HunterTech 994 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 So the composer who made the piece is a liar then? Then again, it's fairly common for a theme to evolve past its initial intent, so I won't rule that out (especially when it could also just be a "lie through omission" sort of thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Hans has exaggerated/stretched the truth multiple times in the past to hype up his scores. WilliamsStarShip2282 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, MaxMovieMan said: Hans has exaggerated/stretched the truth multiple times in the past to hype up his scores. That's putting it gently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 29/02/2024 at 8:26 AM, badbu said: what a movie!!! Wow!!! In IMAX it was an lifetime experience! Love it! For me, there are no „important“ cues missing (thank god!). A few film versions, like „Arrival“ which is really good, and two or three cues from the first part. But no major cue like „No time for Caution“ ^^ After seeing these are my favourite cues: Water of Life Seduction Travel South Arrival The Emperor Worm Army You fought well Kiss the Ring Only I will Remain (that cue was so loud at the credits love it!) I honestly didnt hear any difference in The Arrival myself. I did hear them in a lot of other tracks though. Plus a lot of microedits in some tracks like Eclipse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 the cue is a little bit longer and has some choirs at the end nothing „big“ but i really liked it. Thank god there is not much sfx in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 Why are people still arguing about this? The theme started as an opening for House Atreides, but only on sketchbook and not officially part of the musical canon. In Part 2, the theme was brought into the forefront to represent the love theme of Paul and Chani and the tragic journey of their relationship. The new version of the theme also takes on Fremen elements as Paul and Jessica and the Atreides are now being consumed by their culture. So it serves as both a love theme for Paul and Chani and to a lesser extent, an evolution of House Atreides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,355 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 6 minutes ago, Mephariel said: Why are people still arguing about this? The theme started as an opening for House Atreides, but only on sketchbook and not officially part of the musical canon. According to previous posts "as well as the track “Armada” on the first movie’s album. An unreleased variation plays when the Atreides arrive to Arrakis for the first time." MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Thats the bagpipe part tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 27 minutes ago, Faleel said: According to previous posts "as well as the track “Armada” on the first movie’s album. An unreleased variation plays when the Atreides arrive to Arrakis for the first time." can we verify this? are there film clips on youtube that show the scene where the theme plays in part 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 That theme has stuck with me since I saw the movie two days ago. It really nails the feelings of inevitability and melancholy. Very well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 27 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: can we verify this? are there film clips on youtube that show the scene where the theme plays in part 1? The second half of "House Atreides" is feature prominently here. Part of the stanza bleeds into Paul and Chani's theme, but it is not quite the theme either. Starts at 1:22 During the Armanda scene, the theme appears briefly Starts at 2:03 The entire 3:30 segment opening of "House Atreides" is only on the sketchbook in Dune 1, but is feature prominently in Dune 2 as the love theme. What was actually played in Dune 1 does contain some variations of it, but never the whole thing. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 The bagpipe theme is actually the same melody as the beginning of House Atreides and the love theme if you slow it down and change the tempo a bit. Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 26 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said: The bagpipe theme is actually the same melody as the beginning of House Atreides and the love theme if you slow it down and change the tempo a bit. And thus the debate. For me, I have no stakes. To me, it is clear the theme is both a love theme (primary) for Paul and Chani, and a theme for the evolution of House Atreides (secondary). The film hinted this as well. If you recall, "A Time of Quiet Between the Storms" plays during the kiss scene, but also immediately serve as the background music for the montage that follows showing Paul's integration into Fremen culture. Zimmer also hinted this by saying "I hate calling it a love theme because it is so much more than that." MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,466 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 @MaxMovieMan thanks for your breakdown! It really helped me appreciate both of these scores better! As I said before, they're not exactly my favorite kind of music (lol) but there are still some moments I really like in them. One of these moments is the electric cello (Tina Guo?) on You Fought Well: Which kinda reminded me of the score to Cyberpunk 2077: Also, I think Southern Messiah is slightly different in the movie. I remember something resembling trumpets at the end of the speech scene, when the Fremen are rallying to Paul, then I went to the OST to listen to this part... nothing MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Mephariel said: The second half of "House Atreides" is feature prominently here. Part of the stanza bleeds into Paul and Chani's theme, but it is not quite the theme either. Starts at 1:22 During the Armanda scene, the theme appears briefly Starts at 2:03 The entire 3:30 segment opening of "House Atreides" is only on the sketchbook in Dune 1, but is feature prominently in Dune 2 as the love theme. What was actually played in Dune 1 does contain some variations of it, but never the whole thing. Thanks. Honestly, it is sufficient for me to conclude that it is a love theme for Paul and Chani. And has nothing to do