Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 We're talking about expanded releases, not OST albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: You could argue that the segue from the folksy celebration music to the end credits in both of Return of the Jedi (particularly the original) and Willow (possibly even the throne room in Star Wars... are we meant to hear it as though it's diegetic or not?! Kinda hard to tell) mixes between source and score, but it would clearly be weird to have them as separate tracks. Slightly OT but makes you wonder how Mike would handle all the different ending cues for ROTJ on an expansion. Aren't there 3 mixes of Ewok Celebration (the true film version unreleased) and 2 mixes of Victory Celebration (film mix unreleased)? Then there's all the different versions of music in Jabba's Palace... what a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 This conversation about cues combining score and source on expanded or original albums seems deeply and profoundly inconsequential. TSMefford, Holko, mstrox and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 The ending of ROTJ is actually 2 cues, the "Yub Nub" part (13M5), and the orchestral part that comes in near the end of that (13M5A). Each of these were recorded completely separately from each other There's 2 versions of Yub Nub, the film version and the album version. There's only 1 version of the orchestral ending. For Victory Celebration, I assume the version released on CD is Williams's preference, I don't know if what you hear in the film is a completely separate recording, the same recording but mixed differently, or what DrTenma and Manakin Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 26 minutes ago, Jay said: For Victory Celebration, I assume the version released on CD is Williams's preference, I don't know if what you hear in the film is a completely separate recording, the same recording but mixed differently, or what I assume it's just a different mix though I've never scientifically compared the two. There's definitely album-only effects on the SE (all the jungle sounds, bird chirping and whistles, which clearly aren't in the film version). And thanks for clarifying Ewok Celebration, just went back and compared the two versions on the Anthology set. Didn't realise it was two separate cues but the gradual crossfade to the human choir (at the end of the album version) is obvious now you've pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Edmilson said: I must be the only person on Earth that likes TPM UE. At the very least, it contains more (amazing) music than the OST. And UEs for AOTC and ROTS would've been good placeholders until we get the official expanded scores. I also think that TPM UE is not totally awful (being totally the important word, I'd always prefer composer edits than film versions), but very disappointing as a commercial album. When I bought it in ¿2000? I was expecting something as the RCA edition for the OT but sadly it wasn't. BTW what still bothers me a lot in the UE is that Augie's Band and the End Credits are not the film version... I'm sure this has been debated along the forums butI still think is very weird to get film version edits of everything but the ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 41 minutes ago, DrTenma said: I also think that TPM UE is not totally awful (being totally the important word, I'd always prefer composer edits than film versions), but very disappointing as a commercial album. When I bought it in ¿2000? I was expecting something as the RCA edition for the OT but sadly it wasn't. BTW what still bothers me a lot in the UE is that Augie's Band and the End Credits are not the film version... I'm sure this has been debated along the forums butI still think is very weird to get film version edits of everything but the ending. The thing is the album isn't even a true isolated score; it's basically just an estimation of one. If you attempt to match the UE to the film, it constantly desyncs. Plus there is even a small amount of music that is not in the film that is on the UE for some reason (e.g. the ending of "Sebulba's Dirty Hand", which is not present in the film). The whole thing is a huge mess. The silver lining is that it gave us more music from TPM, which is good. Yavar Moradi and DrTenma 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I'm guessing to make the UE, they just opened up the Pro Tools session and dumped it, but accidentally opened an early version that was synced to not-quite-the-final-cut of the film, and not the very last session DrTenma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 And then swapped out Augie's Band entirely, as I'd imagine there was no cut that matched the album version of that cue... DrTenma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Well, or maybe the album version DID match the cut of the film the rest of the pro tools version synced to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 I just noticed Powell edited the announcement message on his Facebook page It used to say: "Coming soon to digital exclusive streaming" Now it says: "Coming soon in 2020 to digital exclusive streaming and digital purchase" Tom Guernsey, crumbs, Holko and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,286 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay said: I just noticed Powell edited the announcement message on his Facebook page It used to say: "Coming soon to digital exclusive streaming" Now it says: "Coming soon in 2020 to digital exclusive streaming and digital purchase" Phew! I'm all down for digital (lossless!) purchase but streaming only would be a different matter. I don't want to rent it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 we've known it would be available for purchase since shortly after the announcement first went up On 9/22/2020 at 12:23 PM, mstrox said: I just hadn't noticed he actually re-edited the announcement until now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,286 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: The ending of ROTJ is actually 2 cues, the "Yub Nub" part (13M5), and the orchestral part that comes in near the end of that (13M5A). Each of these were recorded completely separately from each other There's 2 versions of Yub Nub, the film version and the album version. There's only 1 version of the orchestral ending. For