DrewTD 0 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 This is a question that I keep coming back to with the Star Wars sequel trilogy: Will John WIlliams ever record another Star Wars score with the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO) again? While I enjoyed the score for The Force Awakens, I couldn't help but notice that there was just something different about it or missing. Part of it could have been the recording techniques, digital vs. analog, or a host of different variables, but one element I feel that supersedes all of that was the absence of the LSO. Yes, the musicians used to record the score on The Force Awakens I'm sure are world class and likely some of the best in the world, but there is something to be said when comparing a group of musicians that have been put together in a very short amount of time with very little time playing together as a group to record a film score, as opposed to a world class orchestra that has been playing together for years. I also realize that even the musicians in the LSO change over the years, but as a unit, I would bet they have spent much more time playing together than any group of musicians put together to perform on one film score. For me personally, I felt that overall, The Force Awakens score was amazing and the playing was good, but I felt that the cohesion and crispness experienced with the LSO at least on the prequel scores, was lacking. I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this. With the recent news that Williams will be recording the score for Episode VIII on and off now and into early next year, does this signal Williams official departure from the LSO on Star Wars? Do you think we'll ever get another Star Wars score composed and conducted by John Williams with the London Symphony Orchestra? Fingers crossed, I'm hoping we get just one more with the LSO, but of course, I am thankful that we still have John to bless us with new material for Star Wars regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Is the LSO now all the same people that played on all the other LSO Star Wars scores? If not, then who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Oh, I hadn't thought about that, @DrewTD, but yeah, I guess the spread out schedule puts to rest any last speculation about possible LSO involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 17 minutes ago, petaQ said: Is the LSO now all the same people that played on all the other LSO Star Wars scores? If not, then who cares. Fuckin' A! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 We could see more Star Wars music recorded with the LSO, but not with Williams at the helm, I think. Disney Parks has used them for some stuff, I think, but they got Bill Ross or others to take on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,467 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 John Williams hasn't flown to Europe since 2005 and he certainly won't in the future either. Now that he knows very well how the LA musicians played his TFA score, he'll tailor his Ep8 score to their strengths and it will be fine. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,687 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Definitely not. However, if health were to cooperate, I could see Williams recording a mega-suite (or at least the new trilogy) with the LSO for old times sake. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I'm cool with JW sticking with the LA players. They did a great job on TFA and I like the sound of the brass. Max McGuire and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,592 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Only if the LSO comes to the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,364 Posted December 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2016 There's 3 factors at play, from my point of view: 1. Williams will not record another film score outside mainland USA 2. Williams will not allow someone else to conduct an entire film score he wrote (ie. Bill Ross conducting the LSO in London while Williams observes from LA) so long as he is able to conduct himself 3. The LSO cannot be flown to the USA to perform the score, due to the staggered recording schedule And even if the recording schedule wasn't staggered, Disney would balk at paying flights & accommodation for an entire orchestra for 2 weeks ($300,000). Plus it would probably breach union rules. So, no. John Williams seems to be "done" with the LSO on Star Wars. New Star Wars music by John Williams is still new Star Wars music by John Williams, regardless of what orchestra performs it. I'll take Rey's Theme by the LA freelance orchestra over Rey's Theme never existing. Cerebral Cortex, Not Mr. Big and Pieter Boelen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 798 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I'd say no. TFA sounds great to me anyway. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, Sandor said: I'd say no. TFA sounds great to me anyway. Seconded! Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,662 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 No. TFA might sound proficient, technically, but one can "feel" that it's not the LSO. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 49 minutes ago, crumbs said: I'll take Rey's Theme by the LA freelance orchestra over Rey's Theme never existing. Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 45 minutes ago, Richard said: No. TFA might sound proficient, technically, but one can "feel" that it's not the LSO. Wrong, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2016 Yeah I call BS. I bet if when people heard TFA for the first time they were told it was the LSO everyone would be talking about another brilliant Star Wars performance by the LSO. Max McGuire, Unlucky Bastard and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,334 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 People definitely noticed the recording differences, though. Even if they mostly attributed it to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: Wrong, as usual. Everyone knows the Hollywood Symphony is far more versatile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Yeah I call BS. I bet if when people heard TFA for the first time they were told it was the LSO everyone would be talking about another brilliant Star Wars performance by the LSO. I can't speak for "people", but I know that the difference in sound was very noticeable for me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know exactly how much of that is the orchestra and how much is other factors like the room, mic setup, and mixing. But I definitely prefer the sounds of the prequels over TFA. TPM sounds especially fantastic to me. It's got a wetter, more resonant sound that really satisfies. As far as differences in the orchestra itself go, the only individual section that sounds worse to me is the trumpets. The trumpets in all of JW's post-ROTS scores have sounded anemic to me. They never really sing like they used to. I believe it's due to changes in writing style, recording/mixing techniques, AND performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,467 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 3 hours ago, crumbs said: New Star Wars music by John Williams is still new Star Wars music by John Williams, regardless of what orchestra performs it. I'll take Rey's Theme by the LA freelance orchestra over Rey's Theme never existing. Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,592 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 42 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Everyone knows the Hollywood Symphony is far more versatile It's the other way around. Hollywood orchestras may be superior when it comes to technical film score skills, but LSO is one of the most versatile orchestras in the world -- and, IMO, also the one with greatest artistic skills. But I'm not too bummed about them not being used again. FORCE AWAKENS was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 15 hours ago, Tom said: However, if health were to cooperate, I could see Williams recording a mega-suite (or at least the new trilogy) with the LSO for old times sake. That would be cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Datameister said: As far as differences in the orchestra itself go, the only individual section that sounds worse to me is the trumpets. The trumpets in all of JW's post-ROTS scores have sounded anemic to me. They never really sing like they used to. I believe it's due to changes in writing style, recording/mixing techniques, AND performance. It could be that Williams, post-ROTS, got interested in exploring that more thin-like sound for the brass. Or at least he doesn't seem to mind it as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 4 hours ago, mrbellamy said: People definitely noticed the recording differences, though. Even if they mostly attributed it to the players. Exactly this. Had the HSS been flown to London to record at Abbey Road, I reckon very few people would have been able to notice a difference. It takes an extremely discerning and experienced (in person, not just recordings) ear to distinguish between orchestras based on their inherent sound. No offense to anyone here, but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Ive heard that before from people with a music background. And its been my own personal experience also. It's very hard to discern differences between orchestras of a similar skill level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,334 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Muad'Dib said: It could be that Williams, post-ROTS, got interested in exploring that more thin-like sound for the brass. Or at least he doesn't seem to mind it as we do. Or maybe he's old as shit and can't tell the difference anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 That's disrespectful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,334 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 It's refreshing honesty! Alright alright, I'll start wearing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max McGuire 19 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I don't think JW will record with the LSO again, but I'm not too fussed about it. Like others have mentioned, TFA and BGF both sounded exquisite in terms of the recording. Total clarity but no loss of power in the low end. I saw the LSO perform some of TFA during a concert in London a week ago and it was stunning but I didn't think that they could have done a better job of recording it. Most can't describe what the LSO has over the players in LA and I think that is because it doesn't exist, it's just the fact it's the LSO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan_902 141 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 On 03/12/2016 at 10:19 PM, crumbs said: And even if the recording schedule wasn't staggered, Disney would balk at paying flights & accommodation for an entire orchestra for 2 weeks ($300,000). Though you are on point (and assuming your figure is anywhere near correct), compared to the film's final $245m budget, $300,000 is pocket change. If Disney were confident this would appease fans (and in extension, win their custom), them I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to make the investment - the publicity and nostalgia value alone would likely justify it. Though I can't remember where I heard of read this, there was an interview with JW during the press phase where he wanted to specifically credit Michael Gorfaine in his assistance in securing the LA freelance orchestra. This heavily suggests that Williams alone wanted to do it locally, and that neither corporate, political or financial barriers were at play. The logistical barrier of the staggered recording schedule would have been a mandating factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan_902 141 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Yeah, but the thing is, most fans don't give a flying fuck about which orchestra performs the score. The ones who buy the soundtrack might very well do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Frankly, it would be insulting to the Los Angeles musicians to fly in the LSO. Not even taking possible union rule violations into consideration, it would be an insult to the talented musicians who played on TFA. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Of course, being Disney (or indeed any other film company) i would gladly shell out a quarter million $ (if that is even enough) just to satisfy the crazy whims of 150 fuzzy soundtrack fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Maybe it was only recording techniques but TFA (main titles especially) sounded off from my first listen. Luke Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 yeah... i dint like it at all. It sounded like one of the cheap re-recordings. Now i just accept as another variation, like in the OT. At least i hope williams will record it again for ep 8 & 9 and change the orchestration a bit. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,467 Posted December 4, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2016 I do hope they record the Main Titles again for each sequel film instead of reusing the first film's recording like the prequels. Will, DarthDementous and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I would be surprised if they didn't. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,991 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's a bit sad that the LSO can't be part of the new films, but it's not the end of the world. TFA had to be recorded in London with the LSO, but then schedules were reshuffled for a variety of reasons and hence it was decided to record in LA. I'm sure JW is the first to be kind of sad that the LSO isn't part of the SW tradition anymore, but sometimes you have to move on and adapt to the new situation. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 They obviously enjoyed the way the scoring schedule was set up for TFA and deviced to continue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,991 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I guess that's also a consequence of current post-production methods for modern blockbusters. More often than not, composers today have to start writing before seeing a more or less definitive workprint, hence they write and record on and off over the span of a few months as they receive approved sequences. Also, Williams doesn't have a big team working with him, it's still just himself with pencil, paper, piano and a moviola, so he likely needs more time and a less hectic schedule at his age to write properly. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Yes, for a film with a sizeable schedule and budget, this is a perfect way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,915 Posted December 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 5, 2016 The man is going to be 85 years old in two months. Hasn't he earned the right to sleep in his own bed after a long day of work? By that of course I mean they should ship his bed to London while he records with the LSO. Damien F, crumbs, The Psycho Pianist and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,467 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, karelm said: The man is going to be 85 years old in two months. Hasn't he earned the right to sleep in his own bed after a long day of work? By that of course I mean they should ship his bed to London while he records with the LSO. Frankly, it would be insulting to British mattress manufacturers to fly in Williams' Los Angeles bed. Not even taking possible customs law violations into consideration, it would be an insult to the craftsmen who design and produce mattresses for the British people. DarthDementous, Smeltington, Biodome and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Frankly, it would be insulting to British mattress manufacturers to fly in Williams' Los Angeles bed. Not even taking possible customs law violations into consideration, it would be an insult to the craftsmen who design and produce mattresses for the British people. I'm sure the BMMU (British Mattress Manufacturers Union) would launch immediate legal action against Disney. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Can people really tell the difference between the LA musicians and the LSO, or do they just like the idea of the "prestige" of the LSO? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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