Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - Isolated Score Track

[bigjimwilson 256]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

I got the 4K UHD release for Christmas!  It's nice to legally own this isolated score.

 

Now to buy a 4K UHD disc player so I can watch the film with this track

 

I think I'm going to be putting myself in the same boat. Maybe this is the year I finally get round to buying the 4K player.... but I bet I buy the discs first

Hope you had a good Christmas Jay! 

[Jay 37,372]

It was pretty good, thank you!  How about you?

[bigjimwilson 256]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

It was pretty good, thank you!  How about you?

 

Super busy with gigs and work, so a bit "blink and you miss it" but all very lovely. And we got a beautiful new puppy shaped addition to the family  So I'm working round the clock to keep those tiny gnashers away from the precious music collection 

[Jay 37,372]

You must post puppy pics in the pet thread!

[Gurkensalat 340]

After listening to it a few times I start to like even the first 1944 part which contains lots of great action music. I am especially happy that it splits the New York 1969 track, so I can order the end credit tracks in reverse order which I prefer musically and narratively (Nazis->Helena->Indy is back!)

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The end credits of the film contain a bit of tracked material (after OST 2:29) and  then the ost track (minus the helena opening) is the true recording?

 

 

 

[Jay 37,372]

I think I've got a handle on all (?) the tracking in the final film - so going beyond the obvious "Helena's Tutorial" and "Voller's Interview" tracking in the early New York scenes that was mentioned forever ago.

 

First - has it been pointed out the end of Eels is replaced by Centipedes, and the opening of Centipedes is replaced by Eels?

 

1:21:39-1:23:30 (1:51) is supposed to be Eels, however:

• 1:22:47-1:23:30 (0:43) is tracked from Centipedes - compare to 1:46:31-1:47:18

Then 1:45:021:48:19 (3:16) is supposed to be Centipedes, however:

• 1:45:02-1:45:14 (0:12) is tracked from Eels - compare to 1:22:07-1:22:17

 

 

Second - In Teddy Is Kidnapped, which runs from 1:39:04-1:41:56 (2:52), two portions are other things:

• 1:39:41-1:39:55 (0:14) is tracked from To The Airport - compare to 1:55:17-1:55:27 / 1:55:52-1:55:57
• 1:40:20-1:40:54 (0:34) is the wild recording Helena In Action, chopped up a bit (the complete cue is in OST track "Tuk Tuk In Tangiers" from 2:28-end)

 

 

Third, I don't think anybody has pointed out that after Helena gets on board the plane and her theme plays as the landing gear door closes behind her, almost all of the music in the next almost 4 minutes (2:02:24-2:06:12) of screen time is tracked music?

1. 2:02:24-2:02:59 (0:35) this is tracked in from Water Ballet - compare to 1:24:38-1:25:03
2. 2:02:59-2:03:08 (0:09) brief section of no music
3. 2:03:08-2:03:36 (0:28) this is tracked in from Melting Wax - compare to 1:34:49-1:35:03
4. 2:03:36 -2:03:47 (0:11) this is tracked in from Centipedes, I believe
5. 2:03:47-2:04:09 (0:22) this is tracked in from Water Ballet, I believe
6. 2:04:09-2:04:38 (0:29) this is tracked in from Helena’s Tutorial - compare to 1:32:52-1:33:18
7. 2:04:38-2:05:18 (0:40) this is Through The Portal, the only music in this entire section that was meant to be here!
8. 2:05:18-2:05:32 (0:14) brief section of no music
9. 2:05:32-2:05:44 (0:12) this is tracked in from Ancient Syracuse - compare to 2:09:23-2:09:29
10. 2:05:44-2:06:12 (0:28) this is tracked in from  Water Ballet - compare to 1:25:48-1:26:12

 

Finally, Ancient Syracuse should run from 2:06:43-2:11:56 (4:53), but two sections are replaced by tracked music:

• 2:10:22-2:10:39 (0:17) is tracked from Through The Portal - compare to 2:04:38-2:05:18
• 2:10:51-2:10:58 (0:07) is tracked in from Confrontation At The Tomb - compare to 1:54:30-1:54:38

 

Phew!  If anybody has any better timestamps or any other commentary, please let me know!