Victory Celebration, I assume the version released on CD is Williams's preference, I don't know if what you hear in the film is a completely separate recording, the same recording but mixed differently, or what Interesting re ROTJ finale, although I assumed they were recorded separately given they are quite disparate in style and it seemed unlikely that they would risk messing up the LSO sessions with some quasi improvised ethnic percussion and Ewok singing. Also interesting that the album version has more sound effects than the actual movie. Kinda reminds me of the strange situation where the Snowman soundtrack has narration but the film doesn't. But I digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Yea I assume Joseph Williams handled Yub Nub, and the orchestral ending was recorded with the LSO at the same session as all the other film cues Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,286 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay said: we've known it would be available for purchase since shortly after the announcement first went up I just hadn't noticed he actulaly re-edited the announcement until now I was nervous by the "should be" part of that announcement if I'm honest so glad there's considerably more certainty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Ah, gotcha! Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I wonder if this new release will solve one of the biggest misteries regarding this score: who was the true author of Corellia Chase, if it's John Powell himself or Batu Sener. Or maybe Powell wrote the cue and Sener arranged it, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: The thing is the album isn't even a true isolated score; it's basically just an estimation of one. If you attempt to match the UE to the film, it constantly desyncs. Plus there is even a small amount of music that is not in the film that is on the UE for some reason (e.g. the ending of "Sebulba's Dirty Hand", which is not present in the film). The whole thing is a huge mess. The silver lining is that it gave us more music from TPM, which is good. Yeah, for example "Arrival at Tatooine" is closer to the album version IIRC. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: I wonder if this new release will solve one of the biggest misteries regarding this score: who was the true author of Corellia Chase, if it's John Powell himself or Batu Sener. Or maybe Powell wrote the cue and Sener arranged it, I dunno. JP's style is all over it, so at the very least he was the lead composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I agree. The cue is too much Powell for it to be a Batu Sener creation. However, the cue apparently was posted in Batu's website, and in a list of cues he appears as composer of that one, so I dunno in what to believe anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony 572 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I'm curious how many cues Williams wrote as "ideas" that ended up being arranged and re-recorded for the final film. Parts of "Flying With Chewie" and the entire "farewell" piece that wasn't on the OST sound like they are pure Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Where does Powell end and Batu begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 There might be a digital booklet that lists the individual composers for each cue within each track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I doubt it. When it comes to "additional composers" credits in modern Hollywood, it tends to be a black box. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Disco Stu said: I doubt it. When it comes to "additional composers" credits in modern Hollywood, it tends to be a black box. There was the thing I pointed out months ago about how newer releases are starting to list the additional composers in the "track info" section on Spotify and the like, but it doesn't seem to have happened with Powell yet. Guess that's something we'll have to ask the man himself in regards to the DE. If it is on Batu's website, then there is a high likelihood that he did work on the cue. We'll just have to see if Hybrid finds anything on ASCAP or BMI when the new release comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I just finished watching the film, which was perfectly decent. The score worked really well, and I noticed a few unreleased bits, although it doesn't feel like a score with masses of unreleased music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Most of the "noticeable" score is on the OST - all the big action cue and exciting moments. Most of what isn't on the OST is the quieter stuff you might not notice on first watch when you're trying to just take in the movie itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I did actually notice quite a lot of quieter material - I often focus more on the music in dialogue scenes in films like this. The bit I'm surprised isn't released is the rendition of Han's theme following the fight with Paul Bettany, when they're bringing the coaxium to that other woman. Molly Weasley and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTallJodie 59 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Dang, I'm always late, but this is really exciting news! Totally dig this score. It's got... I dunno what to call it... zest? It's just punchy and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Dark Horizons posted a short article about the expanded soundtrack and I noticed this interesting exchange in the comments section: Firstly, interesting how much interest/knowledge/demand there seems to be among general movie fans for Star Wars score expansions (and the flaws of previous releases). Secondly, maybe we need a separate discussion for LA union fees because there's a lot of conflicting information. We've now heard they don't apply to streaming releases, to quantities under 15,000 and, according to the comment above, they no longer apply if every musician is credited on the album (which was apparently changed a few years ago). Maybe their comment is poorly worded and that was the condition pre-2005? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 My only fear is that this Solo release if it proves popular enough will set a precedent to Disney to do the same with Williams' other scores and just skip the labels altogether and release straight to digital. No hassle with boutique labels like LLL, just straight up dump it digitally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Secondly, maybe we need a separate discussion for LA union fees because there's a lot of conflicting information. We've now heard they don't apply to streaming releases, to quantities under 15,000 and, according to the comment above, they no longer apply if every musician is credited on the album (which was apparently changed a few years ago). Maybe their comment is poorly worded and that was the condition pre-2005? There’s a whole mess of AFM documents related to film and TV recordings here, which is really only relevant to L.A. and New York in practice, because what few scores are recorded in the U.S. outside those two locations are almost always non-union (e.g. Nashville): https://www.afm.org/our-musicians/recording-digital-media/ I haven’t been able to make sense of it, but there might be enough here to figure out what conditions would apply to the re-releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,359 Posted September 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2020 Just now, crumbs said: Maybe their comment is poorly worded and that was the condition pre-2005? I believe this was stated to be the case in this very thread. 18 minutes ago, Arpy said: My only fear is that this Solo release if it proves popular enough will set a precedent to Disney to do the same with Williams' other scores and just skip the labels altogether and release straight to digital. No hassle with boutique labels like LLL, just straight up dump it digitally. Honestly.... As long as it was handled properly in terms of preparation and formats, I wouldn't really care. 1977, Tydirium, A. A. Ron and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,318 Posted September 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2020 44 minutes ago, Arpy said: My only fear is that this Solo release if it proves popular enough will set a precedent to Disney to do the same with Williams' other scores and just skip the labels altogether and release straight to digital. No hassle with boutique labels like LLL, just straight up dump it digitally. They have no reason to work with the boutique labels; Walt Disney Records would handle any physical release. No disrespect to Powell or Giacchino but JW's 9 scores are in a different category to the spinoff scores (due to the 'prestige' of the main series). That makes a physical release slightly more likely, but if that earlier post about reuse fees not applying on digital/streaming releases is true... it's a huge factor. Reuse fees on the 3 sequels (if comprehensively expanded) would be extremely expensive, even for Disney's deep pockets. They might balk at the fees and only allow physical releases for the LSO scores. 25 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: I haven’t been able to make sense of it, but there might be enough here to figure out what conditions would apply to the re-releases. I've been reading through these today as well, trying to make sense of the terms. I did find the reference to waiving fees for scores pre-August 2005. Seems the Memorandum of Understanding 2015 builds upon the terms in the previous ones (2010 and 2005) and those have explicit references to fees not applying until 15,000 units are sold (and even then it's 50% of the original recording fee, not 100% as Mike's post mentioned). 24 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said: As long as it was handled properly in terms of preparation and formats, I wouldn't really care. Yeah, so long as all 9 scores were assembled and mastered by Mike, I wouldn't really mind. Hopefully there's a digital booklet equivalent of liner notes. A physical box set would obviously be fantastic to hold in my hands... and this series is worthy of such treatment. But the reality is that digital releases are vastly higher in resolution than CDs. And removing the limitation of that ~80 minute runtime per CD could actually be a blessing in disguise; just imagine if Disney only allow 2 CDs per score and Mike has to shave off hours of music from the sequels (and ROTJ). Manakin Skywalker, Tiburon, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, crumbs said: Yeah, so long as all 9 scores were assembled and mastered by Mike, I wouldn't really mind, hopefully with a digital booklet equivalent of liner notes. And even then, we have all of these great podcasts, and JWfan/fan site interviews/breakdown threads anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted September 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, Arpy said: My only fear is that this Solo release if it proves popular enough will set a precedent to Disney to do the same with Williams' other scores and just skip the labels altogether and release straight to digital. No hassle with boutique labels like LLL, just straight up dump it digitally. At this point I just want the music. 10 years ago I would have wanted prequel expansions either on their own physical sets or maybe bundled in a boxset. But after waiting so long, I don't really need a physical set, so long as I have the music. Either way the quality is the same (or better if it's released in hi-res), it saves both time and money for us as well as WDR (thus further incentivizing an expanded release), and without a disc runtime limit we could potentially see more music that might not be present on a set, especially if they decide to cheap out and limit each set to two discs. At this point a digital-only release could be more beneficial than a limited edition set, also considering the immense amount of fans that will be wanting to buy this. Physical sets are great for us collectors, but are becoming more of a hassle as the years go on. Where digital releases were once considering a bad thing, they are now beneficial to both record labels and us as consumers. Plus there's the fact that WDR will certainly not be working with specialty labels for Star Wars expansions anyway, so obviously LLL or Intrada or any other specialty label wouldn't be involved either way. Muad'Dib, 1977 and DrTenma 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Just happened to come across this relevant quote from MV of LLL Records Quote The studios don't grant download rights to us. I wish they did but they don't. Even if they did, for the afm scores it could lead to incredibly high union rates should a