Disney Emporium releases Indiana Jones: The Complete CD Collection (Expected ship date is March 27, 2024.) No new expansions - Includes the previous Concord Records programmes plus KotCS and DoD OSTs

[JTN 2,120]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

As Williams would say, "too many notes."  

Wasn't it Emperor Joseph II?

[Bayesian 1,366]

2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I still believe people here tend to overestimate the intent behind these releases.

 

The people in charge likely know nothing about film music. They probably never thought about how a film contains more music than the accompanying soundtrack album. Maybe they've heard of expanded releases, in which case they might think of the additional tracks as bonus tracks (like on a re-release of a pop/rock album with bonus tracks). If they even stop to consider that there might be even more music that hasn't yet been released, I doubt they conclude that there's a sizeable (and sadly *that's* debatable) community that is desperately waiting for that music to be released.

 

In short, they probably know and care about as much about film music as I do about cars or football, or even less.

 

"Complete" in that context makes sense - and in some others. The set is complete insofar as it contains every soundtrack from the series. No, it doesn't contain every second of music from the series - see above. "Complete" is a marketing term - c.f. the "complete recordings" of the LOTR scores, which certainly aren't the complete *recordings* (those would be hours and hours more, and most of them would be uninteresting). They're not calling them "expanded" - and even that could be argued for, because the first three *are* expanded compared to the OST albums.

 

This release is redundant. It's horribly overpriced. I don't believe it's a scam.

 

Ultimately, the problem is that these releases are handled by business people instead of artists/fans.

Business people know how to read, right? Like, how to read the exhortations from the passionate, money-spending collector crowd? Or they have staff who can tell them that there exists a passionate, money-spending crowd that would buy properly produced expanded albums, I assume? So why don't these people listen??

 

The specialty labels aren't charities. They aren't raking it in, but they've remained going concerns for years, during the CD format's lowest ebb. Disney should know they could make money from this endeavor-- indeed, they do know it, since they've got their Legacy Collection going. 

 

Money is money. Revenue is revenue. If I spend $50K on something and earn $65K in return, I've made money. That alone should make the endeavor worth undertaking. Whether I made that $15K flogging Mickey Mouse crap on the sidewalk or producing & releasing an archival-quality expanded score from America's and the world's favorite composer, it's still $15K to me. Why would I turn my back on it?

 

What the hell are these scores going to be worth in the future if the source tapes or reels or whatever are degraded beyond repair, or the people capable of doing the restoration and production are no longer around or have moved on to other things? Make your money now, Disney. Come back in 10 years with a reissue of a properly expanded box set and get folks to double-dip if you want; at least you'll have another product in your back catalog you can reissue.

 

What on earth is the downside to any of this, Disney??

[HanFiredFirst 43]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Has it occured to you that someone would want to buy it, but can't afford it? Not only rich people collect soundtracks, you know. 

But as has been pointed out (many, many times) - all the albums are available individually on CD and streaming (and DoD will likely have more copies pressed) so the box set is a nice to have, not essential. 

[Mr. Hooper 1,844]

It's gotten a little heated in here, but there's valid arguments on both sides. One of those "agree to disagree" situations.

 

I'm not losing hope though guys. Mike Matessino is our guy in the biz who knows what we want, and I have to believe he's slowly chipping away at trying to realize a new comprehensive Indy (and Star Wars) release, but we're not done waiting...

[HanFiredFirst 43]

3 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

Figures after I kinda ruin your logic.

Nope, just not interested in rehashing the same old argument every time, with someone who is just a bit offensive.

[JTN 2,120]

49 minutes ago, Holko said:

Same if you did. You can still buy them separately or stream them.

Damn it, I almost agreed with you for once, then you ruined it.

How does one buy DoD on CD if the individual set is sold out and the only chance is as part of this box set if they don't want to pay $5000 for the DoD CD on eBay? 

 

 

 

Fixed it.

7 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

(and DoD will unlikely have more copies pressed)

[Bellosh 3,442]

5 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

Nope, just not interested in rehashing the same old argument every time, with someone who is just a bit offensive.

 

I'm not offended but you believing that this set isn't pointless means one of two things....

 

You're okay if they expand in a couple/few years to double dip....

 

Or you're okay with them just doing the bare minimum and not releasing complete editions...which this is.  Especially since it's been 15 years.  Even the box art is trash and lazy.

