Ecoutez le cinéma John Williams release - The Legend of John Williams 20CD box set

[Damien F 1,742]

Has there ever been anything more specific about why JW doesn't want a release of The Sugarland Express. Aside from the music itself, the score obviously has a lot of historical significance as the first score for Spielberg. Is it simply the case that JW dislikes the music he wrote for the score.

[Bespin 8,483]

23 minutes ago, Damien F said:

Has there ever been anything more specific about why JW doesn't want a release of The Sugarland Express. Aside from the music itself, the score obviously has a lot of historical significance as the first score for Spielberg. Is it simply the case that JW dislikes the music he wrote for the score.

 

I think JW just found the score of Sugarland Express a bit insufficient, as if he knew that he underperformed on that one and that perhaps he received more help from some uncredited collaborator(s) (perhaps Toots Thielemans himself?) in the writing, more than he would acknowledge. Perhaps he made compromises he isn't proud of... Clearly, he's still not ready to face the questions that such a reissue would provoke. Anyway, that's my two cents...

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I can imagine that such a box is a contractual nightmare. Still they should have put Adventures of Han on the Ron Howard disk with Far and Away. 

[Bespin 8,483]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I can imagine that such a box is a contractual nightmare. Still they should have put Adventures of Han on the Ron Howard disk with Far and Away. 

 

Clearly, the scores of the last 20 years are underrepresented on that boxset. Nothing that a hypothetical volume 2 couldn't fix!

[Andy 4,138]

1 hour ago, Damien F said:

Has there ever been anything more specific about why JW doesn't want a release of The Sugarland Express.

The guy who wrote 12 Days of Christmas keeps threatening to sue. 

[Damien F 1,742]

22 minutes ago, Andy said:

The guy who wrote 12 Days of Christmas keeps threatening to sue. 

 

Isn't that Fitzwilly?

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

On 20/10/2023 at 10:45 PM, Ricard said:

So here are the details that can be guessed from CD 20 so far (all additions/corrections are welcome!)

 

CD 20 - Chansons, Reprises et Nouvelles Lectures

 

01. A Million Bucks from Checkmate
Conducted by Andre Previn, from ‘Andre Previn Plays the Music of Young Hollywood Composers’
02. Make Me Rainbows from Fitzwilly
Performed by Ella Fitzgerald ?
03. Theme from Catch Me If You Can
04. Dream Away from The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing
Performed by Frank Sinatra, from ‘Ol’ Blue Eyes Is Back’
05. Fascinating Rhythm
Conducted by John Williams, from ‘Rhythm in Motion’
06. The Same Hello, the Same Goodbye
Performed by Barbra Streisand, from ‘What Matters Most – Barbra Streisand Sings the Lyrics of Alan and Marilyn Bergman’
07. A Big Beautiful Ball from Not With My Wife, You Don’t
From ‘Not With My Wife, You Don’t Vol. 2’
08. A Place On My Own (Heidi’s Theme) from Heidi
09. Daddy’s Gone A-Hunting from Daddy’s Gone A-Hunting
Performed by Lyn Roman, original film recording
10. Come Tuesday
11. Theme from The Eiger Sanction
12. Remembering Carolyn from Presumed Innocent
Performed by Simone Pedroni, from ‘John Williams: Themes and Transcriptions for Piano’
13. Nice To Be Around from Cinderella Liberty
Performed by Johnny Mathis, from ‘When Will I See You Again’
14. A Powdered Wig
Conducted by Henry Mancini, from ‘Combo!’
15. Love’s The Only Game In Town from Pete ‘N’ Tillie
Performed by Walter Matthau, original film recording
16. The Long Goodbye
Performed by Lou Donaldson, from ‘Sophisticated Lou’
17. Theme from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
18. Make Me Rainbows from Fitzwilly
Performed by Ella Fitzgerald ?
19. If We Were In Love from Yes, Giorgio
Performed by Luciano Pavarotti, from the Original Soundtrack Album

 

"The Eiger Sanction" theme is likely to be the one by Kyle Eastwood quintet (released on his "Cinematic" album from 2019). 

[Holko 9,526]

25 minutes ago, Miguel Andrade said:

"The Eiger Sanction" theme is likely to be the one by Kyle Eastwood quintet (released on his "Cinematic" album from 2019).

Or the newer 2023 one on Eastwood Symphonic

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Or the newer 2023 one on Eastwood Symphonic

Yes, but being a recent release, I wonder if they would go with that one.

[Holko 9,526]

Ah of course, didn't think about that.

[igger6 894]

5 hours ago, Andy said:

The guy who wrote 12 Days of Christmas keeps threatening to sue. 

 

Mind blown!!!

[Foxfan 128]

On 26/10/2023 at 8:40 AM, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'd gladly buy JW money.

