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Docteur Qui

The Rise of Skywalker end credits is 300 bars long

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Looks to be 1M14, yep. So they're yet to record some of the earliest cues in the film.

 

Makes sense actually, as there were apparently recent reshoots near Pinewood that probably belong early in the film. Does 14 cues in the first reel indicate lots of re-edits to anyone else? The TFA cue list was similarly confusing with its slate numbers.

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20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Looks to be 1M14, yep. So they're yet to record some of the earliest cues in the film.

 

Makes sense actually, as there were apparently recent reshoots near Pinewood that probably belong early in the film. Does 14 cues in the first reel indicate lots of re-edits to anyone else? The TFA cue list was similarly confusing with its slate numbers.

 

There are substantial rumors floating around that indicate that the original opening scene has recently been completely replaced.

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Interesting. I did read a rumour about the planned opening scene and wondered how on earth they'd achieve it without absurd levels of CGI. Seems they might have abandoned the idea, ala Luke's floating hand in TFA.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Does 14 cues in the first reel indicate lots of re-edits to anyone else? The TFA cue list was similarly confusing with its slate numbers.


I wouldn’t try to read too much into those numbers: the numbers go as high as 14 for each reel of The Book Thief, but I don’t think it had a lot of revisions or anything out of the ordinary.

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Good point. Even a relatively straightforward score like Munich has a messy cue list. The slate numbers are cumulative for the entire film and don't reset with each reel. Does 8M220, for example, correlate to reel 8, scene 220 of the entire film?

 

Quote

1m3A Gaining Entry
1m19 Broadcast Report
1m21 Hatikva
2m52 Bonding
2m59 Drawing Straws
2m60 Stalking Carl
2m60NEW Stalking Carl
4m116A BA Hotel Room Bomb
R6m157 Greek Hotel
6m164
6m173 The Death of Eli
6m202 Finding Carl
7m190 London Rain (Overlay)
7m194 From Bus to Helicopter
7m207 The Death of Jeannette
7m211 Avner Alone and Death of Robert
7m211N Paranoia and Roberts Death
8m216 Explosion and News of Robert
8m220 Meeting with Louis
8m272 End Credit

 

Whereas on other scores, the cue slates reset to 1 at the start of each new reel:

 

Quote

1m2 The Arrival At Coruscant – 1:27
1m3 Thwarted Attempt – 3:45
1m4 The Meeting Of Anakin and Padme – 1:29
1m5 She Hardly Recognized Me – 0:56
1m6 Zam’s Dirty Trick – 3:42
1m7A Zam Chase Pt. 1 – 3:32
1m7B Zam In Pursuit – 3:09
2m1 Zam Is Eliminated – 4:02
2m2 Palpatine’s Plotting – 4:32
2m3 Departure – 1:44
2m5 The Library Scene – 1:14
2m6 Lunch and the Younglings – 3:55
2m7 Approaching Naboo Palace – 2:21
3m1 Finding Kamino – 1:35
3m1 Insert – 0:30
3m2 Visiting The Prime Minister – 0:48
3m3 The First Kiss – 1:57
3m4 Interior Tipoca City – 1:55
3m5 The Meadow Scene – 2:29
3m5 Insert – 0:35
3m6 The Meeting With Fett – 2:44
3m7 The Dinner Scene – 3:56
3m8 Rainy Ramp and Anakin’s Nightmare – 2:45

 

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

Interesting. I did read a rumour about the planned opening scene and wondered how on earth they'd achieve it without absurd levels of CGI. Seems they might have abandoned the idea, ala Luke's floating hand in TFA.

Could you post a link? I’d like to read these rumors :) 

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I'd like to think one of John's minders politely tapped him on the shoulder and reminded him he already pulled that trick for ROTS.

 

Somehow I don't see it happening. I think this will be a totally original suite, if only for the fact that he can't incorporate Rey's Theme into something repurposed wholesale from the OT (and the incorporation of Rey's Theme into the coda of both previous credits suites was clearly something John put a lot of thought into).

 

Plus, he's mentioned spending a lot of time with JJ figuring out how to 'put a bow on the whole saga,' which I've interpreted as him writing a suite that wraps up the whole saga.

