Steven Spielberg is Making a John Williams Documentary

[mrbellamy 6,291]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Nah, hard disagree there. While a lot of library music is awful, generic fluff, an experienced music supervisor can find some really great pieces. In fact, I'd say it's basically the way to go if they scored the bulk with Williams' scores and just needed a few connective bits here and there. It wouldn't be worth asking a composer to write 10 minutes of music to be heard under talking heads.

 

Or get William Ross to do stuff like that, honestly. Or any adaptations of JW they might want to fit the doc that music editing doesn't cover. He's the obvious choice. 

 

Has Bouzereau ever not used JW music in the featurettes? And if Spielberg is this hands-on with it, he's gonna want it to be all JW. I agree there's nothing indulgent about it, it's the only thing anyone would expect to hear queuing up a John Williams doc. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Come to think of it, if it's SS editing his recording session videos, are they even going to need a score for the most part?

 

Unless this is going to be an hour of backslapping and praising Williams, in which case this forum goes wild, and I'll go and hibernate somewhere  

[Edmilson 7,470]

What we want: to see Spielberg's footage of JW's recording sessions with a cool editing, similar to the Peter Jackson Beatles documentary.

 

What we'll get: hours of interviews with Hollywood celebrities sucking Williams' cock (in a metaphorical way ), telling how much he is a genius, how his music impacted so many people, his magic, the dead composers anecdote, backslapping, etc.

[mrbellamy 6,291]

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

But I know JWFan... full orchestral original score with a 2-CD, MM-produced, JW-approved release, or else!

 

8 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Unless this is going to be an hour of backslapping and praising Williams, in which case this forum goes wild, and I'll go and hibernate somewhere  

 

Nobody hates JWFan more than you do

 

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Hollywood celebrities sucking Williams' cock (in a metaphorical way )

 

I wouldn't be so sure, why else has Spielberg been keeping all his recording sessions footage secret? 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

5 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Nobody hates JWFan more than you do

 

I like JW's music but the god-like obsessing does irk me sometimes, true.

 

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

What we'll get: hours of interviews with Hollywood celebrities sucking Williams' cock (in a metaphorical way ), telling how much he is a genius, how his music impacted so many people, his magic, the dead composers anecdote, backslapping, etc.

 

Precisely this. No dedicated fan learns anything about his process.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

23 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

What we'll get: hours of interviews with Hollywood celebrities sucking Williams' cock (in a metaphorical way )

 

If it weren't in a metaphorical way, it wouldn't be something I'd want to see - but it certainly would be JW making history yet again at the age of 90+.

[Tom 4,670]

14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Precisely this. No dedicated fan learns anything about his process.

I think we know about his process to the degree that he does.  At some point artistic inspiration is ineffable, which is why he says the same basic procedural things on composing time and again.  

 

I would be happy with a a good amount of time spent with his early years.  When he opens up about those things, his stories are quite interesting.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of those he worked with during that period are long since dead--maybe there is some archival footage out there.  

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

12 minutes ago, Tom said:

I would be happy with a a good amount of time spent with his early years.  When he opens up about those things, his stories are quite interesting.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of those he worked with during that period are long since dead--maybe there is some archival footage out there.  

 

Daniel Radcliffe: You need a better interviewee than me for your documentary.

Steven Spielberg: I know, but they're all dead.

[mrbellamy 6,291]

Well yeah, that is the thing I especially don't want is for this thing to be stacked with actors who starred in John Williams movies but actually had little or nothing to do with his work or even knowing him very well as a person, like the AFI Lifetime Achievement award ceremony. I love Mark Hamill and his enthusiasm but I don't need him talking about how amazing it was to hear Star Wars for the first time. But good odds he'll be in here to tell me again!

 

The interviewees I want to hear from regarding his film work are directors, editors, mixers, orchestrators, of course the musicians themselves. Many of these people are gone but not all, and there are always archival interviews. I would be more impressed if the lineup looked more like The Legacy of John Williams podcast guestlist than the casts of his movies. It shouldn't be that weird! A WWII documentary would be filled with first-hand accounts from absolutely nobody you've ever heard of yet movie-related documentaries can often use famous actors as a crutch.