with the House Atridies. I understand the reference but it is oblique at best. I think we can use this as an explanation. Stephane Humez of RCP said - " He's not necessarily lying. Keep in mind Dune 1 was finished late 2020. The film came out late 2021. Hans continued writing after Dune 1 was locked. The Sketchbook released in 2021 had ideas for both movies, with some segments probably written after Dune 1 was already finished." Source: https://hans-zimmer.com/discography/1/project/3591 What he is saying is indeed true. If you remember Dune was in fact completed and ready to go in 2020 but was pushed by a year. So Zimmer has finished the score for part 1 a year before the album came out. So it is possible he kept writing and included some of his new material in the Sketchbook. -- We have to go by eventually what we see in the movies. In the movies, the love theme represents the love theme only. The director who cut the movie and stuck the score in there says it is a love theme - Denis Villeneuve said: "I wanted Hans to write something unforgettable for Chani. A love theme, the love of Paul for Chani. I wanted something heartbreaking, and the most beautiful love theme ever written, and honestly I think he did it with the track A Time of Quiet Between the Storms." Literally neither the director or the guy who wrote the score are not calling it a Atredies theme. Jon Burlingame asks him to explain the theme and Zimmer doesn't say it is an Atredies theme. --- The other reason is - there is already a kind of Atredies theme! It is the Caladan theme. Again going by the movie - it plays at prominent points where there is a strong sense of the Atredies as a unit. It plays at the climax of the movie to represent that and when Paul meets another family member (vague due to spoilers). So I think that the Caladan theme represents the Atredies and the love theme represents Paul and Chani's relationship. Evanus and TolkienSS 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Whatever floats your boat. TolkienSS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 It's not beyond HZ to have made a new theme that's basically a modification of an existing one, even within the same franchise. I still don't know why he made the Mermaid theme off of Pirates 4 so similar to the Black Pearl one (outside of temp track abuse), so I don't consider it particularly far fetched if it is as simple as him taking a liking to a little idea he had planted and reworking it for something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Bagpipes -> electric guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, Edmilson said: Also, I think Southern Messiah is slightly different in the movie. I remember something resembling trumpets at the end of the speech scene, when the Fremen are rallying to Paul, then I went to the OST to listen to this part... nothing Honestly half of that track felt different. I could not even hear any of the vocals in the movie. The sound mixing for the music wasnt as good as the first movie to be honest. MaxMovieMan, Evanus and Edmilson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 True. But the mixing on the first part was different too. „Armada“ for example -> 5m36-37 Harkonnen Attack in that cue you can hear very good the Harkonnen motif which you can’t hear so strong in the album version etc. I hope we get the FYC soon in maybe 6 month… MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 34 minutes ago, MedigoScan said: Honestly half of that track felt different. I could not even hear any of the vocals in the movie. The track also got cut awkwardly short to match Paul’s speech so the build-up isn’t right. It sounds edited and weird. Still though the moment is spectacular in film and this is just me being a picky film score nerd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Yeah Eclipse and Harkonnen Arena were also edited around. Though its possible that the film mixes came first and the soundtrack album just pasted together better sounding edits. 34 minutes ago, badbu said: True. But the mixing on the first part was different too. „Armada“ for example -> 5m36-37 Harkonnen Attack in that cue you can hear very good the Harkonnen motif which you can’t hear so strong in the album version etc. I hope we get the FYC soon in maybe 6 month… Dont forget how the film version of 'Ripples in the Sand' got the organ blasting at the end instead of the guitar. So glad we got that in the FYC. badbu and MaxMovieMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Yeah This was the best Hans FYC after interstellar MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark 316 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Ah, another Zimmer epic with a “love theme” that may or may not be a love theme. This went well last time! MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Love theme or not…it’s a beautiful cue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 hours ago, Stark said: Ah, another Zimmer epic with a “love theme” that may or may not be a love theme. This went well last time! I'm out of the loop. What was the last time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,355 Posted March 10 Popular Post Share Posted March 10 4 minutes ago, Jay said: I'm out of the loop. What was the last time? At World's End I think. MaxMovieMan, Stark and Cameron1138 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Who 919 Posted March 12 Popular Post Share Posted March 12 Listened to the OST again and am really impressed! The development of the themes from the first score is top notch and I love how the Haderach/Messiah theme is used alongside the Arrakis/Dune A and the Dune Main theme. And the love theme is up there with Zimmer's most beautiful themes, the combination of the melody with the accompaniment motif played by the horn sounding instrument and the bell phrase in Kiss the Ring is amazing! I hope that a longer album or a Sketchbook album is planned because the sonic world of these scores is so rich and deserves more album releases! I'm really looking forward to hearing A Quiet Time Between Storms live at the new WOHZ concert later this spring. I think it will be a slightly more orchestral arrangement which could be a nice alternate! dyemery, greenturnedblue, MaxMovieMan and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monoverantus 363 Posted March 14 Popular Post Share Posted March 14 On 04/03/2024 at 11:15 AM, MaxMovieMan said: To carry on @WampaRat’s thematic glossary I put together a thematic breakdown of the score as well as the chronological order. I’ve seen the film three times now and honestly it’s one of the best things I’ve watched in a long time. In combination with Part One I’d say this is a 10/10 movie. RETURNING THEMES/MOTIFS Dune Main Theme - I’ll be classifying the four-note theme as the “A” theme and the eight-note theme as the “B” theme to stay consistent. When both play at once I’ll refer to it as the main theme. Fate/“The One” Theme - There is a major missing variation of this theme that plays towards the end of the film. It has the Kwisatz Haderach motif as a counterpoint. I’m sure this will be on the FYC album. Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords - Sadly this motif takes a backseat in this score. It plays a select couple times but doesn’t nearly have the presence it did in the first film. Tragic Noble Theme - Another theme that is diluted this time around. It has a great appearance at the end of “Only I Will Remain” but that track doesn’t actually play during the film only the credits. Impending Doom Motif - Although not actually appearing as much as it did in the first film, this motif makes a major impact on the film by playing in select important scenes relating to Paul’s dark future or even the darker actions he takes here. Sorrow/Loss Motif - Sadly not featured on the album but there is a track in the film that features this motif. It plays twice and both times relates to how the Bene Gesserit prophecy is taking over the Fremen and leading them to war. Hopefully this track will be on FYC album. House Atreides/Paul and Chani’s Love Theme - This theme goes from barely being featured in the first film to becoming the main theme of the second. It evolves from the bagpipe power anthem for House Atreides to a beautiful woodwind/Blade Runner-esque love theme for Paul and Chani. Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants Arrakis Drum Motif Harkonnen Screech Harkonnen Clang NEW THEMES/MOTIFS Feyd Rautha Motif - Heard more in the film itself, this is a dark cello motif that represents the chaotically evil Feyd Rautha. (Harkonnen Arena - 0:00, 0:44) (Seduction - 0:00) Kwisatz Haderach Motif - New dark three-note cello motif for the culmination of the Bene Gesserit breeding process; the Kwisatz Haderach. Also has a drum rhythm behind it. Blares loud in theaters and often acts as a counterpoint to other main themes. It represents both Paul and Feyd as they’re both prospects for the Kwisatz Haderach. (Harkonnen Arena - 4:48) (Travel South - 0:06) (Arrival - 0:00) (You Fought Well - 0:12) The Emperor’s Motif - Loud and grand motif that represents the emperor of the known universe. Features choir and some brass which most of Dune doesn’t have. (The Emperor - 0:39) TRACK-BY-TRACK BREAKDOWN (In chronological order) Eclipse Reveal hidden contents The opening track of the film where Princess Irulan recaps what happened to House Atreides in the last film and the aftermath of that massacre. This then cuts to Arrakis where the larger moon begins to eclipse the sun. 0:30 - Arrakis Drums 0:45 - Tragic Noble Theme 1:02 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords 1:36 - Impending Doom Motif 3:00 - Arrakis Drums The Sietch Reveal hidden contents Paul and Jessica are brought into Sietch Tabr by the Fremen. They are not welcomed and it’s almost impossible to make it through because so many people are blocking their way. 0:40 - Dune “A” Theme 1:12 - Dune “B” Theme 1:24 - Dune “A” Theme 2:15 - Fate/“The One” Theme 2:22 - Arrakis Drums Water of Life Reveal hidden contents Jessica drinks the Water of Life. It’s as trippy as I imagined reading the book. 0:12 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants Beginnings Are Such Delicate Times Reveal hidden contents Only the beginning section of this track is used. It’s when Chani meets Paul in the desert and teaches him how to sand-walk. Paul and Chani then have a nice moment chilling on the dunes together. The House Atreides theme is transformed into a soft love theme on some kind of woodwind for Paul and Chani. It’s actually very beautiful. 0:00 - Arrakis Drums 0:19 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Harvester Attack Reveal hidden contents The Fremen take down a Harkonnen Spice Harvester. 1:04 - Arrakis Drums 1:45 - Impending Doom Motif 3:10 - Dune “A” Theme A Time of Quiet Between Storms Reveal hidden contents Paul and Chani officially fall in love as the transformed House Atreides/Paul and Chani theme goes full force. A montage then shows Paul’s development as a legend to the Fremen people. 0:28 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Worm Ride Reveal hidden contents Paul conquers Shai-Hulud by riding a grandfather sandworm. This track is probably one of my favorites just because of how beautiful the main theme sounds here and how well it works with the scene. Paul riding the sandworm is the most badass scene I’ve seen in a while and it was so satisfying to see him do it. Brought the book to life. 0:03 - Arrakis Drums 0:44 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:51 - Dune Main Theme Ornithopter Attack Reveal hidden contents Raban and his Harkonnens attempt to stop the growing Fremen threat but are embarrassingly easily defeated by Muad’Dib. 0:03 - Harkonnen Screech 0:06 - Harkonnen Clang 1:30 - I don’t know what theme this is but it sounds like something from Batman lol. Each Man Is a Little War Reveal hidden contents Feyd Rautha picks out the blades he’s gonna use in his arena fight. He tests them out on the poor assistants helping him. Harkonnen Arena Reveal hidden contents Feyd Rautha fights three Atreides soldiers on Geidi Prime. This track is one of my personal favorites just because of its crazy marching rhythm and alien sound. 