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And even with the intricate compositional approach Goldsmith employs the release is proof that complete releases are MUSICALLY seldom a good idea: too much repetition, too many cues that are purely in service of a short film scene without adding much to the basic core. And 'The Omen' is one of the better ones in that regard. As for my final and a bit more positive impression of JNH's latest: It has a few major weak spots and is in dire need of pruning but as far as full-blown traditional fantasy scores go, this may be as good as it gets nowadays. This mark is earned mostly by one virtue that other candidates in this category traditionally now lack which is a solid and fun thematic base (minus the banal 'Polar Express' lift that underperforms for the last third of the album). That a lot of it is second-hand in nature shouldn't really bother many - it didn't in case of Williams' first two Potters - as there is a sizeable amount of colourful, painterly writing in a grand and sweeping style that after Horner's passing almost seems to be a greeting card from a bygone era. 'Fantastic Beasts' comes without the authoritative academic Williams polish but JNH actually manages quite well to emulate the frothy, Dickensian Potter universe (very obviously in cues like 'There Are Witches Among Us 'and 'Tina Takes Newt in' but also the vigorous 'The Erumpent' or the more faux-dramatic 'The Demiguise and the Occamy'). The little rag tags for the New York 1920's setting at least give these parts some flavour beyond the 'Home Alone (2)' feel, the one score Williams & Co. since 1992 always use as a template for this sort of thing (the first 'Home Alone' remains more unique due to a more chamber-sized approach). Throw in some more clearly identifiable JNH into mix (the use of choir, the more modern, sequencer-ized rhythmic base, the electronic enhancement, the bouncy fanfares) and you got a great first half and beyond. The last third introduces quite a bit of homely sentiment and grand orchestral gestures that are unfortunately not as successful: minus the playful ditties of the first half, the broad strokes of the purposely HUGE and operatic parts feel as empty as Hollywood blockbuster scoring is bound to be these days. it's bigness for bigness's sake and betrays the more charming first half. Apart from borrowing the main theme from 'Polar Express' wholesale (which in turn reeks of 'Edward Scissorhands', a perennial temp track favourite for these kind of movies) there's just not much to a whopper of a cue like 'Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases the Thunderbird / Jacob’s Farewell' (almost 13 minutes, few of which you really need). What really saves the album release from the shortcomings are the DeLuxe edition's suites based on the main material so you can open and finish the score like a good Williams album ('A Man and His Beasts' is really the overture, while the two-part end title is a good closure with the wonderful reworking of the 'Kowalski Rag' can be put as either a coda or in the middle as a 'Dobby The House Elf' kind of breather). So, with a bit of effort in editing you got quite a great christmas score in your hands. My advice for editing mainly concerns dropping at least half of the shorter cues on both albums - quite easy to figure out which are mere padding, like 4, 5 and 8 - and edit the middle half of 'There are Witches s among us', lose the first two minutes of 'Tina and Newt Trial' so the result will be a nice 70 minute album.

This score is just so wonderful. Easily one of my top 5 this year, and gets better with each listen. I really love the theme from “A Man and his Beasts”. Hoping it gets expanded and much more development in the upcoming films. The action cues are fantastic, especially “The Obscurus/Rooftop Chase”. Love those dark Maleficent-esque choral moments. “Newt Releases the Thunderbird” is tear-jerkingly beautiful. And the jazz-based cues provide contrast and are fun too. I won’t be able to watch the film until it gets released on Blu-ray, which I can’t wait for. I really hope JNH scores the entire franchise. It’ll be a real treat.

I was back in Potterland when the Macusa cue started. So glorious. It was totally worth the wait and I'm very glad I heard it in the cinema first.

