WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I guess this might be a bit redundant after the “most desired unreleased cue” thread. But what do you consider one of the most perplexing/frustrating omissions from a Williams OST? For example: If his goal in assembling an album is to provide an “experience” and take the listener on a sonic journey, why leave off a climactic cue like “ Broken Bridge/British Relief” on the original ‘84 Temple of Doom album? Thankfully it was officially released in 2008 on the concord release (that most people here still hate;) Or the original Return of the Jedi. Soundtrack album: There are a number of important cues that weren’t “redundant” to a listening experience. Why leave them off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,419 Posted November 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2020 Not having the film version of the Temple of Doom end credits on any official release still bugs me. JoeinAR, Brando, SingeMoisi and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Bellosh said: Not having the film version of the Temple of Doom end credits on any official release still bugs me. What's that on the Concorde?😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Ok, it's not a OST missing cue. But why is the "Cartoon Demonstration" missing on the LLL Jurrasic Park complete score presentation missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,515 Posted November 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2020 None exist. Jurassic Shark, mrbellamy, Unlucky Bastard and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Don't take the bait fellow fans. I'm begging you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 No bait, just answering the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 7 hours ago, WampaRat said: Or the original Return of the Jedi. Soundtrack album: There are a number of important cues that weren’t “redundant” to a listening experience. Why leave them off? ...and program instead a silly alien language song, a post main title musical sequence that leans heavily on a theme from the preceeding film, a hybrid concert version / suspense cue that doesn't do much musically, an action cue that was revised to lean heavily on past themes from the franchise, another cue that leans heavily on a new theme already well served by a concert track on the same album and finally another silly alien langauge song with giggling chipmunk voices (rather than the vastly superior version actually used in the film). Worst JW OST ever. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 5 hours ago, GerateWohl said: Ok, it's not a OST missing cue. But why is the "Cartoon Demonstration" missing on the LLL Jurrasic Park complete score presentation missing? You mean Stalling Around at the end of disc 2. GerateWohl and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The microedits at the end of Rescuing Sarah or Anakin's Dark Deeds, for mine. Mercifully, Mike saved us from the former and video games from the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Bad Dates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranders65 65 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 As King Mark already mentioned, too many to list, but to me the biggest glaring omission in JW Original Soundtrack history has to be The Helicopter Sequence from Superman. It's the first public appearance of the character in the movie, a huge rescue, and a musical highlight....and is nowhere to be found. Even as a 12 year old boy first getting the LP I remember wondering how the crap that cue was left off the soundtrack. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2020 '78 Superman - I can't believe he elected to omit the Helicopter cue! '81 Raiders - I can't believe he edited out 2 tiny sections from The Desert Chase, it sounds so awkward now! I can't believe he elected not to include to glorious rendition of the Raiders March when he's on top of the sub, yet the end credits arrangement is on here twice! '82 ET - Huh, the only music I remember from the film that's on here is the opening and the ending. Everything else is different! '83 Return of the Jedi - Where's Luke's fight with the Rancor? The death of Yoda? The fanfares for the start of the rebel briefing and the fleet going into Hyperspace later? That amazing choral piece during Luke and Vader's duel? The rest of the great space battle music and the great Endor action music? '84 Temple of Doom - Why is Mola Ram's theme only in one track? Where's the theme for the stones? Or any music from the Indian Village? Where's all the glorious action music when they're underground? Where's all the music from the climax of the movie? '87 Empire of the Sun - How could he omit the cue for the "bringing them back" scene? '91 Hook - Where's the rest of the Ultimate War, including the climax of the film? '93 Jurassic Park - Where's the history lesson or T-Rex chase cues? Why are they missing but the end credits is on here twice? '97 The Lost World - Where's the helicopter arrival music and the rest of the trailer scene music? '99 The Phantom Menace - Where are those amazing new force theme renditions - when Qui-Gon melts the door, when Anakin is freed, and when Anakin blows up the ship? Where is Qui-Gon's theme? Where's the glorious fanfare when Anakin wins the podrace? Or when he gets the engine working? '01 A.I. Artificial Intelligence - What the heck....!? Why is there only 1 track to represent the entire first act of the movie? Why is the Blue Fairy theme only in one track? Where's the rest of the music from their time in Rouge City? Or the cue for David talking to the