Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

[Bellosh 3,419]

20 hours ago, crumbs said:

Isn't the film version just a microedited version of the OST track? It's missing the biggest statement of Helena's Theme.

 

 

it does seem microedited, but the way it's edited makes it sound so much better, and it sounds more romantic.

 

im sure the film clip will be uploaded in the coming weeks, unless @Manakin Skywalker wants to try to rip the music. obviously you don't have to.

 

the part in the film I'm referencing is 54:26-54:30 (when Helena covers the dial with her red outfit in her luggage)

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

26 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

unless @Manakin Skywalker wants to try to rip the music.

 

 

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

 

 

i fucking love you. i will go and like every one of your posts so you randomly win a day.

 

also ----- that BIT is different from the OST right?!  I've had a fever the past few days but I'm not going insane am i?!?!

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

That’s completely different lol

[Bellosh 3,419]

it sounds so good!  if thats a microedit, then it's a godly one.

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Anyone notice a Close Encounters-y quote when Sallah rescues Indy? 

[Bellosh 3,419]

4 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

Anyone notice a Close Encounters-y quote when Sallah rescues Indy? 

 

YES!

 

i totally forgot about that the first time I saw it!  it sounds like the beginning to his theme that doesn't exist!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

i fucking love you. i will go and like every one of your posts so you randomly win a day.

 

I logged on just now and was like "WTF is going on here?!" 

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

22 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

I logged on just now and was like "WTF is going on here?!" 

 

 

the least i could do

 

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

the little clips of unreleased music sound ok. i hope someone is going to share a fan edit because I have a feeling that's the only thing we'll have for the next 20 years

[crumbs 14,318]

So the first cue in New York 1969 ("For Who... Whom?") is indeed pitch-shifted upwards compared to the film version. Look at that frequency line.

 

 

On 29/08/2023 at 9:58 PM, LB Makes Stuff said:

It’s indeed in that scene, but the line is actually “For who?”

also, the music is pitched down for that scene compared to the album version.

 

Good catch @LB Makes Stuff, you noticed this yesterday and the spectograms confirmed it.

 

My hunch is the OST version was pitch-shifted upwards so it crossfaded smoothly into Marion's Theme.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

So the first cue in New York 1969 ("For Who... Whom?") is indeed pitch-shifted upwards compared to the film version. Look at that frequency line.

 

 

 

Good catch @LB Makes Stuff, you noticed this yesterday and the spectograms confirmed it.

 

My hunch is the OST version was pitch-shifted upwards so it crossfaded smoothly into Marion's Theme.

 

I noticed the same thing with the very ending of Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique. The ending is completely fake on the album, likely taken from another cue and pitch-shifted down several semitones. 

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

 

6 minutes ago, crumbs said:

My hunch is the OST version was pitch-shifted upwards so it crossfaded smoothly into Marion's Theme.

Ooo yeah that makes a lot of sense!

[crumbs 14,318]

2 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

I noticed the same thing with the very ending of Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique. The ending is completely fake on the album, likely taken from another cue and pitch-shifted down several semitones. 

 

So a repeat of what he did to Approaching the Throne on the TROS OST (appended with the final section of Falcon Flight).

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Oh side note:

is the whole “AIN’T 1939” moment verbatim the Dynamite part of “Polybius Cypher” or not? It sounds the same to me other than it being a separate recording. (Any chances of ripping that?)

[crumbs 14,318]

The ending of Centuries Join Hands (when Indy gets punched) is very much revised in the film. You can actually hear where the OST version crossfades into the revised version (called "Patch 1" in the cue list).

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

18 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

Oh side note:

is the whole “AIN’T 1939” moment verbatim the Dynamite part of “Polybius Cypher” or not? It sounds the same to me other than it being a separate recording. (Any chances of ripping that?)

 

No, not quite. This is a very strange one. The orchestration is almost completely identical, but the orchestra is playing much louder. The horns are being played very softly during that section in Polybius Cypher, however in the other scene the horns in particular are playing much louder (and no, it's not just a mixing difference; those horns are being played much more forcefully).

