Which of Williams themes would deserve an own Theme Suite (but hasn't yet)

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Probably such a thread exists already.

 

But I wonder from time to time, wouldn't it be great, to have a concert piece of the love theme from Temple of Doom or Kylo Ren's theme or Poe Dameron's theme from The Force Awakens.

 

I think, there are many themes by Williams, which would deserve an own concert piece. Recently such opportunities turned into violin arrangements for ASM. But that would not be, what I am looking for. Just like Williams had the late realization, that it would good to write a concert piece for Marion's theme. which is great.

 

There might be much more. Any ideas?

 

The grail theme from Last Crusade maybe?

Or the Force Theme from Star Wars? Never had a concert arrangement.

Or the Cloud City March?

 

Make your wishes!

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

9 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

the love theme from Temple of Doom or Kylo Ren's theme or Poe Dameron's theme from The Force Awakens.

 

These would all be great to have, especially an extended Poe's theme. 

 

I'd like a A New Beginning from Minority Report. I'll be happy with a piano arrangement. 

 

9 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Or the Force Theme from Star Wars? Never had a concert arrangement.

 

You planted the seed for the derailment of this thread in the first post. Most impressive.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I was actually going to ask if any fan-made suites might be made.

A Force Theme suite is quite notably absent.

And I like the "Russians" from KotCS that a member here did.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

57 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'd like a A New Beginning from Minority Report. I'll be happy with a piano arrangement. 

That one exists on the third Williams / Spielberg Collaboration album:

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Forgot about that. Is it published by Hal Leonard?

 

Anyway, we need a theme for Indy.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

At least it is not in the piano anthology. Unfortunately.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Yeah, there's no official piano arrangement of ANB.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I would even prefer Sean's Theme over ANB for piano to be honest.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Too bad there wasn't a piano folio published. 

[Edmilson 7,466]

It'd be nice to see Holdo's theme from TLJ being developed in a concert suite.

[igger6 894]

Love Theme From the Flipping Terminal!!!!

 

Also Willie's Theme.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

34 minutes ago, igger6 said:

Love Theme From the Flipping Terminal!!!!

 

But this one has an arrangement in the OST. It's called Jazz Autographs.

 

 

[Thor 7,515]

Tons of themes I would love to see Williams expand upon and create suites out of, but even more than that, I would love to see him go back and redo some of the old 60s scores that never got a soundtrack release at the time. For example, one of my least favourite JW scores JOHN GOLDFARB PLEASE COME HOME. I've tried to playlist it into something more listenable, but even my brief 25-minute program feels scatterbrained and unsatisfactory. I think the only thing that could possibly have saved it was if Williams had done a rerecorded album out of it at the time, like he did with PENELOPE, NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T, HOW TO STEAL A MILLION etc. Shortened some bits there, expanded some bits there, rerecorded it with each track having an individual identity, perhaps add some things that weren't even in the film for maximum flow etc. But that will forever remain a pipe dream.

 

Sorry, this was a little bit beside the topic.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Better late than never. The JOHN GOLDFARB PLEASE COME HOME SUITE performed by the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

One can dream.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

The Sexist Comedies Suite

[Edmilson 7,466]

6 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Better late than never. The JOHN GOLDFARB PLEASE COME HOME SUITE performed by the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

One can dream.

 

It'd be great, especially for fans who only know his scores from the 70s onward. But I think JW is also in a way a businessman and maybe he thinks all the time and money invested on re-recording his earlier scores will be worth it financially. For all the classics and box office recordists that he scored, his 60s output is mostly composed of forgotten films that are only interesting to his diehard fans. 

 

Maybe when he passes away someone may do that, like they did with Goldsmith's Thriller scores?

[igger6 894]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

But this one has an arrangement in the OST. It's called Jazz Autographs.

 

 

That’s fair, but I want a proper three minutes of strings and horns in the vein of Leia or Can You Read My Mind. What we get around the 2:00 mark of this piece, but the whole time. 

[QuartalHarmony 543]

5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Or the Force Theme from Star Wars? Never had a concert arrangement.

Well, it sort of did. In the ESB piano folio, there’s an arrangement called ‘May the Force be with you’ which has a straightforward AABA structure. The B theme is perfectly good but I don’t think I’ve ever heard it done orchestrally. I’ve wondered where it came from - did JW write it for piano, perhaps intending to orchestrate it but never got round to it?

