James Horner's WINDTALKERS (2002) - NEW! 2023 3-CD Intrada Records

[Jay 37,548]

Intrada has the last word on this one. Coming August 8.

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=151837&forumID=1&archive=0

 

 

[Bespin 8,508]

It seems that I'll get that one too!

 

James Southall's review here --> http://www.movie-wave.net/windtalkers/

[Jay 37,548]

There's an interesting post in that FSM thread that explains why the OST album is the way it is:

 

The OST is an unspeakably horrible release. There were all kinds of delays and stoppages in production on the movie and the sessions for the second half were long after the first because of the production woes. The OST that was released was basically just the slow suspense music from the first half with all but a few snippets of the action music missing. At the time it was received as low key, generic, and boring. But that's just because the music that was released was just that from a specific subset of the sessions covering the music that is, by its nature, less interesting. I fully expect this expansion is going to cause people to seriously reevaluate this as a score and highly suggest people go in with an open mind and not use the OST to judge it.

[Brónach 1,303]

interesting

[crocodile 8,093]

Oh cool. Looking forward to this. 

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,782]

Interesting to know, although I don't remember the album coming across as all 'underscory', just not really my thing. Sometimes JNH's JH's extended melodramatic 9-minute explorations are interesting (Deep Impact), but very often they just meander. I think this is one of those cases for me.

[A. A. Ron 1,750]

JNH’s 9 minute explorations?

[Stark 342]

If the album really is that terrible maybe I spoke too soon with my apathy in the other thread!

[Edmilson 7,649]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Sometimes JNH's extended melodramatic 9-minute explorations are interesting (Deep Impact), but very often they just meander. I think this is one of those cases for me.

I didn't know JNH recorded a score for Deep Impact! Is it as good as Horner's score for the same movie? 

[Richard Penna 3,782]

I'm way more used to mentioning JNH than Horner 

[1977 1,743]

Wow, if that's what Windtalkers sounds like I will need to get this. I have the album but never got around to listening to it, nor have I seen the film despite owning the DVD. I always expected this to be more synthy and sound designy.

[crocodile 8,093]

46 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Wow, if that's what Windtalkers sounds like I will need to get this. I have the album but never got around to listening to it, nor have I seen the film despite owning the DVD. I always expected this to be more synthy and sound designy.

Well, the first half of the trailer is not on the album. The melody you hear is the main theme. That segment is on the album. This is two of my favourite tracks from the old disc. And, yes, while not the most striking Horner it is definitely orchestral all the way through.

 

 

 

Karol 

 

 

 

[pete 910]

I clicked on the video and thought "What the hell is that first piece of music... and why is it playing in an ad for the Windtalkers score?

[DangerMotif 1,038]

What score’s better, this or Gorky Park?

[crocodile 8,093]

They are nothing alike! It's like doing a Angela's Ashes vs. The Phantom Menace poll!

 

In Horner’s body of work, Gorky Park might be a more interesting entry but that doesn't mean you'll enjoy it more.

 

Karol

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,445]

Really looking forward to this score. I always thought the album wasn't doing justice to Horner's work. I wonder though why it needs 3 CD (perhaps an alternate album presentation of the composer like featured on Apollo 13)

[GerateWohl 4,497]

Seems the guy playing the snare drum has a lot of work in this score.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,734]

5 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

What score’s better, this or Gorky Park?

 

Are you kidding?!

GORKY PARK stamps all over any Horner score, since 1986.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,445]

What about Apollo 13, Balto, Casper, TASM and Living in the Age of Airplanes, those are among the best scores ever

[Naïve Old Fart 9,734]

I wholeheartedly agree, my friend, but I like none of them as much as I love GORKY PARK 

[Jay 37,548]

9 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

What score’s better, this or Gorky Park?

 

If you're asking because you currently have a small Horner collection and are looking to grow it, there's probably 20 Horner specialty label titles I'd recommend before either Windtalkers or Gorky Park.