 

So either he just reused the sheet music for that section, or they tracked in an alternate take. I'm guessing the former.

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

That’s kind of what I was meaning, but I didn’t type it out right I guess. But yeah, I could tell on my second viewing that it definitely sounded vaguely familiar.

 

sorry for the edits, things got merged and stupid

[Faleel 5,359]

26 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

So a repeat of what he did to Approaching the Throne on the TROS OST (appended with the final section of Falcon Flight).

Isn't there some cues on the AOTC OST that also does this?

[crumbs 14,318]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

I noticed the same thing with the very ending of Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique. The ending is completely fake on the album, likely taken from another cue and pitch-shifted down several semitones. 

 

Spectograms confirm this, which is bizarre because the film ending sounds basically the same.

 

Maybe to improve flow into the following track? I dunno.

[enderdrag64 624]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

So the first cue in New York 1969 ("For Who... Whom?") is indeed pitch-shifted upwards compared to the film version. Look at that frequency line.

 

 

Woah! That's definitely a huge advantage of high-res audio that I've never realized before, even with 48kz audio that would have been completely unapparent. Even if you can't hear the upper frequencies you can still learn things from them!

[crumbs 14,318]

1 hour ago, enderdrag64 said:

Even if you can't hear the upper frequencies you can still learn things from them!

 

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 30/08/2023 at 7:40 AM, Dr. Know said:

Let’s get the full end credits ripped, please!

 

 

[oierem 152]

5 hours ago, Signals said:

Isn't there some cues on the AOTC OST that also does this?

 

Yes, "Love Pledge and The Arena" has a manufactured ending using the end of "Arrival at Kamino".

[Chewy 2,394]

Voller Returns also has a pitch shifted ending:

 

 

On 30/08/2023 at 8:25 PM, Jay said:

The FYC album has arrived:

 

https://debut.disney.com/fyc/twds/movie/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-1687388228406?tab=music

 

01 - Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:58
02 - Helena's Theme 3:30
03 - Germany 1944 4:42
04 - To Morocco 3:21
05 - Voller Returns 3:06
06 - Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique 2:58
07 - Tuk Tuk in Tangiers 2:29
08 - To Athens 2:17
09 - Perils of the Deep 2:31
10 - Water Ballet 2:29
11 - Polybius Cipher 2:29
12 - The Grafikos 1:59
13 - Archemedes Tomb 1:59
14 - The Airport 1:59
15 - Battle of Syracuse 1:59
16 - Centuries Joins Hands 1:29
17 - New York 1969 1:29
18 - Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra) 1:29

 

 

The FYC files being fixed, I've been able to analyze each track and I can confirm that this is exactly the same master as the album.

 

The only exclusivity of that FYC is that it is presented in high resolution (24bit 96KHz), a format that Disney Records doesn't sell or stream, for some reason.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

I thought this sounded familiar! Funny how after all these years the only way we're getting unreleased Star Wars music is via temp-tracked cues in other films. 

 

 

 

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

And in good quality too!

[Faleel 5,359]

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I thought this sounded familiar! Funny how after all these years the only way we're getting unreleased Star Wars music is via temp-tracked cues in other films. 

 

Too bad (not really) it's not an exact match, and not one of the cues we don't have clean

[Edmilson 7,470]

3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I thought this sounded familiar! Funny how after all these years the only way we're getting unreleased Star Wars music is via temp-tracked cues in other films. 

 

It's so sad to think that music editors in Hollywood have access to all the unreleased Star Wars music that exists in good quality, but not us the fans. 

