Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Reminds me of the Balloon/Ballroom debate. Ball room. Interesting name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Millennial here too. I've been to a couple of live music events in the last few months (one a small music festival and the other an organised street performance type thing). The festival one said not to try to film/photograph with any sort of obviously professional equipment, and I assume the latter one would have a similar 'understanding', but as far as phones or small cameras were concerned - go crazy. I've also been to a few more civilised concerts in London, and those are the sorts of environments where holding up your phone to film starts to interfere with those around you. However, I don't agree with a blanket 'no photos/video' policy because it feels like they're preaching that we should be enjoying 'the moment', and I don't like being told how I should absorb something I'm watching. Bottom line for me: if you are able to film/take picture without affecting anyone around you or the artist, then I don't see the problem. If you're doing it in a way that the artist or an audience member is distracted or uncomfortable in any way and asks you to stop, STFU and enjoy the rest of the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Richard Penna said: Millennial here … it feels like they're preaching … I don't like being told how I should absorb something I'm watching. Poor little snowflake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I've noticed that so-called millennials have now begun their fight back against generational prejudice by enacting order Old Coot: literally anyone a few years older than themselves is called - with authentic and absolute sneering levels of dismissal - a "boomer". I'm seeing it everywhere, it's a massive srike back which has levelled the playing field. Can't really blame 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 There's definitely a double standard here. If some incredible performance was recorded and put on YouTube, no one would have a problem with it. Many JW live performances have been recorded, for instance. So what the hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 If you’re doing it right orchestral concerts are much easier to film without distracting others than rock concerts. Everyone’s sitting down so you don’t have to hold the phone way above your head like at a rock concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just strap a Go Pro on top of your head! Amer and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bloke next to me at the Royal Albert Hall in the very front row got ejected for filming the performance of Empire Strikes Back the other day - after multiple polite warnings for prior filming. He missed the climax and end credits suite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I went to St.Vincent's Digital Witness show in 2014 and she made sure no one was recording it and damn straight, you shouldn't be recording. The lyrics in Digital Witness speak to this phenomenon: Quote Digital witnesses, what's the point of even sleeping?If I can't show it, if you can't see meWhat's the point of doing anything? Everything has to be seen through a phone nowadays that it's changed the way people experience events like live performances. It begs the question, are they really experiencing the event at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Arpy said: . It begs the question, are they really experiencing the event at all? The answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Did Amer take the s out of her last name in the the thread title but still leave her first name wrong? What the hell man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Chillax, Jaye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Soapy Dan Mutters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I hate the hypocrisy of not being able to film live performances, but I understand why the rules exist. You bought the ticket and are in the seat. They have your money. You want a recording for later. They are not filming it or making a recording of the audio, so you aren't robbing them of tangible money. But you are impinging on their right to do so later, and the fear is that if enough decent bootleg recordings are in circulation, less people will pay to attend the concert hall or buy the (non-existent) authorized recording. Also, even though she was playing Beethoven, who is in the public domain, the musicians and concert hall all want paid, and SHE whatever-her-name-is is the center of attention. She's entitled to be narcissistic about not having unauthorized recordings of her. Camera lenses are reflective surfaces. The performer's eyes are sensitive on a brightly lit stage. They do not want to be distracted by hundreds of little points of light pointing back at them from the darkened audience. Especially if the cameras use red AF beams or people think flash is a good idea. I know I've crossed the argument from video to still photography, but the analogy is still valid. (Fortunately they don't make the same argument with corrective eyeglasses.) If they allow open season on recording, then people will bring in cameras and tripods and overall be a distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I'll use analog film instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,116 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Jay said: Did Amer take the s out of her last name in the the thread title but still leave her first name wrong? What the hell man? Yikes! I did it again! Basically my laptop is gone for repairs and I don't type well on smartphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Nobody does! Thanks for fixing Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I think Sophie-Anne Mutters did it right. I hate those crappy sounding, shakey videos in youtube. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 deleted Joni Wiljami and mstrox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Remco 685 Posted October 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: ^She's an incredible violinist, but this is just bizarre behavior on her part. This quote in particular comes off as almost borderline egotistical. No!!! First of all, that is not her quote. When you perform, as an artist, it’s a unique moment as you give yourself to whoever is listening to you. Then when you notice somebody filming, you become aware of the fact that what you’re doing isn’t a fleeting moment anymore, but can be re-listened again and again from that moment on. You become more self-concious and distracted from the music itself and thus it affects the performance already. Really, believe me when I say this, for most musicians it’s a horrible feeling. Arpy, Fabulin and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 There's no need to apologize to Beethoven. He's already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: ^She's an incredible violinist, but this is just bizarre behavior on her part. This quote in particular comes off as almost borderline egotistical. You clearly opened the article linked to in the main post, in order to find this quote, but you also clearly didn't actually read the article very carefully, because it was not Anne-Sophie Mutter who said the this, but Austin Larson. Manakin Skywalker and Remco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jay said: You clearly opened the article linked to in the main post, in order to find this quote, but you also clearly didn't actually read the article very carefully, because it was not Anne-Sophie Mutter who said the this, but Austin Larson. I did read the article, but I was somehow confused by the way the page was laid out (I "skim" read really fast, so that can be an issue sometimes). Somehow I thought that was a quote from her. I'm glad it was not. Thanks for clarifying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 No problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 if the phone bothered her performance fine, she might get distracted knowing she's being filmed if it was for some idiotic piracy /copyright infringement reason then it was stupid to stop Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 2:39 PM, mstrox said: There's no need to apologize to Beethoven. He's already dead. Does that mean he was a better composer than Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Beethoven was supposed to compose Schindlers List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Anne-Sophie "The Adventures of" Mutt(er) Amer and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 No matter the circumstances, I still think it was an unprofessional move. Musicians are often praised for continuing on with their performances no matter what. Musicians have made mistakes, gotten sick and almost passed out, I think Madonna or someone had a bird shit in their mouth a couple years back; and they all soldiered on as if nothing happened. As they say, "the show must go on". In this case Anne-Sophie came across as being a bit of a diva. It would be even worse if we found out it was indeed over copyright infringement, and not just her feeling either distracted, or as though her performance wasn't being enjoyed "properly". Either way I think it was a bit low, but the latter explanation would be at least a bit forgivable. Personally I filmed the entirety of the Star Wars in Concert performance in Green Bay, WI back in 2009. I don't feel my experience was lessened at all just by simply filming it. And on top of that I have the benefit of reliving that experience with the footage I have, and can study all aspects of the performance if I want. The belief that filming something will lessen your experience is a BS myth Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,116 Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 The girl said sorry! https://www.classicfm.com/artists/anne-sophie-mutter/audience-members-defend-smartphone-concertgoer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The more I think about this, the more I know I’ve lost some respect for Mutter. She was wrong to stop the performance, she was wrong to single the girl out. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,208 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I'm quite puzzled. It was my impression that we all agree that people texting on smartphones at the cinema (during the film) are a nuisance, and now we're arguing that it should be perfectly fine for people to be even more obtrusive during a concert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said: I'm quite puzzled. It was my impression that we all agree that people texting on smartphones at the cinema (during the film) are a nuisance, and now we're arguing that it should be perfectly fine for people to be even more obtrusive during a concert? 1. Arguing that Mutter's actions are wrong isn't the same as arguing that the girl was completely in the right. If I was sitting near her, I'd be way more annoyed (maybe even angry) at Mutter for stopping the performance midway than with the minor annoyance of just seeing the phone. 2. Orchestral concerts aren't dark like a movie theater (at least the ones I've been to), so the screen isn't nearly as annoying and newer phones that sense ambient light have made the issue not nearly as bad as it used to be 3. I'm not distracted if someone is just sort of holding their phone at chest level and close to themselves instead of raising it above their heads. There are less distracting ways to do it. I say this without disagreeing that filming in the first place is a selfish thing to do. The girl should not have been filming if she was sitting close enough to the front to be noticed by the performers and filming at concerts can be very selfish and entitled, but Mutter handled it poorly. Like a diva, as someone said above. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Its a severe breach of concert etiquette. And Mutter was right in her actions. Fabulin and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted October 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 5, 2019 While recording the concert is bad, if not allowed by the concerthall, i think stopping the performance mid-way was disrespectful for the 99.9% of the audience..... Manakin Skywalker, Disco Stu, mstrox and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Most of them were probably not paying attention anyway! 17 hours ago, King Mark said: if the phone bothered her performance fine, she might get distracted knowing she's being filmed if it was for some idiotic piracy /copyright infringement reason then it was stupid to stop It would guess the reason is that filming makes her feel more self-aware, impairing her playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 It's a sticky situation; on one hand I sympathize with Mutter who was obviously distracted by the sight of the phone, on the other hand, the offender clearly didn't understand what she was doing was wrong and was crushed by Mutter's callout. Imagine some artist you adore singled you out and told you to leave, it would be heartbreaking for sure. Perhaps Mutter will apologise? Perhaps the offender will write something? Hopefully this serves as a warning to future concertgoers: put your phone away. Save yourself and the performers the embarrassment of this situation. MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I wonder if Anne-Sophie was ever a middle school teacher. Sounds like something they'd do. "Put your phone away or I'm making the whole class stay an extra 30 minutes!" Unlucky Bastard and Gnome in Plaid 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Threaten them with encores! MikeH and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,670 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Social responsibility. It is a hell of a thing. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,519 Posted October 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 5, 2019 There is no middle ground here. The cell phone idiot was wrong, Mutter was right. I hope her example is followed. Unlucky Bastard, Timo Martikainen, Remco and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,208 Posted October 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: While recording the concert is bad, if not allowed by the concerthall, i think stopping the performance mid-way was disrespectful for the 99.9% of the audience..... If Mutter was distracted by the phone (and she probably was if she'd rather break her flow and start over than just ignore it and play on), then her performance would have suffered, and that would have been a loss for 100% of the audience. You must not forget that even though as a concert audience you are a consumer paying for a "product", the performers are still artists who 1) need to be in the right mood and concentration to perform the music to the standard you expect and they want and 2) hopefully don't just play a piece by the numbers but actually want to give an inspired performance. That means they're not just for hire personnel who should put up with anything you in the audience do. If you want them to perform up to your high expectations, and therefore want them to actually enjoy their job and want keep doing it and strive to live up to your (and their own) expectations, accept that you also have a certain obligation to not disturb the proceedings. And if you don't care and want to act up because you've paid for your ticket, at least keep the other concert goers in mind who do have expectations, and stay at home rather than disturbing the concert they also have paid for. Tydirium, Omen II and Arpy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I honestly can't imagine a scenario in which a cellphone could distract her. She was performing in front of hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 It's not the cellphone itself - it's knowing you're being recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Eh, I don't really buy that either. She's recorded during performances all the time (for official purposes). I'd like to see a video of this actually happening, just to see exactly how it really played out, instead of just listening to hearsay. But obviously since she was probably the only one recorded, I doubt that'll be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/5/2019 at 7:44 AM, King Mark said: Beethoven was supposed to compose Schindlers List Yeah but now he's all dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Sadly, we got a JW score instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Needed a Kilar score instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I would be very surprised if Anne-Sophie Mutter stopped her performance due to concerns about copyrighting. It was clearly distracting her enough that she felt it was affecting her performance for whatever reason, therefore I completely understand her stopping the performance and asking the young woman to stop. It might be that she was in a crabby mood that day and might otherwise have let it go, but that is her prerogative as the performer (Williams himself has gone on record as saying that she is a woman you cannot say no to). It might be partly a generational thing too. I grew up in an age without smartphones whereas many youngsters nowadays are used to having every aspect of their lives recorded for posterity as soon as they emerge from the womb (literally in some cases!); they therefore see nothing wrong in videoing anything and everything that happens to them and are less bothered by others that do so. I still feel a little self conscious just taking a couple of still photos with my camera at the end of a performance during the applause and cannot envisage myself ever recording during a performance in a classical concert. For me it is not a question of whether or not I can still enjoy the concert at the same time as videoing it, it is a question of whether or not I could do so without affecting other people's enjoyment of the concert. I usually do find the use of smartphones during a formal performance very distracting. At somewhere like the Royal Albert Hall where the seats in the stalls and circle are very steeply raked, you can easily see when someone in the rows in front of you turns their phone on. It seems that so many people cannot sit still for three quarters of an hour without checking their phone. I was at a Proms concert a few weeks ago where a man actually took a telephone call during a magical performance of John Luther Adams's In the Name of the Earth, until he was quickly taken to task by the people sitting around him. That said, I am open to accusations of hypocrisy here given that I have enjoyed the occasional video taken by concertgoers and indeed have linked to them plenty of times here. For example there was a video of the final scenes of E.T. live in concert that was brilliant, although I am glad I was not sitting behind the person taking it! Marian Schedenig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80sFan 108 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 This just came up at a the opening season concert last night at Mercury Houston (https://www.mercuryhouston.org/). Although their policy in the past was camera/video/audio recordings are prohibited, the President of the Board announced before the concert that recordings were encouraged and gave the hashtag to use when posting on social media. For the 1st time in the 12 years we have gone, people had their phones up recording (4 in my line of sight). Just cameras would have been ok, but the bright screens on the phones were distracting in the dark theater. Tickets are not cheap (~$70 where were sitting). We’re there for the music – not sure we want to put up with the distraction of the screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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