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Neither trilogy is representative of good film music, so I'm not really sure what the point of this poll is. You might as well be comparing polio to smallpox. It's well-established that leitmotif is a fundamentally flawed approach to scoring film, as it embraces a kind of audiovisual literalism at the expense of communicative coherence, expressive economy, and intellectual illumination. Missing from Williams's and Shore's jumbled efforts is the discipline and attention to dramatic structure brilliantly exemplified by Jerry Goldsmith in Forever Young, which is, by any objective measure, a candidate for one of the ten best scores of all time. In it Goldsmith pens two themes delineating love and flight and plays them beautifully off one another, carefully developing a poignant synergy and a keen architectural unity that invest the film's finale with singular resonance.

This score has certainly grown on me over the years . . . though it hasn't quite connected with me internally on the "masterpiece" level. (I don't preclude the possibility of that ever happening, of course. Some scores "awaken" to us, even after listening to them for years with no such effect.) There's no denying that it's one of his most evocative works. It plays as much on a transcendent level as it does a conscious one; maybe that's what makes it harder for some folks to engage with. It's got a greater range than might be immediately obvious, too, going from emotionally strained and desperate ("Abandoned in the Woods"), to whimsical ("Hide and Seek"—a piece I've always considered the "For Gillian" of this score), to action-oriented ("The Moon Rising"), to deeply haunting ("Replicas"), to ethereally inspiring ("Search for the Blue Fairy" and "The Reunion"). I think its effectiveness, particularly in the latter passages, was best summed up just now: That's about it. For a lot of people, it might sound like eclectic mush—especially those who're hooked on Williams' knack for catchy themes and motifs—but it has a certain rightness to it that can't be denied. It's not just because it's soft and gentle, either. The same approach in Always didn't work nearly as well. Maybe because it's so patiently developed here (an aspect helped along by Spielberg's sometimes pedantic pace in the film itself), or maybe because it's attempting to appeal to something on a deeper emotional level than much of Williams' music does. I don't know. I can't say that it doesn't work for me, or for the movie; maybe it just hasn't worked all the way in yet. Maybe another viewing of the movie will help, since I've only seen it the one time. . . . I will say that "For Always" is one of my all-time favorite songs written for a movie. Its passion is sublime, and the performance is amazing.

My favorite Williams score. It's a glimpse into eternity, as stupid as that might sound.

You may not have known it by name as a concert work "The Planets", but it would be almost impossible for you not to have at least heard bits of Mars or Jupiter in your lifetime, even by accident. By the way.... POST NUMBER 5000!!!!!!!! Being a member for so long, it's a milestone that I wanted to reach.

Well, I hope the incoming results of this poll have made Ricard and KM feel all warm and fuzzy again inside. Their little annual pick-me-up, as it were. Justice served.

Has to do with all the inflated ape love for the movies which has spread over to the music which in turn has to be brilliant, landmark-y and what have you. STAR WARS is totally over-exposured, overanalyzed and overpraised - on these pages anyway - but if you take the musical craftmanship and inspiration that went into it, it's just on another plane. There's so much dead air in LOTR - its dreams of grandiosity often crushed by the simple construction which in turn is covered by sheer size (more choir!! more choir!!). On the other hand, i have my generous selection of both trilogies and why would i part with one of them?

Just so it is posted in this thread as well, Michael Giacchino is doing the music for Jurassic World! See this thread for more details in case you missed it. In other news (I kind of slacked for a while), not too much has happened that I can reveal (I actually know some information that hasn't been released that is quite awesome... let me just say that this film is going to be AWESOME in scope). But here was some that was on that Reel Tours Facebook. For starters, this shack was spotted close by the water, and apparently it is actually a set! The word on the street is that it is something that Pratt's character lives in. Interesting. And here it is in perspective to the helipad set: Here is an aerial shot of a paddock set that was apparently built. Interesting... But this is the real kicker here... check... it... out... There is also some speculation as to why there are only some vehicles completely covered by tarps so people can't see them, and what they may resemble... In addition to that, it was revealed casting for "thousands" of extras in New Orleans is happening, for when the shooting starts there (apparently at what was an abandoned Six Flags park... that is either spruced up to look shiny and new in some way... or is left to look in ruins like it previously had been). Apparently there has been more casting for "military" characters as well. As for the Hawaii sets, apparently once the footage is reviewed all the sets will be struck down. Filming at Oahu is apparently now done... but now they have started filming on Kauai, where a lot of the first Jurassic was filmed. Apparently one of the locations the crew is currently nearby is the same area where the Visitor Center once stood... Also, some of my online friends started a Jurassic World Podcast (which may feature an outro/intro I edited that could be pretty kickass) that will reveal some exclusive info that won't appear anywhere else, including their own site that has posted lots of news, JurassicWorld.org. One of the things discussed in their first episode is a little something that will be in the film called "Gallimimus Valley". Hmm...

