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The Official Intrada Thread


Trent B

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If I read the clues correctly:

Two previously released albums for ONE film by TWO composers.

That sounds like JOURNEY OF NATTY GANN.

A reissue of the previous program plus a c & c presentation.

Plus a reissue of Elmer Bernstein score?

 

I never guess these things right but this seems to fit the ( confusing)clue

)

30 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

King Kong


Discs 1 & 2 = The complete James Newton Howard score

Disc 3 = The rejected Howard Shore score

The clue implies both scores were previously released.

I think?

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From what I remember of the bootleg (which I don't have access to now) I don't think JNH's complete King Kong score plus alternates would fit in just 2 discs. But I may be wrong.

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Kong seems a bit unlikely to me only because the complete score is so long that to fit on two CDs you'd have to lose lots of alternates.

 

Also, it came out in December 2005, so after the AFM cutoff.

 

Reissue of Horner's Troy with Yared's rejected score? Again, seems unlikely due to the miracle it would take for Yared's score to come out.

 

10 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

From what I remember of the bootleg (which I don't have access to now) I don't think JNH's complete King Kong score plus alternates would fit in just 2 discs. But I may be wrong.

 

Yeah, the whole shebang is a little over 3 1/2 hours :P 

 

It would take a Sleepy Hollow style release to do that one properly. I'm mostly happy with the OST though - I only added two cues from the boot.

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1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

If I read the clues correctly:

Two previously released albums for ONE film by TWO composers.

That sounds like JOURNEY OF NATTY GANN.

A reissue of the previous program plus a c & c presentation.

Plus a reissue of Elmer Bernstein score?

 

I never guess these things right but this seems to fit the ( confusing)clue

)

The clue implies both scores were previously released.

I think?

 

No, I think it can also mean Intrada is putting out two NEW separate albums of music for the same film, soon. Roger didn't say anything about whether either composer's work was previously released.

 

But I still think Journey of Natty Gann is a good guess!

It could also be another rejected Bernstein score though, which hasn't yet been released: How about Rat Race, paired with an expansion of the John Powell score?

 

Or how about A River Runs Through It, paired with an expansion of the Mark Isham score? All that's "out there" of the Bernstein score on this is his main theme, performed live at USC years back (I was there in person), conducted by his son Peter:

 

 

I'd certainly be in for either... and I think there are more totally unreleased rejected Bernstein scores besides those two!

 

Yavar

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12 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

How about Rat Race, paired with an expansion of the John Powell score?

 

Can't be that, Roger said '1 film"

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Can't be that, Roger said '1 film"

 

This is 1 film. I'm talking about Bernstein's original rejected score for Rat Race (2001), not his 60s film score *The* Rat Race (released by Kritzerland).

 

Yavar

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What if one's a film score, the other's some classical or concert like that LLL female composers one?

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Bernstein scored the 1960 Rat Race, Powell scored the 2001 Rat Race

 

Bernstein scored BOTH unrelated (aside from the title; these were not remakes) films, just like Jerry Goldsmith scored the 1975 BABE *and* the 1995 BABE (well, 85% of the latter anyway).

 

If you don't believe me for some reason, here's agent Richard Kraft on the subject:

Quote

When Jerry Goldsmith was unable to score Jerry Zucker’s RAT RACE I gave Elmer an enthusiastic, unofficial recommendation. One day at baggage claim in LAX I bumped into Elmer’s daughter, Emilie, who was working as her father’s orchestrator. She had just flown back from London where the plug had been pulled on Elmer’s RAT RACE score. I offered a feeble joke about how he had already scored THE RAT RACE 40 years ago. We smiled, but deep down I felt awful that there are no “Get Out of Jail Free” cards for film composers, no matter how much they’ve accomplished. Every score is another testing ground and rejection is always a lurking possibility.


https://perspectiveforum.net/2016/05/22/my-savior-elmer-bernstein/

 

Yavar

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Oh, you're saying he wrote a score for the 2001 that was rejected!  That wasn't clear from your post.  Now I get it

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By the way, for anyone who doesn't already know about it, this is fascinating reading for anyone interested in the world of rejected scores: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Torn_Music.html?id=vkZftwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Reissue of Horner's Troy with Yared's rejected score? Again, seems unlikely due to the miracle it would take for Yared's score to come out.