 

Milquetoast music documentaries are the same way which can end up with vague analysis of the end results and its legacy, when you really want to know what makes someone tick and how the sausage is made. That's what was so miraculous about the Get Back documentary. There was a great tweet saying the awful, ultra-slick version of it would have had the footage interrupted frequently with shit like Dave Grohl saying "Without The Beatles, there would have been no Nirvana." 

 

The bottom line about wanting this to be about process is not to uncover exactly how his mind works when he's writing music, because that's impossible, but there are things we can observe about how he works as a creative professional, especially him on the podium at sessions or at the mixing board or if Spielberg ever filmed him playing and talking through themes on piano. I would also love if they just interviewed him about his music AT the piano. Then he's not just sitting there saying "Dun dun dun dun" or talking about chords, he can demonstrate what he's talking about, that would be fantastic too. Just putting him against a black screen describing music to me, less interesting. I've seen it before. 

 

The other trap this documentary can fall into in covering his entire life is to be so broad that it lacks specificity. Not just skimming over areas of his career but also generalizing his personality. That's what actually sucks about ass-kissing and saying "He's so nice." I'm sure it's true that he's nice, tell me why he's nice! I've never met the man, he seems very nice. But other than just watching him for myself in interviews I don't have that many real anecdotes about why people have unanimously come to think he's so damn nice lol. So if this documentary ends up telling me over and over how this man is so nice, or smart, or charming, then please load it up with actual stories. 

 

But of course there's more to the guy than that. It doesn't mean there's a scandal waiting to happen (better not be) but stories like Lukas Kendall asking Williams if he ever "geeked out" on anything as a kid like soundtracks and movies, and Williams witheringly replied "Girls." There have to be millions of stories like that which aren't necessarily him being "nice" but shade different sides of him in interesting and funny ways we've never heard. I'm sure they'll have a few nuggets from his family. 

[JTN 2,042]

[Thor 7,519]

23 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

But of course there's more to the guy than that. It doesn't mean there's a scandal waiting to happen (better not be) 

 

There aren't that many. There's Williams rekindling his relationship with high school sweetheart Barbara Ruick while she was still married to Robert Horton, and his surprising blow-out at the "America - The Dream Goes On" session with the Boston Pops, and things like that, but I doubt that's going to be part of the documentary. I'm expecting it to walk quietly, with plenty of Hollywood adulations to go around.

 

To be honest, I take whatever I can get, as long as there are many of those Spielberg-shot recording sessions clips.

[mrbellamy 6,291]

Ultimately I agree. An overall bland-ish doc that features unseen clips from Spielberg's collection and some good anecdotes would still get a thumbs up from me. 

[Tom 4,670]

Are there any interviews with Herbert Spencer about working with JW?  

[Brando 1,864]

Personally, I'd like to see possible archive footage of Ken Wannberg or Ramiro Belgardt editing the music and talking about that process, and not necessarily the tracking parts, but also the takes being edited together and whatnot. Shawn Murphy being interviewed would be pretty cool as well.

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

his surprising blow-out at the "America - The Dream Goes On" session with the Boston Pop

What's this?

 

1 hour ago, JTW said:

I've never seen this before, thats cool!!

[crumbs 14,318]

7 minutes ago, Brando said:

Personally, I'd like to see possible archive footage of Ken Wannberg or Ramiro Belgardt editing the music and talking about that process, and not necessarily the tracking parts,

 

They should interview Abrams and ask him about nothing except the tracking in TROS, then scold him accordingly.

[Brando 1,864]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

They should interview Abrams and grill him about the tracking in TROS and nothing else.

"So Kenny, can you explain what you're doing here?"

"I don't know Steven, why is this the 4th time I'm using The Lost World concert piece all over this movie? Riddle me that."

[Thor 7,519]

24 minutes ago, Brando said:

What's this?

 

An old story. According to legend, Williams stormed out of the room during a rehearsal of this piece in the early 80s, saying he would quit his position as Boston Pops musical director (which he of course didn't). Initially, it was suggested that he did so because the orchestra members didn't like the piece and suggested it through their behaviour. More likely, and later suggested, it was because they were unruly -- a leftover from Arthur Fielder's laissez-faire leading style -- and which came to a confrontation in this situation. We're still waiting for all the official details surrounding it.