0:00 - Feyd Rautha Motif 0:52 - Harkonnen Screech 1:25 - Feyd Rautha Motif 4:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Rhythm 5:00 - Harkonnen Screech Seduction Reveal hidden contents Margot Fenring lures Feyd into her quarters where she pulls out the Gom Jabbar on him. 0:00 - Feyd Rautha Motif 0:04 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants 0:50 - Bene Gesserit Seduction Theme Spice Reveal hidden contents Paul has a terrible dream of a massive explosion in the distance and Chani’s skin burnt to a crisp. Never Lose Me Reveal hidden contents Paul tells Chani that he’s afraid he’ll lose her if he goes south but she tells him that’ll never happen as long as he stays who he is. 0:09 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Travel South Reveal hidden contents The surviving Fremen travel south on sandworms while Paul diverges on his own to take the Water of Life. 0:06 - Dune “A” Theme 0:06 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:54 - Fate/“The One” Theme Paul Drinks Reveal hidden contents Chani gives her teardrop to Paul in his mouth which allows him to awake from his coma. 0:35 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Resurrection Reveal hidden contents Paul becomes the Kwisatz Haderach and discovers the truth of his lineage. 0:04 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:58 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants 1:35 - Impending Doom Motif Arrival Reveal hidden contents Paul arrives to the Fremen meeting in the south, fully transformed into the Kwisatz Haderach. The Fremen who once blocked his way now pave the way for his entrance. The Kwisatz Haderach motif and the Dune “A” theme work in unison to create the ultimate march for Paul’s ascendancy. 0:00 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:56 - Dune “A” Theme Southern Messiah Reveal hidden contents Paul speaks at the Fremen meeting and rallies all of them behind him as the Lisan al Gaib; Mahdi. Probably my favorite track just due to its epic use of the Impending Doom motif. Also this scene features my favorite line of the film, “At that time this world had a Fremen name; Dune.” Paul transforms into his destiny here and it’s not portrayed as heroic for a reason. It’s portrayed as terrifying. 1:22 - Impending Doom Motif 1:42 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants 2:02 - Impending Doom Motif 4:05 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords 4:18 - Tragic Noble Theme 4:43 - Arrakis Drums 4:46 - Impending Doom Motif The Emperor Reveal hidden contents The emperor arrives on Arrakis. 0:39 - The Emperor’s Motif Worm Army Reveal hidden contents The Fremen ambush the Sardukar army on giant sandworms while Chani and her Fedaykin attack on foot. I love what Hans does with the Dune “A” Theme here it sounds so badass in action mode. 1:30 - Dune “A” Theme 2:14 - Bane?!? 2:32 - Dune “A” Theme Gurney Battle Reveal hidden contents Gurney Halleck leads the Fremen against the Harkonnens where he eventually catches up with Raban. They fight but it lasts like two seconds as Halleck takes one stab at Raban’s neck and the fight’s over. 0:05 - Harkonnen Screech 0:26 - House Atreides Theme 2:05 - Harkonnen Screech You Fought Well Reveal hidden contents Paul defeats Feyd in combat and approaches the emperor. 0:01 - Dune “B” Theme 0:12 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:48 - Dune “B” Theme 0:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Kiss the Ring Reveal hidden contents Paul makes the emperor kiss his ring and officially ascends the Golden Lion Throne. The other great houses decide to dispute this so Paul sends the Fremen up to wipe them all out. Meanwhile Chani leaves all of this and rides away on a sandworm. 0:33 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Only I Will Remain End credits track. 0:00 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme 3:42 - Arrakis Drums 3:54 - Tragic Noble Theme 5:29 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords Lisan al Gaib Bonus track with the main two themes of Dune. 0:00 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:05 - Arrakis Drums 2:30 - Dune “B” Theme 4:09 - Dune Main Theme 6:11 - Arrakis Drums Correct me on any mistakes I made and I hope you enjoyed the post. Wow, this is invaluable work! I'm a bit late on the hype train, but I'm working on a video breaking down the thematic storytelling in HZ's Dune scores, and these lists have saved me a lot of time. I'd like to credit both you and @WampaRat when I'm done. Bofur01, Jay and MaxMovieMan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JNHFan2000 2,966 Posted March 15 Popular Post Share Posted March 15 badbu, MaxMovieMan and Trope 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Is it possible that the first track of the album is an addition to the Dune Sketchbook and not actual score? Its position within the album, the length and the thematic focus would imply that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 9 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said: He again only and ONLY calls it the love theme - repeatedly - and does not mention House Atredies at all. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,355 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 11 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: He again only and ONLY calls it the love theme - repeatedly - and does not mention House Atredies at all. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 On 10/03/2024 at 6:51 AM, Stark said: Ah, another Zimmer epic with a “love theme” that may or may not be a love theme. This went well last time! Down to a negative Clemmensen review that complains about that very thing! enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mephariel 451 Posted March 16 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 16 Breaking just now... The Supreme Court on Saturday agreed to decide whether the love theme "A Time of Quiet Between the Storms" can also act as a representation for House Atreides. In a one-page unsigned order, the justices ordered a federal appeals court to continue to keep on hold the distribution of the Dune: Part One sketchbook album in order to mitigate the possibility of evidence tempering. Composer Hans Zimmer dismissed the case, arguing that he has Oscar immunity, and cannot be persecuted for musical abstraction, a crime that carries up to 20 years in Clemmensen asylum. "I hate to call it a love theme," he added, "because it is so much more." He has yet to explain what "more" means. His assistant composer Steve Mazzaro emotionally urged the court to drop the case pleading that "Love is universal and can represent all