SPOILER TALK: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Karen Allen interview

 

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/indiana-jones-karen-allen-ending-marian-ravenwood-1235658680/

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Its so sad they didnt go globetrotting together in dial of destiny. specially if that was spielbergs original idea

[Bellosh 3,420]

One thing that I noticed but still not bothered by it...and wondering if anyone else thought it...

 

The very end where Indy grabs the hat off the clothesline.  He grabs it really fast and very strong.  No way that's the injured and recovering Indy we just saw.  But if they were attempting to break the fourth wall and essentially tell us 'thats NOT all folks' (Looney tunes circle too).... doesn't Indy grabbing the hat in a normal way also give us the audience THE EXACT same feeling?

 

I don't mind them telling us 'hey this is all fake", like I don't.  But I also know Spielberg would never give you ambiguous moments like that but they'd still have all the charm in the world.

 

So regardless, the point of grabbing the hat is tell us 'indy is never done'...but was it right to do in such a comedic way? To tell the audience that the Indy in that apartment is the Indy we used to know?  It seems like a casual viewer might not even pick up on that.

 

But there's no way that old hurt Indy in there grabs a hat that fast like that.

[Andy 4,147]

I would never pin my fedora to a clothesline. Honestly the thought of the clothespins making impressions in the wet felt made me wince. 

[Datameister 2,044]

It was just an awkward final shot all around. I hated the goofy iris out. Big tonal disconnect from what was otherwise a pretty bittersweet and subdued ending.

[Bellosh 3,420]

5 minutes ago, Datameister said:

It was just an awkward final shot all around. I hated the goofy iris out. Big tonal disconnect from what was otherwise a pretty bittersweet and subdued ending.

 

Yes!  Which makes me wonder if it was an intentional breaking of the 4th wall.  Like why?  They never did in any of the other movies.

 

Spielberg's magic was missed in certain parts.  

 

We as the audience still get the same reaction if he grabs the hat normally.

[Andy 4,147]

My admittedly fan servicey ending rolls the credits over the final scene, eventually fading to black, consistent with the other films. 

[Datameister 2,044]

5 minutes ago, Andy said:

My admittedly fan servicey ending rolls the credits over the final scene, eventually fading to black, consistent with the other films. 

 

I've been thinking about your ending and while it is indeed very fan servicey, I think I would have liked it better than what we got. It's certainly more cheerful than "Indy gets to process his deep grief and heal from near-death as he begins rebuilding his relationship with Marion after ending his teaching career with a whimper in a world where he's become irrelevant."

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm hating the fact that it ended that way. The film as a whole wasn't a TROS-level disappointment for me, but ending Dr. Jones's story on such a glum note is a surprising mistake that's hard to look past.

[Bellosh 3,420]

 dark/sad = deep to most scriptwriters these days unfortunately 

[Datameister 2,044]

11 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 dark/sad = deep to most scriptwriters these days unfortunately 

 

I can totally get onboard with a darker or sadder story. It just feels so weird and unsatisfying to take a pulpy adventure series and revive it 15 years after its last revival, only to end it that way.

[Bellosh 3,420]

2 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

I can totally get onboard with a darker or sadder story. It just feels so weird and unsatisfying to take a pulpy adventure series and revive it 15 years after its last revival, only to end it that way.

 

Yeah ultimately same....but Marion and Indy divorcing from the death of their son is one thing.....but for it to be magically fixed (off screen too!) just seems like sloppy writing.

 

Like it was never going to be explained beyond the fact that Indy and Marion are meant to be together. So if they just fix it off screen (which they did)....what's the point of going dark and sad?

 

If she was in the movie before the very end, it could have resolved that. We could have seen her side of it.

 

Idk seems sloppy

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

14 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Its so sad they didnt go globetrotting together in dial of destiny. specially if that was spielbergs original idea

 

Sounds boring.

[Laserschwert 475]

The grabbing of the hat clearly indicated that Marion and Indy were going at it in the apartment and decided to turn it up a notch.

[Sweeping Strings 2,365]

1 hour ago, Laserschwert said:

The grabbing of the hat clearly indicated that Marion and Indy were going at it in the apartment and decided to turn it up a notch.

