Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, crumbs said: What the actual fuck are you talking about?? This is an insanely contrived misinterpretation of my post and I DO NOT appreciate having my words twisted in such a way, nor my motivations painted in such a deceptive, false manner. You did write: in ways that Williams' ears won't immediately perk up and go, 'hold on a minute...'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Once 605 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Technically “A Window to the Past” and “Window to the Past” are different titles. The reason I’m not a great contributor to this community is largely because I’m not comfortable enough writing in English. I spend plenty of time analysing Williams’ scores with my Danish friends, so every second of music written for his scores - and especially these three - are of great value to me. 😊 I do not feel entitled to them, though. TownerFan, Falstaft, TSMefford and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If we all don't calm down, I feel like LLL will use a time turner and take us all the way back to the Phantom Menace: Ultimate Edition days! HEED THY WARNING! TSMefford and Bayesian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: You did write: in ways that Williams' ears won't immediately perk up and go, 'hold on a minute...'. So Mike proactively making intelligent assembly changes to his score presentations, after learning Williams' preferences over dozens of previous collaborations, translates to the insinuation of, "MM's trying to fool and deceive JW and jockeying for advatage." Seriously? With all due respect, if you're extrapolating that from my comment you need your head checked. How about: Mike's collaborations with John are becoming increasingly congenial and he's understanding how to balance Williams' preference for a consistent listening experience while also pleasing fans that want every cue included? And that presenting a balanced presentation that's already factored in such chronology decisions saves everyone time and money on these very lengthy, protracted projects? Bayesian, redishere and Chewy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I'm just saying your phrasing lends itself to multiple interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 And for the avoidance of doubt I've made it explicitly clear the only interpretation my post intended; Mike adding another string to his bow in building upon his mutually beneficial, collaborative approach with Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,348 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Yeah, so that's what I meant. 'Window' and 'A Window' is not the same. (And are debates always so heated here?) redishere, TSMefford and Jurassic Shark 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 What @TownerFan said should have been the end of this filthy JWFan chapter of irrelevance. And now we're misinterpreting @crumbs' words and throw mud at his statement - and one sentence later we slightly paraphrase what he said? And that's the highly topical subject? And then, there's this discussion about a missing 'A'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Yeah, so that's what I meant. 'Window' and 'A Window' is not the same. (And are debates always so heated here?) Apologies, I didn't notice the difference in that track title (the lack of 'A') but the rest of the track titles are identical. Wonder if it's an oversight or if the track itself is different. Odd that it isn't designated as an [Alternate], if the latter. Considering AWTTP on the OST is not a "true" concert arrangement recording but rather comprised of excerpts from multiple cues elsewhere in the score (ala Ivanka's Theme in KOTCS), it does seem rather redundant if the complete film score already contains everything from the OST track. I don't think the extended flute intro is featured anywhere else in the score though, hence its inclusion. Don't get me wrong though. I'll be doing cartwheels if this is the alternate Remembering Mother -- but I think such an alternate would have been labelled as such. 16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: (And are debates always so heated here?) Not with me, I'd like to consider myself a reasonably rational, calm poster. However, I DO NOT like having my words twisted with absurd insinuations I did not imply -- and I responded accordingly. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Alan, Bilbo, Falstaft and 7 others 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Quick question, which has probably been answered on one of the pages in one of the related threads: Prisoner of Azkaban credits: The Firebolt and End Credits Suite 7:22 Is that like the credits on the OST - a nasty and jarring hodgepodge of various tracks, or is it one piece of music incorporating the score's themes ala The Empire Strikes Back's credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 hours ago, pete said: Is that like the credits on the OST - a nasty and jarring hodgepodge of various tracks, or is it one piece of music incorporation the score's themes ala The Empire Strikes Back's credits? It's the first 4 minutes of Mischief Managed (with the film insert included at the head of the credits, which was omitted from the OST) followed by (we believe) a condensed version of Harry's Wondrous World Hedwig's Theme. The edited theme suite Mischief Managed! is not included on the LLL set because it contains tracked music from cues already featured in the score proper. (Fixed). pete, Zanobard and Alan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hedwig’s Theme, not Harry’s Wondrous World Holko, bollemanneke, TSMefford and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Yep I always mix those up. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Apologies, I didn't notice the difference in that track title (the lack of 'A') but the rest of the track titles are identical. Wonder if it's an oversight or if the track itself is different. Odd that it isn't designated as an [Alternate], if the latter. Considering AWTTP on the OST is not a "true" concert arrangement recording but rather comprised of excerpts from multiple cues elsewhere in the score (ala Ivanka's Theme in KOTCS), it does seem rather redundant if the complete film score already contains everything from the OST track. I don't think the extended flute intro is featured anywhere else in the score though, hence its inclusion. Don't get me wrong though. I'll be doing cartwheels if this is the alternate Remembering Mother -- but I think such an alternate would have been labelled as such. Not with me, I'd like to consider myself a reasonably rational, calm poster. However, I DO NOT like having my words twisted with absurd insinuations I did not imply -- and I responded accordingly. Right. I just think Matessino would be too clever and careful to make such a track name mistake. I imagine there are contractual/other nonsensical reasons for retaining track names. And if Entry into the Great Hall was retained, even though it's a batantly wrong title, omitting a single A seems just an error too weird to make. You're right that the flute solo in the beginning of AWTTP is unique to that track, and possibly the ending as well, but if MM decided to ditch Mischief Managed (thank God), I cn't see him repeating AWTTP. Also, the fact that there is no (alternate) in the title is indeed interesting, but don't forget that we also have track names like The Wizard Consort. I'm therefore guessing that this new WTTP track might be a collection of the flute solo, one/two alternates and maybe the flute ending, to ensure a good listening experience. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, crumbs said: The edited theme suite Mischief Managed! is not included on the LLL set because it contains tracked music from cues already featured in the score proper. About this, doesn't the intro from Buckbeak's Flight contain an additional cymbal on Mischief Managed! that is not on the OST track? We need that cymbal on the LLL set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Also, the fact that there is no (alternate) in the title is indeed interesting, but don't forget that we also have track names like The Wizard Consort. I'm therefore guessing that this new WTTP track might be a collection of the flute solo, one/two alternates and maybe the flute ending, to ensure a good listening experience. I'm hoping The Wizards' Consort is the three pub source pieces (two at the Leaky Couldron, one at the Three Broomsticks). I'll be thrilled if the WTTP track contains the OST track flute solo followed by something totally different, because I think everything else in that track is covered elsewhere in the LLL set. The only real point of confusion is the fact the 'A' is missing from the track title. I wonder if Jay would be kind enough to at least confirm or deny if this particular track is just the OST track or something different. 24 minutes ago, Chewy said: About this, doesn't the intro from Buckbeak's Flight contain an additional cymbal on Mischief Managed! that is not on the OST track? We need that cymbal on the LLL set! The cymbal in the Buckbeak's Flight intro is on the OST version of Mischief Managed!, so you can get it from there. bollemanneke and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 hours ago, crumbs said: What the actual fuck are you talking about?? This is an insanely contrived misinterpretation of my post and I DO NOT appreciate having my words twisted in such a way, nor my motivations painted in such a deceptive, false manner. I made no insinuation even remotely resembling your comment and have nothing but admiration for Mike and his process (which continues to bear fruit and evolve with each new JW collaboration). You really should stop and think for half a second before posting comments like this. I stopped reading at f***. The fact that you get so het up and theatrically upset must mean I hit the mark. Even if you don't want to admit it to yourself. Never mind. I'm done talking to you. 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: You did write: in ways that Williams' ears won't immediately perk up and go, 'hold on a minute...'. 👍👍👍 Exactly! If that's not deceptive (or at least trying to be), what is? 😂 3 hours ago, scallenger said: If we all don't calm down, I feel like LLL will use a time turner and take us all the way back to the Phantom Menace: Ultimate Edition days! HEED THY WARNING! Ah, to be young again... I was 20 when that came out. I think I'd actually welcome that. 😂 The world seemed different back then. Better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain in the arse in dragging this back up, but why @publicist would ask such a ridiculous thing in this thread, on this forum is absurd! What does anyone expect as a member of the John Williams Fan Forum to talk about, especially when a beloved title from the composer is released? I mean, Pub, you've been here longer than I have, surely this phenomenon of obsessing/discussing these scores is commonplace, a regular occurrence? Granted you can't read through all the threads on this forum, but did you miss the blaring titles that obviously lead to this type of discussion? Sometimes I would say, yeah this obsessive worrying over small differences in cue lengths and titles is a tad bit sad, but then I remember that I'm engaging in the discourse in this forum for a reason: because these small things matter. No one's asking you to care about it, no one's forcing you to participate, but to come in here with those offhand remarks and expect to get a reasoned response is a bit much, don't you think? crumbs and redishere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Josh500 said: The fact that you get so het up and theatrically upset must mean I hit the mark. Even if you don't want to admit it to yourself. Never mind. I'm done talking to you. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted November 30, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 WOOPS! You can blame my proof-reading for this; I honestly didn't catch that "A Window To The Past" had gotten changed to "Window To The Past" on the new set. It's identical to the OST track. TSMefford, crumbs, Holko and 3 others 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jay said: WOOPS! You can blame my proof-reading for this; I honestly didn't catch that "A Window To The Past" had gotten changed to "Window To The Past" on the new set. It's identical to the OST track. Thanks for confirming Jay, figured it was just a typo on the tracklist or something. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Disco Stu said: For real man, Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted November 30, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Everyone can put the "A" back in in their digital files Molly Weasley, TSMefford, crumbs and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Jay said: Everyone can put the "A" back in in their digital files But what if there’s a cross fade Jay? redishere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jay said: WOOPS! You can blame my proof-reading for this; I honestly didn't catch that "A Window To The Past" had gotten changed to "Window To The Past" on the new set. It's identical to the OST track. Oh dear... No alternates then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Oh dear... No alternates then. To be fair...he didnt say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 So, is it a typo, or was it intentional? Either way I don't care, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Arpy said: So, is it a typo, or was it intentional? Either way I don't care, just curious. What part of this wasn't clear? 13 minutes ago, Jay said: WOOPS! You can blame my proof-reading for this; I honestly didn't catch that "A Window To The Past" had gotten changed to "Window To The Past" on the new set. It's identical to the OST track. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 I'm sure lawyers from WB are madly scrambling to their phones, demanding an injunction on this set being released. Jurassic Shark, Bilbo and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, TSMefford said: To be fair...he didnt say that. Where else would they be...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I didn't know the extent of Jay's involvement with the set @Disco Stu I thought he was referring to the little chart comparing OST to LLL... Disco Stu and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Oh dear... No alternates then. It's still possible some alternates are mixed into the film score presentation, if they were complimentary enough to the final versions. Quite a few tracks are longer than their corresponding duration in the film (which either means unused music or, hopefully, alternates). The Portrait Gallery is an obvious example, with both the original version and revised insert (The Big Doors) included back to back. Also still possible Williams didn't even record the WTTP alternates in the first place. Once, bollemanneke, TSMefford and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 I don't listen to scores to relive a movie watching experience. In fact, my appreciation for a score, with very few exceptions, is quite detached to my reaction to the movie. Therefore, I don't cling to the chronological sequence too much. Now, I do agree with these sort of these big thematic orchestral scores, a chronological presentation can often work because you can follow the development and resolution of musical themes. But I do think they can probably work better if they are presented broadly in chronological order, with a few exceptions when justified. I still think Incident at Isla Nublar works better with the Falling Car than each track on its own. I wish it was kept that way in the JP collection. Same thing goes for Hatching Baby Raptor and Life Finds a Way. The coherence and musical flow of the score wouldn't have been compromised in any way (it would, in fact, be improved, IMHO). With a few odd exceptions, I think JW is a terrific album producer. TPM is a terrific OST, because of what it's actually there, instead of what is not. Sleepers, Nixon, Memoirs of a Geisha, and many others, all album assemblies that are worth keeping even if more complete presentations turn up TSMefford, Pieter Boelen and Josh500 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 So when is the Irishwoman premiering POA music in her programme again? Tomorrow? redishere and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 I wasn't the only proofreader of the liner notes, of course, we all missed it. These things happen. Like the teeth from JP Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, Romão said: I don't listen to scores to relive a movie watching experience. In fact, my appreciation for a score, with very few exceptions, is quite detached to my reaction to the movie. Therefore, I don't cling to the chronological sequence too much. Now, I do agree with these sort of these big thematic orchestral scores, a chronological presentation can often work because you can follow the development and resolution of musical themes. But I do think they can probably work better if they are presented broadly in chronological order, with a few exceptions when justified. I still think Incident at Isla Nublar works better with the Falling Car than each track on its own. I wish it was kept that way in the JP collection. Same thing goes for Hatching Baby Raptor and Life Finds a Way. The coherence and musical flow of the score wouldn't have been compromised in any way (it would, in fact, be improved, IMHO). With a few odd exceptions, I think JW is a terrific album producer. TPM is a terrific OST, because of what it's actually there, instead of what is not. Sleepers, Nixon, Memoirs of a Geisha, and many others, all album assemblies that are worth keeping even if more complete presentations turn up Great post! I think the OST album of TPM still could have been better (so many highlights were missing!), but overall I agree with you. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown 238 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 At least you can add an A back to your digital files, but you can never restore the toothless dinosaur!! (actually Photoshop would do the trick..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Ask Stefancos about that. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demondm810 399 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 Y'all need to get this set before you melt down 😏 bollemanneke, crumbs and Molly Weasley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 That's the thing, it won't start shipping for a week at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown 238 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I don't need this set. I can wait as long as I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jay said: I wasn't the only proofreader of the liner notes, of course, we all missed it. These things happen. Like the teeth from JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Jay said: WOOPS! You can blame my proof-reading for this; I honestly didn't catch that "A Window To The Past" had gotten changed to "Window To The Past" on the new set. It's identical to the OST track. No big deal. This reminds me of the Raiders March confusion! This famous track has been spelled, at different times, by different album producers, and probably even by JW himself: Raiders March Raiders' March Raider's March The Raiders March Nobody seems to know the correct way to spell this... bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 It's The Raiders March bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: It's The Raiders March Fixed! https://www.halleonard.com/product/viewproduct.action?itemid=4490014&lid=28&promotion=980001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Sometimes it's with THE, sometimes it's not! They are very flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Where else would they be...? Who knows. We'll find out for sure when we get it. 44 minutes ago, crumbs said: It's still possible some alternates are mixed into the film score presentation, if they were complimentary enough to the final versions. Quite a few tracks are longer than their corresponding duration in the film (which either means unused music or, hopefully, alternates). The Portrait Gallery is an obvious example, with both the original version and revised insert (The Big Doors) included back to back. Also still possible Williams didn't even record the WTTP alternates in the first place. Yes. This precisely. They could be snuck in somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted November 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Romão said: I don't listen to scores to relive a movie watching experience. In fact, my appreciation for a score, with very few exceptions, is quite detached to my reaction to the movie. Therefore, I don't cling to the chronological sequence too much. Now, I do agree with these sort of these big thematic orchestral scores, a chronological presentation can often work because you can follow the development and resolution of musical themes. But I do think they can probably work better if they are presented broadly in chronological order, with a few exceptions when justified. I still think Incident at Isla Nublar works better with the Falling Car than each track on its own. I wish it was kept that way in the JP collection. Same thing goes for Hatching Baby Raptor and Life Finds a Way. The coherence and musical flow of the score wouldn't have been compromised in any way (it would, in fact, be improved, IMHO). With a few odd exceptions, I think JW is a terrific album producer. TPM is a terrific OST, because of what it's actually there, instead of what is not. Sleepers, Nixon, Memoirs of a Geisha, and many others, all album assemblies that are worth keeping even if more complete presentations turn up Quality post here, @Romão. Another thing that comes into the equation is the context, or the time at which the albums were produced. Until the late 1980s, the limitations of the LP format (45-50 mins. duration max, splitted on two sides) forced the composer to find creative ways to present what he might think would be the most relevant/musically interesting cues. The CD offered the chance to present more music, also flowing uninterrupted from beginning to end, so the concept changed again. For example, I think JW would have done something very different with scores like Dracula, Return of the Jedi or Temple of Doom if he would have got a longer running time available, or perhaps he would have changed the track order to make the music flow differently. Of course, we all have preferences when it comes to this specific aspect of film music listening. I think we live in a very lucky time where we can have basically all the music available, but we can also arrange a personalized playlist at our fingertips if we want to. So, really, it's basically a non-issue right now. We're able to enjoy the music of our favorite composer in the way we like the most. Molly Weasley, TSMefford, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Holko said: That's the thing, it won't start shipping for a week at least. Wonder who'll be the first to get this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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