The way inflation is going maybe Americans can petition and have his face put on a new $200 bill. Or given his prominence as America's national composer, get minted on the $1 coin like Austria has done with Mozart on the Euro coin.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,537]

6 hours ago, Andy said:

The guy who wrote 12 Days of Christmas keeps threatening to sue. 

 

Geez Louise, it's "My Sweet Lord" all over again.

[That_Bloke 115]

19 hours ago, Damien F said:

Has there ever been anything more specific about why JW doesn't want a release of The Sugarland Express. Aside from the music itself, the score obviously has a lot of historical significance as the first score for Spielberg. Is it simply the case that JW dislikes the music he wrote for the score.

 

My comments are based in having seen the film. As heard in the film the score is simple and sparse, with a low-key hillbilly vibe. It builds into something stronger by film end. Lots of brushes on snares and jaw harp at the start. 

 

Although I thought the music suited the film perfectly, the simplicity and sparse spotting can make the music come across as "quick and cheap", as though Williams didn't care too much for the film.

 

As much as I'd like to have a recording of the score for history's sake, I feel SE to be the weakest of all the JW-SS scores. It doesn't match up to his other Americana scores around that time imo.

 

Maybe JW feels it just wasn't his best effort, despite it adequately servicing the film? 

[Thor 7,508]

Yes, I think that's pretty much it. He likes the harmonica-driven main theme enough to include it on albums and play it in concerts, but the "shuffling percussion" stuff perhaps not so much. My best guess.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The main theme is really catchy and fun - I've got it from one of those compilations. However, if the rest of the score is more sparse, along the lines of Morricone or perhaps Breakdown, I can see how Williams might see it as unusual for him and maybe too much on the experimental side to want it to be heard widely.

[Damien F 1,742]

If Spielberg had been disappointed or unimpressed with his score for Sugerland, he probably would have hired a different composer for Jaws. Therefore no 50 year Williams / Spielberg collaboration and also no Williams involvement with Star Wars. His career would have been totally different.

 

In retrospect, Spielberg's satisfaction with the Sugerland score was a crucial moment in JW's life.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I see it a little different - given that SS is doing his first theatrical film, he's not the experienced, veteran director he now is. Nowadays he might be giving an opportunity to a new composer and seeing if they 'impress' him, but for his first movie, which doesn't need that much score and not overly prominent, I find it hard to believe he'd be as judgemental as you suggest. 

 

Might just be my inherent perspective, but I'd see that scenario not as him being blown away by some low key Americana, but Williams having done a good job that the film needed, enjoying working with him, and Williams not fucking it up, and therefore being the obvious collaborator for his next film.

 

Of course the chain of events that started is undeniable so it's historically significant in that respect, but more for beginning the collaboration, and not because (I suspect) the score itself is anything particularly to write home about.

[Damien F 1,742]

16 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I see it a little different - given that SS is doing his first theatrical film, he's not the experienced, veteran director he now is. Nowadays he might be giving an opportunity to a new composer and seeing if they 'impress' him, but for his first movie, which doesn't need that much score and not overly prominent, I find it hard to believe he'd be as judgemental as you suggest. 

 

Might just be my inherent perspective, but I'd see that scenario not as him being blown away by some low key Americana, but Williams having done a good job that the film needed, enjoying working with him, and Williams not fucking it up, and therefore being the obvious collaborator for his next film.

 

Of course the chain of events that started is undeniable so it's historically significant in that respect, but more for beginning the collaboration, and not because (I suspect) the score itself is anything particularly to write home about.

 

Yes, I totally get that point of view. I was just suggesting that if Spielberg had finished Sugarland with any significant negative experience of the score for any reason, JW's career would have been very different.

[ciarlese 251]

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

The main theme is really catchy and fun - I've got it from one of those compilations. However, if the rest of the score is more sparse, along the lines of Morricone or perhaps Breakdown, I can see how Williams might see it as unusual for him and maybe too much on the experimental side to want it to be heard widely.

That's an interest point of view, however I believe the release of the Images expansions can be even more experimental and unusual in my mind, so I am not sure this theory is actually correct.

[Andy 4,138]

I was half joking when I made the 12 Days of Christmas reference, but I truly believe that is the reason.  When you compare the original composition to the concert version of Sugarland, it is a major revision.  He has no problem playing that in concert, probably because of the revision.  Christmas tune or not, Williams is telling us why he didn't like the original version with the concert version.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

55 minutes ago, ciarlese said:

That's an interest point of view, however I believe the release of the Images expansions can be even more experimental and unusual in my mind, so I am not sure this theory is actually correct.

 

I listened to a bit of both on YT and Images struck me as experimental but also using more sounds and some orchestra; certainly more variety.