 
Sex at his age ... surely his most perilous adventure yet!  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

He needs an Anal Intruder 

[oierem 152]

Considering the Indy series as a whole, I find that both Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny have the same function: an epilogue of sorts, in which "old tired Indy" goes from being depressed at how the world is changing to finding a new family and a reason to life. And in that regard, I think Crystal Skull is a much more satisfactory epilogue than Dial of Destiny, because it's actually a happy ending for Indy. Heck, even the final shot of Indy grabbing the hat works much better in Skull!

 

That being said, the Indy films are essentially independent films, so I like that each film has its own sidekicks. And Dial is a fun and enjoyable film! Just not the best ending to the series.  

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Guess they’d better make another one! They’ll get it right eventually!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

Like the great bard said:

#No use complaining, don't you worry, don't you whine, cos if you get it wrong, you'll get it right, next time#

 

[TolkienSS 407]

They should have done an entirely different plotline.

You can even use part of the same story. Here goes:

 

Indy is retiring, divorced and sad that Mutt, who became estranged to him, has died in the war.  Indy is ready to move to another country to escape it all. Helena, who is the same character she is now, is having a meetup with Indy asking him where he'll go. He says he won't tell anyone. Helena asks Indy if he knows how Mutt died. He says he died in an ambush. Helena says she doesn't believe that, that she feels he's still alive. Indy asks why. She tells Indy that she received a letter from Mutt or Mutts army buddy, that Mutt discovered something in the jungle that he was killed for. Indy is disgusted she would keep that from him. She says she had a closer relationship with Mutt (maybe romantic), and that Mutt wanted Indy not to know about any of it and his discovery because he knew Indy would come for him. And that some things are better left alone because it doesn't make the Situation better. But there was a piece of an artefact with the letter and she wanted Indy to come with her to finish what Mutt started. Indy says something like "You know damn well I'm not coming to hunt some damn voodoo story."

He finishes his drink, gets up and leaves. Helena asks

"Where are you going?"

"To Vietnam to honor the memory of my son - and if you care as you claim you do, you better come with me!"

Then you can have shenanigans that Helena wants the artefact to sell yadda yadda.

Then Indy finds out that Mutt didn't die, he travelled to the past. Then Indy follows him to the past, then you can have the shit with Indy wanting to stay in the past actually make sense,then you can have both Mutt and Indy wake up in New York 1969.

Better ending: Indy takes the hat, leaves the hospital with Marion in his arm, and puts it on Mutt's head, Raiders March, the end.

 

That's a much more fulfilling story, and I came up with it between dinner and taking a loo.

[JTN 2,053]

6 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

Guess they’d better make another one! They’ll get it right eventually!

“If Harrison Ford can do one more, so can I.”

– John Williams at 110.

[Tom 4,673]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

“If Harrison Ford can do one more, so can I.”

– John Williams at 110.

"That damn composer follows me wherever I go."

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:39 AM, Laserschwert said:

The grabbing of the hat clearly indicated that Marion and Indy were going at it in the apartment and decided to turn it up a notch.

Thats what i thought

[Andy 4,147]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:39 AM, Laserschwert said:

The grabbing of the hat clearly indicated that Marion and Indy were going at it in the apartment and decided to turn it up a notch.

 Which works as a reversal callback to the scene in Raiders where they are getting into it and Marion flips the hat off his head. 

[JTN 2,053]

 

[Chen G. 3,954]

Watched out of sheer curiosity.

 

Sad old Indy is sad, no surprises there. My conceptual objection to the movie stands unchanged. In and of itself, its not a bad motion picture but it is a very peculiar one. I think the moment that underlined just how much I associate Indiana Jones with Spielberg and that retro aesthetic was the map montage: it just looked so different.

 

But the thing that's really different is the sensibility Mangold gives to some of the storytelling. This film doesn't feel like Logan (nor should it!) but it does share one thing with that film: the wanton, unceremonious killing of bystanders. It happens multiple times in the movie, not to any dramatic effect: its just there. Feels very incongrous in an Indiana Jones movie.

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

The killing worked for me, but it did stick out as different from the previous movies and it doesn’t surprise me it might not work for everybody.

[TolkienSS 407]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Watched out of sheer curiosity.