things." Source: Deadline badbu, Monoverantus, Edmilson and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 The Love theme is honestly far from the only one that is quite hard to categorize. I've seen people refer to at least 3 different themes as "Paul's theme"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Quite honestly, given how the Zimmer factory works, I doubt he has any clue what is what. Since he just comes up with concepts and hands them off to his minions, it wouldn't surprise me if he was indeed hyping up the score like the the other person commented. I do, though, think the score works very well with the film. It made me think back to Morricone's book where he said Williams was wrong in writing the score he did for Star Wars, and should have written something more avante garde. I think now we have perfect examples of both sides of that coin. I guess it's hard for me to say, since I wasn't around when the originals came out, but Star Trek had certainly been on TV and other Sci-Fi films, so although Star Wars doesn't seem so weird looking now, maybe it did then. But while I was watching the Dunes, I was thinking what is the difference between the two (besides the obvious story mirroring). Because obviously both scores work so well, but Star Wars is some what fast paced and action packed, even though there are a lot of weird words and creatures, they are all kind of doing things or acting in a relatable way. Dune is very slow, with all of these weird sound effects, everything looks incredibly unforeseen, and the characters also act and conduct themselves in weird ways, and the music really lends itself to that. Even with themes, they're pretty reserved. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monoverantus 363 Posted March 17 Popular Post Share Posted March 17 The most striking aspect of the Dune movies to me is how tactile they are. I can feel the sand rippling on the dunes, the wind in my hair, the tremors through the ground. The sort of eyes-half-closed abstract visual of the title shots (that reappear as transition shots in Part 2) is something all of us recognize, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to visualize it. For this, I think it's very fitting with a similarly tactile score. It's not concerned with the intellect or complexity of scoring traditions, but with the visceral impact it can give. The House Atreides melody on bagpipe/electric guitar feels right, and the same theme on duduk over synth chords feels right, though it's a completely different context. Knight of Ren, MaxMovieMan, Yavar Moradi and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I love the second half of "Only I Will Remain." It sounds like light to me, which is interesting because I think that theme is meant to be foreboding and convey destruction. But the variation in that track doesn't do that for me. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 4 hours ago, dylanskie said: I love the second half of "Only I Will Remain." It sounds like light to me, which is interesting because I think that theme is meant to be foreboding and convey destruction. But the variation in that track doesn't do that for me. I think that’s what Hans was going for honestly. The beauty and majesty of Paul getting his revenge and becoming emperor but also the realization of what it all really means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I feel like I'm going crazy, I'm looking for a video clip where Hans describes how his aim with the Love theme was to go simpler. Anyone know what video I'm talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoverantus 363 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 So, now that Part 2 has been digitally released, I've rewatched it and have some thoughts. 1) The theme @MaxMovieMan calls "Fremen Chimes" appears twice in Part 2: 0:00 in The Sietch, and the unreleased track when Jessica leaves Paul to travel south. 2) The track Ornithopter Attack appears nowhere in the movie 3) The drum beat in Harkonnen Arena is in 7/4 (odd time signature just like Feyd Rautha's theme), while the beat under Kwisatz Haderach is in 4/4, so I'm not 100% that a thematic connection is implied. 4) The first 3 notes of Feyd Rautha's theme is a retrograde inversion of Paul's theme (The One) 5) There is no Seduction theme, it's just Feyd-Rautha's theme played in a high register on a harp or guitar 6) The Emperor's theme is played twice: 0:39 in The Emperor, and the unreleased track when the Emperor's guard humiliates the Baron. Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 12 hours ago, Monoverantus said: 2) The track Ornithopter Attack appears nowhere in the movie 5) There is no Seduction theme, it's just Feyd-Rautha's theme played in a high register on a harp or guitar 2) I think that track was meant to be used during the action scene of Rabban Harkonnen's attack to the fremen, when they get scared and run off, since I think there's no music in that scene. Perhaps they felt it worked better without score, butfrom what I remember, it could fit in there. 5) I noticed this as well while listening to the soundtrack again a few days ago. Particularly, in Harkonnen Arena, Feyd-Rautha's theme reminded me a lot of that Seduction theme, so I checked both Harkonnen Arena and Seduction back to back and it definitely feels like the same melody but with vastly different arrangements. Listen to 0:45 of Harkonnen Arena and then to 0:50 of Seduction. I also remember there were some unreleased variations on this idea. Mr. Who and Monoverantus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 12 minutes ago, Knight of Ren said: 2) I think that track was meant to be used during the action scene of Rabban Harkonnen's attack to the fremen, when they get scared and run off, since I think there's no music in that scene. Perhaps they felt it worked better without score, butfrom what I remember, it could fit in there. 