 

(I think some of this tracked music actually contains music that was cut from the scene it was intended for!)

[tee_oh 20]

It's a puzzle for sure, and no small feat to even partially figuring out where all the pieces were originally meant to go.

 

Thanks for putting in the work in helping everyone understand how it was all put together! I wish it wasn't necessary but who knows if we'll ever get a proper official expansion of the maestro's intended vision.

 

For number 6 I think you mean it was tracked in from Polybius Cypher rather than Helena's Tutorial

 

In regards to the Ancient Syracuse section:

• 2:10:33-2:10:38 has a statement of Indy's theme that I feel like I recognize from another part of the score, but maybe was originally intended to be there and it's the tracked bit of Into the Portal that's making it sound out place lol. 
• 2:10:39-2:10:50 has this sustained string? chord that might belong there but sounds strangely out of place to my ears as well. Could be the same issue with the previous bit though or some kind of looping.

 

Also I noticed one bit of tracking in the middle of Melting Wax you missed, which is

• 1:36:19-1:36:35 (0:16) is tracked from Archimedes' Tomb - compare to 1:50:23-1:50:39

 

[Jay 37,372]

2 hours ago, tee_oh said:

For number 6 I think you mean it was tracked in from Polybius Cypher rather than Helena's Tutorial

 

Nope! In the film,

• 1:29:25-1:30:37 (1:12) = Polybius Cipher
• 1:30:37-1:33:25 (2:48) = Helena's Tutorial

So that means the OST track "Polybius Cypher" does not contain any of the Polybius Cypher cue, it only contains Helena's Tutorial and Escaping The Boat.

 

2 hours ago, tee_oh said:

In regards to the Ancient Syracuse section:

• 2:10:33-2:10:38 has a statement of Indy's theme that I feel like I recognize from another part of the score, but maybe was originally intended to be there and it's the tracked bit of Into the Portal that's making it sound out place lol. 
• 2:10:39-2:10:50 has this sustained string? chord that might belong there but sounds strangely out of place to my ears as well. Could be the same issue with the previous bit though or some kind of looping.

 

I think that statement of Indy's theme is from Through The Portal, just not part of the 40 seconds that remained in the earlier scene.

 

And yes that sustain sounds mucked with, but I think its from that cue.

 

2 hours ago, tee_oh said:

Also I noticed one bit of tracking in the middle of Melting Wax you missed, which is

• 1:36:19-1:36:35 (0:16) is tracked from Archimedes' Tomb - compare to 1:50:23-1:50:39

 

Wow, nice catch!  I'll check it out when I get a chance!

[tee_oh 20]

23 hours ago, Jay said:

So that means the OST track "Polybius Cypher" does not contain any of the Polybius Cypher cue, it only contains Helena's Tutorial and Escaping The Boat.

 

 

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification.

 

 

Aside from all the tracking, more carefully comparing both versions of Helena's Tutorial has made me notice a lot of differences in just this one cue.

 

Helena's tutorial in the OST track seems like either an alternate recording or there's been lots of microediting here and there. Aside from the obvious extra timpani, there are a few sections on the film version that are not in the OST version;

1) 1:31:38 to 1:31:47 (0:09)

2) 1:32:19 to 1:32:24 (0:05)

3) 1:32:38 to 1:32:54 (0:16)

4) 1:33:16 to 1:33:25 (0:09)

 

a section of the OST track that's not in the film version;

1:46 to 1:51 of Polybius Cypher - which would come in at 1:33:11 in the film version

 

as well as a section towards the end which is unique to each version 

compare 1:33:44 to 1:33:53 of the film version to 2:18 to 2:27 on the OST track (this part of the OST definitely sounds tacked on to me)

 