 

Sad old Indy is sad, no surprises there. My conceptual objection to the movie stands unchanged. In and of itself, its not a bad motion picture but it is a very peculiar one. I think the moment that underlined just how much I associate Indiana Jones with Spielberg and that retro aesthetic was the map montage: it just looked so different.

 

But the thing that's really different is the sensibility Mangold gives to some of the storytelling. This film doesn't feel like Logan (nor should it!) but it does share one thing with that film: the wanton, unceremonious killing of bystanders. It happens multiple times in the movie, not to any dramatic effect: its just there. Feels very incongrous in an Indiana Jones movie.

 

Showing the actual burned corpse of Voller just for the moment of Archimedes taking the watch off his hand, was gross.

What's the purpose of that? Nobody wants or needs to see that.

 

The prologue to the film is much more entertaining than the film itself, and feels like the finale to a far superior film than what we got. And you know what? I'd rather suspend my disbelief that I'm seeing a de-aged Harrison Ford, than sitting through a movie like this twice.

 

This is one of the most expensive movies ever made, and for that, it really looks like shit. We all know that significant reshoots made the budget so high, but it still looks like crap. Not only is the battle of Syracuse really bad CGI, you've also never seen such obvious green screens since the late 90s/early 2000s.

 

Another thing that's making this film so strange to me is that they seemingly go out of their way to make Helena look like a slu... sleeparound. Several times, I counted at least 4 times, she's straight up lusting after some random dude.

Is this what these weirdos think Indy is like?

 

Speaking of Indy-like, he's really totally incapable in this one. Gets captured four times, gets shot twice, gets hung once, gets constantly beaten, sits like a schoolboy while Helena singlehandedly cracks the Polybius Cypher, with a "I thought you were bright" burn on top, and is shown to be inept navigating through Tangiers.

 

If you ever wanted an Indy movie where Indy does literally nothing to contribute to the main plot, this is your movie.

 

The film also completely abandons the fact Indy was wanted for murder. He's back in his apartment, everything's fine.

I don't want to know how this film was cobbled together.

 

Aside from being purposely depressing, it's also randomly depressing. Why is everyone randomly living in a dingy apartment in New York? Is this Seinfeld? Seeing Sallah wasting away in a tiny apartment with questionable Middle Eastern decor is just ... why?

It's intentionally demystifying characters that were larger than life. That was very much on purpose.

The movie is openly mocking these characters.

When Sallah is begging Indy to go with him because he misses desert and ocean, and Sallah wants to yell a heroic "Give em hell Indiana Jones" only to have the moment cut short into a "old man walks the street" joke, I was mentally done with this.

You can stuff your deconstruction in a sack, Mangold. If he's serious that it's "a segment of the audience" that rejects this, he's really ignorant.

[Datameister 2,044]

@TolkienSS I didn't have a problem with the grossness of showing Voller's body, but it did stand out as the only time in the franchise we see the main villain's mangled corpse just lying there. Normally that stuff is swept away by supernatural powers.

 

I was actually disappointed that Voller's death wasn't more gruesome, or at least more interesting. In the past, all the main villains have been taken out supernaturally. And Raiders and TLC gave theirs truly grotesque deaths. Voller just gets a plane crash. I was all ready for him to get rapidly deaged by the Antikythera! Like Donovan, but in reverse. Imagine him shriveling into a screaming fetus and beyond, eventually popping right out of existence, out of time itself!

 

Sorry if I seem sadistic. I'm a pacifist, but when it comes to Indiana Jones, I want to see the boss baddie suffer.

[Not Mr. Big 4,643]

I personally found his death to be a bit sanitized and Disney eque.  You got Romans and the bad guy dies in a plane crash (rather than taking a spear to the head or being crucified)

[Sweeping Strings 2,365]

Had no problem with the glimpse of flame-grilled Voller ... this is, after all, a series that has previously featured exploding/imploding heads, melting faces, death by propellor, death by rock-crusher, enforced blood-drinking, hearts plucked from chests etc.    

[Holko 9,532]

And those were all stylised cartoon violence or mostly offscreen, unlike the camera lingering on gruesome realistic burns.