As a side note, am I the only one who's impressed by the rather daring approach of the filmmakers here? I mean, look at TFA compared to this. That was almost a remake. This is something that feels very different than anything Potter before it. It did not use a single fan-favorite character -- even Newt and Grindelwald, for example, are probably known well only by the most die hard fans. Whereas the TFA approach would be to have Dumbledore as the main character, Fantastic Beasts holds him for future films, and merely name drops him! And Harry, Ron, and Hermione are nowhere to be seen! The New York setting, and presumably the Paris setting of the next film, are very different than remote Hogwarts, as well. The character and sense of time and place are clear and unique. I loved TFA. I'll say that. I'm not sure I can say which of the two I like better, but I think there's no doubt which was the more daring one. Much less blatant nostalgic fan service (however fun that may be!), although there were of course some scattered Easter eggs for the die hards (name dropping "Lestrange," for example). Rowling's extremely heavy involvement might have something to do with it. Who knows. I suppose in that way this film might be more comparable to GL's daring TPM, although I think filmmaking is very different now than it was then -- "franchises" from major studios rule, etc. -- so a TFA comparison might still be more apt. EDIT: Oh, just saw the second film will be in both the U.K. and Paris. Rowling has already written the screenplay. I think it will be good. But I feel that if Rowling's involvement lessens over time, things could go more in the TFA fan service direction.

Well the hype isn't hurting any of that, I'm sure, but it's just a great and effective score regardless of that.

Oh no, I want more Tina! And I'm afraid that JNH will have to dump his magical aspects if the films become darker. What does everyone have with dark films these days?

Decided to post this here too: Just got back from the film. Wow. What an experience. No Rogue One trailer unfortunately, but that was about the only bad thing. The opening scene... It was right then that I knew this was going to be an incredible ride. The surround sound blasting out Hedwig's Theme over the WB logo, then this incredible theme over the title, I think (I'm a little confused about the sequence of music to picture here, I thought I remembered that theme over the newspapers but it doesn't make any sense), followed by the jarring sound effects over the mysterious Grindelwald attack, then finally the joyful ostinato and triumphant, gorgeous statement of the main theme over the wide shot of New York and Newt's arrival. Especially for that figure over the title, the music was mixed so loud it was wonderful. The rest of the film did not disappoint either. The 20s character was really cool. It was light hearted, but also dark enough to set up an intriguing conflict that can continue over five (!) films. Some of the action got a little grating, and some of the blasting sound effects made my stomach churn -- but of course that also meant that I was hearing this in lovely surround sound, which I don't have at home so it's always a really special treat!! The music was absolutely marvelous. Certainly, it makes way more of an impression in the film than, say, The BFG. The MACUSA intro was stunning as well. So was "Inside the Case," which played over a scene that really brought the fantasy element of Potter, as well as the gorgeous scene in "Newt Releases the Thunderbird," which is almost a graceful dance, only picture and music. As should be the case in a fantasy film, JNH got many chances to shine, and it was glorious. Of course, there are moments where terrific music is overshadowed by sound effects -- for example, the Christmas-y stuff in "The Erumpet" was almost impossible to hear, unfortunately. And of course, the "End Titles" were glorious too. Just the music, blasting out of the speakers, fanfares heralding the end of an adventure. The end credits music is as follows, I believe: End Titles End Titles, Pt. 2 The soaring part of Newt Releases the Thunderbird The jazzy end of A Man and His Beasts Some emotional quieter music (maybe Newt Says Goodbye to Tina) Hedwig's Theme was used three times, two of which are on the OST. One is over the opening WB logo, the second is when Newt is holding one of his creatures in the bank early in the film, I believe, and I can't remember what the third covers.

I get a lovely nostalgic "member the cantina band" feeling at 1:14 - 1:22.

"Death Stat motif" haha Mon Mothma: "The death stats are in, the empire has claimed an unimaginable number of lives..." *Death Stat Motif plays...*

Haters are always more vocal than lovers. For example, people read bad reviews for movies more than good reviews, and the most popular movie related youtube channels are ones that negatively talk about people and films. E.g. Red Letter Media, Honest Trailers, Cinemasins etc. No one really watches youtube film reviews of people praising a film. Negativity is unfortunately more popular than positivity. Basically every single story on the news is negative. The world is full of it. So clearly those on here who dislike a composer, simply wont shut up about it because they think that more people will read their opinion than if they were praising someone.

man this was a lovely return to form. I haven't seen a movie in so long that's dipped back everything and just let the music tell the story. I definitely hear the similarities between Ice Dance and the 'Letting Go' theme but I think I actually prefer the latter, it just seems to soar more with a more powerful feeling of tragedy. I'm going to write off scores more often if I'm going to be pleasantly surprised like this !

What I loved was how the music flowed through the film. It didn't seem to have been cut/edited to the picture

Yeah I created one too!