Just looking at all the differences in this single cue makes me wonder if there's tons more like this in the rest of the score that I hadn't noticed either 0_0

[Jay 37,372]

Interesting!  Don't forget you can also compare to when Helena's Tutorial is tracked into the early New York scene - 0:27:00-0:27:40 (0:40)

 

Speaking of those early New York scenes, I think almost all of Voller's first scene there with the room service is tracked from Voller's Interview, and only the final 20 seconds or so is Nazis

• 0:28:16-0:30:08 (1:52) = Voller's Interview
• 0:30:08-0:30:30 (0:22) = Nazis

And I think that has some unique material compared to what remains in the actual Voller's Interview scene (0:46:36-0:48:17 (1:41))

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I really hate this modern way of film-spotting. The sequels and this film are a complete mess to sort out

[Jay 37,372]

On 16/01/2024 at 10:13 AM, tee_oh said:

Also I noticed one bit of tracking in the middle of Melting Wax you missed, which is

• 1:36:19-1:36:35 (0:16) is tracked from Archimedes' Tomb - compare to 1:50:23-1:50:39

 

I finally had time to check this out.  Nice catch, you're totally right!  And its in the Archimede's Tomb OST track, so its definitely tracked from there into Melting Wax and not the other way around.

 

Crazy how much tracking this film actually has, when we originally thought there wasn't much!

[tee_oh 20]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Crazy how much tracking this film actually has, when we originally thought there wasn't much!

Seriously. I think it's because there are so many of these really short passages pasted around here and there, which you would only notice when listening really intently, while having listened to the rest of the score enough to recognize them from other cues. 

 

This last one I found was driving me crazy because I was certain I head that passage somewhere else in the score but I couldn't find it for so such a long time. 

[Jay 37,372]

On 09/01/2024 at 6:33 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

The end credits of the film contain a bit of tracked material (after OST 2:29) and  then the ost track (minus the helena opening) is the true recording?

 

I do believe that the OST track represents the end credits piece as-recorded, while the extra material in the film version is tracked in, put there by the music editor to extend the run time.

 

And I believe its tracked in from a different version of the opening of "To The Airport" than the film version opening.  It's probably the original "To The Airport", since we know the film version opens with "To The Airport (Patch 2)".    (We know this, because material from this is tracked into the earlier "Teddy Is Kidnapped" sequence, so the Patch 2 name appears there in the cue list).

 

If you compare the end credits tracked bit to the opening minute or so of the film version of To The Airport, there are a lot of similiarties:  in the end credits version, about 8 seconds of racing strings leads into Helena's theme, which gives way to a sort of wondrous moment, before snares lead us to Voller's theme.  In the scene itself, there's different racing strings that give way to a different performance of Helena's theme, which leads to timpani instead of snares, and then non-thematic passage instead of Voller's theme.  But it has a similar vibe.

 

 

EDIT: Oh right, and GEMA indicated it was part of the end credits all along!

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I have to re-do my itunes files then 🙄

[Jay 37,372]

So I'm re-examing the OST album as I compare to the isolated score.

 

Am I nuts or are there 2 parts of the OST "Germany, 1944" track that are not in the film?

1. 0:00-0:06 (0:06) = Not in film?

2. 0:06-2:19 (2:13) ≈ iso score 6:25-8:52 (2:27) - Indy Driver

3. 2:19-2:33 (0:14) ≈ iso score 9:39-9:49 (0:10) - Indy Driver

4. 2:33-3:00 (0:27) ≈ iso score 12:13-12:42 (0:29) - It's A Fake

5. 3:00-3:22 (0:22) ≈ iso score 13:36-14:00 (0:24) - It's A Fake

6. 3:22-3:41 (0:19) ≈ iso score 17:11-17:40 (0:29) - Combat Train-ing

7. 3:41-3:48 (0:07) = Not in film?

8. 3:48-end (0:55) ≈ iso score 20:48-21:46 (0:58) - Jump

Can anyone identify the two parts I could not?