[Cameron1138 33]

On 30/08/2023 at 2:25 PM, Jay said:

The FYC album has arrived:

 

https://debut.disney.com/fyc/twds/movie/indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-1687388228406?tab=music

 

01 - Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:58
02 - Helena's Theme 3:30
03 - Germany 1944 4:42
04 - To Morocco 3:21
05 - Voller Returns 3:06
06 - Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique 2:58
07 - Tuk Tuk in Tangiers 2:29
08 - To Athens 2:17
09 - Perils of the Deep 2:31
10 - Water Ballet 2:29
11 - Polybius Cipher 2:29
12 - The Grafikos 1:59
13 - Archemedes Tomb 1:59
14 - The Airport 1:59
15 - Battle of Syracuse 1:59
16 - Centuries Joins Hands 1:29
17 - New York 1969 1:29
18 - Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra) 1:29

 

Well... fuck. After the isolated score didn't pan out this was my last hope that I'd be able to have a DoD album that's if not complete, at least comparable to the other Indy scores in my collection in terms of runtime and how much of the story they cover. I don't need 100% completeness, but I just can't stand the entire first act of the movie only being represented by 4 or 5 tracks. I guess now there's nothing left to do but pray that the dry spell in recording session leaks finally ends soon... have there been any new leaks at all since early covid?

 

(And yes, I'd been lurking in the DoD threads for a while and I did make an account here just to express my disappointment about the FYC.)

[Brando 1,864]

10 minutes ago, Cameron1138 said:

I don't need 100% completeness

[Cameron1138 33]

17 minutes ago, Brando said:

I do still prefer it, of course. 

[Edmilson 7,470]

20 minutes ago, Cameron1138 said:

have there been any new leaks at all since early covid?

Unfortunately for us, I think Hollywood has become much better in preventing leaks over the past few years than they used to be.

 

The only post-2019 blockbuster movie I remember having its sessions leaked was Giacchino's Far from Home. Other than that, nothing, especially compared with the previous years, when almost everything used to leak one way or another.

 

Also, in recent times they tried to fight the leaks by actually releasing longer and almost complete albums (like Balfe's M: I 7, McCreary's Rings of Power or the recent One Piece score). Too bad that Williams' mindset is still stuck in the 90s and the need to curate everything.

[Jay 37,372]

OK I got through the whole film.

 

I found that there's 1:55:20 of score in the film, which runs 2:34:34.  So that's ~75% of the film scored with original music!

 

Of course, about 2:30 of that is Bill Ross's "Pulse of the City" cue.  And then, there is tracking in the film, too, so that number doesn't represent unique Williams score heard.

 

The only tracking I'm sure about currently is the four spots that the GEMA list easily reveals (because it lists the cues in the order that they first appear, if a cue intended for later in the film apepars earlier through tracking, it stands out in the list).

 

1 - "Helena's Tutorial" is heard in the scene where she follows Indy into the bar (0:27:05-0:27:43) and ends up being the first appearance of her theme in the film.  But this cue was written for the scene where she is translating for Voller with the dynamite in her pocket, and appears again where intended then.

 

2 - A piece of "Voller's Interview" is stretched out and tracked into the opening (0:28:22-0:28:41) of the first scene with Voller in his hotel room (with the room service guy), but it was written for his later scene where he's being interviewed and appears again there (unstretched).

 

3 - Part of "Centipedes" is tracked into the "Eels" scene.  I haven't figured out the timestamp yet (Eels in general is 1:21:46-1:23:32)

 

4 - "Teddy Is Kidnapped" (which runs 1:39:10-1:41:55 overall) has two bits replaced by tracked music.  First, a short section of "To The Airport (Patch 2)" is heard somewhere (don't have the timestamp handy), and then when they steal the wedding car, 34 seconds of "Helena In Action" is tracked in from 1:40:26-1:41:00.  This is an interesting one, because the title could imply its a "wild" recording of her theme in action mode.  It doesn't appear anywhere else in the film, but Williams put it at the end of the "Tuk Tuk In Tangiers" OST track, where it's almost twice as long as this film use.

 

Has anybody noticed any other tracking in the film?  I'm talking specifically about Indy5 music being tracked, not temp-track re-records which is a whole other topic...

