Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 It's so weird, I only got to see the TLJ this week, and after reading all the backlash it received, some very ferocious and passionate polarising reception, I was prepared for an unmitigated disaster. But then I watched it... and it wasn't really that bad. Sure it wasn't a masterpiece either. It's just a space opera movie for kids afterall. I recognise its flaws and weaknesses, sure, but fans seem to have amplified those flaws and weaknesses into reasons to blast the whole film away. As if it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. I've noticed among online film goers in the last few years that their assessment of films has been simplified to binary reception - it was either a masterpiece or a terrible disaster. They give it either a 10/10 or a 0/10. There's no nuance anymore. If it didn't meet their expectations, it's a complete write-off and must be publicly lynched and shamed forever. The advent of social media perhaps plays a role in this, where any uneducated hick now has a platform to promote their views. Back in the day, it was only certified writers who had the privilege of wider media influence. How times have changed. And how is this sustainable? Hollywood could definitely stand to improve its output a great deal, but once I get around to seeing these newer films, they're not necessarily great, most are mediocre, but definitely not as stinking awful as the fanatics claim. Maybe mediocrity makes them angry? I'd love to see what a really bad movie does to them... Yavar Moradi, mstrox, Bilbo and 11 others 12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Its ridiculous sometimes. The things "fans" complain about. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 43 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: If it didn't meet their expectations, it's a complete write-off and must be publicly lynched and shamed forever. There' my secret: I barely have any expectetions from any movie except for it to entertain me in some way and keep my attention; if it's an adaptation, represent the source material I already know and love fairly; if it's a sequel, add to the characters and continue the story in an OK way. Sometimes they can't even fulfill this, like with the last 3 Potter films, or Pirates 5 (maybe even 4), but most of the time, I have fun except if it's really bad (AotC) or just not my cup of tea at all (Fifth Element). Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,337 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: Its ridiculous sometimes. The things "fans" complain about. That's because when fans see a something that doesn't correspond with their understanding or viewpoint, they get disappointed. Star Wars let me down a long time ago with ROTJ so I probably looked at TLJ with different eyes. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I think the issue is with the reception of fans, which are more obsessed about the inner workings of the universe, than with the narrative. What they don’t understand is that the universe exists only to serve the narrative, not the other way around. But, it should be said, the other side's response is at times overreaching, as well. I've seen many people claim that this film is like Empire Strikes Back in that the immediate critical response was lesser than what it gained over time, as to say that The Last Jedi is great, and only hurt by the critics' lack of perspective. It really isn't: it lacks restraint in its pacing, its narrative format and its characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtw42 61 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I do often feel out of kilter with everybody else when I come out of the cinema holding the opinion that the film I've just watched was "okay" or "quite good". There does seem to be a pressure to either ignore its faults (and every film has faults) and adore it unquestioningly, or focus only on its faults and kick it while it's down. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 As many people have already analysed, The Last Jedi has actual flaws and traits fans unjustifiedly bash it for. It's quite easy to figure out what is objectively a problem and what fans just don't like/hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It doesn't suck at all. Great movie; one of the best in the series. People are just weird and can't let go of their own shit. (I should know! I can't let go of it when it comes to Star Trek: Discovery, which is terrible and is only about half as good as the animated series. And don't get me started on Spectre, which is truly shite.) crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, dtw42 said: I do often feel out of kilter with everybody else when I come out of the cinema holding the opinion that the film I've just watched was "okay" or "quite good". There does seem to be a pressure to either ignore its faults (and every film has faults) and adore it unquestioningly, or focus only on its faults and kick it while it's down. This is about where I stand, only expressed more succinctly. 22 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said: And don't get me started on Spectre, which is truly shite.) But... is it really? SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Margo Channing said: SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry. Mine was a similar experience with An Unexpected Journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 I've now seen TLJ, and I like it. Personally, I like it a lot more than TFA. Its funny, thrilling, unexpected, and moving, with moments of visual poetry. To all the detractors... Johnson wrote it, the main actors (not to mention Kennedy, et. al.) read it, and The Mouse green-lit it. They all had ample time to make changes through production, and in post, if they needed to. Eventually, this version - the one that they were happy with, presumably - was released last December. Unfortunately, this is the only EPISODE VIII that we have, or will ever have. Everyone has a right to like it, or to not like it, but to rage against it, is childishly Quixotic. It's only a movie. Pieter Boelen, DarthDementous, The Illustrious Jerry and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,337 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, Richard said: I've now seen TLJ, and I like it. Personally, I like it a lot more than TFA. We are brothers, Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 I've said it a few times on here that the hate is completely overblown with TLJ, mainly because it wasn't the film fans expected. Fans just wanted Empire 2.0. Everyone bitched and moaned that TFA was just ANH 2.0 but they still turned out in droves. And everyone spent two years whinging that TLJ would just be ESB 2.0, and now they've all cracked the shits that it wasn't. One need only look at Rian Johnson's twitter feed, which is littered with vindictive insults and threats, to see the depth of caliber in the