 

Sugarland just seemed to be some percussion and very stripped back Americana - pleasant, and perhaps early indications of his sound, but overall nothing that remarkable.

 

I also had no idea what was meant by the 12 Days... reference and now I realise. He's mostly copied it.

[JW collector 47]

About  "SUGARLAND.... " 

 

I  remember  Ian Freer  ( from EMPIRE film magazine ) in his book  " the complete Spielberg"   wrote something like Spielberg wanted a sound he heard  in "Rievers "   and "the cowboys" .....  Symphonic  ,  big , sweeping....

 

Instead Williams - after seeing the film - wanted to go another way.... small scale ,  some times tender ...  something like that.  (Maybe  Missouri Breaks "style ").

 

Yes we have guitar(s), the great Toots Tielemans , and percussion.... strings also.... 

in the finale , goes from small town in sugarland to mexican border   - that  always give me goosebumbs -    the music   starts  when the police starts firing at the hijacked police car in the small town -  we   hear the orchestra comes in.... dramatic .... stirring .....  oh  my  ....

 

 

 

Regarding the theme:

Like the film version/ main title  of the theme more than the slow concert version Williams wrote / arranged.

 

Also think it is catchy 

 

 

 

 

[Andy 4,138]

I too actually prefer the film version over the revised concert version.  It’s got more authentic grungy 70s vibe whereas the concert version is trying hard to be vampy and soulful.  

[Holko 9,526]

Yeah, it's lacking that twangy headbanging groove. I'd buy the original in a heartbeat.

[JW collector 47]

About   the climatic finish i "SUGARLAND EXPRESS  "

 

so much going on in short time...

 

....Clovis ( Lou-jeans husband ) deadly hit by bullits,...... Lou-Jean screaming on the backseat of the stole Police car......  and the the music....

 

 

 

THE BATON  ....

 

....had this to say  about the movie  and score     -  go to about    16:10  .... music from the finale /climax 

 

 

Episode 37 - The Sugarland Express | The Baton: A John Williams Musical Journey (podbean.com)

 

 

 

 

[Bespin 8,483]

New post on Écoutez le Cinéma: an excerpt from an interview with Jean-Jacques Annaud discussing his collaboration with John Williams on 'Seven Years in Tibet.'

 

https://www.facebook.com/EcoutezLeCinema/videos/1504246200308303/

 

Okay, for those who don't understand French, here is the translation: Annaud reveals that working with John Williams was challenging; it was complicated, and he contemplated firing him at least seven times during the process.

[Tom 4,661]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

New post on Écoutez le Cinéma: an excerpt from an interview with Jean-Jacques Annaud discussing his collaboration with John Williams on 'Seven Years in Tibet.'

 

https://www.facebook.com/EcoutezLeCinema/videos/1504246200308303/

 

Okay, for those who don't understand French, here is the translation: Annaud reveals that working with John Williams was challenging; it was complicated, and he contemplated firing him at least seven times during the process.

The dude should have just stuck to the underwater stuff.  

[Bespin 8,483]

4 minutes ago, Tom said:

The dude should have just stuck to the underwater stuff.  

 

You're absolutely right! John Williams definitely should have hung up his composer's hat after composing the score for Jaws.

[Andy 4,138]

4 hours ago, Bespin said:

Jean-Jacques Annaud discussing his collaboration with John Williams on 'Seven Years in Tibet.'

 

he contemplated firing him at least seven times during the process.

 

One firing for each year in Tibet.  Cool Marketing gimmick. 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,792]

6 hours ago, Bespin said:

Okay, for those who don't understand French, here is the translation: Annaud reveals that working with John Williams was challenging; it was complicated, and he contemplated firing him at least seven times during the process.

Luckily I speak French, and did not fall for @Bespin's shenanigans. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,537]

Well! Another rooster in the henhouse.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

The "Catch Me If You Can" track on disc 20 is this one, performed by Jean-Michel Bernard:

 

[Once 605]

On 10/11/2023 at 1:24 PM, Bespin said:

Okay, for those who don't understand French, here is the translation: Annaud reveals that working with John Williams was challenging; it was complicated, and he contemplated firing him at least seven times during the process.

Hahaha… okay, so what did he really say?

[Bespin 8,483]

1 hour ago, Once said:

Hahaha… okay, so what did he really say?

 

@Once Ah, so someone is genuinely interested to know! Hehe.

