songs. I’ve always been curious about those.

 

I completely understand your apathy towards these releases from the C&C perspective and it's nice that you took a promo copy and took the time to find a listening order that works for you.

 

Where you lose me a bit is an insistence that Williams' original album is a product that can't be improved or tweaked given a fresh ear on the score or perhaps a bit of time. I have to admit I was a bit mystified that when the Jurassic anniversary set came out and presented the extra music in beautifully curated, arranged suites, that you weren't interested at all. It wasn't losing his original album architecture, more posing the question of how the album might look had Williams wanted to represent a few more ideas on the album.

 

In the case of disc 3 of this set, for those for whom Hook is a special movie and the demos and musical bits were a holy grail, Mike and co.'s efforts are a lovely way to be introduced to those materials. However, I'll defend your desire to do a bit of fiddling once you've had a listen - we can't expect every individual listener to be equally as motivated by the entire package.