[Sweeping Strings 2,365]

My point was that this series has 'previous' when it comes to nasty/gross deaths. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

4 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Had no problem with the glimpse of flame-grilled Voller ... this is, after all, a series that has previously featured exploding/imploding heads, melting faces, death by propellor, death by rock-crusher, enforced blood-drinking, hearts plucked from chests etc.    

 

... death by rapid ageing, death by falling tank, death by being garrotted by a leather whip and a ceiling fan, death by being impaled on spikes, death by a zillion poison darts, death by careless driving, death by falling and being eaten by crocodiles, death by having your brains burnt out from the inside with funny light coming out of your eyes, death by falling up and not into space, but the space between spaces, death by being zapped by The Almighty, death by being crushed in-between ships, death by being lowered into molten lava, death by being eaten by ants.

Fun, for all the family 

[TolkienSS 407]

6 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Had no problem with the glimpse of flame-grilled Voller ... this is, after all, a series that has previously featured exploding/imploding heads, melting faces, death by propellor, death by rock-crusher, enforced blood-drinking, hearts plucked from chests etc.    

 

Previous deaths were clearly fantasy deaths and very clearly exaggerated. And they served a purpose. And Spielberg didn't zoom in on the mangled remains of the Kali victim or the rotten face of the Nazi killed by the grail.

Voller's burned corpse in full view twice is just morbid. And way too close to reality.

I don't want to know what this can trigger in someone who has had someone close burned or killed in a burning Car/plane; he's watching an Indy flick and then that.

I don't think there are people who had relatives lost to the miracle of the Ark of the Covenant or due to voodoo heart removal.

 

But it's in line with the bad taste of the rest of the film.

[Tydirium 1,167]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

And they served a purpose.

 

This served a purpose, though. The watch was on Voller’s corpse.

[Not Mr. Big 4,643]

It didn't seem like all that violent to me.  Like they just sprayed him with some ashes and ketchup.  Anakin in ROTS is much more gruesome 

[Andy 4,147]

On 8/7/2023 at 4:02 PM, Chen G. said:

But the thing that's really different is the sensibility Mangold gives to some of the storytelling. This film doesn't feel like Logan (nor should it!) but it does share one thing with that film: the wanton, unceremonious killing of bystanders. It happens multiple times in the movie, not to any dramatic effect: its just there. Feels very incongrous in an Indiana Jones movie.

I was okay with Klaber shooting everyone because I kept thinking it was setting up his comeuppance. I figured the payoff for it would be wonderfully cinematic, that he’d get his just desserts ‘Indiana Jones style’.  I was disappointed that it was just a plane crash for this neo Nazi goon. 

[King Mark 3,631]

2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

It didn't seem like all that violent to me.  Like they just sprayed him with some ashes and ketchup.  Anakin in ROTS is much more gruesome 

yeah I barely registered  the Voller corpse scene

[Vince 34]

On 09/07/2023 at 6:41 AM, Datameister said:

Sorry if I seem sadistic. I'm a pacifist, but when it comes to Indiana Jones, I want to see the boss baddie suffer.

 

I understand your disapointment with his death but I did really enjoy Voller's prolonged moment of realization. He got more time than any of the previous villains to understand the 'one stop shop' nature of the dial. Klaber reacting to his own incomprehension with violence was also pretty accurate for the kind of posturing manbaby he clearly was. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,365]

15 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

Previous deaths were clearly fantasy deaths and very clearly exaggerated. And they served a purpose. And Spielberg didn't zoom in on the mangled remains of the Kali victim or the rotten face of the Nazi killed by the grail.

Voller's burned corpse in full view twice is just morbid. And way too close to reality.

I don't want to know what this can trigger in someone who has had someone close burned or killed in a burning Car/plane; he's watching an Indy flick and then that.

I don't think there are people who had relatives lost to the miracle of the Ark of the Covenant or due to voodoo heart removal.

 

But it's in line with the bad taste of the rest of the film.

Sorry, don't buy the 'potentially triggering' thing ... it's made clear that 'injury detail' is amongst the reasons for DOD's 12A certification.   