[Jay 37,372]

OK I've gone through the entire film and identified everything now, and even noted down timestamps that include miliseconds you can use to identify everything

 

	Start	End	Length	Cue
1	00:00:45.546	00:03:30.749	2:45	American Spy
2	00:03:36.297	00:03:55.440	0:19	American Spy {Continued}
3	00:03:58.209	00:04:25.446	0:27	Bombs Away!
4	00:04:25.446	00:05:20.312	0:55	Bombs Away! {Continued}
5	00:05:42.062	00:08:54.394	3:12	Indy Driver
6	00:09:38.019	00:09:49.147	0:11	Indy Driver {Continued}
7	00:09:49.147	00:13:58.975	4:10	It's A Fake
8	00:13:58.975	00:16:20.899	2:22	Indy Rescues Baz
9	00:16:48.100	00:19:35.706	2:48	Combat Train-ing
10	00:19:35.706	00:21:47.866	2:12	Jump
11	00:27:00.048	00:27:39.320	0:39	[TRACKED] Helena's Tutorial
12	00:28:15.133	00:30:07.211	1:52	[TRACKED] Voller's Interview
13	00:30:07.211	00:30:28.528	0:21	[WILD] Nazis
14	00:32:38.048	00:33:09.324	0:31	I'm Not Selling This, Am I?
15	00:33:09.324	00:37:55.386	4:46	The Archives
16	00:37:55.386	00:40:45.800	2:50	Helena Runs
17	00:43:02.027	00:45:31.271	2:29	Pulse Of The City
18	00:46:35.168	00:48:17.750	1:43	Voller's Interview
19	00:48:17.750	00:49:11.480	0:54	Sallah To The Rescue
20	00:50:36.642	00:52:03.599	1:27	Departures
21	00:52:40.641	00:53:44.616	1:04	It Must Be Destroyed
22	00:53:44.616	00:54:45.183	1:01	To Morocco Again
23	00:56:52.260	00:58:20.268	1:28	Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt
24	00:58:20.268	00:58:44.861	0:25	Doing Helena's Bidding
25	00:58:44.861	01:00:09.494	1:25	Rossini's Menu
26	01:00:26.661	01:01:31.711	1:05	Rahim Arrives
27	01:01:31.711	01:02:04.321	0:33	You Don't Need Me?
28	01:02:04.321	01:03:49.838	1:46	Streets Of Morocco
29	01:03:54.519	01:08:16.575	4:22	Tuk Tuk Chase
30	01:09:37.906	01:10:59.945	1:22	Airplane Mutiny
31	01:13:12.050	01:14:39.576	1:28	To Athens
32	01:15:11.235	01:16:22.196	1:11	Sunken Ship
33	01:19:26.994	01:20:18.192	0:51	Indy's Regret
34	01:21:39.081	01:22:46.543	1:07	Eels
35	01:22:46.543	01:23:28.220	0:42	[TRACKED] Centipedes
36	01:23:39.751	01:28:37.461	4:58	Water Ballet
37	01:29:24.968	01:30:36.524	1:12	Polybius Cipher
38	01:30:36.524	01:33:25.295	2:49	Helena's Tutorial
39	01:33:25.295	01:34:07.331	0:42	Escaping the Boat
40	01:34:49.198	01:36:19.348	1:30	Melting Wax
41	01:36:19.348	01:36:35.260	0:16	[TRACKED] Archimedes' Tomb
42	01:36:35.260	01:37:18.562	0:43	Melting Wax {Continued}
43	01:39:03.444	01:39:40.383	0:37	Teddy Is Kidnapped
44	01:39:40.383	01:39:54.756	0:14	[TRACKED] To The Airport
45	01:39:54.756	01:40:19.523	0:25	Teddy Is Kidnapped {Continued}
46	01:40:19.523	01:40:53.349	0:34	[WILD] Helena In Action
47	01:40:53.349	01:41:55.358	1:02	Teddy Is Kidnapped {Continued}
48	01:42:17.904	01:43:07.480	0:50	The Crescent
49	01:43:18.681	01:44:27.352	1:09	The Crescent {Continued}
50	01:45:02.178	01:45:14.014	0:12	[TRACKED] Eels
51	01:45:14.014	01:48:18.369	3:04	Centipedes
52	01:48:18.369	01:49:44.231	1:26	Handcuffed
53	01:49:50.236	01:52:27.339	2:37	Archimedes' Tomb
54	01:52:27.339	01:55:07.686	2:40	Confrontation At The Tomb
55	01:55:07.686	01:56:37.322	1:30	To The Airport
56	01:56:37.322	01:58:19.925	1:43	To The Airport Part 2
57	01:58:19.925	02:02:23.931	4:04	Airport Nazis
58	02:02:23.931	02:02:59.486	0:36	[TRACKED] Water Ballet
59	02:03:08.144	02:04:38.263	1:30	[TRACKED] Melting Wax,Centipedes,Water Ballet,Helena's Tutorial
60	02:04:38.263	02:05:17.953	0:40	Through The Portal
61	02:05:32.378	02:06:11.570	0:39	[TRACKED] Ancient Syracuse,Water Ballet
62	02:06:11.570	02:06:42.033	0:30	Planes In Trouble
63	02:06:42.033	02:09:45.853	3:04	Ancient Syracuse
64	02:10:07.981	02:10:22.183	0:14	Ancient Syracuse {Continued}
65	02:10:22.183	02:10:57.526	0:35	[TRACKED] Through The Portal,Ancient Syracuse,Confrontation At The Tomb
66	02:10:57.526	02:11:55.492	0:58	Ancient Syracuse {Continued}
67	02:11:55.492	02:17:40.520	5:45	Centuries Join Hands
68	02:19:23.330	02:20:15.427	0:52	For Who... Whom?
69	02:21:57.172	02:23:23.181	1:26	Finale
70	02:23:23.181	02:25:19.382	1:56	Raiders March
71	02:25:19.382	02:28:44.005	3:25	Helena's Theme
72	02:28:44.005	02:29:18.309	0:34	[WILD] Nazis
73	02:29:18.309	02:30:06.144	0:48	End Credit Part 3
74	02:30:06.144	02:30:55.348	0:49	[TRACKED] To The Airport
75	02:30:55.348	02:34:19.563	3:24	End Credit Part 3 {Continued}

