New Project: John Williams Potter Scoring

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

Hi all! We are very excited to present a composition project that has been a long time in the making. We have created the Potter Scoring Project, where we constructed a score for Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire in the style of John Williams, imagining the musical continuity that could exist if the thematic material from 1-3 connected the following movies. 

 

This started with the idea of using the Voldemort motifs in the graveyard scene for his return, and we have utilized the other existing themes throughout (the first cue uses a fusion of one of the Voldemort themes with Hedwig). We've attempted to emulate Williams’ writing style to musically unify this with the first three installments. This isn’t meant as any commentary about Patrick Doyle’s score, but rather an exploration of how Williams may have developed and evolved his material farther in the series to create musical unity. There is also a thematic catalogue of the existing Potter themes for reference. We are eager to share this with the people here at JWFan who can appreciate this endeavor and who love these scores and movies!

 

At our website, you can read more about this and we will post new sections of the score every week. You can also subscribe to email notifications for these. We would love to hear from you all, here or via email at ravendorstudios@gmail.com.

 

Check out the first cue now!

https://sites.google.com/view/ravendor/goblet-of-fire

 

Molly Sanford & Ben Pawlak
Ravendor Studios

[Cerebral Cortex 3,158]

Mr. Bellamy has entered the chat. 

 

 

[mrbellamy 5,718]

#trendsetter 

 

I never noticed Voldy and Hedwig B were that close.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,158]

This is a seriously cool project and I both applaud and admire you all for the hard work behind this massive endeavor. Looking forward to the weekly updates! Thanks for sharing this with the community. 

[artguy360 1,723]

Fun! Thanks for sharing and good luck with the whole project. The 1st cue is solid.

[Tydirium 863]

Very cool concept! Love the fusion of the two themes during the title.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

8 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

#trendsetter 

 

Wow, we've been on this forum for years and managed to have never seen that playlist. It is interesting that we used some of the exact same clips as you in our temp process that started us off (we put JW's music over the entire movie before composing for Goblet of Fire).

I think you'll find it interesting as we post more cues which direction we've gone in with some of the themes. For example, where you have the family theme over Harry and Dumbledore's conversation at the end, we're using the Wand of the Phoenix to recall the connection between Harry and Voldemort. Hopefully you'll stay tuned for updates.  

 

Thanks for all your comments!
MS

[Jay 32,111]

Very cool!

[Thor 5,979]

You should have done this for the post-GOBLET scores. GOBLET OF FIRE is a superb score in and of itself, perhaps second only to PRISONER OF AZKABAN in the whole franchise. Replace the Hoopers and Desplats instead!

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

44 minutes ago, Thor said:

You should have done this for the post-GOBLET scores. GOBLET OF FIRE is a superb score in and of itself, perhaps second only to PRISONER OF AZKABAN in the whole franchise. Replace the Hoopers and Desplats instead!

 

We're definitely not trying to replace Patrick Doyle, we appreciate his score! We wanted to start from the premise of continuing all of John Williams' themes, in his style. We're going for unity... Stay tuned!

 

MS

[Thor 5,979]

Yeah, I know. I was just "ribbin'", as it were. But cool project!

[igger6 772]

This is the coolest bit of JW nerdery I've seen maybe ever!  It's like simultaneously giving 2005-era Williams a Time Turner (so he'd have room for one more massive score in his schedule) and putting him under the Imperius curse (so he'd be forced not to abandon his own great motifs).  I especially appreciate the commentary on your use of themes and the incredible theme catalog.  You guys should be working for a label!  

[HunterTech 742]

Goblet of Fire is actually my favorite of the series score wise, but I often imagine what someone being 100% faithful to Williams could be like. And the first track definitely has me intrigued in the eventual directions this can take. Particularly in possible new motifs, since they would be eventually needed. Like to see where this goes!

 

Now, I take it some parts are taken from the first 3 scores? I can pick up on synth mock ups in spots, but others sound fairly "real" in a sense.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

Thanks so much!
 

7 hours ago, igger6 said:

You guys should be working for a label! 

 

That's the dream.

