crumbs 14,318 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I swear the Main Title sounded slightly different in theatres, like I picked up on a few notes that were held longer and shorter than the TFA version. But I did think it sounded very close to the TFA recording at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 399 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Well in tlj, I counted around 8 or 9 times the force theme was applied. I think it felt like it was over used because it was arranged the same way almost every time. The finale sounded fresh at first with that short passage, but as soon as the force theme kicked in, I was disappointed. DolceMecha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I just got done seeing it. I didn't notice the Emperor's theme at all. Either the score was low in the mix or I was so focused on the visuals that I didn't notice it. Still, I'm looking forward to someone doing a score analysis with time stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 399 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, Demodex said: I just got done seeing it. I didn't notice the Emperor's theme at all. Either the score was low in the mix or I was so focused on the visuals that I didn't notice it. The Emperor's theme is not on the OST. In the film, it appears when Snoke is holding Rey face up in midair using the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 1 hour ago, crumbs said: I swear the Main Title sounded slightly different in theatres, like I picked up on a few notes that were held longer and shorter than the TFA version. But I did think it sounded very close to the TFA recording at the time. I'm pretty sure that was a new recording for the film (or else Rian Johnson is a liar). The first note sounded more powerful, and the horns sounded less obnoxiously loud at the end of the first statement of Luke's theme. I was shocked to read/hear that the album had tracked the TFA one after being happier with the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Understanding the OST is gonna be a mystery in a number of ways. The Main Titles, the concert cue, what's on the OST vs what's not. I'd love to understand all of this better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jilal 569 Posted December 17, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2017 How can this not be on the OST album? fatehbaz, John, Holko and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 ooo that's a nice little exciting passage. I'm guessing that's misnamed though since I've never heard anything like that in TFA, so it must be from TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Damn, I keep mislabeling TLJ stuff with TFA. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, p0llux said: The Emperor's theme is not on the OST. In the film, it appears when Snoke is holding Rey face up in midair using the force. Yeah, I know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 16 hours ago, Jilal said: How can this not be on the OST album? I feel this is just the tip of the iceberg when we start going into more details about the complete score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Stuff like this doesn't move me at all. It's typical JW action music that wouldn't stand out in any JW score. ins and gkgyver 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alex 2,835 Posted December 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2017 Honestly I think it was worth having the Canto Bight scenes just for the music JW wrote. I can't stop listening to "Canto Bight" or "The Fathiers" CGCJ, Tiburon, Holko and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 That's my feeling! Even though those sequences drag, they add to my enjoyment of the film because of how excellently they are scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 16 hours ago, Jilal said: How can this not be on the OST album? Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown 238 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Okay so last time I posted this, no one responded. But I think the similarity to these is a little insane lol. Also, this. Breadstick Basilisk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 16 hours ago, Jilal said: How can this not be on the OST album? This is good. Nice action bit. Wish it was on the soundtrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The amount of trumpet and brass flourishes in the film was incredible. Nobody writes for brass like Williams; the musicians must pinch themselves when they see the sheet music (then panic... and practice, practice, practice). Hopefully a lot of it gets covered in the FYC as it didn't seem thematically derived from existing scores. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Too many brass flourishes for me. I consider that one of the score's issues and it reminded me of aspects of the prequel scores that I dislike. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Bespin said: So this version of the Theme on the CD is directed by Gustavo Dudamel. Finally, the final credits of TLJ score is : Co-Conducted by John Williams, William Ross and Gustavo Dudamel. That's assuming the TFA OST credit was accurate for that track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 67 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Having seen the film and listened to the soundtrack for the first time, I don't think one time through is sufficient to completely absorb either one. After hearing the action music Williams wrote for this one, I really wonder if the streamlined sound of TFA really was more due to how that film was made rather than any independently-made creative decisions. I am stunned that at 85 he was able to write a score this vigorous. That's the best word for it, I think. It's so full of energy and sounds like it could have been written a decade ago rather than this year. The way the score follows every turn of the film (and some of those turns just whip right from one thing to another) is incredible considering his age. Wall-to-wall scoring isn't always a good thing, but it really didn't bother me in this case. I think the parts without music were well-chosen, and as far as I am concerned the rest of the film is perfectly able to support the amount of score it received. I was surprised at how well the music was mixed in the movie, certainly better than TFA. I think his handling of Luke's final act was perfect--it made that part of the story incredibly enthralling. I think that assessment could actually go for how he scored Luke's entire arc. His use of Leia's theme was also handled better than some of the other recurring themes, especially early in the film when she was thrown into space. I think using the climax of the concert arrangement for her flight through space made the scene fantastically surreal rather than silly (your mileage may vary, of course). And I was so happy to hear that warm rendition of Luke and Leia's theme. I think someone else here said that Williams has finally got all he can get out of the Force theme, and I am inclined to agree. There's only so many times that theme can be played by a solo horn before it starts to be ignored. That said, though, there is one gigantic brass rendition of that theme (I think it underscored the burning tree and is on the album in The Sacred Jedi Texts--would have to see the film again to be sure) that I loved. As far as other recurring theme uses go, I thought the delicate statement of the main title at the end of the film was a beautiful moment. I was also surprised--pleasantly--to hear him write some wonderful variations on the Resistance march, which I didn't even think he would bring back. I think it's a shame that there isn't more Rey's theme on the album, considering that he did explore it throughout the movie. I am looking forward to spending more time with score on album and seeing the film at least one more time to get a better sense of how it all hangs together. 2 hours ago, crumbs said: The amount of trumpet and brass flourishes in the film was incredible. Nobody writes for brass like Williams; the musicians must pinch themselves when they see the sheet music (then panic... and practice, practice, practice). That's just it, though--there's no practice involved. They don't see the music until the day of the sessions. That's a fact that never ceases to blow my mind when it comes to Williams' more complex scores. This one certainly put them through their paces; no other film composer writes for trumpets as well as Williams, at least as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 That used to be the case but I've read that in recent years some of the sheet music has been provided to musicians to practice overnight, mainly if there are overly complex passages. Some of the brass in TLJ is simply breathless. Cannot fault the performers or mixing department one iota; they nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 67 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, crumbs said: That used to be the case but I've read that in recent years some of the sheet music has been provided to musicians to practice overnight, mainly if there are overly complex passages. Some of the brass in TLJ is simply breathless. Cannot fault the performers or mixing department one iota; they nailed it. I haven't heard that. Interesting. But yeah, everything about the brass in this score is faultless, from the writing to the performing to the recording and mixing. Perfectly handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this... There's that bit in Escape that sounds like the Finn motif from TFA. Now, I know people dismissed that once they saw the film because Finn isn't even awake yet, but, if I'm not mistaken, I think that part happens when BB8 is repairing Poe's X-Wing. Considering the fact that it was neve actually Finn's motif, I think it's still possible it's a conscious TFA quote. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted December 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2017 I thought this was a great score. Because Williams' music captures so well the moment-to-moment emotional and situational changes in a film, so much of a film's tone and style tends to get imprinted on his scores. Johnson's approach to the plot was also, I think, quite different from the OT Star Wars films the new trilogy is modeled on in that he was more interested in following up on the leads of TFA than introducing new ones. The OT films tended to be more self-sufficient than this, and Williams' score always follows suit: TESB changes the whole direction of the saga as it suddenly becomes focused on Vader's personal quest for Luke (and thus makes the film focused on the Skywalker family), so he needed the Imperial March for this. ROTJ spends a lot of time introducing the new characters of the Emperor and the Ewoks, so he wrote new themes for them. New characters in TLJ are essentially confined to minor roles, so we get secondary themes for them. But since Johnson seemed most interested in character development, I feel it was the right move musically to construct a score based primarily on existing material. I agree with others here that TFA themes sounded terrific in this film in terms of effectiveness. I also feel the same about the OT themes. And although many here seem disappointed by the use of the Force theme several times in the film (the one at the end I can understand, but that's surely a directorial decision), I felt they were also effective for a