[Tom 4,670]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

PS.  Johnny initially thought that I would need a better composer than him for the project.  

[enderdrag64 624]

2 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Well yeah, that is the thing I especially don't want is for this thing to be stacked with actors who starred in John Williams movies but actually had little or nothing to do with his work or even knowing him very well as a person, like the AFI Lifetime Achievement award ceremony. I love Mark Hamill and his enthusiasm but I don't need him talking about how amazing it was to hear Star Wars for the first time. But good odds he'll be in here to tell me again!

 

The interviewees I want to hear from regarding his film work are directors, editors, mixers, orchestrators, of course the musicians themselves. Many of these people are gone but not all, and there are always archival interviews. I would be more impressed if the lineup looked more like The Legacy of John Williams podcast guestlist than the casts of his movies. It shouldn't be that weird! A WWII documentary would be filled with first-hand accounts from absolutely nobody you've ever heard of yet movie-related documentaries can often use famous actors as a crutch.

 

Milquetoast music documentaries are the same way which can end up with vague analysis of the end results and its legacy, when you really want to know what makes someone tick and how the sausage is made. That's what was so miraculous about the Get Back documentary. There was a great tweet saying the awful, ultra-slick version of it would have had the footage interrupted frequently with shit like Dave Grohl saying "Without The Beatles, there would have been no Nirvana." 

 

The bottom line about wanting this to be about process is not to uncover exactly how his mind works when he's writing music, because that's impossible, but there are things we can observe about how he works as a creative professional, especially him on the podium at sessions or at the mixing board or if Spielberg ever filmed him playing and talking through themes on piano. I would also love if they just interviewed him about his music AT the piano. Then he's not just sitting there saying "Dun dun dun dun" or talking about chords, he can demonstrate what he's talking about, that would be fantastic too. Just putting him against a black screen describing music to me, less interesting. I've seen it before. 

 

The other trap this documentary can fall into in covering his entire life is to be so broad that it lacks specificity. Not just skimming over areas of his career but also generalizing his personality. That's what actually sucks about ass-kissing and saying "He's so nice." I'm sure it's true that he's nice, tell me why he's nice! I've never met the man, he seems very nice. But other than just watching him for myself in interviews I don't have that many real anecdotes about why people have unanimously come to think he's so damn nice lol. So if this documentary ends up telling me over and over how this man is so nice, or smart, or charming, then please load it up with actual stories. 

 

But of course there's more to the guy than that. It doesn't mean there's a scandal waiting to happen (better not be) but stories like Lukas Kendall asking Williams if he ever "geeked out" on anything as a kid like soundtracks and movies, and Williams witheringly replied "Girls." There have to be millions of stories like that which aren't necessarily him being "nice" but shade different sides of him in interesting and funny ways we've never heard. I'm sure they'll have a few nuggets from his family. 

I mean at least the actors might've had the chance of visiting a recording session or two. I'd rather have that than completely unrelated people.

 

That VICE documentary on Star Wars from last year, the "Icons Unearthed" one - it had some great guests like Marcia Lucas and Anthony Daniels and Howard Kazanjian and Roger Christian and some of the ILM folks, but then half the other interviewees were random people who had nothing to do with the production at all.

 

Some of them were professors or film historians, but then there was some Den of Geek correspondent, they gave her loads of speaking time and the whole time she was saying things like "now George was thinking this. George wanted to do that." She wasn't even born yet when the movie came out!

[Brando 1,864]

I think the end credits of the documentary should have this little moment from Revenge of the Sith BTS where Kenny is trying to get them to raise the music over the sfx playing in the background:

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,800]

"Are you happy, Kenny? You win this round!" 

[pete 907]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

 

An old story. According to legend, Williams stormed out of the room during a rehearsal of this piece in the early 80s, saying he would quit his position as Boston Pops musical director (which he of course didn't). Initially, it was suggested that he did so because the orchestra members didn't like the piece and suggested it through their behaviour. More likely, and later suggested, it was because they were unruly -- a leftover from Arthur Fielder's laissez-faire leading style -- and which came to a confrontation in this situation. We're still waiting for all the official details surrounding it.