specialist mecha? Why is some terrible song that wasn't even in the movie on here twice instead of all these important cues? '01 Harry Potter 1 - Why is Voldemort's Theme only in one track? Where's the amazing music for Hagrid's flashback, and the Olivander scene? The house selection, and the dungeon troll fight? The dark forest and Gryffindor winning the house cup? '02 Attack of the Clones - Where's the music for the actual Coruscant ambush, Anakin's near turn to the dark side, and all the music from the multiple lightsaber battle climax of the movie? '02 Minority Report - Where's the rest of the opening ball creation and Pre-Crime rescue? '02 Harry Potter 2 - Why does the chamber theme only appear in the concert arrangement - where are all the amazing variations used in actual film cues? '04 Harry Potter 3 - How could he have possibly elected to omit the rescue of Sirius from the end of the movie? Where's that great cue when Hedwig flies into the clock and the music transitions from Hedwig's Theme into the Past theme? Or any instance of the harpsichord motif? Or Harry's patronus training with Lupin? '04 The Terminal - Where's that great cue from the beginning of the movie? Why is so much music on here twice when the rest of the score that isn't here could have easily fit? '05 War of the Worlds - Why elect to put the film's narration on the album? Where's the music for when the aliens show up in the basement? '08 Crystal Skull - Where's the great music for the warehouse escape, the rest of the jungle chase, the waterfall drop, and the stepping stones? Or any variants of Henry's theme? Why is so much meandering underscore on this album instead of all those clear highlights? '12 Lincoln - How could he have possibly not elected to include that gorgeous Chris Martin solo trumpet version of With Malice Toward None? Why is so much music on here twice when there's plenty of music heard in the film that isn't here at all? '15 Force Awakens - Where's the music for when Hen first enters the Millennium Falcon cockpit? Or for Kylo with Vader's helmet? Where's the Resistance March variation from the battle on Maz's planet? The cue when they come out of lightspeed and land on the Starkiller planet? '17 Last Jedi - Where's the music for Admiral Holdo's introduction, and her later sacrifice? Where's Rey traveling to the ship, and the lightsaber training? '19 Rise of Skywalker - How could he possibly not include the opening Falcon chase cue? Or Rey training course cue? Or any of the cues that feature the new Kylo Ren theme including the spectacular final lightsaber duel against the Knights of Ren and the Emperor's Guards? And where's the brilliant Luke's theme variation for Lando's Dunkirk moment, the climax of the movie? Brando, Smaug The Iron, Brundlefly and 9 others 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 10 hours ago, GerateWohl said: Ok, it's not a OST missing cue. But why is the "Cartoon Demonstration" missing on the LLL Jurrasic Park complete score presentation missing? Disc 2, track 9. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,466 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 -Writing on the Wall, Petrified Justin, Quidditch Year 2, all from Chamber of Secrets; -Rescue of Sirius from Prisoner of Azkaban; -The complete Jungle Chase from KOTCS; -Holdo's Sacrifice from TLJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 So Williams is personally involved in the assemblies of his albums yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,666 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Jay said: '08 Crystal Skull - Where's the great music for the warehouse escape, the rest of the jungle chase, the waterfall drop, and the stepping stones? Or any variants of Henry's theme? Why is so much meandering underscore on this album instead of all those clear highlights? I think this album is the worst offender. Take an awesome score and reduce it to many, many of its weakest, most boring moments. Very weird, like Williams is almost embarrassed by his old school-styled cues. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Do you think he personally just doesn’t find the broader/thematic bits that interesting? Hence why Crystal Skull features more of the suspense/rumbling underscore than the outright adventurous moments? While perhaps hard to write and impressive in orchestration, they’re not that great to listen to. Odd considering he seems to be all about the listeners “experience.” It’s just such a head scratcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,466 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Thank goodness we have the bootleg, otherwise this score would have an even worst rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tom said: I think this album is the worst offender. Take an awesome score and reduce it to many, many of its weakest, most boring moments. Very weird, like Williams is almost embarrassed by his old school-styled cues. Maybe that's why I sold it ( kept the other three). Might give this another listen if expanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,358 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Isn't Holdo's Sacrifice in the credits track? I Am the Senate Home for the Twins insert Rescuing Sarah microedit Fortune and Glory (The Child Returns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 23 minutes ago, WampaRat said: So Williams is personally involved in the assemblies of his albums yeah? Just read a book SOUNDTRACK NATION that includes several composer interviews. All said they craft soundtrack albums for LISTENING- not comprehensive and chronological. In the case of JW , I think he just lacks objectivity . In his mind he is making the best listening experience within the time limit. And, in some cases what he thinks is COMMERCIAL. He is a professional after all. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The only thing I can think of offhand is the Phantom Menace cue where Anakin blows up the ship and escapes. Highlight of the whole score, IMO. For the most part, I'm pretty happy with his selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Just read a book SOUNDTRACK NATION that includes several composer interviews. All said they craft soundtrack albums for LISTENING- not comprehensive and chronological. In the case of JW , I think he just lacks objectivity . In his mind he is making the best listening experience within the time limit. And, in some cases what he thinks is COMMERCIAL. He is a professional after all. That’s what’s so odd about the choices on the KotCS. How does rumbling underscore have a ton of commercial value over overt thematic action cues? Ill have to check out that soundtrack Nation Book. Sounds cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The book is really for the fans. The author interviews many of them , including critics, along with professionals in ALL aspects of the business. Came out in 2010, so a.bit behind on some topics. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I mean the man has crafted over 100 albums for film scores he's composed, and in the thread there's been what, 20-25 mentioned as omitting a clear highlight. A lot of the times, he doesn't omit crucial highlights. But when he does, it is noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 He is also a very busy man. He may not always have enough time to refine his choices- or leaves it up to collaboration. If only he he would have consulted Jay. No-one knows highlights better than he!😍. Not even the man himself. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Well sometimes the entire score isn't finished recording yet, like with Hook bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 15 hours ago, WampaRat said: Or the original Return of the Jedi. Soundtrack album: There are a number of important cues that weren’t “redundant” to a listening experience. Why leave them off? Because they were limited to the length of a single LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Jay said: I mean the man has crafted over 100 albums for film scores he's composed, and in the thread there's been what, 20-25 mentioned as omitting a clear highlight. A lot of the times, he doesn't omit crucial highlights. But when he does, it is noticeable. True. And maybe in the case of Crystal Skull, he just wanted to try something a little different. He’s produced so many action/adventure scores. Perhaps he wanted to present a more spooky/mysterious Indy score with less focus on the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, mstrox said: The only thing I can think of offhand is the Phantom Menace cue where Anakin blows up the ship and escapes. Highlight of the whole score, IMO. For the most part, I'm pretty happy with his selections. And the short celebratory cue at the end of the podrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I've always thought that he just felt the KotCS underscore cues were more interesting than most of us think they are. I'm guessing that most composers will never judge their own music as boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 7 hours ago, JTWfan77 said: an action cue that was revised to lean heavily on past themes from the franchise Which one would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Which one would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Which one would that be? The one titled after the movie of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: The one titled after the movie of course But do we have an alternate for that? 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: But do we have an alternate for that? Yes Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: But do we have an alternate for that? You're serious? Joking? I have nothing against the revised cue itself, it's fantastic, but I'd much rather have pined for it's release for years and had the far more original pre-revision cue on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: You're serious? Joking? Oh, that's the track I'm used to refer to as Sail Barge Assault Alternate. I only got the original OST quite recently, so it's the SE names that's stuck in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The three album arrangements didn't help the cause... 20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Because they were limited to the length of a single LP. You are not allowed to say such things here😒. 'Ever cue in chronological order!!"" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Oh, that's the tracks I'm used to refer to as Sail Barge Assault and Sail Barge Assault Alternate. I only got the original OST quite recently, so it's the SE names that's stuck in my mind. Wait, you never had the Anthology?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: Wait, you never had the Anthology?? I do now, but got it only a few years ago. The SEs were my first SW albums, except for Gerhardt's Empire, which was my very first. Seriously though, I haven't listened to Jedi in several years. I'm rectifying that now. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted November 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2020 The only good takeaway from digital become the new standard is that hopefully one day the concept of limiting albums to 80 minutes will be abandoned. For almost an entire century film albums have been condensed strictly because more music couldn't fit on one or two LP's (and later CD's), and it's become so commonplace that some people have simply become complacent and even go so far as to defend this unnecessary tradition (sorry @Thor ) bruce marshall, TSMefford, enderdrag64 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: '78 Superman - I can't believe he elected to omit the Helicopter cue! '81 Raiders - I can't believe he edited out 2 tiny sections from The Desert Chase, it sounds so awkward now! I can't believe he elected not to include to glorious rendition of the Raiders March when he's on top of the sub, yet the end credits arrangement is on here twice! '82 ET - Huh, the only music I remember from the film that's on here is the opening and the ending. Everything else is different! '83 Return of the Jedi - Where's Luke's fight with the Rancor? The death of Yoda? The fanfares for the start of the rebel briefing and the fleet going into Hyperspace later? That amazing choral piece during Luke and Vader's duel? The rest of the great space battle music and the great Endor action music? '84 Temple of Doom - Why is Mola Ram's theme only in one track? Where's the theme for the stones? Or any music from the Indian Village? Where's all the glorious action music when they're underground? Where's all the music from the climax of the movie? '87 Empire of the Sun - How could he omit the cue for the "bringing them back" scene? '91 Hook - Where's the rest of the Ultimate War, including the climax of the film? '93 Jurassic Park - Where's the history lesson or T-Rex chase cues? Why are they missing but the end credits is on here twice? '97 The Lost World - Where's the helicopter arrival music and the rest of the trailer scene music? '99 The Phantom Menace - Where are those amazing new force theme renditions - when Qui-Gon melts the door, when Anakin is freed, and when Anakin blows up the ship? Where is Qui-Gon's theme? Where's the glorious fanfare when Anakin wins the podrace? Or when he gets the engine working? '01 A.I. Artificial Intelligence - What the heck....!? Why is there only 1 track to represent the entire first act of the movie? Why is the Blue Fairy theme only in one track? Where's the rest of the music from their time in Rouge City? Or the cue for David talking to the specialist mecha? Why is some terrible song that wasn't even in the movie on here twice instead of all these important cues? '01 Harry Potter 1 - Why is Voldemort's Theme only in one track? Where's the amazing music for Hagrid's flashback, and the Olivander scene? The house selection, and the dungeon troll fight? The dark forest and Gryffindor winning the house cup? '02 Attack of the Clones - Where's the music for the actual Coruscant ambush, Anakin's near turn to the dark side, and all the music from the multiple lightsaber battle climax of the movie? '02 Minority Report - Where's the rest of the opening ball creation and Pre-Crime rescue? '02 Harry Potter 2 - Why does the chamber theme only appear in the concert arrangement - where are all the amazing variations used in actual film cues? '04 Harry Potter 3 - How could he have possibly elected to omit the rescue of Sirius from the end of the movie? Where's that great cue when Hedwig flies into the clock and the music transitions from Hedwig's Theme into the Past theme? Or any instance of the harpsichord motif? Or Harry's patronus training with Lupin? '04 The Terminal - Where's that great cue from the beginning of the movie? Why is so much music on here twice when the rest of the score that isn't here could have easily fit? '05 War of the Worlds - Why elect to put the film's narration on the album? Where's the music for when the aliens show up in the basement? '08 Crystal Skull - Where's the great music for the warehouse escape, the rest of the jungle chase, the waterfall drop, and the stepping stones? Or any variants of Henry's theme? Why is so much meandering underscore on this album instead of all those clear highlights? '12 Lincoln - How could he have possibly not elected to include that gorgeous Chris Martin solo trumpet version of With Malice Toward None? Why is so much music on here twice when there's plenty of music heard in the film that isn't here at all? '15 Force Awakens - Where's the music for when Hen first enters the Millennium Falcon cockpit? Or for Kylo with Vader's helmet? Where's the Resistance March variation from the battle on Maz's planet? The cue when they come out of lightspeed and land on the Starkiller planet? '17 Last Jedi - Where's the music for Admiral Holdo's introduction, and her later sacrifice? Where's Rey traveling to the ship, and the lightsaber training? '19 Rise of Skywalker - Where the opening Falcon chase scene? Why is the amazing new theme for Kylo redeemed not on the album at all? How could he possibly elect to omit the amazing dual lightsaber battle with Rey and Kylo against the Knights of Ren and the Emperor's guards? Glad you made the post I didn't feel like writing! oh and Lando Arrives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 And Rey's Training... One of the best variantions of Rey's theme in the whole sequel trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Two more to add: "The North Star" from The Patriot and "Grave Trampling" from Dracula (and all the other cues that use that theme, totally absent from the Dracula OST.) Most perplexing for me is still the excision of the best part of "It Can't Be" from ROTS. Baffling. crumbs and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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