couple of reasons. First, as Steef mentioned, the Force theme is the real main theme of the saga. Luke's theme will always adorn the main title but usually has little place outside the OT, where Luke was the hero. Second, Williams shows that he's still sensitive to the varying uses of harmony in the theme. There is a way of ending the theme's first phrase that is darker than the usual chord we get there (on the so called "Neapolitan" or flat II), one that was frequent only in ROTS, which of course was darker in tone than all the other films. Interestingly, we get this same setting of the theme twice in "The Sacred Jedi Texts", where Luke is perhaps at his lowest, feeling so disillusioned by the whole Jedi philosophy that he is about to destroy the sacred texts and symbolically disown his own past and any connections to new potential Jedi like Rey. Those settings have the dark end to the Force theme's first phrase. I would also point out that there is a subtle use of dissonance in these two statements of the theme, where the end of the first short idea (the theme's 6th and/or 7th notes) is supported by an accompaniment in which the 5th degree of the minor scale rises up to scale degree 6, which clashes with another 5 that's still sounding. It's a minute detail, but one I'm prone to hear and one that traditionally takes on connotations of the funereal, lamenting, or otherwise deep sadness. I can't help but hear these as perfect accompaniment to the scene. And by my count, up to TLJ, there have been 114 statements of the Force theme in the saga, and I'm still not sick of it because of the subtlety with which the maestro is still able to handle it. So while this score may not introduce much that's new in the way of thematic material, I think it shows an overwhelming wealth of skill in the way it takes established material and carves it out emotionally to perfectly match what we see on screen. In short, there's no one thing I can point to that shows its genius. It is simply content to be masterfully done. The Five Tones, Docteur Qui, James and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, crumbs said: That used to be the case but I've read that in recent years some of the sheet music has been provided to musicians to practice overnight, mainly if there are overly complex passages. Some of the brass in TLJ is simply breathless. Cannot fault the performers or mixing department one iota; they nailed it. Well, I don't know if you read my review of the LSO concert in paris, but I attended a conference before the concert where musicians told us that they received the sheet of music the very same day they record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Yes that was true of the LSO but I believe recently this has changed for LA musicians. toothless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Does anybody know if the album is mostly chronological? I didn't see a chrono playlist as I was blipping through this thread this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 10 hours ago, DominicCobb said: Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this... There's that bit in Escape that sounds like the Finn motif from TFA. Now, I know people dismissed that once they saw the film because Finn isn't even awake yet, but, if I'm not mistaken, I think that part happens when BB8 is repairing Poe's X-Wing. Considering the fact that it was neve actually Finn's motif, I think it's still possible it's a conscious TFA quote. Yup! On 12/15/2017 at 2:09 AM, nightscape94 said: Too bad about Finn's theme not really being present basically at all, except for one itsy bitsy moment in the first track which is barely detectable. On 12/15/2017 at 2:11 AM, Jay said: It's not Finn's Theme there. Its just simliar-ish music, it plays when BB8 is fiddling with wires in Poe's X-Wing. Finn doesn't wake up from his coma until after the whole first battle is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, mstrox said: Does anybody know if the album is mostly chronological? I didn't see a chrono playlist as I was blipping through this thread this morning. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Thanks! Don't know why in my head the "Who Are You?" scene took place before "Lesson One" There were two score things that really BOTHERED me in the film, and they're both kind of interrelated. 1) The close proximity of two giant Binary-Sunset style plays of the Force theme at the end (Luke's disappearance and the slave child looking to the stars). 2) The third time in a row that we've ended with the Force theme seguing into the main titles - a transition that I hated in ROTS, and which although smoothed in TFA and TLJ, was still not my favorite, musically. And the fact that it's been repeated now with little variation three times in twelve years, just kind of not my thing. The second one still irks me a bit, but hearing it on album gave me a chance to think about it some more - how the duality is reflective of one dreamer's journey ending, and another one just beginning. So #1 works better for me now. The rest of the score is just lovely. Surprised that a few big theme highlights from the movie were left off (Poe's victory at the beginning, Rey practicing saber, the bulk of the Yoda stuff - I think - and the reprise of the Emperor's theme) - things that made a big impression on me when I saw the movie. Not sure I've had this feeling about a JW album since Phantom Menace. Usually I'm pretty happy that all the highlights are covered on the OST. igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 As tired as we all are of Binary sunset endings, the one touch I did really like is that little extra flourish added at 0:51 of “Finale” to match the shooting star. I found it to be a very sweet touch by