 

Anyways, a simple cue list, for the cues used in the film, without the inserts and patches list, just the "main" cues, in order, goes like this:

1. American Spy
2. Bombs Away!
3. Indy Driver
4. It's a Fake
5. Indy Rescues Baz
6. Combat Train-ing
7. Jump
   (If a cue for Helena following Indy on the street was recorded, it'd be here)
8. Nazis
9. I'm Not Selling This, Am I?
10. The Archives
11. Helena Runs!
12. Pulse of the City
13. Voller's Interview
14. Sallah to the Rescue
15. Departures
16. It Must Be Destroyed
17. Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt
18. Doing Helena's Bidding
19. Rossini's Menu
20. Rahim Arrives
21. You Don't Need Me?
22. Streets of Morocco
23. Tuk Tuk Chase
24. Airplane Mutiny
25. To Athens
26. Sunken Ship
27. Indy's Regret
28. Eels!
29. Water Ballet
30. Polybius Cipher
31. Escaping the Boat
32. Melting Wax
33. Teddy is Kidnapped
34. The Crescent
35. Centipedes
36. Handcuffed
37. Archimedes' Tomb
38. Confrontation at the Tomb
39. To the Airport
40. Airport Nazis
41. Through the Portal
42. Ancient Syracuse
43. Centuries Join Hands
44. For Who...Whom?
45. Finale
46. Raider's March
47. Helena's Theme
48. End Credits Part 3

Sorting out which patch and version is which will take a lot of time, and not all is capable of being figured out, but a list of all the patches/inserts/versions used in the film would look like this:

1. American Spy (orig, Patch 1, V2, V2 Patch 2)
2. Bombs Away! (orig, V2)
3. Indy Driver (orig, Part 1 V2, Part 2)
4. It's a Fake (V2, V2 Patch 1)
5. Indy Rescues Baz (V2)
6. Combat Train-ing (V3, V3 Patch 1)
7. Jump (V2)
   (If a cue for Helena following Indy on the street was recorded, it'd be here)
8. Nazis
9. I'm Not Selling This, Am I?
10. The Archives
11. Helena Runs!
12. Pulse of the City
13. Voller's Interview
14. Sallah to the Rescue
15. Departures
16. It Must Be Destroyed (orig, To Morocco Again)
17. Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt
18. Doing Helena's Bidding
19. Rossini's Menu
20. Rahim Arrives
21. You Don't Need Me?
22. Streets of Morocco
23. Tuk Tuk Chase (orig, Patch 1 Rev, Patch 2, Patch 4)
24. Airplane Mutiny
25. To Athens (orig, Patch 1)
26. Sunken Ship
27. Indy's Regret
28. Eels!
29. Water Ballet
30. Polybius Cipher (Helena's Tutorial)
31. Escaping the Boat (orig, Patch 1)
32. Melting Wax (orig, Insert)
33. Teddy is Kidnapped
34. The Crescent
35. Centipedes
36. Handcuffed
37. Archimedes' Tomb
38. Confrontation at the Tomb
39. To the Airport (orig, Part 1 Patch, Patch 2, Part 2)
40. Airport Nazis (orig, Patch 1, Patch 3, Patch 4, Patch 5)
41. Through the Portal
42. Ancient Syracuse (Version 3, Planes In Trouble Insert)
43. Centuries Join Hands (orig, Patch 1)
44. For Who...Whom?
45. Finale (orig, Patch 1)
46. Raider's March (JR Edit)
47. Helena's Theme (Rev, Rev 2)
48. End Credits Part 3

Now lining up the OST album with the right cue names wasn't terribly hard, but there are some spots I couldn't identify.  Anybody recognize these bits?

• 1 Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny [0:00-1:08] (1:08) - Not in the film, but is it an unused cue or an album recording?
• 8 To Athens [0:00-1:09] (1:09) - this was a surprising one!  Not sure what it could be for
• 9 Perils of the Deep [0:00-0:35] (0:35) - I think I recognize this but can't place it....