 

If you already have a decent Horner collection and just don't know either of these scores at all, you're in luck!  Gorky Park's OST album is free on any streaming site, and someone put the Windtalkers OST on youtube

 

 

 

 

So you can listen to those to see if you feel like you want to own expansions of them.   But note that for Windtalkers, it appears the OST album only had music from half the film, so the new expansion might be a total revelation that causes everyone to re-evaluate his score.  The samples that go up on Tuesday should start to tell the new story!

[Edmilson 7,649]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

someone put the Windtalkesr OST on youtube

It's utterly idiotic that the Windtalkers OST is only available to stream on YT thanks to fans and not due to it being officially released there. The same goes for The Patriot OST.

[Mr. Who 925]

Really looking forward to this and Gorky! This year is great for Horner fans when it comes to expansions!

[1977 1,743]

Bye bye money

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,445]

3-CD premiere of massive James Horner WWII action score! John Woo directs, MGM presents in 2002, Nicolas Cage, Adam Beach, Christian Slater, Mark Ruffalo, Peter Storemare lead the cast, Joe Batteer, John Rice script. Due numerous schedule issues during production and post production editorial changes, James Horner manages to score and record some two hours of original music including alternate cues. Significantly, large amount of material focuses on action, battle sequences, more than composer typically records. Also significantly, much of this frenzied and aggressive writing did not make it onto the RCA album from 2002, offering 66 minutes of music… admittedly all strong cues nonetheless. Director Woo examines challenges Cage has in readjusting to combat after losing his squad in an opening battle sequence. Other primary story line focuses on pair of Navajo code talkers, the Native Americans being trained to transmit radio messages in codes that Japanese could not break. Key dramatic point: Should any of the code talkers be captured, they were not allowed to be caught alive. Since they become friends with the soldiers, this creates the dramatic emotional weight of the story. A sizable task for the composer to address with his music. Horner responds with incredible weighted music packed with dynamic action writing, balancing with richly emotional Americana vernacular, including numerous soaring military solos for trumpet in upper register. Main theme first appears during opening “Navajo Dawn” as bus arrives, picks up Navajos who part with family members. Interestingly, this important thematic introduction was missing entirely from RCA album that featured earlier version of cue which went quickly into combat material instead. Both versions appear on Intrada restoration of complete score, mastered from two-track stereo session masters made by Simon Rhodes at Todd Scoring in Los Angeles across July and August 2001, with rescoring sessions held in January and February 2002. Numerous action cues appear in this release for the first time but also several warm, sensitive cues underscoring emotional underpinnings of powerful film. After some two hours of music plays across discs 1 & 2, original 2002 album plays on CD 3. Informative booklet notes by Frank DeWald plus dramatic graphic design work by Kay Marshall complete exciting package. Orchestrations by J.A.C. Redford, James Horner, Randy Kerber, Steven Bernstein, Carl Johnson. James Horner composes, conducts. Intrada Special Collection 3-CD set available while quantities and interest remain!

 

And here's the tracklist

CD 1 01. Navajo Dawn (Revised) – Film Version (4:23) 02. Solomons (4:13) 03. Hearing Test/Code Test (1:44) 04. A New Assignment #1 (1:12) 05. A New Assignment #2 (4:27) 06. Joe Looks At Birds (Revised) (1:00) 07. An Act Of Heroism #1 (With Synth) (2:36) 08. Saipan: Crazy Joe (2:33) 09. Saipan: Bazooka Ox (1:16) 10. Taking The Beachhead/Saipan:      First Radio Call (Version #1) (4:36) 11. Taking The Beachhead/Saipan:      First Radio Call (Version #2) (2:11) 12. Saipan: Satchel Charge (2:01) 13. The Night Before (3:32) 14. First Blood Ceremony (2:24) 15. Yahz Explains Ceremony To Joe (1:49) 16. Sharing Smokes (0:45) 17. Wounded Man (With Synth) (1:41) 18. Wounded Man – Version #2 (2:12) 19. Marine Assault – Part 1 (2:56) 20. Marine Assault – Part 2 (10:17) 21. Ghost Cemetery (5:20) 22. Entering Village (1:05) 23. Joe Draws In Flour (0:57) 24. Invitation To Navajo Country (0:49) 25. Village Attack (3:00) 26. An Act Of Heroism #2 (1:55) CD 1 Time: 73:36