 

That's my favourite idea yet (and I don't care for the Horner).

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Scenario 1: a two-composer collaboration on a film, expanded score + original release album (two albums) making up 3 discs

 

Scenario 2 (to me the most likely one): expanded/restored score presentation from one composer + rejected/unused score from the other one (two albums) making up 3 discs

 

Scenario 3 (a very unlikely one): a score album from one composer with a song album from the other making up 3 discs 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Oh, you're saying he wrote a score for the 2001 that was rejected!  That wasn't clear from your post.  Now I get it

 

19 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

This is 1 film. I'm talking about Bernstein's original rejected score for Rat Race (2001), not his 60s film score *The* Rat Race (released by Kritzerland).

 

What wasn't clear?

 

Yavar

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That wasn't in your post when I wrote mine, you edited it in after

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Just now, Jaaaackified said:

Scenario 2 (to me the most likely one): expanded/restored score presentation from one composer + rejected/unused score from the other one (two albums) making up 3 discs

 

Let's not rule out a variation of this, let's call it "Scenario 2a", for when different scores were written for different territories (neither really "rejected"). Everyone knows about the two Legends by Goldsmith and Tangerine Dream, but there's also the Goldsmith/John Scott scores for SPYS (obviously unlikely since LLL recently premiered the complete Goldsmith just last year, and it's still in print), plus Conti/Serra on The Big Blue or Conti/Scott on A Prayer for the Dying... go to the Golden Age and there are LOTS of examples of Italian films scored by Italian composers in Italy, but given scores by other composers outside of Italy.


Yavar

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

That wasn't in your post when I wrote mine, you edited it in after

 

I guess you must not have hit "refresh", because I literally added the second sentence for clarity immediately after I hit "post".

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Rick said:

Has JW ever had a score rejected and if so which one(s)?  

 

not that we know of, there could be some sort of rejection dated back to 1950s~1960s but I doubt anybody would actually dig up those stuff

 

To JW I think it is the other way around: he most certainly did reject scoring for some films

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22 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Let's not rule out a variation of this, let's call it "Scenario 2a", for when different scores were written for different territories (neither really "rejected").

 

If you read Torn Music, in some cases it's been one of several variations - a rescore due to a film becoming higher profile (JNH's Charlie Wilson's War), two composers writing material and the final film being a hodge-podge of both (too many examples for me to remember), and even at least one case where a score was rejected, then the replacement was rejected and the first one put back in!

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I guess most expanded score + rejected score combination would fit into a 2-CD album comfortably. A 3-disc one would mean that either there is actually quite a lot of music (but not too much music like JNH's King Kong, which IIRC goes to more than 3 hours in total), or there is some additional material compiled (demos, sketches, suites, concert arrangements or even live concert recordings?)

and if this release is going to feature a rejected score, that specific rejected version has to be recorded, right? I think this can at least rule out some projects. 

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2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

If you read Torn Music, in some cases it's been one of several variations - a rescore due to a film becoming higher profile (JNH's Charlie Wilson's War), two composers writing material and the final film being a hodge-podge of both (too many examples for me to remember), and even at least one case where a score was rejected, then the replacement was rejected and the first one put back in!

 

Yes indeed. LIFEFORCE would be a "hodge-podge of both" example....and also SLIVER which LLL put out not that long ago (including both the complete Howard Shore score plus the additional music by Christopher Young:

https://lalalandrecords.com/sliver-limited-edition/

 

Yavar

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2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

If you read Torn Music, in some cases it's been one of several variations - a rescore due to a film becoming higher profile (JNH's Charlie Wilson's War), two composers writing material and the final film being a hodge-podge of both (too many examples for me to remember), and even at least one case where a score was rejected, then the replacement was rejected and the first one put back in!

 

This is the fascinating (and the chaotic) side of filmmaking: change/replacement of composer or rejection of score actually happens way more than we realize

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Another idea: Les Miserables (Yared/Poledouris)

 

I would also suggest 13th Warrior, but that's Varese territory. (although I guess it's possible that the new team are more cooperative with other labels than Townson was)

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2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Yes indeed. LIFEFORCE would be a "hodge-podge of both" example....and also SLIVER which LLL put out not that long ago (including both the complete Howard Shore score plus the additional music by Christopher Young:

https://lalalandrecords.com/sliver-limited-edition/

 

Yavar

 

Horner seemed to be attached to LIFEFORCE (actually the initial choice of composer?) but was eventually replaced by Mancini. I don't know if there was any music written or recorded. 