[Chen G. 3,954]

I don't mind Voller's corpse too much (even though it is out of step with the cartoony deaths of previous Indy heavies), but I do mind the deaths of the bystanders. In a movie like this (i.e. not something unceremoniously gritty like Logan or Braveheart) when characters die they typically, in some metaphorical sense, "deserve" it. Not morally-speaking, but just in the sense that they're not just idle bystanders but somebody who put their neck on the line in some sense. I guess you could say that about the Banderas character (although its stretching it a little) but the cop and the people in Indy's office? That's just brutal in a way that's totally out of step with the quixotic Indy series.

 

Its not the worst thing in the world, but its all just very peculiar and its one of the many, many ways in which this just doesn't feel like an Indiana Jones film. I guess that's what happens when four out of four entries in a film series were directed by the same person, and then a new upstart comes along... some film series are just too identified with a certain directorial style, and some of us do feel that if you're going to make a series, then a certain degree of stylistic uniformity is required.

 

All the more reason why Indy should have been left well alone in the Alexandretian sunset, I suppose. Its certainly a much better ending than two senior citizens fornicating.

[Datameister 2,044]

5 hours ago, Vince said:

 

I understand your disapointment with his death but I did really enjoy Voller's prolonged moment of realization. He got more time than any of the previous villains to understand the 'one stop shop' nature of the dial. Klaber reacting to his own incomprehension with violence was also pretty accurate for the kind of posturing manbaby he clearly was. 

 

Very fair points. I did appreciate those aspects.

 

@Chen G. Yeah, it's a pattern I never really thought about until it was suddenly broken. I guess counterexamples could include the sacrifice victim in TOD and … yeah, that's all I can think of. And that one doesn't have the element of surprise, since it's literally a whole scene building up to his demise. I guess Donovan does keep sending innocents to their death until Indy is forced to figure out what a penitent man does. But still.

 

Unrelated: It's interesting how many people use words like "cartoony" to describe deaths in the previous films. I suppose I understand the sentiment in some of the fight scenes, but I also think of Sapito, Belloq, Toht, Dietrich, the aforementioned sacrifice victim, Mola Ram, and Donovan. These are pretty grisly deaths. And then there are all the gross-out moments with corpses of the already-dead: Forestal, the Well of Souls mummies, the flayed human skins fluttering in the Pankot breeze, Francisco de Orellana—hardly the stuff of cartoons.

[karelm 2,915]

One thing that stood out to me, always the villain gets their comeuppance by getting the object of desire and instantly regretting it.  Here Voller and the Nazi's just crash their plane unceremoniously.  They should have been sucked out of time or something.  Maybe something like realizing they're in the wrong time, they try to leave through the time gate as it closes with Indy and team just making it out alive as the nazi's get caught in the door as it closed where they are in a constant state outside of time forever or something as they scream in agony.  That would have been more Indy.

[Vince 34]

I think we can safely say that Voller's death was far better handled than Mac's fate in KOTC. I guess I know what they were going for but it just didn't work on any level.

[Andy 4,147]

At any rate, I do applaud them for keeping this consistency:

 

The artifact always works, just not in the way the bad buys want because of their misunderstanding of it or use of it for greed.  And they pay for that.

[Bellosh 3,420]

4 minutes ago, Andy said:

At any rate, I do applaud them for keeping this consistency:

 

The artifact always works, just not in the way the bad buys want because of their misunderstanding of it or use of it for greed.  And they pay for that.

 

One thing I think DoD did (and HAD TO) was blow KOTCS's macguffin reveal/ending out of the water!

 

And I think it did.  It was bonkers. but a GOOD bonkers.

 

Also meeting Archimedes was handled with taste, just like the Grail Knight.  Glad they didn't have him speaking english like the grail knight 

[karelm 2,915]

8 hours ago, Andy said:

At any rate, I do applaud them for keeping this consistency:

 

The artifact always works, just not in the way the bad buys want because of their misunderstanding of it or use of it for greed.  And they pay for that.

 

But they wouldn't have if they had a better pilot.  It had nothing to do with the power of the artifact they carelessly wielded.    That's just very lame and anti-Indy. 

8 hours ago, Bellosh said:

 

One thing I think DoD did (and HAD TO) was blow KOTCS's macguffin reveal/ending out of the water!