   

Until those bits are identified, this is the best I can do breaking down the OST album:
 

01 Prologue To Indiana Jones And The Dial Of Destiny (6:00)

1. 0:00-1:08 (1:08) = not in film and could have been recorded just for the album
2. 1:08-end (4:52) = End Credits Part 3

02 Helena’s Theme (3:30)

1. 0:00-?:??    ?:??    Helena's Theme Rev 2
2. ?:??-end    ?:??    Helena's Theme Rev

03 Germany, 1944 (4:42)

1. 0:00-2:19    2:19    Indy Driver
2. 2:19-3:00    0:41    It's a Fake
3. 3:00-3:22    0:22    Indy Rescues Baz
4. 3:22-3:48    0:24    Combat Train-ing
5. 3:48-end    0:54    Jump

04 To Morocco (3:21)

1. 0:00-1:11    1:11    Departures
2. 1:11-end    2:10    It Must Be Destroyed

05 Voller Returns (3:06)

1. 0:00-1:17    1:17    The Archives
2. 1:17-2:36    1:19    Voller's Interview
3. 2:36-end    0:30    Nazis

06 Auction At Hotel L’Atlantique (2:58)

1. 0:00-0:19    0:19    Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt
2. 0:19-1:37    1:18    Doing Helena's Bidding
3. 1:37-end    1:21    Rossini's Menu

07 Tuk Tuk In Tangiers (3:35)

1. 0:00-2:28    2:28    Streets of Morocco
2. 2:28-end    0:37    Helena in Action

08 To Athens (2:17)

1. 0:00-1:09    1:09    unidentified
2. 1:09-end    1:08    To Athens

09 Perils Of The Deep (2:31)

1. 0:00-0:35    0:35    unidentified
2. 0:35-1:35    1:00    Sunken Ship
3. 1:35-end    0:56    Indy's Regret

10 Water Ballet (4:53)

1. 0:00-0:56    0:56    Eels!
2. 0:56-end    3:57    Water Ballet

11 Polybius Cypher (2:39)

1. 0:00-0:38    0:38    Helena's Tutorial
2. 0:38-1:59    1:21    Polybius Cipher
3. 1:59-end    0:40    Escaping the Boat

12 The Grafikos (4:39)

1. 0:00-2:05    2:05    Melting Wax
2. 2:05-end    2:34    Centipedes

13 Archimedes’ Tomb (3:01)

• Archimedes' Tomb

14 The Airport (4:46)

1. 0:00-0:53    0:53    To the Airport
2. 0:53-end    3:53    Airport Nazis

15 Battle Of Syracuse (2:50)

• Ancient Syracuse

16 Centuries Join Hands (3:02)

• Centuries Join Hands

17 New York, 1969 (4:17)

1. 0:00-0:47    0:47    For Who...Whom? [pitch-shifted]
2. 0:47-2:19    1:32    Finale
3. 2:19-end    1:58    Raider's March

18 Helena’s Theme (For Violin And Orchestra) (4:59)

• not in film but probably recorded under this name

 

Again this list only sticks to the "main" cues, I haven't attempted to figure out patches/inserts/version stuff yet.

 

[Amer 2,111]

Great Job!

[CGCJ 394]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Now lining up the OST album with the right cue names wasn't terribly hard, but there are 6 spots I couldn't identify.  Anybody recognize these bits?

02:08-02:20 of Germany, 1944 is used at 08:40 when Indy climbs onto the train.

04:05-End of The Grafikos is used at 01:47:59 as Indy & Helena slide down after completing the water displacment puzzle.

[Jay 37,372]

On 01/09/2023 at 8:47 AM, CGCJ said:

02:08-02:20 of Germany, 1944 is used at 08:40 when Indy climbs onto the train.

 

Thanks, I'll check it out! 