 

Updated the Google Doc as well

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gLWlWGQDU2sjQtm83qAu9pgDTlEMSH7smeWw5zZwqHs/

 

And if anybody uses command line ffmpeg this will split the iso score into correctly named tracks for you

 

Spoiler

.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:00:45.546 -to 00:03:30.749 "01 American Spy.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:03:36.297 -to 00:03:55.440 "02 American Spy {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:03:58.209 -to 00:04:25.446 "03 Bombs Away!.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:04:25.446 -to 00:05:20.312 "04 Bombs Away! {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:05:42.062 -to 00:08:54.394 "05 Indy Driver.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:09:38.019 -to 00:09:49.147 "06 Indy Driver {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:09:49.147 -to 00:13:58.975 "07 It's A Fake.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:13:58.975 -to 00:16:20.899 "08 Indy Rescues Baz.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:16:48.100 -to 00:19:35.706 "09 Combat Train-ing.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:19:35.706 -to 00:21:47.866 "10 Jump.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:27:00.048 -to 00:27:39.320 "11 [TRACKED] Helena's Tutorial.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:28:15.133 -to 00:30:07.211 "12 [TRACKED] Voller's Interview.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:30:07.211 -to 00:30:28.528 "13 [WILD] Nazis.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:32:38.048 -to 00:33:09.324 "14 I'm Not Selling This, Am I.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:33:09.324 -to 00:37:55.386 "15 The Archives.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:37:55.386 -to 00:40:45.800 "16 Helena Runs.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:43:02.027 -to 00:45:31.271 "17 Pulse of the City.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:46:35.168 -to 00:48:17.750 "18 Voller's Interview.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:48:17.750 -to 00:49:11.480 "19 Sallah to the Rescue.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:50:36.642 -to 00:52:03.599 "20 Departures.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:52:40.641 -to 00:53:44.616 "21 It Must Be Destroyed.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:53:44.616 -to 00:54:45.183 "22 To Morocco Again.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:56:52.260 -to 00:58:20.268 "23 Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:58:20.268 -to 00:58:44.861 "24 Doing Helena's Bidding.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 00:58:44.861 -to 01:00:09.494 "25 Rossini's Menu.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:00:26.661 -to 01:01:31.711 "26 Rahim Arrives.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:01:31.711 -to 01:02:04.321 "27 You Don't Need Me.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:02:04.321 -to 01:03:49.838 "28 Streets of Morocco.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:03:54.519 -to 01:08:16.575 "29 Tuk Tuk Chase.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:09:37.906 -to 01:10:59.945 "30 Airplane Mutiny.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:13:12.050 -to 01:14:39.576 "31 To Athens.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:15:11.235 -to 01:16:22.196 "32 Sunken Ship.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:19:26.994 -to 01:20:18.192 "33 Indy's Regret.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:21:39.081 -to 01:22:46.543 "34 Eels.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:22:46.543 -to 01:23:28.220 "35 [TRACKED] Centipedes.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:23:39.751 -to 01:28:37.461 "36 Water Ballet.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:29:24.968 -to 01:30:36.524 "37 Polybius Cipher.