 

And I think it did.  It was bonkers. but a GOOD bonkers.

 

Also meeting Archimedes was handled with taste, just like the Grail Knight.  Glad they didn't have him speaking english like the grail knight 

 

I think what you mean is that Indy for once got to experience the past.  Yes that was a delight.  It was just handled poorly.  With good story telling, one NEVER has the hero of the story be a passive participant in the climactic events.  Helena made the choice for him to return.  What should have happened is for once Indy feels at home in the past and wants to stay but realizes that at the twilight of his life, his time belongs to is his present because there is more to life than living in the past or something like that but the choice is his.  Maybe earlier in the script, spend a minute or two on him struggling to overcome his stubbornness and attempting to reconcile with Marion but that effort fails but in fact set the stage for the reconciliation at the end but it was all something he did.  Recall TLC how the grail was seductive like the mythical sirens that would lure sailors to their deaths through seductive means.   Indy reached for it nearly losing his soul but it was only his father, who for the first time in the entire film, called him by name, that pulled him away from the siren's song resulting in Indy deciding to let it go realizing the treasure isn't the artifact in the first place.  How would you like TLC to have indy reach for it and get knocked out by dad to wake up in his bed but even worse then a massive ex machina of the grail or Marion were somehow in his possession?  Lousy story telling.

 

But it was VERY fun to see the past in such glory and grant my wish of hearing JW score an epic historical spectacle drama like Gladiator even if briefly.  It's crazy the range he showed here.  The 70's espionage music, retro female theme that felt very much like his 80's stuff, exciting historical epic battle, great villain theme, etc.

 

I rate this film about 6.5/10.  Good, fun, lots of missed opportunities and mediocre story/plot, fantastic score of course and points for nostalgia.  Pretty much on par with KOTCS which is better directed but also a lazy script and lacking some of the fun set pieces this one has.  It just could have been alot better without much effort.

 

My ratings of all the films:

 

1. ROTLA: 10/10 firing on all cylinders and perfect filmmaking, etc.

2. TLC: 8/10 so much fun but added depth to Indy too

3. TOD: 7/10 a few plot holes but still fun including some damn good set pieces (the bug hallway and Willy seduction scene)

4/5 tie: KOTCS/DOD: 6.5/10 overall enjoyable but many missed opportunities and plot holes.

[Bellosh 3,420]

13 minutes ago, karelm said:

I think what you mean is that Indy for once got to experience the past. 

 

 

You're probably right. Almost feels like the last thing on his checklist if we're being honest.

 

What I missed in my post was the sense of wonder and surprise from the ending.

 

KOTCS did not have that sense of wonder when we finally get to the (kingdom???) of all those aliens....

 

Probably because we already knew what the head looked like for half the f'n movie.

 

 

[Brónach 1,302]

13 hours ago, Bellosh said:

 

You're probably right. Almost feels like the last thing on his checklist if we're being honest.

 

What I missed in my post was the sense of wonder and surprise from the ending.

 

KOTCS did not have that sense of wonder when we finally get to the (kingdom???) of all those aliens....

 

Probably because we already knew what the head looked like for half the f'n movie.

 

 

 

half of this movie should take place in the past, half of KIngdom should have taken place in Kuzkotopia or whatever (the first of the two is easier since you have real historical locations and it's way funnier for this character who, for example, once talked to that knight).

 

example: a lot of Temple of Doom takes place in this made up Temple of Doom! 

 

it can be okay to be "silly".

[Bellosh 3,420]

one thing about killing off Mutt, at least to me, it comes off too 'meta'

 

its like hey, you know that character/actor that nobody seemed to agree on?

 

let's kill him for Indy's arc in DoD.

 

I'm sure there's precedent for this (can't think of any off the top of my head), and I'm not even trying to say I'm feeling this because i didn't mind Mutt, it just seemed like low-effort, low-hanging fruit.  And purposely treating KOTCS like a poor entry in the franchise.  Too meta.

 

What's worse (KOTCS's fault, ultimately) is that we barely see Indy and Mutt establish a good father/son relationship.

 

Something about killing him off comes off as lazy, even if it does work for DoD's story.

 

If you're going to make a 'pointless' character, atleast don't make him a family member.