And I believe Kamen was involved because US version of the film altered (or ditched?) much of Mancini's music and left gaps to be filled with additional composition. 

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14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Another idea: Les Miserables (Yared/Poledouris)

 

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I'm thinking LES MISERABLES, my favorite Basil Poledouris score, spread over 2CDs (maybe the original four-suite album included on disc 2)? And then the 1CD would be for the rejected Gabriel Yared score for the same film!

 

 

11 minutes ago, Jaaaackified said:

I guess most expanded score + rejected score combination would fit into a 2-CD album comfortably. A 3-disc one would mean that either there is actually quite a lot of music (but not too much music like JNH's King Kong, which IIRC goes to more than 3 hours in total), or there is some additional material compiled (demos, sketches, suites, concert arrangements or even live concert recordings?)

 

Or simply a second disc featuring the original album program.

 

11 minutes ago, Jaaaackified said:

and if this release is going to feature a rejected score, that specific rejected version has to be recorded, right? I think this can at least rule out some projects. 

 

So far I don't think anyone has suggested a score that was rejected before being recorded (i.e. Goldsmith's rejected scores for Babe or Disney's The Kid).

 

Yavar

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Another idea: Les Miserables (Yared/Poledouris)

 

 

I didn't know Yared was rejected!😳

I have the excellent BP CD, but would love to hear what GY came up with!

2 hours ago, OneBuckFilms said:

Peraps a reissue of Horner's TROY on 2 CDs, then 1 CD with Gabriel Yared's famously rejected score?

Didn't Intrada already release TROY?

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Yes, they did issue Troy, a 2 CD set with 1 piece from the OST missing (apparently some kind of legal issue since it was based on someone else's music or something).

 

They could tweak that setup to restore he one missing cue.

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1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

That's my favourite idea yet (and I don't care for the Horner).

 

Yared's compilation album from Silva Screen does contain a Troy suite performed by Brussels Philharmonic, don't know if that means anything. 

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2 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

 

Yared's compilation album from Silva Screen does contain a Troy suite performed by Brussels Philharmonic, don't know if that means anything. 

Gosh can you imagine that actually getting an officially release? My Highschool film nerd self from 2004 would pass out from happiness. Potentially there could be more material than the 70 min “promo”? Although I’m sure it would have to be a 4 CD set then to include Horners stuff too.

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3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

By the way, for anyone who doesn't already know about it, this is fascinating reading for anyone interested in the world of rejected scores: https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Torn_Music.html?id=vkZftwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

This actually sounds interesting, I’ll have to check it out.

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Mancini told a friend of mine when they met up in an elevator that he enjoyed working on LIFEFORCE. "They just don't give me projects like these.I can do them too!"

 

Lol.Talk about being typecast!

 

 

 

6 hours ago, OneBuckFilms said:

Peraps a reissue of Horner's TROY on 2 CDs, then 1 CD with Gabriel Yared's famously rejected score?

I had asked Roger on FSM board if TROY itself could be reissued  as a 2CD set. Unfortunately no chance at all. 

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2 hours ago, Amer said:

Lol.Talk about being typecast!

 

Yeah, I listened to The Pink Panther a week or two ago (to see if it was "funny") and it was so Mancini. It just dripped Mancininess.

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6 hours ago, WampaRat said:

Gosh can you imagine that actually getting an officially release? My Highschool film nerd self from 2004 would pass out from happiness. Potentially there could be more material than the 70 min “promo”? Although I’m sure it would have to be a 4 CD set then to include Horners stuff too.

That promo is pretty good.

Don't really think there is any good stuff left off it

 

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6 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

That promo is pretty good.

Don't really think there is any good stuff left off it

 

It is a really good presentation. But I’d be curious if there’s more music that couldn’t fit on the promo that was written.
(The night battle on the beach with the fire ball things and the scene where Hector fights Patroclus would be cool to hear - assuming Yared scored them)

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Why did Elmer Bernstein have so many rejected scores in the last 20 years of his career?  He wasn't getting the respect he deserved in the latter part of his career it seems to me.

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