 

Mark

[GerateWohl 4,370]

15 minutes ago, igger6 said:

That’s fair, but I want a proper three minutes of strings and horns in the vein of Leia or Can You Read My Mind. What we get around the 2:00 mark of this piece, but the whole time. 

Sounds like you should write your own arrangement of it, if you don't like what Williams did with it.

 

8 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

Well, it sort of did. In the ESB piano folio, there’s an arrangement called ‘May the Force be with you’ which has a straightforward AABA structure. The B theme is perfectly good but I don’t think I’ve ever heard it done orchestrally. I’ve wondered where it came from - did JW write it for piano, perhaps intending to orchestrate it but never got round to it?

 

Mark

Yes! I used to play that one. It's great. Actually, that was the reason after all why I bought the Gerhardt album for The Empire Strikes Back, because that contains a track called "May the Force Be With You" and I hoped it would be an orchestrated version of the piano piece, but it wasn't.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well we can add that new theme from end of the prologue of Dial of Destiny.

 

Also:

Trade Federation March

Tintin's Heroic Theme 

Guigon's Theme

Sophie's Theme from BFG

Van Helsing's Theme from Dracula

Coronado theme from Last Crusade

Phil's Theme from Heartbeeps

Poe's Theme

 

 

[igger6 894]

9 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Sounds like you should write your own arrangement of it, if you don't like what Williams did with it.

Ha! I just think the jazz approach is so wildly different from its best moments as a straight love theme elsewhere in the score (see “Destiny…Canneloni”) that it would benefit from a more Golden Age treatment in extended suite form. It’s such a sweet melody when played straight that the piano and bass noodling seem to diminish it. (For comparison, consider how some listeners feel about the cadenzas and adornments in the Mutter arrangements vis-à-vis the originals.) 
 

Are we sure that “Jazz Autographs” is a concert suite and isn’t actually from the body of the score? I haven’t seen the movie since the theater.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

13 hours ago, igger6 said:

Are we sure that “Jazz Autographs” is a concert suite and isn’t actually from the body of the score? I haven’t seen the movie since the theater.

I am quite sure that this is a dedicated OST arrangement.

And I understand what you are aiming for. On the other hand I understand why Williams approached the piece how he did as this is not a kind of theme that leaves a lot of space for harmonical variation like Williams' themes usually do.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Does Last Crusade actually have a true concert suite at all?

I got the impression they're all film cues (or intended as, at least).

That's weird for Williams...

[GerateWohl 4,370]

14 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

Does Last Crusade actually have a true concert suite at all?

I got the impression they're all film cues (or intended as, at least).

That's weird for Williams...

The first three Indy movies didn't have any concert suites on the OSTs except the Raiders March on the Raiders OST.

Some were later created for the Williams/Spielberg albums like

• The Basket Chase
• Marion's Theme
• Slave Children's Parade
• Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra

The last one is the only one from Last Crusade, that I am aware of.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

Escape from Venice is an easy candidate for a concert arrangement.

 

And the Finale & End Credits from TLC, probably among JW's top 10 compositions.

[Holko 9,529]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

The first three Indy movies didn't have any concert suites on the OSTs except the Raiders March on the Raiders OST.

That's the credits cue, just not cut down.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Escape from Venice is an easy candidate for a concert arrangement.

 

 

This disc had (I think) exactly that on it:

 

 

Track 14 is Escape from Venice - I haven't listened to it for ages so I can't remember if it's a concert arrangement or just a straight run through of the film version. If the former, it may well not be a Williams arrangement - Kunzel often used third-party arrangers for his album pieces.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I have a re-recording of Escape From Venice in my collection.

But it's basically identical to the film version.

Not a special concert edition.

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

Lots of Star Wars pieces I think can and should be suites:

The Cloud City/Lando March
The Trade Federation March
Qui-Gon's Theme
Entrance of the Monsters (Clone March)
Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's Theme(s)
The First Order March (like come on!)
Poe Dameron's Theme
Holdo's Resolve

Also think you can turn Into the Trap into a concert suite if you tried hard enough.

[JohnnyRoastbeef 6]

My absolute #1 would be a concert piece for orchestra and choir that combines the Ark and Medallion themes from Raiders. 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

The Russians theme from KOTCS, in all its jazzy glory

[Coco314 16]

On 28/06/2023 at 8:15 PM, JohnnyRoastbeef said:

My absolute #1 would be a concert piece for orchestra and choir that combines the Ark and Medallion themes from Raiders. 