On Thursday June 12th, brass players from many of the major orchestras in the US (Cleveland, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, San Francisco, L.A., Detroit,many Chicago's orchestras are all represented) will gather in California as the "National Brass Ensemble" to perform a concert of music by the renaissance composer Gabrielli, which is exciting on it's own! How does this relate to us? Apparently John Williams was commissioned to write a new work for brass especially for this occasion. I believe this performance is supposed to be recorded as well. This ought to be incredible. Check out the link! http://gmc.sonoma.edu/event/2170779-national-brass-ensemble-in-concert

I mean come on, it is bloody beastly. Just the tempo alone is badass.

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Excellent choice, Hilly ... Moore's Bond in a rare cold 'n' ruthless moment.

Yes, the choral writing in the first two minutes of the "city under ice" sequence was the moment that made this score something extraordinarily special to me. There's a lot of talk about John's themes feeling "inevitable", and the usual examples pointed to are Indy, SW, Superman... I think those two minutes are the best example. It's music that sounds like it has always existed.

The whole sequence from To Manhattan - Where Dreams Are Born (End Credits) is my highlight reel. It's got it all!

The Search for the Blue Fairy, Stored Memories and the Mecca World are among my all time favorite pieces of music. And that melancholic Piano theme, which is totally absent from the OST (which I'm not sure what it represents) is JW's greatest unreleased theme

Yeah, but that's the only think it had. Karol

Really? I've always considered the Asteroid Field theme to be a tongue in cheek expansion of the Rebel Fanfare, it's the last two notes that have always done that for me, a stagecoach getaway with Solo at the helm. The glue surrounding it is (imo) based and built on material introduced to us throughout the snow battle. So while it still works as a stand alone piece, in terms of musical narrative we've been prepared with all of these scrap yard ideas, so when we do make our getaway you can feel the urgency as the musical glue is barely holding our theme together which is what makes it so exciting and effective in the movie .......for me at least.

I already have May 2024 marked on my calendar for post number 10,000

Nonsense. Same stylistic ground perhaps but not the same theme by a long shot. And yes it is one of Williams' most beautiful themes in the noughties. I know I am stating the obvious but the score needs a complete release quite badly. The album is not one of JWs best arrangements. Especially the note-for-note repetition of a lot of the material found on the CD in the end credits is of particular fault. El Cid by Miklós Rózsa (Tadlow re-recording): Vintage Rózsa with intoxicating and rousing musical architecture full of passion and intricacy. I have to say this might be my favourite score by the composer and the Tadlow presentation is a must have for any fan of his.

For me a setpiece is an extended and isolated cue which may or may not incorporate elements from the wider score. Boiling it down to precisely what I consider a setpiece to be: it's normally the moment/s in the score where the composer wants to be noticed. A cue they deliberately intend to stand out from the rest of the underscore, a cue which has the composer's signature front and centre. More often than not they tend to be thrilling or suspenseful moments in both the music and the movie.

I'll give you some anti-FSM by doing verbose praise of both LotR and Star Wars. Prepare your sick bags 'cause saccharine is going to fly willy nilly over this MB when I get going!

Thomas Newman - Angels in America I listened to some of my favorite cues (namely "Threshold of Revelation", "Ellis Island", "Ozone", "Bayeux Tapestry", "Mauve Antarctica", "Bethesda Fountain", and "Tropopause") the other night. I had all the lights out but the room wasn't really dark thanks to the street lights. That music, some nice warm cup of chocomilk, and the calm atmosphere of the house really helped me cool down after the long and stressful day I had. Kudos to Thomas Newman.

Just the worse music.