CD 2 01. Losses Mounting (5:00) 02. Drive To Minefield (1:44) 03. Ambush (1:24) 04. Friends In War/Death Of Hjelmstad (8:00) 05. Reveal Jap Guns (0:44) 06. Capture The Radio (2:14) 07. A Sacrifice Never Forgotten (Revised) (7:56) 08. Calling To The Wind (Revised) – Film Version (10:36) CD 2 Score Time: 37:45 THE EXTRAS 09. Navajo Dawn (Original) (7:46) 10. Joe Looks At Birds (Original) (1:00) 11. An Act Of Heroism #1 (Without Synth) (1:27) 12. Wounded Man (Without Synth) (1:41) 13. A Sacrifice Never Forgotten (Original) (7:47) 14. A Sacrifice Never Forgotten (Alternate) (7:38) 15. Calling To The Wind (7:57) Total Extras Time: 6:28 CD 2 Total Time: 74:25

CD 3 Original 2002 Soundtrack Album 01. Navajo Dawn (7:54) 02. A New Assignment (4:38) 03. An Act Of Heroism (5:59) 04. Taking The Beachhead (6:17) 05. First Blood Ceremony (2:09) 06. The Night Before (3:32) 07. Marine Assault (5:40) 08. Losses Mounting (5:06) 09. Friends In War (7:56) 10. A Sacrifice Never Forgotten (7:11) 11. Calling To the Wind (10:33) CD 3 Total Time: 66:55

[JTN 2,257]

It’s not a cheap set. It’s €49.95 at Music Box Records.

$35.99 at Intrada, that’s without shipping + customs. 

Collecting soundtrack CDs has become a pricey hobby.

[Jay 37,548]

Wow, this looks awesome!  Can't wait to own this!

[crocodile 8,093]

Listening to the set.  OK, there is indeed a lot of new stuff on here. I really liked the old album already, which had some good action music, but it is really surprising to experience this material in the context of the entire score. Some of the new stuff is way more aggressive than what we've heard before. Let's put it this way: the old CD felt like one of those anguished Horner drama scores, the new expanded set pushes it more into the action territory. It almost feels like something you would hear in a Medal of Honor video game. I think a lot of people will be really surprised by this shift. If anything, definitely a significant upgrade.

 

Karol

[Levraibond 14]

It's a total discovery for me. I had never listened to the 2002 album before getting the complete presentation from Intrada. Based on the history behind this release I thought it would be a must have. And boy it is!

 

The action pieces are, indeed, quite fierce. I think the next and only Horner score to be that aggressive was Avatar with the "War" cue.

 

The dynamic range is huge. Intrada says in the liner note they didn't use any dynamic compression and gave us what the sessions sounded like. They delivered! 

 

A must have for Horner fans.

[CatastrophicJones 18]

This release sounds great!

 

Been curious to ask, has anyone noticed a skipping issue on the 3rd CD, album presentation? Best way to describe it is something similar to Sleepy Hollow's CD 1, where it was suppose to crossfade but would be inturrupted by a little gap of silence at the start of each track. As "A Sacrifice Never Forgotten" crossfades into "Calling To the Wind", the start of calling skips slightly. Luckily, I don't really like the original album presentation so I've ommited it from my lineup and listen to the first 2 cds, but that doesn't mean I want to ignore it.

 

I have run many of Intrada's releases through audition and one thing I observe is the way they're pressed, the start of every track has a little gap after the first few milliseconds. It's hard to explain, I'm not sure if it's been discussed before. This is usually no issue if the tracks don't crossfade but can become a problem when including presentations of albums that do contain those crossfades. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can explain if there's something I'm missing, but what it appears to me is that the current way Intrada cds are pressed, they're set up to have a little gap at the start of each track before the actual track begins. La La Land, Varese and Quartet do not appear to have this issue. I can provide pictures if desired.

[Chewy 2,419]

Again? Last time this happened for Sleepy Hollow, we sent a message to Intrada on their forums and replacement discs were made available. I guess we need to do that, again, for this release?

[CatastrophicJones 18]

58 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Again? Last time this happened for Sleepy Hollow, we sent a message to Intrada on their forums and replacement discs were made available. I guess we need to do that, again, for this release?