title sell more than 5k units https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=3&threadID=134366&archive=0 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 So maybe there is a scale of fees depending on the quantity involved? Perhaps it's 0% for digital releases up to 5,000 units though. There's obviously financial hurdles otherwise the labels would've expanded far more post-2005 LA scores by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 8 hours ago, HunterTech said: There was the thing I pointed out months ago about how newer releases are starting to list the additional composers in the "track info" section on Spotify and the like, but it doesn't seem to have happened with Powell yet. Guess that's something we'll have to ask the man himself in regards to the DE. If it is on Batu's website, then there is a high likelihood that he did work on the cue. We'll just have to see if Hybrid finds anything on ASCAP or BMI when the new release comes out. I am about to go out for a run and pulled up the Solo OST on Plex for listening. I don’t know what database it pulls from, but Plex lists additional composers... Ignore the “now playing,” that was one of my kid’s good night songs, but let the record show that Annie is full of bangers. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Just got back and I’m in the middle of the Kessel heist. Damn, forgot how good this score was. Without having rewatched the movie at this point (so not knowing at all what else is out there besides the OST), I’ll say that my most fervent hope from the expansion is some quieter stuff to break it up, because man is this thing really nonstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,529 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Oh there will definitely be some of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: The thing is the album isn't even a true isolated score; it's basically just an estimation of one. If you attempt to match the UE to the film, it constantly desyncs. Plus there is even a small amount of music that is not in the film that is on the UE for some reason (e.g. the ending of "Sebulba's Dirty Hand", which is not present in the film). The whole thing is a huge mess. The silver lining is that it gave us more music from TPM, which is good. You're right! For some reason I forgot that there was some music not present in the film. And yes, no objections to that! 17 hours ago, Jay said: I'm guessing to make the UE, they just opened up the Pro Tools session and dumped it, but accidentally opened an early version that was synced to not-quite-the-final-cut of the film, and not the very last session Makes a lot of sense, probably we got the isolated track of another version of the movie. In was a weird move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,018 Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 14 hours ago, Edmilson said: I agree. The cue is too much Powell for it to be a Batu Sener creation. However, the cue apparently was posted in Batu's website, and in a list of cues he appears as composer of that one, so I dunno in what to believe anymore. To tell the difference we'd have to know what Batu Sener sounds like on his own. Besides, additional composers can emulate the style quite well most of the time as was the case with Kamen, Horner etc. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Sener was working with a sketch or an idea by Powell. I was surprised, especially for the Dragon scores how much Sener was involved on certain cues I swore were completely Powell, and maybe that's how it's meant to be. They're all helping Powell and get credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 So... either these specialty label owners are completely ignorant or they’ve been lying for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryonDavis 172 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 5 hours ago, mstrox said: I am about to go out for a run and pulled up the Solo OST on Plex for listening. I don’t know what database it pulls from, but Plex lists additional composers... Ignore the “now playing,” that was one of my kid’s good night songs, but let the record show that Annie is full of bangers. Those cowriter credits are provided by the label. Batu works for John. 6 hours ago, crumbs said: So maybe there is a scale of fees depending on the quantity involved? Perhaps it's 0% for digital releases up to 5,000 units though. There's obviously financial hurdles otherwise the labels would've expanded far more post-2005 LA scores by now. Streaming is unlimited. Paid downloads counts towards the limit before reuse kicks in. 6 hours ago, Jay said: Just happened to come across this relevant quote from MV of LLL Records https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=3&threadID=134366&archive=0 5000 is for scores before a date I cant quite remember. Pre 2005. Anything after is 15k. I usually consult the union. Digital rights usually stay with the studio. The fees vary for each release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 So there's really no obstacle preventing the release of post-2005 scores recorded in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryonDavis 172 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: So there's really no obstacle preventing the release of post-2005 scores recorded in the USA? The only obstacle is the studio in some cases. 5k pre 2005. 15k post 2005. AFM L.A. and NY recordings. 8 hours ago, crumbs said: Dark Horizons posted a short article about the expanded soundtrack and I noticed this interesting exchange in the comments section: Firstly, interesting how much interest/knowledge/demand there seems to be among general movie fans for Star Wars score expansions (and the flaws of previous releases). Secondly, maybe we need a separate discussion for LA union fees because there's a lot of conflicting information. We've now heard they don't apply to streaming releases, to quantities under 15,000 and, according to the comment above, they no longer apply if every musician is credited on the album (which was apparently changed a few years ago). Maybe their comment is poorly worded and that was the condition pre-2005? Abbey Road and the Newman Scoring Stage. If any part is recorded in L.A. it is under AFM rules. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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