That's a good one, would be amazing !

 

One I was always missing :

Tinkerbell's Theme

Hook had a five movement suite that does not contain a single apparition of this fantastic theme I believe. I know there is 'the Arrival of Tink' on the OST, but it does not have a proper theme structure (and has Firebird in the middle of it ;-) )

It is really one of Hook geatest melodies, much more deserving of a proper theme than say Irina Spalko (although I like this one and would like it to be released, sure)

[Bellosh 3,419]

Lando's/Cloud City....still so unreal how good of a theme that is and how late it shows up in that movie and score....only JW maaan.

 

Willie's Theme

[Tom 4,665]

Every theme from AI.  Well, I suppose For Always has its version, but everything else.  

[igger6 894]

On 28/06/2023 at 11:54 AM, Courtney said:

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's Theme(s)

In my John-Williams-score-release-week content frenzy, I ended up back at the Filmtracks review of TLJ, and I understood for the first time why people say that “Peace and Purpose” contained the seeds of a full-on Kylo Ren concert suite.  That third phrase that appears after the usual two sounds so inevitable once you notice it, and if you just tack on a second playing of the second phrase, you’ve got a nice little four-line stanza. Now add a nice B theme and presto! (I don’t think the existing mournful B theme is enough, though.)

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

41 minutes ago, igger6 said:

In my John-Williams-score-release-week content frenzy, I ended up back at the Filmtracks review of TLJ, and I understood for the first time why people say that “Peace and Purpose” contained the seeds of a full-on Kylie Ren concert suite.  That third phrase that appears after the usual two sounds so inevitable once you notice it, and if you just tack on a second playing of the second phrase, you’ve got a nice little four-line stanza. Now add a nice B theme and presto! (I don’t think the existing mournful B theme is enough, though.)

Gonna be thinking about this forever.

[King Mark 3,631]

The theme for the British army guys at the end of ToD

[Demodex 557]

This thread does already exist here somewhere. It's how I found out about a Han and Leia suite. 

 

For me, my biggest wish is for a Qui-Gon theme suite. 

[QuartalHarmony 543]

20 hours ago, Coco314 said:

and has Firebird in the middle of it ;-)

Ooh, time stamp, please! I’m a big fan of Firebird and Hook, but I’ve never noticed this…

 

Totally agree that Tink could easily have a concert suite movement, although JW might have been reticent since it would then start to remind people of Tchaikovsky’s Sugar Plum Fairy, with which it was very likely tracked.

 

In fact, a Hook Suite (like the Nutcracker Suite) would have been a blast - eight (ish) movements, one theme per movement, all main themes covered. If only.

 

Mark

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I am thinking sometimes, there are some great themes in War Horse, that really could use a dedicated concert arrangement. On the other hand, it is already great, what we have there in the score. But it just has great themes.

 

From Tin Tin we have the Main Title, The Duel and Snowy's Theme. But I am also sure here, that there is more to explore for concert suites. 

 

Apart from that I realized, that we are really blessed concert arrangements of Williams themes. There is actually not so much missing.

 

One of the best concert arrangement in the category that we didn't know we missed before we got it out is the Adagio from The Force Awakens for me.

[TolkienSS 407]

Definitely Kylo Ren theme.

[King Mark 3,631]

11 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I am thinking sometimes, there are some great themes in War Horse, that really could use a dedicated concert arrangement. On the other hand, it is already great, what we have there in the score. But it just has great themes.

.

yeah the Plowing theme

[BB-8 3,480]

Holdo's Theme

 

 

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Some of these have had statements in end credits suites, but still.

 

Kylo Ren

Voller & Antikythera

Russian Theme from Crystal Skull

Nazi Theme from Last Crusade

Poe

[BB-8 3,480]

I would welcome a fast jazz suite of Helena's Theme, based on the "To Athens"-variation.

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

The Force Theme feels like the most obvious candidate, being such a major theme from his best known scores. As I've mentioned before, I would consider the Force Theme to be the "main" Star Wars theme and perhaps a better musical summation of the spirit of the series (particularly the mysticism of the Jedi) than the actual main theme which is much more straightforwardly upbeat (brilliant though it is).