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I think with ROTS it was also a matter of JW not having a lot of time and 2005 being very busy for him. Now he’s had all the time to write something truly new.

 

 

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Yep, another good point. He moved straight on to War of the Worlds (which had an extremely tight schedule as it was).

 

Interestingly I recall John saying he'd love to finish off the Indy saga with a big suite of all the themes if he ever returned for another one (this is before Indy 4), which didn't come to pass in 2008 -- and he had all the time in the world to score that film.

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Hopefully JJ got in his ear about a proper end credits suite, like he did in TFA.

 

If the rumours are true about TLJ's end credits originally being the new Han Solo and the Princess arrangement, imagine what could've been....

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JKMS works on dozens of scores every year, there is literally no reason to assume that post is about Episode IX.  @crumbs I think you’re getting way, way ahead of yourself!

 

EDIT: I was wrong and crumbs was right.  All hail crumbs!!

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41 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

JKMS works on dozens of scores every year, there is literally no reason to assume that post is about Episode IX.  @crumbs I think you’re getting way, way ahead of yourself!

 

Seriously? You can't see the letterhead with STAR WARS: EPISODE IX on the top left of the sheet music? Even blurry it's pretty clear that's the text, doubly so considering the timeline of the sessions (Williams headed back to LA at the end of August to wrap up the score; six weeks seems about right to have the last cues finished).

 

And how many other composers would be recording a score right now with a 300 bar end credits suite? I can't think of many other composers who even bother writing fully orchestrated end credits suites these days.

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5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Seriously? You can't see the letterhead with STAR WARS: EPISODE IX on the top left of the sheet music?

 
I do see it now!!!!  Woo hoo!!  I was just being cautious.
 

Now, how many of those bars are the Throne Room pasted in the middle? :thinking emoji:

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Here's the URL of the instagram picture, is it possible to fiddle with it to have it return a higher resolution version?

 

 

https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/8be721b3b0cb019c7fd72596ab957da3/5E1C3B21/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/71191239_394274251251964_4561245745896028478_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=104

 

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16 minutes ago, Jay said:

Here's the URL of the instagram picture, is it possible to fiddle with it to have it return a higher resolution version?

 

I don't believe so. This is the image at its highest resolution, according to DownloadGram:

1JsFoof.jpg

 

 

11 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Last word "ship/s" maybe?

 

First word kind of looks like "podrace"....

 

Falcon's Last Flight ? :(

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10 hours ago, crumbs said:

Interesting. I did read a rumour about the planned opening scene and wondered how on earth they'd achieve it without absurd levels of CGI. Seems they might have abandoned the idea, ala Luke's floating hand in TFA.

Reshooting the entire first scene seems to imply there was a big problem. I dunno, maybe that's not unusual in filmmaking these days.

 

BTW, my wife loves your avatar. She thinks it's adorbs, just like your previous cat one!

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The thing that would excite me that most at this stage (a stage with no new music actually available to hear) would be the confirmation of a ten-minute end credits (maybe longer if joined to closing scene a la VII). Amazingly, that is just what this tweet confirms.  Bring it on.  

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12 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

 

Tempi and meter make a big difference, but here's some points of comparison:

 

Episode IV: 180 measures (~3:45)

Episode V: 144 measures (~4:30)

Episode VI: 202 measures (~6:00)

Episode VII: 224 measures (~6:40)

so...

 

Episode IV: 180 measures (~3:45) -> 0,8 bar / sec -> 1.25s/bar

Episode V: 144 measures (~4:30) -> 0,53 bar / sec -> 1.88s/bar

Episode VI: 202 measures (~6:00) -> 0,56 bar / sec -> 1.78s/bar

Episode VII: 224 measures (~6:40) -> 0,56 bar / sec -> 1,79s/bar

 

let's assume a margin of rounding up or down to be 30

 

we have 270-330 bars, each likely lasting ~1,8s.

 

The duration of the End Suite from The Rise of Skywalker is thus somewhere between 486 and 594s; between 8:06 and 9:54, with an average (verbatim) estimate of 9:00.