Star Wars "fan" base. The ultimate irony is that had Fisher not died, the reaction to the film would've been completely different, because IX would've ended up the film that story group always intended: a mother saving her son from the Dark Side, just as ROTJ had a son saving his father. I'm as saddened as anyone else that their intention will never be realised, but I commend Johnson for having the guts to throw a spanner in the works with TLJ. I've come to realise that people are ultimately hypocrites. They whinge and moan that something is too derivative of what's come before, but they're the first to complain when someone delivers exactly what they were asking for. Pathetic. On a wider discussion though, this thread raises an interesting point about the decline of reason and conversation. I've noticed the exact same thing across politics and other "controversial" issues, where a line is being drawn in the sand and you're expected to be on one side or the other. There's no middle-ground or reason anymore. To quote another poster, who really said it best: 1 hour ago, Richard said: It's only a movie. dtw42, Pieter Boelen, Fancyarcher and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: We are brothers, Richard. We are the shame, Highlander. We are brotheeeeerrrrsh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 What really mystifies me is all of the people claiming TLJ is somehow much worse than the prequels. That's when I realized how irrational people were being about this movie. Yavar mstrox, Pieter Boelen, Ricard and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I think Dan Murrell, from ScreenJunkies, said it best in this thread of tweets in response to the backlash of TLJ: Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Its a terribly flawed film featuring one of the worst performances by a lead role. Its poorly directed yet the director exceeded his abilities. The script problems are glaring. Yet the 2nd half is unbelievably entertaining and dark. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fancyarcher 350 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 The reactions are overblown to be expected, and all of the fanboy whining really annoyed me. Personally I loved it. I thought it was the best Star Wars film in decades. Yavar Moradi, Holko and Ricard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: (...) Its poorly directed yet the director exceeded his abilities. (...) And don't start to count all the bad match cuts... you'll pass the rest of your life doing it ! I never saw as many in a recent movie. One of my favourite is the self-moving bag pack, when Finn tries to escape at the beginning of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I think it is perfectly justifiable to hold certain sagas to higher standards than typical movies TLJ, if compared to the Marvel movies, Transformers, etc, is just fine. But if it is held to the something approaching the quality of the original trilogy, it falls flat (and seems to miss the point of that saga, but that would be a digression). It is the same with KOTCS, for an Indiana Jones movie, it sucks; for a typical action-adventure movie of the last 10 years, it is fine. dtw42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,017 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things. Karol Yavar Moradi, Hurmm and bollemanneke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I for one enjoyed it. Personally I'm sick of people bitching to me how "terrible" the movie is and that made them stop buying Star Wars merchandise and what not. Even as far as saying it "ruined their childhood". I mean seriously over one movie? I got to the point that I warned people on Facebook if they bitch and rant how bad the movie is to me or on posts then I'll unfriend them. It was the only warning I will give. I'm just done with all the negative bullshit around this movie. Holko and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Truth be told, I'm getting burned out on hyping up a movie years before it comes out, in that the internet has to keep up with every single facet of production until release date. Months ahead is sane enough for Solo's score or Fallen Kingdom, but...why do we need to discuss Jurassic World 3 or Star Wars Episode IX or Avengers 17 years before they approach? Who knows what we'll be doing in three years! JWfan may not even be around by then! In this case, it often leads to disappointment with a movie being bloated and intensified. Obviously, that doesn't apply to every person that disliked Last Jedi...I don't know, I'm just feeling fatigued as Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest is kicking my ass and I'm tired of every single level taking hours to figure out. jwalk713 and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 30 minutes ago, Trent B said: I for one enjoyed it. Personally I'm sick of people bitching to me how "terrible" the movie is and that made them stop buying Star Wars merchandise and what not. Even as far as saying it "ruined their childhood". I mean seriously over one movie? I got to the point that I warned people on Facebook if they bitch and rant how bad the movie is to me or on posts then I'll unfriend them. It was the only warning I will give. I'm just done with all the negative bullshit around this movie. 43 minutes ago, crocodile said: The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things. Karol Out of curiosity, did the two of you enjoy KOTCS? I see an exact parallel between TLJ and the original saga and KOTCS and the IJ trilogy. Except, of course, I doubt anyone is unfriending anyone over KOTCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I just found it to be boring with a few poorly written character arcs and several new characters that were useless. The story wasn’t very compelling at all. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tom said: Out of curiosity, did the two of you enjoy KOTCS? I see an exact parallel between TLJ and the original saga and KOTCS and the IJ trilogy. Except, of course, I doubt anyone is unfriending anyone over KOTCS. Personally I find TLJ vastly better than KotCS. They're not even in the same ballpark. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said: Personally I find TLJ vastly better than KotCS. Congratulations, Rian Johnson! your film has officially cleared the lowest bar ever! Pieter Boelen and JoeinAR 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 KotCS is better than Jurassic Park III. An even lower bar has been surpassed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, crocodile said: The OT isn't THAT good. People need to learn that enjoying something and that very thing being any good are two different things. Karol Star Wars and TESB are both exceptional films 3 hours ago, Tom said: I think it is perfectly justifiable to hold certain sagas to higher standards than typical movies TLJ, if compared to the Marvel movies, Transformers, etc, is just fine. But if it is held to the something approaching the quality of the original trilogy, it falls flat (and seems to miss the point of that saga, but that would be a digression). It is the same with KOTCS, for an Indiana Jones movie, it sucks; for a typical action-adventure movie of the last 10 years, it is fine. You present a very flawed argument. Ridiculous in fact by lumping Marvel and Transformer films-together. They are in no way alike other than most limely those are not films you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: Star Wars and TESB are both exceptional films Empire Strikes Back is. Star Wars is a bit too trapped in its time (case in point: the 70s wierdness that is the cantina) and its core demographic: look at the way dramatic beats such as Ben's death are watered down by the way in which they are nestled into the action material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 Sorry man you are clueless if you dont understand how great a film Star Wars is. Do you even realise what a game changer it was? Holko, Jurassic Shark, John and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chen G. said: the 70s wierdness that is the cantina In no way is that emblematic of the seventies. Star Wars is a GREAT film, an all-timer. JoeinAR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I realize it, I just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 10 hours ago, Margo Channing said: But... is it really? SPECTRE is one I saw more in the tailend of its theatrical run, knowing that fan reaction was lukewarm at best, but it ended up being nothing like what the detractors claimed. Not great, but a watchable and entertaining entry. Nah, of course it's not shite. Too many things about it work. But my personal feeling for it is that it's shite, and I feel the need to attack it from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 33 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: Sorry man you are clueless if you dont understand how great a film Star Wars is. Do you even realise what a game changer it was? That has nothing to do with it being good or bad. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,718 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 hours ago, Margo Channing said: It's so weird, I only got to see the TLJ this week, and after reading all the backlash it received, some very ferocious and passionate polarising reception, I was prepared for an unmitigated disaster. But then I watched it... and it wasn't really that bad. Sure it wasn't a masterpiece either. It's just a space opera movie for kids afterall. I recognise its flaws and weaknesses, sure, but fans seem to have amplified those flaws and weaknesses into reasons to blast the whole film away. As if it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. If you only saw it this week, you have little invested in Star Wars. And from what I've seen, the more people love Star Was in general the less they like TLJ. Casual viewers really don't care about the characters and could enjoy TLJ on its own merits as a simple space fantasy. 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Star Wars is a bit too trapped in its time (case in point: the 70s wierdness that is the cantina) and its core demographic: look at the way dramatic beats such as Ben's death are watered down by the way in which they are nestled into the action material. You're back to your shite opinions. And you were doing so well for a while. Let's not take a step back Chen G. You don't want people to confuse you with @Jurassic Shark Stars Wars, like a Changeling, is timeless. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Your mileage may vary of course, but I tend to find something being 'dated' to be an endearment. The Chinese cook in King Kong, for example, is a charming likable fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, crocodile said: That has nothing to do with it being good or bad. Karol Rarely does a poor film become a game changer. But Star Wars is unversally considered a fine film. Sure some here dont but there is-no accounting for good taste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Attack of the Clones was a game changer too. And so what? Karol bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, crocodile said: Attack of the Clones was a game changer too. And so what? Karol In no way was it a game changer. Bryant Burnette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,718 Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, crocodile said: Attack of the Clones was a game changer too. And so what? Karol Attack of the Clones is a channel changer. Pieter Boelen, Chen G., Fancyarcher and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 The Video Dead was a game changer in terms of the kind of movies I seek out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: Do you even realise what a game changer it was? I think one can appreciate a film's impact on the industry, while still disliking the film itself. That's not to say that I dislike Star Wars. But I can't get into that film the way I can Empire Strikes Back. You need to keep in mind that Star Wars isn't a big deal around here. I never saw these until I was an adult. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Star Wars was a game changer in that I'd rather change and play video games instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: In no way was it a game changer. It was the first feature film shot digitally. In cinema history this is huge. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,718 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, crocodile said: It was the first feature film shot digitally. Karol Hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: Hmmmmmm. One of the very first ones anyway (it will be definitely the first major US big budget production). And the digital projection started getting huge around that time. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, Nick1066 said: And from [what] I've seen, the more people love Star Was in general the less they like TLJ. I don't know what you've seen then. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, crocodile said: One of the very first ones anyway Its not the first, but certainly the biggest film at the time to have done so. Very important milestone, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: If you only saw it this week, you have little invested in Star Wars. And from what I've seen, the more people love Star Was in general the less they like TLJ. Casual viewers really don't care about the characters and could enjoy TLJ on its own merits as a simple space fantasy. I like Star Wars enough to read most of the recent tie in books too. I also quite like The Last Jedi. I also never really invested much effort in various theories. The only one I cared about was Rey's parents, which thankfully played out exactly as I thought it should. Bryant Burnette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now