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:30:36.524 -to 01:33:25.295 "38 Helena's Tutorial.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:33:25.295 -to 01:34:07.331 "39 Escaping the Boat.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:34:49.198 -to 01:36:19.348 "40 Melting Wax.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:36:19.348 -to 01:36:35.260 "41 [TRACKED] Archimedes' Tomb.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:36:35.260 -to 01:37:18.562 "42 Melting Wax {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:39:03.444 -to 01:39:40.383 "43 Teddy Is Kidnapped.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:39:40.383 -to 01:39:54.756 "44 [TRACKED] To The Airport.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:39:54.756 -to 01:40:19.523 "45 Teddy Is Kidnapped {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:40:19.523 -to 01:40:53.349 "46 [WILD] Helena In Action.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:40:53.349 -to 01:41:55.358 "47 Teddy Is Kidnapped {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:42:17.904 -to 01:43:07.480 "48 The Crescent.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:43:18.681 -to 01:44:27.352 "49 The Crescent {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:45:02.178 -to 01:45:14.014 "50 [TRACKED] Eels.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:45:14.014 -to 01:48:18.369 "51 Centipedes.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:48:18.369 -to 01:49:44.231 "52 Handcuffed.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:49:50.236 -to 01:52:27.339 "53 Archimedes' Tomb.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:52:27.339 -to 01:55:05.340 "54 Confrontation At The Tomb.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:55:05.340 -to 01:56:37.322 "55 To the Airport.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:56:37.322 -to 01:58:19.925 "56 To the Airport Part 2.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 01:58:19.925 -to 02:02:23.931 "57 Airport Nazis.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:02:23.931 -to 02:02:59.486 "58 [TRACKED] Water Ballet.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:03:08.144 -to 02:04:38.263 "59 [TRACKED] Melting Wax,Centipedes,Water Ballet,Helena's Tutorial.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:04:38.263 -to 02:05:17.953 "60 Through The Portal.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:05:32.378 -to 02:06:11.570 "61 [TRACKED] Ancient Syracuse,Water Ballet.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:06:11.570 -to 02:06:42.033 "62 Planes In Trouble.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:06:42.033 -to 02:09:45.853 "63 Ancient Syracuse.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:10:07.981 -to 02:10:22.183 "64 Ancient Syracuse {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:10:22.183 -to 02:10:57.526 "65 [TRACKED] Through The Portal,Ancient Syracuse,Confrontation At The Tomb.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:10:57.526 -to 02:11:55.492 "66 Ancient Syracuse {Continued}.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:11:55.492 -to 02:17:40.520 "67 Centuries Join Hands.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:19:23.330 -to 02:20:15.427 "68 For Who... Whom.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:21:57.172 -to 02:23:23.181 "69 Finale.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:23:23.181 -to 02:25:19.382 "70 Raiders March.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:25:19.382 -to 02:28:44.005 "71 Helena's Theme.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:28:44.005 -to 02:29:18.309 "72 [WILD] Nazis.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:29:18.309 -to 02:30:06.144 "73 End Credit Part 3.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:30:06.144 -to 02:30:55.348 "74 [TRACKED] To The Airport.flac"
.\ffmpeg -i Indy5.wav -ss 02:30:55.348 -to 02:34:19.563 "75 End Credit Part 3 {Continued}.flac"

