The Five Tones 302 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Saw the film not having heard a note of the score beforehand. I try to go in cold and focus on visuals, story, characters, script (such as they are) and let the music hit me organically, ignoring most of it where possible (hard to block out those references to the OT scores). I didn't pick up on there being an A & B structure to it but I noted Han's material is definitely in late Williams style and resembles his material for the sequel trilogy and even prequels in some respects. i.e. very elegant and stately and happily meandering around a minor triad. Perhaps I'm only talking about the initial melody. I wouldn't have known there was a unique cue by JW there, which I guess speaks well for the seamlessness of the collaboration with Powell. I kind of held out hope we would get another old-school perfect-fourth/fifth golden-era theme, and/or one with a stronger harmonic progression. Something in a major key, with a hint of the old Romantic period throwback or Williams the military band composer. Of course, that wouldn't be organic for Williams at this point in his immense journey as a composer. Not to say it isn't quality work as always, but I don't think it is elevated above the film itself. Just my bias though, I can imagine many will love everything about the theme and Powell's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2018 It's a very pleasurable piece to listen to, I will say that. I love how Williams so often has in mind what could be interesting for the actual musicians to play, even in these big blockbuster theme presentations. ChrisAfonso, SteveMc and The Five Tones 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I look forward to hearing the OST (darn Amazon and same-day score release dates!) I suspect I missed a lot underneath sfx and dialogue. And yes, Williams looks after his musicians and his music-only audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 It was an alright score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 454 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Does anyone else think that Lucasfilm gave a montage of footage to Williams, and said: "Write a theme for that"? Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Its perfectly possible. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I got the impression after hearing him talk about it in Boston, that he saw the entire film and wrote the themes as a response to the entire film's contents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted May 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 29, 2018 Then he said: Powell baby, now go back and rewrite the entire score using my awesome new theme. Ricard, Ollie, Falstaft and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Jay said: I got the impression after hearing him talk about it in Boston, that he saw the entire film and wrote the themes as a response to the entire film's contents. I was thinking that from the moment he talked about writing the theme. Its just the way Williams works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Once again, I think we overestimate JW’s influence... I mean, from a logistical point of view he doesn’t need to see the movie to write a theme. Dude could probably do that in his sleep. Nor did Disney want JW to write the full score - or JW didn’t want to. So, from both the creative and business side of things, there’s no point in overdoing it. Doesn’t matter what he said in Boston, whatever hint he gave - the point is not whether he did or didn’t (but I doubt it, but whatever). The point is that I doubt that JW’s seing - or not seing - the flick before writing the theme would have any effect on the quality of the output, especially something as abstract as “Han’s Theme.” That it ties into the movie is a business decision and creatively Powell’s doing. Oh, and by the way, anyone who doesn’t like the tune needs to reevaluate their relationship with JW. It has so many things hidden in the notes. From the Korngold inspired opening, to sounding like Empire, to sounding like the prequels (is that Duel of the Fates I hear?). Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Didn't Powell say in multiple interviews that he spotted the movie with Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,358 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Doesn't matter what he said, all that matters is what rough cut believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Haha, well yes, I will stand my ground in spite of all evidence proving me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Didn't Powell say in multiple interviews that he spotted the movie with Williams? All you need is one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Ok ok, fair enough. In my mind, that makes the whole affair even sadder. Not that I’m not glad that we have new Williams music, but poor Powell. I’m sure he would’ve done a fine job as an independent artist. My guess is that it is pretty limiting to have someone else - be it the Studio or JW - hanging over your shoulder, telling you to do this or don’t do that. It can’t be easy as a creative professional to be hired to write music for the new Star Wars movie, and then have the patriarch of SW music himself stealing your thunder by - not only by writing a new Main theme for the thing - but also pointing out what should be done throughout the entire movie. What a blow. And as an audience, how should we judge the end result? What’s JW? What’s Powell? I’d rather have had a Harry Potter Chamber Of Secrets situation. Poor Powell. Stuck in the middle. What a mess. The only thing we know for sure is that the new “Adventures” theme is John Williams. And that’s a blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 29, 2018 Perhaps he is being diplomatic, but according to Powell the main reason he took the job was the opportunity to work directly with Williams. Josh500, Jediwashington and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,529 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Williams apparently helped Powell out of a massive writers block, he could have helped with the spotting to provide an expert's view of what a Star Wars score is, Powell apparently had a blast, his own themes are wonderful, his variations on AoH are great, the score is amazing. Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Perhaps he is being diplomatic, but according to Powell the main reason he took the job was the opportunity to work directly with Williams. Yes, we've been through all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I know.... that's how I knew what he said.... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 That wasn't directed at you lol Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Mortimer 43 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Why is this theme better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Being the cynic that I am, I think he’s being diplomatic, I mean, what else is he going to say? It’s a fact that people who criticize the industry or goes against the grain sees themselves without work. But it’s probably cool to work with JW so I guess you take the good with the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 11 hours ago, rough cut said: The point is that I doubt that JW’s seing - or not seing - the flick before writing the theme would have any effect on the quality of the output, especially something as abstract as “Han’s Theme.” Saw the film this weekend completely cold, having read nothing about the score beyond Jon Burlingame's Variety story earlier this year. I don't know if it was because I had low expectations for the film overall, but I was pleasantly very, very surprised by how good it was, and the role that JW's themes played in it. I'm not at all surprised to learn that he spotted the entire film before writing it—it fit it too well for it to be otherwise. Going into it, I did have the impression that JW's Han theme would be something more "abstract", something for Powell to draw on and reference, as if it had been part of the material from the original trilogy. I expected it to have some prominent appearances. But I hadn't quite expected it to be the core of the score in quite the way that it was, and for JW's stamp to be all over the film as much as it was. There were times when I must have had a stupid grin on my face in the theater because I realized that JW must have actually written the cue, or Powell was directly lifting from something he'd written (like 3:48 and 4:12 in Reminiscence Therapy or, as previously noted, 1:15 in Dice & Roll). And I have to say, the A theme is so catchy that it's the first time I've come out of the theater humming a new JW theme since War Horse. On its own, The Adventures of Han is a good, slightly convoluted concert piece (and I'm still really not a fan of the intro or the false ending). But as a thematic contribution to the fabric of a brand new Star Wars score, it feels like an incredible gift. I was skeptical enough of the entire enterprise of a Han origin story that I didn't expect JW and Powell to deliver as they did. Between this, TLJ, and TLJ's isolated score, what an incredible six month span of Star Wars music we've just had. Jediwashington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 So where do we end up on the "is it two themes or two parts of one theme" debate now that we've all heard it? I'm no expert, but from what I hear there is a first distinct melody (the "heroic" one), then another (the "searching"), then finally a third (which is more clearly a counter melody to the "searching"). The fact that the searching theme seems to have it's own B section makes me think that it's two themes, but then again the searching theme itself feels like a B section to the heroic theme. I don't know, I really don't know much about this stuff. All I know is that Rey's theme has like 5 different sections, so I'm inclined to say they're all just parts of one theme. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Williams longer-lined themes are always tricky to analyse from a leitmotif standpoint. But they're not all made equal: Han's "theme" may be comprised of two separate leitmotives whereas I would say something like Rey's theme (or other things like the Ewok material, Duel of the Fates, etc...) doesn't. In my eyes, for a long tune to be split into two leimotives, they each need to: Be substantive: not just a random couple of notes out of the unabridged theme but a defined, substantial and distinct section of it. Be separate: each of the two motifs needs to appear completely by itself at least two times in the score itself, and clearly not as a result of tracking or lifting of material. Be thematic: each of the two motifs needs to have a clear and separate dramatic function, both as a piece of music and as a piece of score. Be intentional, preferably explicitly so, on the part of the composer. Having heard John Powell talk about it, I will say that the two parts of the suite can be considered two separate leitmotives: Powell makes it sound kind of like the situation Williams had with the Raiders March where he wrote one theme, and later came up with another possible theme, and just ended up using both. It would seem, according to Powell, that Williams went so far as to spot the film for places to use each motif, as well. So in this particular instance (and a few others like Kylo's secondary theme, the B-section of the main title, the Brother and Sister motif and maybe the B-section of Across the Stars) I would say it counts as two. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John Tenuto 12 Posted May 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2018 "Chewie, we're home!" The Five Tones, BuzzLightyear, Smeltington and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 FYI there are jewel case versions for TFA and TLJ available on Amazon if you want to import from Europe John Tenuto and Jediwashington 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 First listen to the OST - full quality audio, fully audible orchestration, no film, no competing sounds. The A and B segments of Han's theme both focus on the first four notes of the minor scale (minor tetrachord). Nothing new or earth shattering, but it gives them a certain familial similarity with each other and many other Williams themes. Definitely reminds of Poe / Rey / Kylo / BotH, and the B has that signature iambic repeat of a single note (i.e. ta-da) that you hear in the E.T. signal motif, the Battle Droid theme and many, many other places. I love the athletic ending to AoH, and there is some of his best trumpet writing here. I do long for the brighter harmonic colours underpinning the themes of his golden era though, while I recognize his recent decades are simply an expansion of his longstanding technique of transposed variations on a single minor tonality - that's where the harmonic variety comes in. And he's extremely good at that - he could have presented the A and B segments in the same key, but he's never one to resist a good key modulation as we all know. It's at the core of what he does. The rhythm of the B is also great, the 6/8 vs. 3/4 feel makes it even more distinctive as a recurring hook and building block. The whole thing has real drive. While it is a concert arrangement not the score, there is a bit of prequel/sequel sameness fatigue but at least we're not hearing the Force theme every two minutes. Also love Powell's work here especially Corellia Chase, Spaceport and Train Heist (wow). He really brings some daring orchestration and colourful harmony. I don't know his work but I can see where he's made a successful effort to stay true to the existing SW sound (less so with tracks like Flying with Chewie). And I actually like the source track Chicken in a Pot - truly weird with those strings floating by, and some out there harmony. John Tenuto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Chen G. said: Williams longer-lined themes are always tricky to analyse from a leitmotif standpoint. But they're not all made equal: Han's "theme" may be comprised of two separate leitmotives whereas I would say something like Rey's theme (or other things like the Ewok material, Duel of the Fates, etc...) doesn't. In my eyes, for a long tune to be split into two leimotives, they each need to: Be substantive: not just a random couple of notes out of the unabridged theme but a defined, substantial and distinct section of it. Be separate: each of the two motifs needs to appear completely by itself at least two times in the score itself, and clearly not as a result of tracking or lifting of material. Be thematic: each of the two motifs needs to have a clear and separate dramatic function, both as a piece of music and as a piece of score. Be intentional, preferably explicitly so, on the part of the composer. Having heard John Powell talk about it, I will say that the two parts of the suite can be considered two separate leitmotives: Powell makes it sound kind of like the situation Williams had with the Raiders March where he wrote one theme, and later came up with another possible theme, and just ended up using both. It would seem, according to Powell, that Williams went so far as to spot the film for places to use each motif, as well. So in this particular instance (and a few others like Kylo's secondary theme, the B-section of the main title, the Brother and Sister motif and maybe the B-section of Across the Stars) I would say it counts as two. This all makes sense to me, though I'm not sure why the B-section of the main title qualifies and Rey's doesn't. The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Chen G. said: So in this particular instance (and a few others like Kylo's secondary theme, the B-section of the main title, the Brother and Sister motif and maybe the B-section of Across the Stars) I would say it counts as two. 1 hour ago, DominicCobb said: This all makes sense to me, though I'm not sure why the B-section of the main title qualifies and Rey's doesn't. The main title is definitely not two themes, the B section is a clear answer to the first, in the same key. Same with Indy, even though that happened after the fact and even though Indy's B appears alone in places. In context, it sounds subordinate to the A. It's a question of grammar, logic. Han's A and B are related but independent. SW Main Title and Indy have a harmonic grammar as well, Kylo and Han don't have a harmonic progression per se supporting the melody. Same with Superman, the B supports the A (although it has a musical alter ego in Clark's theme - wonderfully recursive structure to all the themes in that score). DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 That trumpet flub around 2.16 is annoying the hell out of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Maybe Lockhart will release a studio recording on CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Five Tones said: The main title is definitely not two themes, the B section is a clear answer to the first, in the same key. Yeah, but according to Williams:1 Quote [Luke's theme] is dealistic and heroic[...]and of course the Luke Skywalker music has several themes within it also.