5) I noticed this as well while listening to the soundtrack again a few days ago. Particularly, in Harkonnen Arena, Feyd-Rautha's theme reminded me a lot of that Seduction theme, so I checked both Harkonnen Arena and Seduction back to back and it definitely feels like the same melody but with vastly different arrangements. Listen to 0:45 of Harkonnen Arena and then to 0:50 of Seduction. I also remember there were some unreleased variations on this idea. Yes the Feyd theme in the Arena track is definitively the same as in Seduction. The theme can also be heard in Song of the Sisters (in the latter half of the track) and that arrangement is quite similar to Seduction. However, there’s also a really cool vocal continuation/variation section of the theme in the suite which was sadly never used in the movie. 12 hours ago, Monoverantus said: So, now that Part 2 has been digitally released, I've rewatched it and have some thoughts. 1) The theme @MaxMovieMan calls "Fremen Chimes" appears twice in Part 2: 0:00 in The Sietch, and the unreleased track when Jessica leaves Paul to travel south. 2) The track Ornithopter Attack appears nowhere in the movie 3) The drum beat in Harkonnen Arena is in 7/4 (odd time signature just like Feyd Rautha's theme), while the beat under Kwisatz Haderach is in 4/4, so I'm not 100% that a thematic connection is implied. 4) The first 3 notes of Feyd Rautha's theme is a retrograde inversion of Paul's theme (The One) 5) There is no Seduction theme, it's just Feyd-Rautha's theme played in a high register on a harp or guitar 6) The Emperor's theme is played twice: 0:39 in The Emperor, and the unreleased track when the Emperor's guard humiliates the Baron. The Chime theme is also in Part One but the tuning of the bells/notes are a bit different. It plays in the middle of Stillsuite and in an unreleased cue where Paul looks at the film books (before Hunter Seeker). It’s a nice little idea which works so well with the Vast Mystery harmonies playing alongside it (like in Stillsuits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 I’ve uploaded some of the unreleased tracks from Dune: Part Two on my channel. They’re a little rippy but for the most part are pretty good. I used the 5.1 split on Audacity from the Vudu file and some AI for the reduction to overall create a solid product. https://youtube.com/@completefilmania?si=7fofzzSySbvsRH79 Here’s one of the main unreleased tracks. Cameron1138 and badbu 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Thanks! And now „Arrival“? <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 4/3/2024 at 2:15 AM, MaxMovieMan said: To carry on @WampaRat’s thematic glossary I put together a thematic breakdown of the score as well as the chronological order. I’ve seen the film three times now and honestly it’s one of the best things I’ve watched in a long time. In combination with Part One I’d say this is a 10/10 movie. RETURNING THEMES/MOTIFS Dune Main Theme - I’ll be classifying the four-note theme as the “A” theme and the eight-note theme as the “B” theme to stay consistent. When both play at once I’ll refer to it as the main theme. Fate/“The One” Theme - This theme is extremely underplayed on album. The theme in this film basically becomes Jessica’s after she… changes. It’s played on woodwinds quite a lot as she enacts her plans. There is a major missing variation of this theme that plays towards the end of the film. It has the Kwisatz Haderach motif as a counterpoint. I’m sure this will be on the FYC album. Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords - Sadly this motif takes a backseat in this score. It plays a select couple times but doesn’t nearly have the presence it did in the first film. Tragic Noble Theme - Another theme that is diluted this time around. It has a great appearance at the end of “Only I Will Remain” but that track doesn’t actually play during the film only the credits. Impending Doom Motif - Although not actually appearing as much as it did in the first film, this motif makes a major impact on the film by playing in select important scenes relating to Paul’s dark future or even the darker actions he takes here. Sorrow/Loss Motif - Sadly not featured on the album but there is a track in the film that features this motif. It plays twice and both times relates to how the Bene Gesserit prophecy is taking over the Fremen and leading them to war. Hopefully this track will be on FYC album. House Atreides/Paul and Chani’s Love Theme - This theme goes from barely being featured in the first film to becoming the main theme of the second. It evolves from the bagpipe power anthem for House Atreides to a beautiful woodwind/Blade Runner-esque love theme for Paul and Chani. Bene Gesserit Seduction Motif/Feyd Rautha Motif - This motif was originally featured on the second half of the track, “Song of the Sisters” from the sketchbook album. It was then developed menacingly into the six-note Feyd Rautha Motif now heard in this film. Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant Arrakis Drum Motif Harkonnen Screech Harkonnen Clang Fremen Chimes - This is a new motif that I noticed upon rewatching both films. It’s like a small little chime march that appears when characters are walking through the rocky terrain of the Sietches. It has a big appearance that’s not on the new album but it’s when… Reveal hidden contents Jessica walks down the dune after talking to Paul before going south. (Sandwalk Video (FYC) - 0:22) (Stillsuits - 1:55) NEW THEMES/MOTIFS Kwisatz Haderach Motif - New dark three-note cello motif for the culmination of the Bene Gesserit breeding process; the Kwisatz Haderach. Also has a drum rhythm behind it. Blares loud in theaters and often acts as a counterpoint to other main themes. It represents both Paul and Feyd as they’re both prospects for the Kwisatz Haderach. (Harkonnen Arena - 4:48) (Travel South - 0:06) (Arrival - 0:00) (You Fought Well - 0:12) The Emperor’s Motif - Loud and grand motif that represents the emperor of the known universe. Features choir and some brass which most of Dune doesn’t have. (The Emperor - 0:39) TRACK-BY-TRACK BREAKDOWN (In chronological order) Eclipse Reveal hidden contents The opening track of the film where Princess Irulan recaps what happened to House Atreides in the last film and the aftermath of that massacre. This then cuts to Arrakis where the larger moon begins to eclipse the sun. 0:30 - Arrakis Drum Motif 0:45 - Tragic Noble Theme 1:02 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords 1:20 - Tragic Noble Theme 1:36 - Impending Doom Motif 2:30 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant 3:00 - Arrakis Drum Motif The Sietch Reveal hidden contents Paul and Jessica are