 

[Jay 37,372]

So that's EIGHT MINUTES of tracked music in the final cut of the film.  Much more than anyone realized, I think.

 

I'm mostly curious about how Williams originally scored the Through The Portal / Planes In Trouble sequence, and why Mangold replaced so much of it with tracked music instead of inserts, revisions, or patches like everywhere else.

[KittBash 282]

It would, as usual, be very interesting to see the original cue sheets/ session recordings to figure out what was originally written/recorded for this one!?

 

Thanks @Jay for taking all this time to figure this out... I've been waiting to try an edit from the 5.1 channel rip I got off the blu ray but haven't had the time to figure all this out... You sir as usual are coming to the rescue! Now to Adobe Audition to try some of this! 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

There are some small bits of tracking to create false endings too. I’m reasonably confident the final note of Helena Runs is the end of Battle of Syracuse cut short. The end of Departures is material from Voller’s interview looped. I’m trying to think if I noticed any others.

[Jay 37,372]

Oh yes, I noticed many fake endings as well, some more obvious than others.  And there are also some mixing differences sometimes with tracked appearances compared to main appearances, like the tracked "Water Ballet" and "Helena's Tutorial" just before "Through The Portal" has a repeating drum loop seemingly artificially created by looping one drum performance for the duration of the tracked bit.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Eight minutes sounds pretty reasonable for a movie as complicated as this?

 

Seems worse perhaps because it's all over the place though.

[crumbs 14,318]

Eight minutes of tracking is relatively restrained in a post-TROS world.

[enderdrag64 624]

13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Eight minutes of tracking is relatively restrained in a post-TROS world.

I don't have exact numbers off hand but it might even be less than ROTJ and the three prequels...

[Holko 9,529]

Very likely less than AotC and RotS, those had entire unscored sequences later "scored" with tracked music. But RotJ? There's a few instances but surely nowhere near 8 minutes? Unless you count things like chopping up the rancor and sail barge fights.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I respect a filmmaker who manages to finish their film with minimal or no tracking but I think it represents a far too rosy-tinted view of the process. Probably also a symptom of over-editing at the last minute and just generally fiddling around when it doesn't need it.

 

This score sounds like an extreme example though, with entire sequences created from tracked or re-recorded (so effectively tracked) music.

[Faleel 5,359]

11 hours ago, Holko said:

Very likely less than AotC and RotS, those had entire unscored sequences later "scored" with tracked music. But RotJ? There's a few instances but surely nowhere near 8 minutes? Unless you count things like chopping up the rancor and sail barge fights.

Well you do have:

 

The Droids are Captured

Han Solo Returns

Emperor Arrives

Death of Yoda

Brother and Sister

Father and Son

Emperor Provokes Luke

Leia is Wounded

Through the Flames...

[Holko 9,529]

Okay but some of those are a few seconds long

[Faleel 5,359]

Just now, Holko said:

Okay but some of those are a few seconds long

 

True 🤷‍♂️

[Pieter Boelen 740]

22 hours ago, crumbs said:

Eight minutes of tracking is relatively restrained in a post-TROS world.

A post-TRoS world, eh?