 

Only if other people's copies are experiencing the same issue. If I'm the only one guess I'm sol lol

 

I thankfully got my copy of Sleepy Hollow after the problem was corrected, so I'm fully able to enjoy that score. 

[Chewy 2,419]

30 minutes ago, CatastrophicJones said:

Only if other people's copies are experiencing the same issue. If I'm the only one guess I'm sol lol

 

I'm hearing it too on the track you mentioned. When looking at the waveforms, it's obvious there's something wrong during that track transition:

 

 

Let's contact Intrada then, I guess?

[CatastrophicJones 18]

9 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I'm hearing it too on the track you mentioned. When looking at the waveforms, it's obvious there's something wrong during that track transition:

 

 

Let's contact Intrada then, I guess?

 

What's the best way of going about doing that?

[Chewy 2,419]

3 minutes ago, CatastrophicJones said:

What's the best way of going about doing that?

 

The forum website (here: https://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/index.php) seems to be inactive, I see the message:

 

Quote

As of 9/26/2023 this forum is closed due to technical issues that the hoster is unable to resolve. Please join over 4000 fans at the hopping Intrada Soundtrack Club over on Facebook and keep up with the latest discussion and news over there.

 

So I guess, either:

• by email, through intrada@intrada.com
• by making a post on their Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220

[CatastrophicJones 18]

17 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

The forum website (here: https://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/index.php) seems to be inactive, I see the message:

 

 

So I guess, either:

• by email, through intrada@intrada.com
• by making a post on their Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220

I feel like Facebook would be the best way to get their attention. There's a guy on there (Roger?) who posts and responds regularly. 

[Chewy 2,419]

3 minutes ago, CatastrophicJones said:

I feel like Facebook would be the best way to get their attention. There's a guy on there (Roger?) who posts and responds regularly. 

 

That's Roger Feigelson who works for Intrada, yes! He's the one who answered my posts about the Sleepy Hollow problems, so go for it  

[CatastrophicJones 18]

7 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

That's Roger Feigelson who works for Intrada, yes! He's the one who answered my posts about the Sleepy Hollow problems, so go for it  

Did you message him or just make a post and tag him? If I'm gonna need to provide pics I'll have to do that when I can get to my computer later...

[Holko 9,618]

Maybe they should update their workflow if this is such a recurring problem... include a quality check maybe, that's a new idea

[CatastrophicJones 18]

24 minutes ago, Holko said:

Maybe they should update their workflow if this is such a recurring problem... include a quality check maybe, that's a new idea

 

I think they should have a few people to send out their first run of CDs to, who will rip and closely inspect the audio contents comparing them to the original master. That way if there are any issues, they're addressed before shipping out the full stock to everyone else. I'm sure there are plenty of us that would happily do it, hell I'd do it for free.

 

I'm not knocking Intrada (or any of the other labels) whatsoever, I'm grateful for their many releases over the years, and I also recognize nothings always perfect on the first try, but issues like this do get annoying.

[thestat 359]

Going through this. Yes, it does sound like a massive improvement over the disappointing original album which I can totally frisbee now (much as I would have liked to do when I bought in 2003, terrible, terrible CD, probably listened to it once back then).

 

Not sure if I want to hear this expanded again though despite appreciating JH's work here. The main theme is the umpteenth version of that same old theme, the action stuff is good but in that post-90s style with soft orchestrations (and recording in particular), the dissonance is not sufficiently crazy, but still annoyingly prevalent, just not picking any highlights from this.

 

Yes, it is louder and yes, there is more drumming. Still, it sounds like outtakes from every other 2000s score he did.

 

Not sure why JH did not pick up on that riff from Courage Under Fire (used for Titanic a lot) and deploy that in films like this where he just was not massively inspired.

[Chewy 2,419]

@CatastrophicJones Great post on that Facebook group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168685851165221/

 

Unfortunately some people there are really not helpful...

 

 

 

 

 

At least Roger saw the post:

 

 

But we'll likely not get any replacement disk this time:

 

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,332]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

@CatastrophicJones Great post on that Facebook group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168685851165221/

 

Unfortunately some people there are really not helpful...