 

"I was very pleased to work with a man who dazzled me with his immense knowledge of classical music. Consequently, I know that I am working with people who understand orchestration, who know what emotion a particular instrument will bring. So, that's a huge comfort. I arrived in Boston and went straight to a studio where John was with his assistant on the piano. He had been very gracious about the film he had seen the night before, without any comment from me, I let him discover it. And I had told him: watch the film, then we'll talk later. And as soon as I arrived, he said, you know, he's a man of extreme courtesy, he said: do you mind if I play some themes on the piano for you. And he sat at the piano, and right away, I liked the theme, which is very rare. In any case, what I feel, because the score is not evocative of Tibet, it's the character played by Brad Pitt's perspective on Tibet. It's ultimately completely Western music, and he agreed. I've always had a great passion for the cello because I believe it is the range of the human voice. And so, there is a deeper resonance, to speak of the soul of a character. The cello seems very appropriate when possible."  - Jean-Jacques Annaud, about working with John Williams on Seven Years in Tibet

 

 

[Bespin 8,483]

A new pic of Stéphane Lerouge with John Williams, as posted by Tim Burden on X.

 

 

 

[JTN 2,030]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:24 PM, Bespin said:

 

@Once Ah, so someone is genuinely interested to know! Hehe.

 

"I was very pleased to work with a man who dazzled me with his immense knowledge of classical music. Consequently, I know that I am working with people who understand orchestration, who know what emotion a particular instrument will bring. So, that's a huge comfort. I arrived in Boston and went straight to a studio where John was with his assistant on the piano. He had been very gracious about the film he had seen the night before, without any comment from me, I let him discover it. And I had told him: watch the film, then we'll talk later. And as soon as I arrived, he said, you know, he's a man of extreme courtesy, he said: do you mind if I play some themes on the piano for you. And he sat at the piano, and right away, I liked the theme, which is very rare. In any case, what I feel, because the score is not evocative of Tibet, it's the character played by Brad Pitt's perspective on Tibet. It's ultimately completely Western music, and he agreed. I've always had a great passion for the cello because I believe it is the range of the human voice. And so, there is a deeper resonance, to speak of the soul of a character. The cello seems very appropriate when possible."  - Jean-Jacques Annaud, about working with John Williams on Seven Years in Tibet

 

 

He’s such a liar.

[BB-8 3,479]

3 hours ago, JTW said:

He’s such a liar.

You mean Annaud was never in Boston?

[JTN 2,030]

16 hours ago, BB-8 said:

You mean Annaud was never in Boston?

No, I mean *I was being ironic*. 

[Bespin 8,483]

Will you be able to identify these ten cues, included in the box set The Legend of John Williams?

 

https://www.facebook.com/EcoutezLeCinema/videos/1488648231678856/

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,537]

It's quite hard. I got:

THE REIVERS (I think)

THE COWBOYS (I think)

THE EIGER SANCTION

SLEEPERS 

FITZWILLY (I think)

ANGELA'S ASHES (I think)

THE MISSOURI BREAKS 

 

 

[pete 907]

2-4, The River, Eigar Sanction, and Angela's Ashes. Oops, have to work now!

Update: Sleepers Football game is near the end.

And JFK Garrrison Family Theme

 

The last one has me stumped

[ciarlese 251]

20 hours ago, Bespin said:

Will you be able to identify these ten cues, included in the box set The Legend of John Williams?

 

https://www.facebook.com/EcoutezLeCinema/videos/1488648231678856/

 

 

I am ordering this box only if this track is included 😁

[pete 907]

Oh Seven Years in Tibet - Regaining a son. - before the football game. That almost drove me crazy trying to place it 

[JTN 2,030]

21 hours ago, Bespin said:

Will you be able to identify these ten cues, included in the box set The Legend of John Williams?

 

https://www.facebook.com/EcoutezLeCinema/videos/1488648231678856/

 

No.

[Thor 7,508]

1. "A Million Bucks"

2. THE RIVER

3. THE EIGER SANCTION

4. ANGELA'S ASHES

5. FITZWILLY

6. JFK

7. THE MISSOURI BREAKS

8. SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET

9. SLEEPERS

10. NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T

 

Easy peasy.

[JTN 2,030]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

1. "A Million Bucks"

2. THE RIVER

3. THE EIGER SANCTION

4. ANGELA'S ASHES

5. FITZWILLY

6. JFK

7. THE MISSOURI BREAKS

8. SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET

9. SLEEPERS

10. NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T

 

Easy peasy.

I'm so in love with you right now.  

[BB-8 3,479]

Is it taken form the 7YIT OST or rather from Elegy?

[Thor 7,508]

20 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Is it taken form the 7YIT OST or rather from Elegy?

 

Elegy.

[pete 907]

54 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Elegy.

Are you sure? I thought it was around 55 seconds into “Regaining a son”. Update:  Oh yeah you’re right. I was comparing the audio sample with the earlier rendition in the elegy in which the solo cello is quite prominent.  But the strings take that motive later around 3:45.  

 

And what’s “A Million Bucks” from?