JW and Howard Shore and a few others are the exception to the rule, not the rule. More often than not orchestrators do a ton of work, its on a JW pic that they don't, because JW is the rare composer that writes meticously detailed sketches so that the orchestrators on his films don't REALLY have to do any orchestrating, they are, ineed, more like copyists. But for the MAJORITY of films, especially ttoday, the orchestrators do a lot of, well, orchestrating.

Damn! Well done, Sir.

I thought the opening of Fantastic Beasts was really iconic.

Is London already confirmed? That would be great! I was surprised that I ended up loving the US setting but 'just 'ope zat ze next film won't sond like zis'.

I listen to In The Cells and wonder what the hell happened during The Hunger Games. I pick that cue because on paper it feels like it should be the dullest cue in the score, but it's absolutely not.

I don't believe that. It'd be very unRowling to dump characters like that. I'm confident they'll all be in the future films. (Jacob and Queenie could die I guess) but they'll definitely be heavily involved. From what Yates has already said it sounds like Dumbledore only has a small role in the second film and they're all with Newt. We also need a Niffler spinoff series. Deleted scenes info http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/fantastic-beasts-films-deleted-scenes-tease-newt-tina-credences-fates-and-futures-105804/

In terms of memorability, this score is knocking the crap out of The BFG for me, which is just more 'safe' JW fantasy scoring, which failed to make any impression on me. Not accounting for tastes, or lack of any music theory knowledge, this is hands down the better score.

The Dying Swan motif. Gorgeous.

The third is when they are in the zoo. The two uses of Hedwig's theme in the film are a bit random. The first one isn't so bad but the one in the zoo is really random. The one over the titles makes sense.

Just heard A Man and His Beasts. Now that's much more like it. Will probably have to do some album editing for future visits of this score.

First of all, we need to agree on what the definition of "iconic" even is. Relax, I read the thread, I just wanted to push your buttons. This is a question that has been asked for ages. Brahms was asked about what his impact will be after his death and his thoughts are worth reading. Here I quote him: "I will not find my true place in musical history until at least half a century after I am gone. Bach died in 1750 and he was completely forgotten until Mendelssohn revived him, more than 75 years later. And it was more than a hundred years after his death that Joachim succeeded in popularizing his monumental works for solo violin [Chaccone]. Also, the stupendous Beethoven violin concerto was neglected for fully fifty years after his death until Joachim revealed its wonders to the musical world." Brahms was asked to list prominent composers of his day and he recites a list of names that are forgotten to time. He disliked the then popular composer Anton Rubinstein finding his music lazy but people in that time would have predicted Rubinstein to outlast Brahms. Brahms also mentions a promising youth, Richard Strauss, who he predicted shows promise and was worth watching. Side note: early in Strauss's career, he was very traditional and a stylistic disciple of Brahms and the Strauss we know today happened after Brahms. Here are the Billboard top 10 songs from 1950. How many do you recognize? January 7, 1950 Gene Autry "Rudolph, The Red-nosed Reindeer" N/A 1 January 14, 1950 The Andrews Sisters "I Can Dream, Can't I" N/A 4 February 11, 1950 Ames Brothers "Rag Mop" N/A 1 February 18, 1950 Red Foley "Chattanoogie Shoe Shine Boy" N/A 4 March 18, 1950 Teresa Brewer "Music! Music! Music!" N/A 4 April 15, 1950 Eileen Barton "If I Knew You Were Comin' I'd've Baked a Cake" N/A 2 April 29, 1950 Anton Karas "The Third Man Theme" N/A 11 July 15, 1950 Nat King Cole "Mona Lisa (Nat King Cole song)" N/A 5 August 19, 1950 Gordon Jenkins and The Weavers "Goodnight Irene"♪ (1950) N/A 13 November 18, 1950 Sammy Kaye "Harbor Lights" N/A 2 December 2, 1950 Phil Harris "The Thing" N/A 4 December 30, 1950 Patti Page "The Tennessee Waltz" N/A 9 I will assume maybe 70 to 80% of the best songs of 1950 have been forgotten. Meanwhile, we do see some promising songs by Elvis, Rosemary Clooney, Perry Como, Everly Brothers, etc., during this same period and who did withstand the test of time. Sometimes great impact is recognized immediately but other times it takes a slow burn waiting for someone else like The Beatles to parlay their influence and explain their origins as being based on their predecessors. Basically, the same is true in all mediums including film, concert music, film music, architecture, literature, TV (Star Trek) etc. It is also amusing when history got it really wrong. “We find Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony to be precisely one hour and five minutes long; a frightful period indeed, which puts the muscles and lungs of the band, and the patience of the audience to a severe trial…” –The Harmonicon, London, April 1825 The point is what is ultimately considered iconic (or lets say stands the test of time) requires some passage of time to be evaluated within fuller context and cultural impact plus a stylistic impact to subsequent body of art. I think the least important consideration is how the work was originally received. Many things are thought that they will be highly regarded but are forgotten.