brought into Sietch Tabr by the Fremen. They are not welcomed and it’s almost impossible to make it through because so many people are blocking their way. 0:02 - Fremen Chimes 0:40 - Dune “A” Theme 1:12 - Dune Main Theme 1:24 - Dune “A” Theme 2:15 - Fate/“The One” Theme 2:22 - Arrakis Drum Motif Cistern of Souls (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Stilgar shows Jessica the Cistern of Souls. Water of Life Reveal hidden contents Jessica drinks the “Water of Life.” It’s as trippy as I imagined reading the book. 0:12 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant The Beauty and the Horror (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Jessica tells Paul that he must take the “Water of Life.” 0:23 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:46 - Arrakis Drum Motif Beginnings Are Such Delicate Times Reveal hidden contents Only the beginning section of this track is used. It’s when Chani meets Paul in the desert and teaches him how to sand-walk. Paul and Chani then have a nice moment chilling on the dunes together. The House Atreides theme is transformed into a soft love theme on some kind of woodwind for Paul and Chani. It’s actually very beautiful. 0:00 - Arrakis Drum Motif 0:19 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Paul and Chani (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Chani teaches Paul to sandwalk and Jessica chooses which targets to manipulate first. 0:01 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme 1:02 - Fate/“The One” Theme 1:14 - Arrakis Drum Motif Harvester Attack Reveal hidden contents The Fremen take down a Harkonnen Spice Harvester. 1:04 - Arrakis Drum Motif 1:45 - Impending Doom Motif 3:10 - Dune “A” Theme A Time of Quiet Between Storms Reveal hidden contents Paul and Chani officially fall in love as the transformed House Atreides/Paul and Chani theme goes full force. A montage then shows Paul’s development as a legend to the Fremen people. 0:28 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Worm Ride Reveal hidden contents Paul conquers Shai-Hulud by riding a grandfather sandworm. This track is probably one of my favorites just because of how beautiful the main theme sounds here and how well it works with the scene. Paul riding the sandworm is the most badass scene I’ve seen in a while and it was so satisfying to see him do it. Brought the book to life. 0:03 - Arrakis Drum Motif 0:44 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:51 - Dune Main Theme Jessica’s Manipulation (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Jessica manipulates the Fremen and Chani warns Paul of this. 0:10 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:25 - Arrakis Drum Motif 0:55 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Jessica Heads South (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Jessica goes south after talking with Paul. 0:19 - Sorrow/Loss Motif 0:58 - Fremen Chimes 1:35 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant Ornithopter Attack Reveal hidden contents Rabban and his Harkonnens attempt to stop the growing Fremen threat but are embarrassingly easily defeated by Muad’Dib. 0:03 - Harkonnen Screech 0:06 - Harkonnen Clang 1:30 - I don’t know what theme this is but it sounds like something from Batman lol. Bene Gesserit Plan (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Princess Irulan and the Reverend Mother discuss the uprising on Arrakis. Each Man Is a Little War Reveal hidden contents Feyd Rautha picks out the blades he’s gonna use in his arena fight. He tests them out on the poor assistants helping him. Harkonnen Arena Reveal hidden contents Feyd Rautha fights three Atreides soldiers on Geidi Prime. This track is one of my personal favorites just because of its crazy marching rhythm and alien sound. 0:29 - Harkonnen Screech 0:45 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 0:52 - Harkonnen Screech 1:12 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 1:37 - Harkonnen Screech 1:40 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 1:59 - Harkonnen Clang 2:13 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Rhythm 2:15 - Harkonnen Screech 3:25 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 4:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Rhythm 5:00 - Harkonnen Screech The Baron’s Gift (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents The Baron tempts Feyd with Arrakis. 0:23 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 1:04 - Harkonnen Screech Seduction Reveal hidden contents Margot Fenring lures Feyd into her quarters where she pulls out the Gom Jabbar on him. 0:04 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant 0:50 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif Feyd’s Anointment (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents The Baron anoints Feyd the new Duke of Arrakis. 0:31 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif Gurney Reunion (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Paul reunites with Gurney after battling in the desert. 1:36 - Tragic Noble Theme War is Coming (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Duncan tells Paul that war is on the horizon. 0:14 - Sorrow/Loss Motif Atreides Arsenal (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Duncan shows Paul the Atreides nuclear arsenal and Jessica arrives in the south. 0:19 - Sorrow/Loss Motif 1:35 - Fate/“The One” Theme Baby Sandworm (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Jessica is shown how the “Water of Life” is made. 1:36 - Impending Doom Motif Spice Reveal hidden contents Paul has a terrible dream of a massive explosion in the distance and Chani’s skin burnt to a crisp. The Bombing of Sietch Tabr (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Sietch Tabr is bombed and Paul is faced with a great decision. 