I never really participated in this thread because I was always behind in the show, and I hate spoilers...but I just thought I'd pop in now to state the obvious: this show is really damn good. Once I finally finished the final episodes, I couldn't resist the temptation to immediately go back and start over from the beginning again. God, "Ozymandias" was so brutal and heartwrenching that it almost made me feel sick. I actually had to watch an episode of Malcolm in the Middle afterward, just because I needed to see Bryan Cranston not being Walter White. This show really does demonstrate the importance of - as that poster said - chemistry. There's a near-perfect confluence of casting, writing, directing, acting, cinematography, editing, and music here, and you really need all these elements (no pun intended) for the show to become exceptional. There may have been a few missteps here and there, but this has got to be one of the most perfect works of cinematic storytelling the human race has produced so far. Metástasis, on the other hand...well, from what I've seen, it seems the best thing about it is the title.

I think the LOTR scores are Howard Shore's very best work, my favorite of the 21st century, and an obvious landmark in film music history, arguably the most recent work to hit such a high standard as to merit "all-time great" discussion. John Williams has surpassed them over his career with a handful of his scores, but I'm not totally sure I'd count Star Wars among them. They're close enough for it not to matter IMO, and at any rate, both are well-deserving of their acclaim. I've always been a little surprised that the LOTR scores have as many detractors as they do on here.

I think Star Wars is the superior score, but The Lord of the Rings is the superior work. I know that sounds strange, but bear with me! To me, Williams is the better composer and always will be. But! And it's a big but, the level of detail and narrative structure that Shore managed to create in the year he dedicated to LOTR is simply stupefying! He really pushed the limits of what he was capable of as a composer and Shore's trilogy literally was a hell of lot more work than either Star Wars trilogy has been for Williams. LOTR may not have the same polish or finesse that Star Wars has, but I think it more than makes up for that fact in the pure sincerity of the blood, sweat and tears that went into that monstrous production.

This seems to be just the latest attempted show of dominance by the portion of this community that is more inclined towards confrontation and territoriality, and less inclined to accept ideas that don't conform to their own notions of truth. Witness the emphasis on *really* in the question, and Joey's asserted "knowledge." Utter surety in the face of disagreement; such delusions of privileged understanding are common in these situations. Fascinating. Let's observe more.

You had me until that. It's the best of the three, pardner.

Have we not? I feel like we have....maybe its just the fact that people like to pit Shore's LotR with just about every Williams classic ever written, as if they're destined to be sworn enemies forever. I can appreciate both, and love them both dearly. And I don't see why our "obsession" is bothering you so.

one of them at any rate:

someonefun is NOT fun!

I could go on forever! BTW, is that Olivia Newton John's best song I hear playing in the background?

Like I've said many times, I just want new Williams music. As much as possible. If Star Wars is the way to get that, then so be it! It'll probably turn out great.

The old ways are gone. Zimmer and his MIDI keyboards have successfully snubbed out any hint of creativity there was left. Gia still caries the torch for "good old fashioned" orchestral music, but he simply lacks the talent and finesse of the masters he chose to emulate. *swigs from bottle* Do you...remember Ricard. The 80's. The 90's. Every year you's get a new score from the likes of Silvesti, Goldsmith, Kamen, Poledouris... *Belches* Sure...not everyone of them was a new "The Final Conflict" or "Brazil", but they would put out consistently enjoyable works. Distinctive of the composers own personal style. *Whipes face with sleeve* In those days composers didnt try to all sound the same, or conform to a certain popular style. And they were real composers! How the fuck do people like Henry Jackman or Ramin Djawadi get to do the big summer block buster scores that used to be done by people who's music had character...personality??? A Michael Kamen score..... *swigs from bottle, booze goes into lungs, all but trows up* A Michael Kamen score had a certain style. It was distinctly different from one written by Goldsmith, or Poledouris, Horner, JW etc. And Kamen's scores were recognizably his own. Sounding like Kamen, even if they were as different as Die Hard and The Three Musketeers are...you can hear the composers fingerprints. *stares into screen for minutes* That's what is missing these days!

But wouldn't that be so like John Williams? I can already imagine Laurent Bouzereau producing it and putting this in liner notes: John Williams, the master dramatist, has finally composed a score for his dedicated fan network, building an architecture of exquisite themes for each major member of the fandom in the process. These magnificent themes and motific identifications performed by the glorious London Symphony Orchestra are now recorded and produced into a massive 10 hour opera of colour, magic and enchantment. But John Williams taught me that you don't have to hear any of the music to enjoy it so we compiled this special "nothing" for all the JWfan.com to enjoy while we store the digital sessions into a vault in Nevada that could withstand a nuclear blast and simply let them date and gather mold in the cold darkness. That is the genius of letting me produce these things.