[...]I tried to construct something [for the main title] that again would have this idealistic, uplifting but military flare to it.[...]And contrast that with the second theme that was lyrical and romantic and adventurous [...and for the Throne Room] I made a sort of processional out of the middle theme of the main title music—for the beginning, I took the second theme of that and made a kind of imperial procession. I used to think he was misremembering (the interview is 16 years removed from Return of the Jedi) but re-reading it, I now get the opposite impression, which is apt because he was probably still conducting these pieces on the concert hall ad nauseam, not to mention gearing up for Episode I. I'm certainly not saying this approach should be applied to every theme in the Star Wars catalog: rather, only where Williams intended for it, either explictly or in a way that can be easily deduced from the music, album arrangement, etc... ____________________________ 1 Craig L. Byrd, Star Wars 20th Anniversary: Interview with John Williams, in: Film Score Monthly (1998). The Five Tones and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Boom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Yeah, but according to Williams:1 I used to think he was misremembering (the interview is 16 years removed from Return of the Jedi) but re-reading it, I now get the opposite impression, which is apt because he was probably still conducting these pieces on the concert hall ad nauseam, not to mention gearing up for Episode I. I'm certainly not saying this approach should be applied to every theme in the Star Wars catalog: rather, only where Williams intended for it, either explictly or in a way that can be easily deduced from the music, album arrangement, etc... ____________________________ 1 Craig L. Byrd, Star Wars 20th Anniversary: Interview with John Williams, in: Film Score Monthly (1998). Well there you go! Thanks for the "well, actually," lol. Let's call it two themes... sort of. He uses "middle theme" and "second theme" interchangeably and that quote is put together from two different answers in the interview. He must be talking about the Force theme in context of Throne Room (as well as the Throne Room theme itself), but it's really not clear in context what he's referring to. Was he thinking there that the Force theme was another of Luke's themes, or has he acknowledged it's for Obi/the Force? I've read the interview and Frank's leitmotif catalogue and I'd stand by my analysis - the A starts with the tonic, and segues to the B which answers with a non-tonic chord just as with Indy and Superman. It's a subordinate theme in the Main Title and in the Throne Room, its function doesn't change - it's the bridge. It's clearly a separate melody, but it doesn't get out much on its own. Compare with something like JP, which has two very distinct, independent themes with separate grammar. And with Han, Rey, Kylo etc. their material is much more brief and modular and interchangeable, the musical logic leaves behind the song structure of his earlier period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, The Five Tones said: The A and B segments of Han's theme both focus on the first four notes of the minor scale (minor tetrachord). Nothing new or earth shattering, but it gives them a certain familial similarity with each other and many other Williams themes. Maybe something that's interesting: the first five notes of the A theme are the first five notes of Luke's theme played in reverse (in different key and different rhythm of course). I thought you might be especially interested in that...given your username. The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Loert said: Maybe something that's interesting: the first five notes of the A theme are the first five notes of Luke's theme played in reverse (in different key and different rhythm of course). I thought you might be especially interested in that...given your username. Am I correct it's a switch from B-flat to G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Disco Stu said: Am I correct it's a switch from B-flat to G? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Loert said: Maybe something that's interesting: the first five notes of the A theme are the first five notes of Luke's theme played in reverse (in different key and different rhythm of course). I thought you might be especially interested in that...given your username. Haha! I absolutely love this kind of thing. More Skywalker family resemblances (or reflections) to add to Luke, Across the Stars, etc. I sometimes wonder if Williams is conscious of this kind of thing or not. I mean, Kylo's main motif is clearly lifted almost verbatim from the end of the Emperor's theme, but I have my doubts he did that on purpose; rather his mind just operates on a fiercely permutational level, e.g. "composing backwards." Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Five Tones said: Let's call it two themes... sort of. He uses "middle theme" and "second theme" interchangeably and that quote is put together from two different answers in the interview. He must be talking about the Force theme in context of Throne Room (as well as the Throne Room theme itself), but it's really not clear in context what he's referring to. Was he thinking there that the Force theme was another of Luke's themes, or has he acknowledged it's for Obi/the Force? By "middle theme" he means the second theme, seeing as how its immediately followed a reprise of the A-phrase. And that's the very theme he is talking about in the Throne Room, as well: the second main title theme. I agree with you that musically the two are of a piece, but we have Williams' explicit intention here. Not to mention, both Lehman and Adams label it as a separe theme, as well. The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 He's definitely speaking of it from a more academic musicological point of view, which is something that often is thrown over the boat when film score fans talk about themes. Jediwashington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I agree with you that musically the two are of a piece, but we have Williams' explicit intention here. Not to mention, both Lehman and Adams label it as a separe theme, as well. We can call it two themes, but even Lehman, although he mentions the criteria of a leitmotif not being subsidiary to something else, designates Luke's A as a principal leitmotif and not Luke's B. We can say Luke has two themes and they're both Luke's theme, collectively or individually. 13 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: He's definitely speaking of it from a more academic musicological point of view, which is something that often is thrown over the boat when film score fans talk about themes. Yes, although I wouldn't privilege a musicological point of view over other ways of engaging with the music. Williams himself, although he is the composer with over half a century of creating his own style, speaks in a more general way about his work, not going into technical terms (style words like processional or cantilena aside). Falstaft, Chen G. and Jediwashington 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Five Tones said: Yes, although I wouldn't privilege a musicological point of view over other ways of engaging with the music. Williams himself, although he is the composer with over half a century of creating his own style, speaks in a more general way about his work, not going into technical terms (style words like processional or cantilena aside). I didn't mean to imply a qualitive hierarchy, I only meant to say that it's a perspective film score fans can ignore or discredit. Most composers I know, except for squares like Walter Piston (great composer), discuss music in a more abstract/general sense. The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: I didn't mean to imply a qualitive hierarchy, I only meant to say that it's a perspective film score fans can ignore or discredit. Most composers I know, except for squares like Walter Piston (great composer), discuss music in a more abstract/general sense. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Here’s a question, it’s seems like people feel like the two main sections of Han’s theme are melodically different enough to be separate ideas, but what about the third section? To my untrained ears, it sound like a halfway point between the two - like it could be a B section to either theme. So what’s the analysis of the third section from people who understand music composition? Falstaft and The Five Tones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 That third section sounds like the second theme, but modulated with the first to act as a kind of bridge to return to the 'A' theme or I don't know. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 That was my take as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 It sounds like an outgrowth of the B with its acciaccatura-like melodic detail and falling interval (that doesn't resolve at the bottom like the A), but it could also be shown to derive from the A. It indirectly demonstrates how closely A (Lehman's "Heroic") and B ("Searching") are related in design. It also has the rising fourth pickup like Luke A / The Force, and falls back to its initial note like the Force, a sort of "do or do not" bit. DominicCobb and Falstaft 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, The Five Tones said: It sounds like an outgrowth of the B with its acciaccatura-like melodic detail and falling interval (that doesn't resolve at the bottom like the A), but it could also be shown to derive from the A. It indirectly demonstrates how closely A (Lehman's "Heroic") and B ("Searching") are related in design. It also has the rising fourth pickup like Luke A / The Force, and falls back to its initial note like the Force, a sort of "do or do not" bit. I agree: melodically, it feels more like an outgrowth of "Searching," and in "The Adventures of Han," it initially sounds like a contrasting middle section for that theme (though retrospectively, it's perhaps more of a free episode, as it does not return IIRC). Interestingly, Powell treats it as a thematic continuation (or contrasting B section) of the main "Heroic" leitmotif -- not "Searching"-- on at least one occasion, near the start of "Corellia Chase." Notice how it occupies the same tonality at the start (I/F => V/Bb), and its mere proximity to the "Heroic" leitmotif brings out some of its structural affinities with that theme. I don't know the score well enough yet to say if he highlights its connections with "Searching," but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too. It's details like this that are making me appreciate Powell's score even more; his manipulations of Williams's material are (with a perhaps a few exceptions) remarkably compelling and compositionally assured. DominicCobb, Lewya, The Five Tones and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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