Now that DOES sound apocalyptic!! 

[crumbs 14,318]

1 hour ago, Pieter Boelen said:

A post-TRoS world, eh?

Now that DOES sound apocalyptic!! 

 

Well a global pandemic did sweep the globe mere weeks after TROS was released.

 

Coincidence? I'll let you decide...

[Jay 37,372]

Another thing I noticed:

 

There's two VERY similar arrangements of Indy's theme near each other in the prologue sequence.

The first starts about 16 seconds into Indy Rescues Baz (so runs from 0:14:15.5-0:14:30.4).  The second is about 77 seconds into Jump (so runs from 0:20:50.7-0:21:07.2)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

I mean, they are basically identical.  And I think they are an existing arrangement from one of the prior Indy scores, but it isn't coming to me exactly where from.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's tracked from Jump into Indy Rescues Baz, I think they just copied some temp track that was the same in both spots and then never changed one of them.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Its the music from Raiders after the submarine arrives to the island (where the ritual takes place) when indy infiltrates the base and fights a soldier and steals his uniform.

[Jay 37,372]

That's it!

 

 

[Brando 1,864]

Wait so we think they tracked some music straight from Raiders or they re-recorded it?

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

It’s re-recorded 100%, the bassoons sound different compared to the DoD version.

[Jay 37,372]

I'm not sure what part of what post led you to think that old recordings appeared somewhere

 

All the score heard in the Dial of Destiny film is recorded for it; no recordings from any prior movies are dropped in anywhere

[Brando 1,864]

I misread your post at the very end. 

[Jay 37,372]

Ah that makes sense.  Yeah I meant that they used the same old sheet music in those two places (as a starting point) to match the temp track

 

Just found it funny that nobody thought to change one of them, to not have the same music twice in the film 5 minutes apart

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Its weird, yes, it feels tracked that way.

 

i also think they use the same belly of the steel beast-in the tank segment twice too

[Jay 37,372]

Yes they use the start of Belly (10M2 All Tanked Up) twice, but at least the second time it transitions to some On The Tank.

[Archive Collection 214]

On 22/01/2024 at 3:12 PM, Jay said:

Updated the Google Doc as well

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gLWlWGQDU2sjQtm83qAu9pgDTlEMSH7smeWw5zZwqHs/

 

Amazing work, as always.

 

One thing to add - I believe we have the cue title for "Helena’s Theme (For Violin And Orchestra)". It's "Helena's Theme (For Anne Sophie Mutter)", as seen at the start of this music video!

 

 

[Jay 37,372]

Oh great, thank you!

[JohnnyD 1,223]

I’m curious. For Who…Whom is pitch-shifted when comparing the soundtrack album and the film. Which version is as-recorded and therefore is the correct pitch? If it is the film that is correct, why is the pitch different on the album?

[Jay 37,372]

The film is correct as recorded.  The album version is pitch-shifted to make it sound better when cross-faded with the Finale cue.

 

You can see this visualized  here.

[JohnnyD 1,223]

That’s interesting.

[Archive Collection 214]

Another cue title/number revealed!

 

10M8 "Helena's Theme Rev"

 

Source: JKMS Instagram post.

[tranders65 65]

Okay, I’m late to the game paying actual focused attention to some of the isolated score. Just happened to check my streaming version today and see if it was showing up on there, which it now is, so started watching the prologue.  I know about the other cribbing from previous Indy scores and some Minority Report and Star Wars lifts that found their way into the score, but hadn’t noticed some of 1941 in there until today, lol. Did anyone else catch that or did I miss it on another page? In the “It’s A Fake” cue from around ::33-1:17. Compare it to Sub Commander from around :11-1:06 on the expanded 1941 LalaLand release. 😂 Sorry if anyone else already caught that and I missed it. 

[Jay 37,372]

Yes, people mentioned hearing this 1941 lift when the film was in theaters. 

 

Surprisingly, there is no organized list of all these little repurposed bits yet, so specific timestamps for anything like this are welcome!