 

A more conservative estimate (they didn't say "nearly 300" or "over 300") would narrow it down to 290-310 bars; between 8:42 and 9:18.

 

 

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Let's suppose this is indeed from TROS and the cue sheet is 1M14. It indicates a lot of cues for just one reel of movie!

 

For example, let's assume each reel contains 20 minutes of movie. Cue 1M1 is probably the main title we already know, and considering it lasts about 1 minute and 20 seconds, that leaves us with 18m40s of reel left.

 

So, if 1M1 is the main title, there's about 13 cues (14 - 1) to fill 18 minutes 40 seconds of movie. Divided by 13, and we have an average of 1 minute and 26 seconds per cue.

 

So, whatever the initial sequence is, Williams is scoring it (probably by Abrams' request) with very little cues, even for Williams standards. His cues usually have what, 2, 3 minutes on average?

 

On the other hand, this could be also 4M34.

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15 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Let's suppose this is indeed from TROS and the cue sheet is 1M14. It indicates a lot of cues for just one reel of movie!

 

For example, let's assume each reel contains 20 minutes of movie. Cue 1M1 is probably the main title we already know, and considering it lasts about 1 minute and 20 seconds, that leaves us with 18m40s of reel left.

 

So, if 1M1 is the main title, there's about 13 cues (14 - 1) to fill 18 minutes 40 seconds of movie. Divided by 13, and we have an average of 1 minute and 26 seconds per cue.

 

So, whatever the initial sequence is, Williams is scoring it (probably by Abrams' request) with very little cues, even for Williams standards. His cues usually have what, 2, 3 minutes on average?

 

On the other hand, this could be also 4M34.

from: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25913-the-force-awakens-complete-score-breakdown-chronological-order-film-spoilers-allowed/

image.png

The first 14 cues from TFA are 22:15 in duration, 1:36 on average. Nothing extraordinary. They will be combined into longer tracks.

 

Btw. to me it's a definite 1M14.

image.png

 

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Aha, except those are not official cue names nor are they where the cues JW wrote actually start and stop.  Those were my own made up names for where I noticed music starting and stopping in the final cut, which is a result of JJ and the music editors chopping up and moving around what JW wrote and dialing out sections, etc.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Aha, except those are not official cue names nor are they where the cues JW wrote actually start and stop.  Those were my own made up names for where I noticed music starting and stopping in the final cut, which is a result of JJ and the music editors chopping up and moving around what JW wrote and dialing out sections, etc.

Ok. I didn't know that. Is there any official data that we could use?

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Yes, later on in the same thread you quoted from.  We still don't know a lot of detail, but more information is available now.  I just haven't cleaned up anything in the main post with it yet

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image.png

In TFA there are 8 reels; in total 75(?) cues.

 

Over 9 per reel. One of the longest reels in TFA might even be over 10. 

 

The problem in TROS is, if the first cue is 1:20, the 14th is ca. 9:00, and a reel is 20 minutes, then it leaves Williams with 10 minutes total for another 12 cues.

What we might get is lots of chopped music that is not allowed "to soar", I'm afraid :(. Hopefully the next reels give maestro more space. Space is very important in star wars.

 

 

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Maybe Abrams prefers to work with smaller cues, to facilitate editing? 

 

I did a few calculations using Jay's spreedsheets to figure out the average duration of the cues of some of the more recent Williams scores:

 

Jurassic Park: 2m46s with the end titles and 2m35s excluding the end titles suite*

 

The Lost World: 3m09s with the end titles and 3m08s excluding the end titles suite

 

Philosopher's Stone: 2m59s with the two suites (Harry Woundrous World and Hedwig's Theme) and 2m53s excluding them

 

Attack of the Clones: 2m21s with the end titles and 2m16s excluding the end titles suite

 

Minority Report: 2m35s with the end titles and 2m29s excluding the end titles suite

 

Indy 4: 1m56s with the end titles and 1m50s excluding the end titles suite

 

So, an average of 1m25s - 1m30s as we are estimating for TROS seems to be a little below the average for Williams.

 

*The End Titles are longer cues on most cases, so I decided to calculate with and without them.

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