I remember reading it was over the lyrics rather than the music per se. With orchestra members snickering at the lyrics. Anyone else recall hearing that?

[Thor 7,519]

There are so many different stories surrounding this. Yours might be right too, I don't know.

[Tom 4,670]

1 hour ago, pete said:

I remember reading it was over the lyrics rather than the music per se. With orchestra members snickering at the lyrics. Anyone else recall hearing that?

That is the story I have heard.  And, the lyrics are just so over the top.  Bergmanns are usually good--not sure what happened there.  

[Brando 1,864]

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

"Are you happy, Kenny? You win this round!" 

Thats the closing line of the documentary 

[QuartalHarmony 543]

19 hours ago, pete said:

I remember reading it was over the lyrics rather than the music per se

I appreciate how disloyal this may seem, but, to my mind, neither music nor lyrics are up to JW’s (or the Bergmans’) customary standard. When I first heard the story about the orchestra’s apparent disdain for the work, I wasn’t surprised. Years before, when I’d first heard the Philips recording, I didn’t think much of it either. The Pops might have been impolite and even unprofessional in their actions, but they were not without discernment.

 

Mark

[Jurassic Shark 12,084]

6 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

I appreciate how disloyal this may seem

 

Disloyal? Only if you're William Ross.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

You're not being disloyal, @QuartalHarmony, you're just expressing an opinion, dude.

Personally, I think that "America The Dream Goes On" is shit.

[Mr. Hooper 1,800]

57 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Personally, I think that "America The Dream Goes On" is shit.

So with this in mind, I went over to YouTube and listened to it for the first time...

 

It felt cheesy, but I expected as much from a tune called "America, The Dream Goes On"...and once I got over my initial cynicism, I got into the spirit, and by the end felt like saluting the American flag—though I'm Canadian. The lyrics seemed fine, too. But I'll admit it's an easy target for a snarky musician to make fun of. It's cheesily earnest.

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Will they interview daisy ridley? 

[JohnnyD 1,223]

On 26/10/2023 at 10:15 AM, Jay said:

Small update:

 

Spielberg is currently editing a documentary centered around his longtime composer, John Williams. That’s been taking up most of his time.

 

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2023/10/25/9q4ycdqgif8m49o49d4cy18p19a47q

Awesome! I hope we get a trailer for the documentary, hopefully before the end of the year; hoping the documentary will be released in 2024.

[BB-8 3,482]

The classical music gazettes have it.

 

Can't even spell Steven correctly...

 

 

Stephen Spielberg is making a film about John Williams - Slippedisc

[JTN 2,042]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

The classical music gazettes have it.

 

Can't even spell Steven correctly...

 

 

Stephen Spielberg is making a film about John Williams - Slippedisc

And he's basically quoting another site. :-D

I hope he doesn't spell Steven King's name incorrectly. 

[BB-8 3,482]

Stévane Denèphe

[BB-8 3,482]

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

On 27/10/2023 at 8:22 AM, mrbellamy said:

Nobody hates JWFan more than you do

Throughout the years posting on JWFan I've found that there is a certain hierarchy of posting that always persists, with various members rotating in and out to fill out vacancies.  Contrarian "voice of reason" posters, historians/compilers, funny guys, poll-makers, and goblins.  

[JTN 2,042]

4 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Throughout the years posting on JWFan I've found that there is a certain hierarchy of posting that always persists, with various members rotating in and out to fill out vacancies.  Contrarian "voice of reason" posters, historians/compilers, funny guys, poll-makers, and goblins.  

I’d much rather be “the funny guy” than all the other categories. I’m way too ignorant and tired to be the others.

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

On 01/11/2023 at 6:40 PM, BB-8 said:

The classical music gazettes have it.

 

Can't even spell Steven correctly...

 

 

Stephen Spielberg is making a film about John Williams - Slippedisc

 

Slipped Disc is not known for being on the ball or accurate. Isn't "gazette" just a fancy word for gossip magazine anyway?