 

2 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Goblet of Fire is actually my favorite of the series score wise, but I often imagine what someone being 100% faithful to Williams could be like. And the first track definitely has me intrigued in the eventual directions this can take. Particularly in possible new motifs, since they would be eventually needed. Like to see where this goes!

 

Now, I take it some parts are taken from the first 3 scores? I can pick up on synth mock ups in spots, but others sound fairly "real" in a sense.

 

Very glad to hear this! New themes will definitely be introduced, and added to the theme catalogue for reference. 

In terms of existing scores vs. MIDI, we mixed in sections from the La-La Land collection throughout if we wanted to quote directly (or slightly modify tempo/pitch/additional orchestration as part of the new cues). Everything else that was written and orchestrated by Ben was then edited by Molly, adding rubato, dynamics, and reverb to blend with the recordings as much as possible and remove some of that aggressive MIDI unmusicality, in the hopes that the synth quality will not be too jarring while listening.

[pete 737]

Am I the only person who read the thread title and thought Williams had signed on to write more Potter music?

[Holko 8,228]

I really really really like the Voldemort/Hedwig counterpoint bit, great idea.

Sorry to be somewhat negative, but I really really really dislike how Face of Voldemort is just pasted in there and at 0:40 it sharply, significantly and unmistakeably accents... absolutely nothing onscreen. Holding off on the rest until we get to more interesting and juicy stuff than sneaking around to a low held note.

[Arpy 4,091]

I concur, I love the idea of this project, but as Holko mentions (the same part I picked up right away!) the theme's revelatory statement is prematurely given before the pan up to the statue which kind of deflates the power of the music in context of the picture. However this is my bias showing because I love how spine-tinglingly haunting Doyle's use of Hedwig's Theme is used in that opening that it's hard to picture it another way.

[Muad'Dib 1,665]

Love the Pettigrew quote. 

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

3 hours ago, Arpy said:

I concur, I love the idea of this project, but as Holko mentions (the same part I picked up right away!) the theme's revelatory statement is prematurely given before the pan up to the statue which kind of deflates the power of the music in context of the picture.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I heard it, and I have no recollection of how Doyle did it.

[Arpy 4,091]

It's a slow but ever mounting rise to a darker statement of Hedwig's Theme, signalling the dark turn within the Potter franchise. It's brilliant.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

Thanks for the feedback. We, of course, love Doyle's opening too. I totally understand what you mean regarding the sudden louder appearance of Face of Voldemort. Because this main title is different from others in that the camera is panning slowly and unveiling this scene, we had made the decision to play this uncut music over it that would provide the whole rendition of that Voldemort theme to establish the tone as more of Nagini and the graveyard are revealed (and thus bringing us back to Hedwig once the title does start to appear). It's also sort of modeled after how the opening of PoA unfolds, even though that Hedwig doesn't have any sudden jolts in it like you're talking about. 

 

Have no fear though! The entire score after this point will hopefully satisfy your need for lack of sudden bumps! We definitely wanted to avoid just copy/pasting, and moving forward from that establishing scene we've created a lot of new renditions of Williams' themes that we think fit well and will be "interesting and juicy." 

 

BP

[DoesJWhateHorns 3]

Very cool idea. Love it and can’t wait to see what else you come up with.

[Drew 564]

What, so you're saying the the project is already finished and the cues are just coming out in increments?

 

What sample libraries were used for this?

[GoodMusician 54]

what a fun project. I had at one point tried something very similar. But it was scoring Deathly Hallows after reading the book (this was before the film had even been announced as a two parter so well before it was made).

As I read it I had a STRONG idea of how the music SHOULD sound, HIGHLY influenced by Williams. I even wrote two new themes that I'd only begun to explore but never really did complete the project and then the film came out and it was... so vastly different... it wasn't really usable anymore.

Good luck on your work! I'm anxious to listen to more.

[Drew 564]

Someone actually did write a score to Deathly Hallows after the book came out. 

