Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Any chance this will have lossy tracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 It will just all be taken from MP3's of the old Rhino, with some BASS BOOST applied to it! Scam! Incanus and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 21 hours ago, ciarlese said: Thanks for the links to the videos. I don't have time to watch them now, although I read the English subtitles and I found some interesting bits which I think are most relevant to this conversation: 1:Audio and video are different indeed, although the principles behind video and audio digitization are the same. And that is the reason why the first link starts talking about audio sampling then talks about video sampling: 219 00:16:02,571 --> 00:16:08,798 One could think of video as being like audio but with two additional spatial dimensions, X and Y, 220 00:16:08,798 --> 00:16:12,787 in addition to the dimension of time. This is mathematically sound. 221 00:16:12,787 --> 00:16:19,097 The Sampling Theorem applies to all three video dimensions just as it does the single time dimension of audio. So it looks like I am not comparing apples and oranges after all. This comes from the video you posted. About your previous comment, here what your video says: 161 00:11:18,545 --> 00:11:25,100 Super-hi-fidelity sampling rates of 88, and 96, and 192kHz have also appeared. 162 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:30,888The reason for the sampling rates beyond 48kHz isn't to extend the audible high frequencies further. That bit covers your original comment: Now if you want to say that there is no audible difference by sampling with a higher frequency than the current CD standard I can't say that I disagree. But I think it is pretty much the same as going from 4k to 8k in terms of visible difference (unless you are VERY close to the screen), even after the videos you posted (which seem to me to prove you wrong). Well, yes... but... Quote 222 00:16:19,097 --> 00:16:25,815 Audio and video are obviously quite different in practice. For one, compared to audio, video is huge. 229 00:16:51,252 --> 00:16:55,425 Basic raw video is also just more complex than basic raw audio. 230 00:16:55,425 --> 00:16:58,599 The sheer volume of data currently necessitates a representation 231 00:16:58,599 --> 00:17:02,106 more efficient than the linear PCM used for audio. 243 00:17:54,664 --> 00:18:00,022 In short, there are a whole lot more details involved in digital video than there were with audio. Anyway, we can go on forever with this, like the old "analog vs. digital" debate. The point is that the extra money they charge us for those high resolution releases is definitely not worth the "benefits" we get (because there aren't any, for listening purposes). For one, the music is not even mastered to the dynamic range that 24bit has to offer. Hell, it's not even mastered to the full dynamic range of 16bit audio. The second video goes into much more detail about this and other matters. I particularly found it fascinating. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2019 Man, I love the new cover! The blue hue is awesome and looks so much better than the grey clouds of the preceding releases! Is "Theme from Superman" a separate recording or is it just the OST edit of "Prelude and Main Title"? MrJosh, crumbs, A. A. Ron and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Are 2, 3 and 4 worth getting if you have no interest in other composers adapting Williams themes? I want to order Superman but the prohibitively expensive international shipping has forced me to order far less often and instead wait until there's multiple titles I want. Only problem is not knowing when LLL's next Williams release might be (could be November for all I know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 II is a fun romp and III has some synthy elements that I love. IV is monumentally amazing, especially for a fussy Williams purist. But my taste is different to many others here, so you might want a view that's more tempered than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, crumbs said: Are 2, 3 and 4 worth getting if you have no interest in other composers adapting Williams themes? Get the II\III set for the exclusive source music from STP. Get IV for the new JW themes that aren’t available any where else. On top of that, you’ll be getting a sh*tload of good Superman material that you’ll grow to love. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 My order is awaiting shipment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterXDTV 61 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Superman IV already came from first gen 2" 24-track masters in 2008 (La La Land reissued the same discs last year) 6 and 4 track mixdowns by John Richards were used for Superman II and III (La La Land used the same masters for the II/III boxset) I don't think that Ken Thorne's adaptations for Superman II and III have enough market for a re-release. Thorne was basically hired to use and adapt John Williams' material from the first movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 He's the William Ross of Superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I hope this set lasts a few months at least. I cannot order this at the moment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 well not exactly. In this case Williams had nothing to do with Superman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Yeah yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 In addition to the samples on LLL's websites, there are now two other sources to hear music from the new set: 1) This great interview of Mike Matessino conducted by Maurizio Caschetto:https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/legacyofjw_mikem_podcast_part_one-1.mp3 2) The latest episode of the Caped Wonder podcast: https://capedwonder.com/CapedWonder_podcasts/CW_SUPERMAN_PODCAST_EP8_FEB_19_2019.mp3 anironwaffle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The way Mike, and Jim Bowers, talk about the way this sounds - I can’t wait to get my hands on the CD! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Some notes from Mike in a new FSM thread about the elements use Quote Quote Starting this thread in the hope that segregating technical queries on this release will result in not having to wade through fanboy angst whilst looking for solid information from knowledgable technical personnel. So, to start things off: Mike Matessino, were the multitrack transfers on this release done with the Plangent process? Will the Plangent process, at present, accommodate 2" 24-track tape? Warner Bros. is not a Plangent Process client and Sound Transfer has not purchased Plangent head stacks yet. Nor do I think in early 2018 when these transfers were done was the 24-track head in circulation yet. In any case, contractually Warner Sound must do our transfers according to their own practices and these tapes played beautifully, with resolved rock solid sync. I was present for some of it and I have no complaints about the quality of the transfers or the elements, especially given their age. They were stored in the UK for 30 years before moving to underground storage in Kansas, but held up very nicely. https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134413&forumID=1,1&archive=0 The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Moved all the way from the UK to Kansas eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Early 2018 - so in this specific case working from complete scratch and manufacturing the discs took a slim year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterXDTV 61 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Mike confirms on FSM https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134413&forumID=1,1&archive=0 Quote This was done exactly like the first Harry Potter, 192k 24bit, with all the assembly & restoration done on the transferred first generation data and then output straight to CD master files. Oh my God! ORDERED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 MV posted this over at FSM. https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=8&threadID=134366&archive=0 Quote As stated this Friday. We will start shipping on that date. Thus far we have about 1500 orders on the website alone (a new record for a recent title in less than 1 week). We will process and ship them out as quickly as we can. We will be working this weekend to make sure orders get out in a timely manner. We appreciate your patience. Thanks MV crocodile and anironwaffle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 It will get here when it will get here. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Well, I'd been a little on the fence about getting this, since I own not only the original CD but the Rhino expansion AND the Blue Box. But the podcast tipped me over the edge, and then I figured hey what the fuck, why not get the II/III and IV sets as well. So take your $100, La-La Land! You've earned it. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, crocodile said: It will get here when it will get here. Karol Are you sure? Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Am I sure of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Could anyone tell me what MM meant when he said that the first generation tapes already contained the performance edits and why he doesn't like that? Does he mean people already 'messed' with the recordings from day one? In that case, how are they still first generation material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Could anyone tell me what MM meant when he said that the first generation tapes already contained the performance edits and why he doesn't like that? Does he mean people already 'messed' with the recordings from day one? In that case, how are they still first generation material? I guess they did the edits by cutting and splicing the first gen tapes, just as with CE3K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I guess they did the edits by cutting and splicing the first gen tapes, just as with CE3K. That's exactly right. The preferred takes were combined by physically cutting and splicing the first generation tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Barbaric. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Such innocent times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Didn't something that would go on to be iconic from Superman accidentally end up in the rubbish bin during one of the editing sessions? Sure I remember a podcast talking about having to salvage a cue that was covered in coffee and Williams' cigar ash! I've a feeling it was either the Main Title or Leaving Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Alan said: Leaving Home So that's why it's distorted! Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I'll try and find the podcast when I get home later. It was posted on here and people (including me) got choked up over a story about a piece from Superman being played at the funeral of someone involved. I feel bad about not remembering the name of the person because it was a lovely story. I think that was also Leaving Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, crocodile said: It will get here when it will get here. Karol Part of my posting was to show this is gonna sell well. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted February 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2019 More fantastic insight from MM on the alternate Fortress of Solitude track. I must admit it will take a lot of will-power to not listen to part 2 of @TownerFan 's podcast but I'll try to resist until after my set arrives! Quote The reaction to this release is really wondrous. I'm so glad that it can finally be shared with everyone. That remains what this is all about. I have reflected on the experience of putting it together and would like to share a thought about it: Eleven months ago Neil Bulk and I first saw the tape which we suspected might contain the alternate "Fortress of Solitude" cue. It was not unfamiliar music to me, having read the score and heard a MIDI version. Even so, the moment we had it on the machine at Warner Sound Transfer and first heard it is beyond description. Imagine... a 4 minute piece of John Williams music recorded with the London Symphony that we didn't think existed and that no one had heard in 40 years! It was very much like the moment when Nick Redman and I first heard the early "Binary Sunset" cue from Star Wars in 1996. It is difficult to articulate the experience; initially it really feels like you must be dreaming it. The first impulse is to roll the tape back and play it again to make sure it's real and actually there. This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later! This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation. Thank you all for your boundless passion. Mike https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134417&forumID=1&archive=0 anironwaffle, jwalk713, The Five Tones and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Wowwee zowwee, I can't wait to hear this track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, ATXHusker said: More fantastic insight from MM on the alternate Fortress of Solitude track. I must admit it will take a lot of will-power to not listen to part 2 of @Amer 's podcast but I'll try to resist until after my set arrives! https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134417&forumID=1&archive=0 You mean TownerFan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 MIDI version? Also, what would the tapes sound like if they cut and pasted performance edits? Would it result in seamless sound or did MM have to redo all the transitions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said: You mean TownerFan? Yes, my apologies, @TownerFan I was listening to the CapedWonder podcast when they mentioned @Amer Podcast overload the last couple days! Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 The process used for this score - cutting the performance edits using the actual 1st gen tapes - is pretty unique overall in the realm of all film scores ever. But it was actually quite common for a period of John William's output. Star Wars, CE3K, and Superman were all done this way. I'm not 100% sure about Empire, Raiders, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, and Jedi but I think they were too?. The Fury, Jaws 2, 1941, Dracula and ET were not. Anyway, if you've never had issues with how Star Wars or CE3K sounded before, you won't have any issues with Superman either. Basically, if you listen really closely, you can probably hear the edit points. But I believe Mike cleaned up all of the most obvious ones for CE3K and Superman too. That_Bloke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: MIDI version? Also, what would the tapes sound like if they cut and pasted performance edits? Would it result in seamless sound or did MM have to redo all the transitions? I imagine he's had to do a lot of work smoothing out the analogue edits. Same thing was true of Close Encounters though and it sounds flawless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: MIDI version? Also, what would the tapes sound like if they cut and pasted performance edits? Would it result in seamless sound or did MM have to redo all the transitions? Yeah, made off of the sheet music I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 302 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I studied electronic composition in the analog (tape) days. Razor blade editing with high speed tape machines can result in very precise, undetectable edits (or at least in the context of home audio of the time, unobtrusive edits). But it's destructive editing - by ear! No waveform on a monitor, no undo/redo. If you don't have the time/money - and just think about the budget/pressure/professional standards involved with a major studio motion picture - you have to slice it right the first time, i.e. the only time. I can imagine using a spot backup, never mind have to resort to the backup master, was a cost prohibitive exercise. That said, I can't imagine trying to seamlessly edit a multitrack tape that contained 70-80 (what was the #?) closely-mic'd orchestral players in a live room. I'm familiar with all the places they failed to do so from years of listening to the LPs of SW, CE3K, ESB, Raiders, etc. I'm totally going to follow MM's advice and listen to the alternate Fortress before anything else (incl. pt. 2 of the podcast)... he just had to mention the Binary Sunset alternate. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 More details on the set from Mike over at the FSM forum... Quote Quote Sigh... well I guess Mike's post is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. I was on the fence about getting this new release or not as I already own the Blue Box and am satisfied with it. I did not see the point of upgrading (and spend money again) but the promise of a better sound quality plus an amazing unreleased track for such a milestone JW soundtrack, that sums it up for me. I will definitely get this new release! Technical question though: how come the track listing does not mention "previously unreleased" for that "The Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment)" track? (I did not see if that was previously answered before) Applying the asterisks happens on a case-by-case basis. On the Potter set there would have been so many asterisks it would have looked ridiculous. We decided to not do it on An American Tail either. This is technically the first fully Williams approved expansion of Superman, so it's almost like this is being done for the first time... here is the full score, here are the alternates, here is the original album, all from the original recording masters. So what has and hasn't been released before is not really relevant. Internally the licensing entities have all the information about who owns what. I also understand expressions of hesitance about getting it. Part of that, I think, is because we don't really "wear out" our CDs, or even the cases they come in. The older releases look, feel, sound and work the same as when we first got them. That's not true with cars, phones, carpeting and furniture, for example, so we think about replacing them when the time comes and then enjoy the feeling of having something more "up to date." I went through three copies of Superman on LP in ten years before it became available on CD and then bought US and Japanese editions of that, and didn't think anything about doing so... and that was for all the same master. But now we have three things... 1) economic practicality, 2) a music business that we know no longer requires physical product, 3) a title for which twice now people were told the best material was used... all coming together to tell us that our passions are reckless. It's a challenging problem and in the end up to each individual. And as I said before, there's no shame either way. If I were on the other side of this dilemma, I would just skip a meal out (or two if I was overseas) and get it. https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=4&forumID=1&threadID=134366&archive=0 Oh to be a fly on the wall (or car window) for these moments! LOL Same link as above, further down the thread... Quote Quote I am curious, Mr. Matessino: what's the story of who you first told about your discovery of the proverbial holy grail of "Superman" music? (Or is that covered in part 2 of the podcast?) I should clarify: the podcast I am referencing is at The Legacy of John Williams web site. I have not yet listened to the Caped Wonder podcast on the new release. I don't think the podcast goes into all of the details and I assume you mean this "Fortress" track. Neil and I reviewed the photos of the boxes sent to us from UVS in Kansas and spotted what we believed to be the cue. We called in that tape, had it put up, and then stood there listening in a surreal indescribable fugue state. That roll was quickly transferred that night but later it was redone along with the next one in the series, which actually had the best take on it. But from the initial run made that first night I was able to make a quick and dirty mix and edit of the cue that we kept to ourselves. I played it for Jamie Richardson and the guys at La-La Land and then subsequently for Jim Bowers and Jay Towers in my car when they came in to town for a visit. Much later in the year I finalized the track (I played it for Tim Burden in London in October), but apart from the refs made for John Williams, which he listened to during his convalescence, it was kept to Neil and myself, and anyone who knew about kept quiet. Mike Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 314 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 10:49 PM, SyncMan said: I still have hope that a L2P Superman-The Movie concert will happen. Warner Bros or any concert production company can’t be that stupid to pass this up. I should lay the blame on only one concert production company, if this doesn't happen--Film Concerts Live. One of the owners of that company is The Gorfaine/Schwartz Agency, the management agency that represents John Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Amer 2,109 Posted February 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2019 Guys Check this out! : Mike Matessino and Neil S Bulk reveal the SUPERMAN Master tapes aka the The goody tapes! https://youtu.be/I-2Soq9UPCI "March 12, 2018: Neil Bulk recording a bit of the day the 2-inch 24-track first generation scoring masters for SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE by John Williams arrived at Warner Bros. Studios in Burbank." The Illustrious Jerry, Incanus, anironwaffle and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 hours ago, ATXHusker said: More details on the set from Mike over at the FSM forum... https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=4&forumID=1&threadID=134366&archive=0 In accord with Mike, I'll give clear instructions on how to skip the small alternate Fortress of Solitude excerpt during Part 2 of the podcast (which will be online next Monday, btw). I want to respect his wishes in giving fans the chance to experience the track for the first time unedited and uninterrupted when they will get their sets. Amer and The Five Tones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'd rather not hear it at all before hearing the set, personally. I went out of my way to avoid the Firebolt alternate from Azkaban but sadly I kept hearing excerpts in various podcasts. It would've been amazing to hear that for the first time in the set itself (and I imagine the alternate Fortress would be much the same). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm prepared to be disappointed by the alternate. Such things are usually overhyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post phbart 609 Posted February 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2019 "Fortress of Solitude is the new Botanicus". A Netflix Original Series. Ollie, crumbs, bollemanneke and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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