 

However, my main thought is that many of JW's concert arrangements (or theme suites, if you will) come from score cues or end credits medleys, which are expanded into something standalone. Many of those suggested above would fit that category (including the Force Theme - maybe something derived from Binary Sunset) and/or get lots of variations within the scores themselves so there's quite a bit of material to work from. It's a testament to how good JW's themes are that his secondary (or tertiary... or "only appears once") themes are as good as, if not better than main themes by 99% of other film composers, but it's debatable whether some of them would work in an extended arrangement.

 

It reminds me of the song "Good Thing Going" from Stephen Sondheim's Merrily We Roll Along where the two male leads (a songwriting partnership) play the (absolutely lovely) song at a cocktail party and everyone listens enraptured. However, when they are persuaded to sing it a second time, the partygoers start to become restless and go back to their conversations. Leave them wanting more and all that...

 

My stronger preference would actually be for JW to have write/arrange some longer tone poem/suite type arrangements from his scores that get away from the 4 or 5 minute pops type arrangements. As I have also mentioned before, the 21 minute CE3K suite from the Gerhardt Star Wars album is a superb distillation of the score that could function as a standalone concert work as well as anything by Richard Strauss or Sibelius (OK, maybe I'm overreaching a bit...). Of course it helps that CE3K is one of his finest scores and has a musical narrative arc that is perhaps easier to compress into 21 minutes. The dark to light, dissonant to romantic and tonal trajectories are ideally suited to the form, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would benefit from such a treatment. ET springs immediately to mind which has a not dissimilar musical arc of spooky/threatening to heartwarming to exciting and grandiose by the finale - plus he could reinstate the bit where the bikes take off and fly in Adventures on Earth!

[GerateWohl 4,370]

33 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

My stronger preference would actually be for JW to have write/arrange some longer tone poem/suite type arrangements from his scores that get away from the 4 or 5 minute pops type arrangements. As I have also mentioned before, the 21 minute CE3K suite from the Gerhardt Star Wars album is a superb distillation of the score that could function as a standalone concert work as well as anything by Richard Strauss or Sibelius (OK, maybe I'm overreaching a bit...). Of course it helps that CE3K is one of his finest scores and has a musical narrative arc that is perhaps easier to compress into 21 minutes. The dark to light, dissonant to romantic and tonal trajectories are ideally suited to the form, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would benefit from such a treatment. ET springs immediately to mind which has a not dissimilar musical arc of spooky/threatening to heartwarming to exciting and grandiose by the finale - plus he could reinstate the bit where the bikes take off and fly in Adventures on Earth!

Hm. I am not sure about that. Yes, in case of CE3K it worked out well. But very often such tone poems suffer from many inevitable ommissions. Mentioning E.T., the concert suite of Adventures on Earth always goes on my nerves as I consider the original version really as perfect. And this change the order of parts or even just cutting them in the middle for time reasons hardly ever work out for me. Last example is listening to some of the suites on the recent DG album of Joe Hisaishi's Studio Ghibli suites. Same thing here.

Sometimes it works out well like Williams' concert arrangement for Dartmoor 1912, where he merges the opening with the finale or the DE3K suite. Also his Far and Away suite, that he played in Berlin is great. But it can badly fail sometimes.

 

39 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

The Force Theme feels like the most obvious candidate, being such a major theme from his best known scores. As I've mentioned before, I would consider the Force Theme to be the "main" Star Wars theme and perhaps a better musical summation of the spirit of the series (particularly the mysticism of the Jedi) than the actual main theme which is much more straightforwardly upbeat (brilliant though it is).

 

Wouldn't it be a welcome challenge for our passionate editors here in the forum to distill the perfect Force Theme concert arrangement from the hundreds of renditions in Williams' Star Wars scores?  

My advice: Start with the beginning of the TESB finale.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

22 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Wouldn't it be a welcome challenge for our passionate editors here in the forum to distill the perfect Force Theme concert arrangement from the hundreds of renditions in Williams' Star Wars scores?  

My advice: Start with the beginning of the TESB finale.

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

i'd honestly love a new version of Yoda's Theme with the tempo thats in Empire's end credits. 

 

i will throw this track on instead of the actual yoda's theme almost all of the time to get my fill!

 

 

[crocodile 8,017]

Having heard the new Indy, I would really love Williams to arrange a nice villain suite combining all three themes (perhaps based on material from prologue, The Airport and end credits). He might hint at the Dial motif as well. I would love to hear that in concert.

 

And while we're talking this series, I think there shouls be way more concert suites. Where's Ark theme suite?

 

Karol