 

 

[GoodMusician 54]

yes, i do recall hearing that. I also remember there was something odd about it at the time but I dont' recall what it was... too much time has passed lol

[Molly Weasley 89]

 

21 minutes ago, GoodMusician said:

But it was scoring Deathly Hallows after reading the book

 

I've always said half-jokingly that JW scored the books. the tone fits perfectly even when the movies differ and there's little moments like unused Hogwarts Forever statements. Or in PoA when there's invisibility material in the Shrieking Shack. I know that's not the case but I would have loved to see him complete those character arcs with his themes. DH would have benefitted from the nostalgia and ties to the beginning that the book had. Well, all of them would.

[GoodMusician 54]

God... looking back, I wrote this stuff 10 years ago (posted on soundcloud 5 years ago)
 

 

[Edmilson 4,988]

Anyone else think Anthem of Evil is how Williams would write a theme for the Death Eaters? It's dark and evil (lol), but also regal, stately, alluding to the fact that many of the Death Eaters were from rich, powerful families from the Wizarding World?

[Arpy 4,091]

It seems like a theme he might use for Voldemort down the line, had he scored them. An extension and evolution of his theme from PS.

[TheUlyssesian 2,303]

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else think Anthem of Evil is how Williams would write a theme for the Death Eaters? It's dark and evil (lol), but also regal, stately, alluding to the fact that many of the Death Eaters were from rich, powerful families from the Wizarding World?

 

I actually thought of Knights of Ren theme for Death Eaters.

 

And the Wayfinder motif for the horcruxes.

 

And the trio theme for.... well, the trio!

 

And the victory theme for the order of the phoenix.

[Edmilson 4,988]

Nah, the Knights of Ren theme is too wild, too aleatoric, for the Death Eaters, and most of them are more "organized". Maybe a theme for the Snatchers who capture the trio by the end of Deathly Hallows 1...

 

I wonder what would a JW theme for Bellatrix Lestrange sound like... He has written few themes for female villains (Irina is the only one that comes to my mind), and maybe even less, if any, for completly psychopathic, chaotic evil ones. Most of the villains of the movies he scores don't have her cruel, psychopatic, agent of chaos-like personality, right?

 

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

 

11 hours ago, Drew said:

What, so you're saying the the project is already finished and the cues are just coming out in increments?

What sample libraries were used for this?

 

The project writing is finished, although the audio editing is still in progress. New cues will be posted every week and we will be writing notes for all of them! We've loved hearing your feedback and thoughts and hope that these can inspire more discussions, especially because basically everyone on this website has feelings about how it would have been if JW scored more.

We used super basic sample libraries from Finale 25's Garritan Instruments (as this is very much a home project currently). There are some spots we were able to use Kontakt keyboard patches for individual instruments, but that's it other than sections of existing score that could be included.

 

11 hours ago, GoodMusician said:

As I read it I had a STRONG idea of how the music SHOULD sound, HIGHLY influenced by Williams. I even wrote two new themes that I'd only begun to explore but never really did complete the project and then the film came out and it was... so vastly different... it wasn't really usable anymore.
Good luck on your work! I'm anxious to listen to more.

 

That's so cool! We were definitely also influenced by the books and creating continuity as a series, maintaining that emotional core that Williams established for the world. Glad you're interested in this installment!

 

10 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else think Anthem of Evil is how Williams would write a theme for the Death Eaters? It's dark and evil (lol), but also regal, stately, alluding to the fact that many of the Death Eaters were from rich, powerful families from the Wizarding World?

 

5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

And the trio theme for.... well, the trio!

And the victory theme for the order of the phoenix.

 

Definitely can see all of these TROS connections! So awesome - the scope of his Star Wars writing is absolute goals for Potter. We've had many a discussion about just that. And it'd be so cool to see the trio theme for this trio. Personally, I'd love to see Anthem of Evil over Sirius's death and building as Harry realizes what happened and chases down Bellatrix. It'd be so chilling. But I also love that idea of alluding to evil, rich, powerful families. 