Williams. Not Mr. Big and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Since they were posted pages ago and Clyp links expire in 24 hours anyway, here are 4 great unreleased bits of music from the film! Poe's Theme from the opening battle Rey's Theme -> new Luke/Rey theme blend as she trains with the lightsaber Rey's Theme expansion for the escape pod travel The Emperor's Theme as Snoke tortures Rey CGCJ and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 That's the Emperor statement people go crazy over? I recall someone saying it's the best sounding statement of that theme ever. If those are the missing highlights, I'd say the album really doesn't need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Oh come on, that Rey Lightsaber cue is aces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Agreed! And that Emperor's theme sounded amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Isn't there another missing Poe theme from his speech? The other big one is when Holdo goes to hyperspace, though I guess that's in the end credits? We know for sure that's the same recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, DominicCobb said: Isn't there another missing Poe theme from his speech? Yes 1 minute ago, DominicCobb said: The other big one is when Holdo goes to hyperspace, though I guess that's in the end credits? Yes 1 minute ago, DominicCobb said: We know for sure that's the same recording? No, we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 49 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Agreed! And that Emperor's theme sounded amazing. Nope. We got much better versions in Episodes 3 and 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Why does this keep happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 He's always trying to be a contrarian just for the sake of, you know, being a contrarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The Rey lightsaber practice cue was a classic Star Wars "silent movie" moment, where everything falls away and it's just a character and music. Plus, it was a nifty interpolation of an old and new theme. I can't believe that didn't make it to the OST. Also, I posted this in the album forum and no one took the bait, so can anyone tell me where we've heard this passage before? Interspersed between Force theme statements during Luke's final scene is this melody that I'm sure was part of A New Hope somewhere. Does anyone recognize it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, igger6 said: The Rey lightsaber practice cue was a classic Star Wars "silent movie" moment, where everything falls away and it's just a character and music. Plus, it was a nifty interpolation of an old and new theme. I can't believe that didn't make it to the OST. YES! Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, igger6 said: The Rey lightsaber practice cue was a classic Star Wars "silent movie" moment, where everything falls away and it's just a character and music. Plus, it was a nifty interpolation of an old and new theme. I can't believe that didn't make it to the OST. Also, I posted this in the album forum and no one took the bait, so can anyone tell me where we've heard this passage before? Interspersed between Force theme statements during Luke's final scene is this melody that I'm sure was part of A New Hope somewhere. Does anyone recognize it? What? Those 4 notes could be from anywhere. 17 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Why does this keep happening? Because you're always wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 No, it's five notes, and I'm sure I know them, originally played on low strings somewhere in the golden age of Williams, I think the original trilogy, I think ANH, I think on Tatooine. In my inexpert plunking, I think it's G—higher C—Bb—A—lower C, with the Bb and the second C held longer. My memory of this melody adds three more notes at the end that don't appear in the "Peace and Purpose" version: a D-Eb-D sequence where the first two notes are quick and the last one is held for longer. Anyone? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGCJ 394 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 If anyone is interested here's my analysis of what's on the OST: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DW-2_W4bTKZb-NeUlL5NUMMqvzDAMzHCH1a8waRH6ic/htmlview# It's far from perfect but I tried to make it like Jay's Force Awakens analysis as the format seemed to work well. Any corrections or additions are welcome. Will and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Excellent! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The Rey's Theme bits and Poe's Theme that Jay posted are great! Especially that little trumpet bit at the end of the Escape Pod clip. The Emperor's Theme cameo is unremarkable. Nothing really special, aside from the fact that it even makes an appearance. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 It signals the similarities between Snoke and Palpatine. There's a lot of symbolism in this film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, igger6 said: The Rey lightsaber practice cue was a classic Star Wars "silent movie" moment, where everything falls away and it's just a character and music. Plus, it was a nifty interpolation of an old and new theme. I can't believe that didn't make it to the OST. Also, I posted this in the album forum and no one took the bait, so can anyone tell me where we've heard this passage before? Interspersed between Force theme statements during Luke's final scene is this melody that I'm sure was part of A New Hope somewhere. Does anyone recognize it? Sounds almost like Rey's theme to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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