0:20 - Harkonnen Screech 0:20 - Harkonnen Clang 1:36 - Bene Gesserit Seduction/Feyd Rautha Motif 5:08 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords Never Lose Me Reveal hidden contents Paul tells Chani that he’s afraid he’ll lose her if he goes south but she tells him that’ll never happen as long as he stays who he is. 0:09 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Travel South Reveal hidden contents The surviving Fremen travel south on sandworms while Paul diverges on his own to take the Water of Life. 0:06 - Dune “A” Theme 0:06 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:54 - Fate/“The One” Theme Paul Drinks (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Chani gives her teardrop to Paul in his mouth which allows him to awake from his coma. 0:35 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Paul’s Vision (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Paul drinks the “Water of Life.” 1:00 - Dune “B” Theme 1:17 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords 1:58 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant Resurrection Reveal hidden contents Paul becomes the Kwisatz Haderach and discovers the truth of his lineage. 0:04 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:58 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant 1:35 - Impending Doom Motif Arrival Reveal hidden contents Paul arrives to the Fremen meeting in the south, fully transformed into the Kwisatz Haderach. The Fremen who once blocked his way now pave the way for his entrance. The Kwisatz Haderach motif and the Dune “A” theme work in unison to create the ultimate march for Paul’s ascendancy. 0:00 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:56 - Dune “A” Theme Southern Messiah Reveal hidden contents Paul speaks at the Fremen meeting and rallies all of them behind him as the Lisan al Gaib; Mahdi. Probably my favorite track just due to its epic use of the Impending Doom motif. Also this scene features my favorite line of the film, “At that time this world had a Fremen name; Dune.” Paul transforms into his destiny here and it’s not portrayed as heroic; it’s portrayed as terrifying. 1:22 - Impending Doom Motif 1:42 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant 2:02 - Impending Doom Motif 4:05 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords 4:18 - Tragic Noble Theme 4:43 - Arrakis Drum Motif 4:46 - Impending Doom Motif The Emperor Reveal hidden contents The emperor arrives on Arrakis. 0:39 - The Emperor’s Motif The Baron Confronts the Emperor (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents The emperor chastises the Baron for his failing of Arrakis. 0:02 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chant 0:19 - Arrakis Drum Motif 3:10 - The Emperor’s Motif Long Live the Fighters (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Paul rallies the Fremen and launches the nukes. 0:24 - Dune “A” Theme 0:42 - The Kwisatz Haderach Motif 1:00 - Fate/“The One” Motif 1:16 - Dune “A” Theme Worm Army Reveal hidden contents The Fremen ambush the Sardukar army on giant sandworms while Chani and her Fedaykin attack on foot. I love what Hans does with the Dune “A” Theme here it sounds so badass in action mode. 1:30 - Dune “A” Theme 2:14 - Bane?!? 2:32 - Dune “A” Theme Paul Kills the Baron (UNRELEASED) Reveal hidden contents Paul gets his revenge. This track is essentially a reprise of “Premonition” from the first film. 0:02 - Impending Doom Motif 2:01 - Arrakis Drum Motif Gurney Battle Reveal hidden contents Gurney Halleck leads the Fremen against the Harkonnens where he eventually catches up with Rabban. They fight but it lasts like two seconds as Halleck takes one stab at Raban’s neck and the fight’s over. 0:05 - Harkonnen Screech 0:26 - House Atreides Theme 2:05 - Harkonnen Screech You Fought Well Reveal hidden contents Paul defeats Feyd in combat and approaches the emperor. 0:01 - Dune “B” Theme 0:12 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif 0:48 - Dune “B” Theme 0:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Kiss the Ring Reveal hidden contents Paul makes the emperor kiss his ring and officially ascends the Golden Lion Throne. The other great houses decide to dispute this so Paul sends the Fremen up to wipe them all out. Meanwhile Chani leaves all of this and rides away on a sandworm. 0:33 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme Only I Will Remain Reveal hidden contents End credits track. The ending with the Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords is very ominous. It’s foreboding for a reason considering what’s to come… 0:00 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme 3:42 - Arrakis Drum Motif 3:54 - Tragic Noble Theme 5:29 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords Lisan al Gaib Reveal hidden contents Bonus track with the main two themes of Dune. 0:00 - Fate/“The One” Theme 0:05 - Arrakis Drum Motif 2:30 - Dune “B” Theme 4:09 - Dune Main Theme 6:11 - Arrakis Drum Motif Correct me on any mistakes I made and I hope you enjoyed the post. I updated this breakdown with the unreleased tracks and also I have now come to realize that Feyd’s motif is actually just the seduction motif from the second half of “Song of the Sisters.” Hans decided to use the same motif again for a different purpose just like the House Atreides theme (Although the seduction motif was never heard in the first film only the sketchbook album). Cameron1138 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron1138 33 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 On 16/04/2024 at 3:34 AM, MaxMovieMan said: I’ve uploaded some of the unreleased tracks from Dune: Part Two on my channel. They’re a little rippy but for the most part are pretty good. I used the 5.1 split on Audacity from the Vudu file and some AI for the reduction to overall create a solid product. https://youtube.com/@completefilmania?si=7fofzzSySbvsRH79 Here’s one of the main unreleased tracks. PLEASE let at least this track be on the FYC. Hopefully at least a couple of the Harkonnen/Feyd tracks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 but it's not a different purpose: it's clearly about the bene gesserit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron1138 33 Posted 15 hours ago Share Posted 15 hours ago On 21/04/2024 at 5:07 AM, Brónach said: but it's not a different purpose: it's clearly about the bene gesserit. It's not only used in the seduction scene though, it's used for Feyd in numerous scenes that aren't about the Bene Gesserit at all (at least no more than any scene about Paul is about them, since they both factor in their plans). So I think it's pretty safe to consider it Feyd's theme at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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