E.T. would certainly seem to be an iconic and beloved film, yet it has become increasingly forgotten and irrelevant with each passing decade. Don't tell me it isn't true. It's more of a cult film these days. The next generation didn't embrace it and the previous generation mostly forgot about the film itself and remember the idea of it, if you will.

In the same way that a soundtrack can be viewed as better simply because it was in a good film or TV show, for instance, Twin Peaks music is not really that great but it stirs a lot of commotion due to the interesting context people attribute the music with, I think people attach extra meaning and context onto movies based on ie. friends, memories, what social reps say, "trends," for example: when can we ever say a certain era had the best music and clothes, as it may have had the worst style and sound of any era, and we look back on it to say what was I doing, but alas. Everyone went along with it because it was big news, it was just the timing of it, what "happened" to be the case due to some random chain of occurrences. In the same sense, why can such bad movies, games, books, etc be remembered, and yet really good ones nobody has even tried or knew existed? It comes down to people with bad taste, and the reason for this is not the inability to recognize depth and quality instead of the styles they're educated to think are cool, or the availability of items and movies sold in their stores, but rather, they aren't given the proper chance to (a) form an original opinion and (b) recognize depth and quality due to social reps valuing marketing more than culture and diversity. Even social reps can be friends, youtubers and popular tv shows taking a look back on old classics, new movies referencing old ones, and just the way the current trends pan out based on many unknowns. It depends much on the individual case, but may tie into social acceptance, ie. everyone liking the same things, a fear of being original and alone in liking something that nobody else does. "If x number of people say it's great, it must be great. If I really love something but everyone hates it, it must actually not be as good as I thought it was." You're asking why this is, but it gets down to the really specific trends we can't actually measure. Workers base their whole livelihoods off of tracking trends and fail all the time at seeing the real reasons behind things.

Perspective shift, I would guess. I find that happens sometimes in artistic pursuits, you try something and think it's not quite right, then work it and rework it and rework it and then weeks, months, years later (or conversely just waking up the next morning) you look back at the first draft and realize your initial instincts were right all along. Turns out you just needed something to compare it to. I've seen directors talk about this in the flimmaking process with actors, where after they put some poor actor through take after take, exploring and looking at the script every which way until they've amassed 15, 20, 30 attempts or more, then they go through all the footage and realize it was never better than the second or third take after all.

The 'Main Titles' with its clumsy, amateurish transitions should never have gotten the blessing of an official release.

I agree. At this juncture I prefer Zimmer.

No company is going to bring out something ambitious just for Google Cardboard. It's a gimmick.

Luke's theme too, of course.

Would have been awesome if this album included music from A TIMELESS CALL (that was not culled from THE UNFINISHED JOURNEY), but fat chance, I know.

An amusing tweet from Jeffrey Wright.

Please, not that bullshity manichean worldview again...

The giacchino badmouthers are pretty vocal in this place. And spread their enloghted views to every single thread where he is mentioned. I, for example have stopped defending him at every opportunity, because i'm tired of the harassment for doing it. It's not worth it. It's you who have to enjoy the music, there is no need of anyone telling you how to.

I've been a silent reader, but often post a thread on nextdoor board, but... It really frustates me that the theme you mentioned ( which itself, you said it, a variation of Kolwalski theme, which in part, is kinda true) is really similar almost note to note and progression to Edward Scissorhands's and in part to The Polar Express it's kinda sad to hear such a blatant temp tracking, and its really disappointing. Still, as a whole, this is a high-4 stars score, helped by some greats moments scattered here and there, and as a welcome back for a more "organic" old-classic JNH