 

On 01/09/2023 at 8:47 AM, CGCJ said:

04:05-End of The Grafikos is used at 01:47:59 as Indy & Helena slide down after completing the water displacment puzzle.

 

Yeah, I already cleaned that up. 

[Martinland 360]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

OK I got through the whole film.

Well, impressive minutiae...

 

...but did you enjoy the movie, Jay?

 

I (and my father and the woman in my life) sure did ... went thrice, that was enough though.

[Jay 37,372]

Nope

[Martinland 360]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Nope

OK, fair enough.

 

On another note:

 

Too bad we didn't meet in Milano at the infamous Hyatt Hotel bar...

 

[Jay 37,372]

That whole night after the wonderful concert was so frustrating. It should have been easy for all of us to have gotten together in one place. So bummed it was split into two groups

[Edmilson 7,470]

How many minutes of unreleased score can we estimate? The OST is 67 minutes, but if we take the ASM version of Helena's Theme out, then that's 62 min of movie cues (that is, considering track 02 is on the end credits, I think?).

 

Of course, there's the alternates, film versions or unknown bits that are in the OST but not the movie, but even taking them into account, that means about half of the music in the movie, I think?

[mrbellamy 6,288]

Haven't been keeping up but so do we have any idea how Ross ended up writing "Pulse of the City"? 

[Jay 37,372]

Nope. 

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Haven't been keeping up but so do we have any idea how Ross ended up writing "Pulse of the City"? 

I’m thinking that there wasn’t any music originally planned for that scene, but everyone changed their minds last minute and JW just decided to hand it off to Ross. No scandals or plot twists or anything like that.

[Edmilson 7,470]

On 01/09/2023 at 1:59 AM, Jay said:

01 Prologue To Indiana Jones And The Dial Of Destiny (6:00)

1. 0:00-1:08 (1:08) = unidentified (not in film)

I imagine Williams wanted track 01 to function like an overture to the score, so he recorded this little 1 minute piece featuring Helena's Theme to function as an opening to the overture.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

9 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

I’m thinking that there wasn’t any music originally planned for that scene, but everyone changed their minds last minute and JW just decided to hand it off to Ross. No scandals or plot twists or anything like that.

 

Or maybe the intercutting with source music was fixed early on and Williams wasn't interested in incorporating that into his cue and didn't want to write something that was destined to be completely cut all over either.

[crumbs 14,318]

Yet even though it sounds like the score stops and starts, if you listen to the rear channels it's actually scored from start to finish (and continues through the source music, albeit very low in the mix).

 

There's echoes of this writing in a later cue, Airplane Mutiny (which actually takes place on a helicopter... silly JW). The piano riff in both cues is almost identical; makes me wonder if JW handed that off to Ross as the template for POTC.

[Cameron1138 33]

On 31/08/2023 at 9:01 PM, Edmilson said:

The only post-2019 blockbuster movie I remember having its sessions leaked was Giacchino's Far from Home. Other than that, nothing, especially compared with the previous years, when almost everything used to leak one way or another.

 

Also, in recent times they tried to fight the leaks by actually releasing longer and almost complete albums (like Balfe's M: I 7, McCreary's Rings of Power or the recent One Piece score). Too bad that Williams' mindset is still stuck in the 90s and the need to curate everything.

I did just remember that the Wonder Woman 84 recording sessions leaked right after the movie came out, so I think that's the most recent example of it happening (or at least the most recent movie, I think FFH leaked more recently). But yeah, an official expanded release is probably our best chance now, which is pretty depressing (but there is some hope given that his Harry Potter scores got that LLLCD release recently, and while HP is definitely the bigger franchise overall I'd say IJ is more iconic in the music department).

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Guys, could “Pulse of the city” be a source music instrumental song? It is under “songs” in the end credits. Do they usually credit additional composer’s film cues there? 
 

and it’s name really evokes a source music composition like jazz or something.

 

is there anything in the background of the new york bar where helena and indy take a whiskey?