MS

[Molly Weasley 89]

12 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

And the Wayfinder motif for the horcruxes

Wayfinders are DEFINITELY Horcruxes omg

[Once 551]

17 hours ago, GoodMusician said:

God... looking back, I wrote this stuff 10 years ago (posted on soundcloud 5 years ago)
 

 

You wrote this?! Wow, it brings back memories! I used to listen to these three cues a lot, especially "Dedalus, Dursleys and Dudley".

I had them in my iTunes archive (which I lost in 2012), but I couldn't remember where exactly I had downloaded them, and I've often wondered if the composer in question had scored the rest of the book. Very cool to re-listen to these.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

Update - Our next set of cues is posted!

Check out "Diggorys and Portkeys" and "The Quidditch World Cup."  You can also subscribe to weekly emails for the new cues. We'd love to discuss and hear what you all think - it was a lot of fun to pull from more nostalgic, whimsical JW material. Some new themes are introduced too!

Side note, this discussion is awesome, and reading books along with corresponding film scores is the way to go.

 

[Drew 564]

I would love to hear a Williams-style action cue for the Quidditch World Cup imagining if the film had included the actual game as an action sequence.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

8 minutes ago, Drew said:

I would love to hear a Williams-style action cue for the Quidditch World Cup imagining if the film had included the actual game as an action sequence.

Same here! Especially how he would have translated the childlike excitement into the larger Wizarding World. We were robbed by only having 3 Williams Quidditch matches, especially leaving off after year 3 which was so awesome.

MS

[TheUlyssesian 2,303]

11 minutes ago, Ravendor Studios said:

Update - Our next set of cues is posted!

Check out "Diggorys and Portkeys" and "The Quidditch World Cup."  You can also subscribe to weekly emails for the new cues. We'd love to discuss and hear what you all think - it was a lot of fun to pull from more nostalgic, whimsical JW material. Some new themes are introduced too!

Side note, this discussion is awesome, and reading books along with corresponding film scores is the way to go.

 

 

Fantastic. Love the rendition of the magic theme while walking through the camp and the Family theme for Harry entering the tent is a nice touch.

 

I think this is really driving home the fact that the thematic foundation of the first 3 films was so strong and continuing with the thematic material would have paid such rich dividends later on in the franchise. These themes could definitely grow up and mature with the characters. What a missed opportunity the film-makers had. Even if they could not get Williams, they should have kept his themes.

[GoodMusician 54]

17 hours ago, Once said:

You wrote this?! Wow, it brings back memories! I used to listen to these three cues a lot, especially "Dedalus, Dursleys and Dudley".

I had them in my iTunes archive (which I lost in 2012), but I couldn't remember where exactly I had downloaded them, and I've often wondered if the composer in question had scored the rest of the book. Very cool to re-listen to these.

aww! that's kind of you heh...

One of these days I may need to revive that project. I always enjoyed it. I dunno if I'd try to compose to the book like I had been or switch to the film...

and ooo! Next tracks!

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

20 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Fantastic. Love the rendition of the magic theme while walking through the camp and the Family theme for Harry entering the tent is a nice touch.

 

I think this is really driving home the fact that the thematic foundation of the first 3 films was so strong and continuing with the thematic material would have paid such rich dividends later on in the franchise. These themes could definitely grow up and mature with the characters. What a missed opportunity the film-makers had. Even if they could not get Williams, they should have kept his themes.

Thanks so much - that’s the exact standpoint we’re coming from! Not only that, but the foundation of these themes could provide more continuity and recall the emotional and coming-of-age aspects of the characters’ journeys. Those moments are so essential in the series - an example that stood out to us early on was Harry thinking of his parents for strength in the graveyard scene before facing Voldemort, and how heart wrenching it would be to quote the Family Theme for that moment in the movie. You’re so right that the growing and maturing themes could be really impactful, and in working on this, we followed a thematic plan throughout with that perspective.

MS

[GoodMusician 54]

Just listened through! I have to say I enjoyed alot of the expansions. I can hear how you honed in on how Williams would do things. I think the hard part with the films is that ideas like the Portkey, for example, should almost be more... magical? glorified? take a moment to exist outside of the film (ala diagon alley or aunt marge's waltz) those moments of pure magic and excitement. But the film kinda powers through it so you aren't left with much except a twirl and hurl lol I feel like that could have been a fun moment to create something separate but I also understand the confines on the film really prevent too much of that.