 

 

 

 

 

At least Roger saw the post:

 

 

But we'll likely not get any replacement disk this time:

 

 

It does kinda feel like the availability of inexpensive/free audio software that only a few years ago would likely have been the preserve of professional music producers etc is something of a double edged sword (like so much tech which so quickly moves from hideously expensive to practically free in a very short space of time).

 

I don’t consider myself a super picky/trained audiophile but neither would I consider myself someone who doesn’t hear obvious issues with recordings or performances but sometimes the issues raised on these releases almost have everyone straining to hear them. I’m not denying that they exist or that for some they are painfully obvious but even the most egregiously offending mixing/recording/mastering/editing errors are often only a small step away from something that sounds perfectly fine. I’ve listened to this release several times now and honestly haven’t noticed any issues with it (even looking out for those that have been flagged).

 

Perhaps ignorance is bliss… I also repeat my comments that LLL, Intrada, Quartet etc etc do an amazingly high quality job given their likely budgets. It could be that all of these releases were left to people like D****y and we all know what an absolute clusterfuck they can make of it. 

[John F 100]

Life is too short to nitpick a “pop” or whatever. Just enjoy!

[Chewy 2,419]

50 minutes ago, John F said:

Life is too short to nitpick a “pop” or whatever. Just enjoy!

 

I agree that this issue is definitely not major, but I think it's necessary to tell Intrada that something is wrong in their process so that their future releases won't have the same issue.

 

They, at least, need to learn from their mistakes, that's the bare minimum for those kind of pricey specialty releases...

[Bespin 8,508]

In the digital age, a brief moment without signal in an audio recording, I would say, is quite serious. However, I appreciate your efforts to downplay the severity of the situation.

[Tydirium 1,168]

I haven’t listened to disc 3 yet, but I should mention that multiple people over at FSM noticed an issue on disc 1, track 20 at around 7:33. I hear it too. Apparently the same spot in the original RCA album didn’t have this issue, so it could be due to damage/a defect in Intrada’s source material?

[crocodile 8,093]

I appreciate and admire that people can spot small details like this. It is amazing what they can hear. But, to be honest, I am getting to the point in life where it bothers me less and less. Unless it is a major screw up, I do not particularly care. There are dozens of other things in life asking for my giving a shit.

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,508]

The key is to raise this type of issue with the label in order to make them aware that, although their product is acceptable, it is not of entirely impeccable quality. This is done with the intention that they strive to do better next time.

 

Then, Intrada will not be designated as the label of the year by IFMCA, that's all!

[CatastrophicJones 18]

13 hours ago, Chewy said:

@CatastrophicJones Great post on that Facebook group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168685851165221/

 

Unfortunately some people there are really not helpful...

 

 

 

 

 

At least Roger saw the post:

 

 

But we'll likely not get any replacement disk this time:

 

 

 

I appreciate that he acknowledged it without trying to flat out say there was "nothing wrong". Even if it doesn't get fixed, I can appreciate a simple response of acknowledgement over one filled with rudeness and denial. 

 

It is a shame this kind of stuff happens but letting them know is the best thing we can do, to hopefully prevent future issues. I know the pressing situation would affect future releases that will involve gapless playback, if they at least figure out why there's that gap in their releases and ommit it going forward, this will save them lots of money and trouble having to potentially shell out replacement discs. 

 

8 hours ago, Tydirium said:

I haven’t listened to disc 3 yet, but I should mention that multiple people over at FSM noticed an issue on disc 1, track 20 at around 7:33. I hear it too. Apparently the same spot in the original RCA album didn’t have this issue, so it could be due to damage/a defect in Intrada’s source material?

 

I noticed this too! I chalked it up to Horner's personal edit when he was making the OST which is why it isn't present there, but if that's not how it originally sounds from the sessions then that makes yet another issue with this releases 😅

 

8 hours ago, Bespin said:

In the digital age, a brief moment without signal in an audio recording, I would say, is quite serious. However, I appreciate your efforts to downplay the severity of the situation.

 

Yes! As a composer myself, and someone who hates even the most miniscule skip during a track, this sort of thing bothers me greatly.