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

14 hours ago, GoodMusician said:

Just listened through! I have to say I enjoyed alot of the expansions. I can hear how you honed in on how Williams would do things. I think the hard part with the films is that ideas like the Portkey, for example, should almost be more... magical? glorified? take a moment to exist outside of the film (ala diagon alley or aunt marge's waltz) those moments of pure magic and excitement. But the film kinda powers through it so you aren't left with much except a twirl and hurl lol I feel like that could have been a fun moment to create something separate but I also understand the confines on the film really prevent too much of that.

 

Yes, there is a lot of care put into this to make sure it sounds like JW’s writing and not my own. In regards to your Portkey comment, a lot of the issues faced while scoring this movie had to do with pacing. The front of this movie is so quick that some things had to be set aside thematically just so the music could help the viewer breathe and digest the huge amount of rushed exposition happening over the opening 10-15 minutes of the film. For those Diagon Alley and Aunt Marge moments, the films they appear in took time at the beginning to introduce magical places, people, and events. In terms of more “magical” or “glorified” objects, I reserved revealing new themes until the introduction of the Triwizard Cup, since it’s the most important magical object in the film. Thanks for the comment and enjoy!

BP

[GoodMusician 54]

No worries! And I agree whole heartedly with your approach!

 

I actually am curious, have you discussed how did you all go about spotting this / breaking down when/where/what you covered and when? Did you rely on how the film had been scored for timing/styles or just start fresh?

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

17 hours ago, GoodMusician said:

I actually am curious, have you discussed how did you all go about spotting this / breaking down when/where/what you covered and when? Did you rely on how the film had been scored for timing/styles or just start fresh?

 

We started fresh! Ben spotted the movie on silent based on pacing, and we didn't consult Patrick Doyle's work (again, not wanting to replace it, but to make a Williams-based project). Before writing, we temped the movie with JW to establish a thematic and stylistic framework. Then we basically took the "what-if-JW-had-done-this" moments we were super excited about from planning, kept or adapted them, and planned the surrounding concepts. 

 

During the scoring process (Ben composing/Molly making cue sheets) we were able to designate where themes would be used throughout to create a cohesive vision. We also got a handle on which beats in the scenes should be emphasized, how the score could help unify some of those rushed sequences, and always discussed how the tone of each would fit into the bigger picture. We edited the cue timings a little as needed, and played through the score when it was done to make sure we liked the pacing and scope. But it was exciting to build from those ideas and helpful to have established plans for how we'd develop both old and new themes.

[A Farewell to Kings 3,805]

Did you consider scoring deleted scenes (if there are any...)? as you know sometimes scenes/shots get cut after scoring

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

11 hours ago, Fal J. M. Skywalker said:

Did you consider scoring deleted scenes (if there are any...)? as you know sometimes scenes/shots get cut after scoring

 

We mentioned it briefly when brainstorming the idea, but ultimately decided to start by tackling the official film and the narrative they went with there as our goal. Maybe once everything's done on this film we'll do them as bonus scenes. Because it would be fun, and definitely a chance to explore some things more!

 

MS

[redishere 697]

Just saw this thread! 
Really cool project, I'll follow this immediately  
Can't wait to hear how it all unfolds: the Chamber statement in the first cue gave me chills.
 

[Potter Scoring Project 501]

Glad to hear! That Chamber theme is too hauntingly good to be limited to the second movie.

Also, cues 4 and 5 are now posted. They're shorter ones this week but action-packed, and we were excited to use more Voldemort statements. Here's "Death Eater Attack" and "The Dark Mark."

Let us know what you think!

[GoodMusician 54]

thanks for sharing that one! i'm not sure what to say about the first part. It good but it didn't evoke Williams fully to me. Might take another listen. It almost sounds like something from a silent film, which is great! like the cue is technically more difficult and interesting!

 The 2nd one, I felt like although it made sense to come in at the conjuring of the dark mark, it might have needed a lead in? The rest was pretty spot on!