[HanFiredFirst 43]

5 minutes ago, The Lost Folio said:

 

Is it though? Is it? Of course nobody's forced to buy anything, and few on this forum will, because it is an abusive price tag that's completely disconnected from the current market value of physical media. The Harry Potter 7-cd set is $105, and that's a labor of love from a specialty label, beautifully restored and packaged with detailed liner notes. $150 (+tax +shipping) for a 5-cd reissue of 15-year-old masterings is an insult. The choice is not with the buyer anymore when products are artificially priced way above value, and several hundred percent above inflation rates. It's offensive to the buyer who then has little choice but to pass. I certainly do not feel like I have a choice. I prefer to buy the John Mauceri 16-cd box that's coming out tomorrow for cheaper than that. Because I do not feel like Decca, unlike Disney, is laughing at me. 

But that is what choice ultimately is - all the tracks in the box set can be bought elsewhere, cheaper, if you wish - there's nobody forcing anyone to buy anything, and if people wish to boycott Disney then that's absolutely fine.  The LLL Harry Potter is gorgeous, I fully agree.

 

Good choice with the Mauceri though - a tremendously talented conductor, a fine educator and just a lovely man.

Just now, Bellosh said:

 

I'm not offended but you not believing that this set isn't pointless means one of two things....

 

You're okay if they expand in a couple/few years to double dip....

 

Or you're okay with them just doing the bare minimum...which this is.  Especially since it's been 15 years.  Even the box art is trash and lazy.

OK, final reply to you - this is getting silly.

 

If they expand them, it's not double dipping.

 

The box art is - I suspect - not final, but either way, it's what they have chosen to release - don't like it, don't buy it, buy the original concord box, or the stand alone CDs, or stream them, or buy the downloads. Lots of options for you.

[Bellosh 3,442]

Lmao how is NOT double dipping. You're either a troll or a super Disney fan.

[JTN 2,120]

12 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

But as has been pointed out (many, many times) - all the albums are available individually on CD and streaming (and DoD will likely have more copies pressed) so the box set is a nice to have, not essential.

That's not the point. Your argument is that of a rich snobbish person who thinks that if something is  overpriced people just don't buy it. As if they had a choice. Not everyone is rich, yet they love soundtracks and would love to collect them on CD, because they deserve to own their favorite soundtracks just as much as the rich. So please drop this condescending rich boy attitude, it's very rude. 

[HanFiredFirst 43]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

That's not the point. Your argument is that of a rich snobbish person who thinks that if something is  overpriced people just don't buy it. As if they had a choice. Not everyone are rich, yet they love soundtracks and would love to collect them on CD, because they deserve to own their favorite soundtracks just as much as the rich. So please drop this condescending rich boy attitude, it's very rude. 

Unnecessarily aggressive. If I can't afford something I don't buy it - nothing to do with a "rich boy attitude" - there are plenty of releases I pass on because they're too expensive.

[JTN 2,120]

8 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

If they expand them, it's not double dipping.

But they are not expanding them. It's the same program as the 2008 box set released by Concord. Without the fifth extra disc and plus the OSt of Dod. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,237]

7 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

Business people know how to read, right? Like, how to read the exhortations from the passionate, money-spending collector crowd? Or they have staff who can tell them that there exists a passionate, money-spending crowd that would buy properly produced expanded albums, I assume? So why don't these people listen??

 

Because unless those staff people have a particular concern for film music, they're probably mostly unaware of us. On a business scale, we don't matter - when a new limited release comes out, fewer people often buy it in 6 months than visit any given concert hall every day (and concert hall's aren't exactly swimming in money). The little money we are worth to them (compared to their other assets) is probably not worth going out of their way to cater to us.

 

7 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

The specialty labels aren't charities. They aren't raking it in, but they've remained going concerns for years, during the CD format's lowest ebb.

 

They're mainly in it for the music, and I'm 99.9% sure the people responsible at Disney aren't. The Labels frequently have releases that cost more than they yield (and they compensate with other releases that sell better).

 

7 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

Money is money. Revenue is revenue. If I spend $50K on something and earn $65K in return, I've made money.

 

Only if the alternative is not doing anything. But Disney is a huge company, and unless they're seriously overstaffed compared to other companies, their departments likely have more on their plates than they can handle at any given time. It's not a decision between selling soundtrack A as is, or selling soundtrack A in an expanded version, or not selling soundtrack A at all. It's a decision between selling soundtrack A as is (relatively cheap and time effective), selling soundtrack A in an expanded version (much more expensive, and much, much more time-consuming, requiring lots of coordination with external advisors if they actually want to do it properly), or selling a totally unrelated item B, which likely has a much greater mass appeal.

 

I don't believe these releases are bad business decisions. They're just bad artistic decisions. And I like to believe that deals could be struck with the speciality labels that would be good artistic decisions and still sensible business decisions, but the main issue is that the business people don't care, so why would they bother (if they even stop to think about it). (In fairness, there's tons of other concerns that warrant consideration that I, or any other of us, tend to ignore on a daily basis)

[HanFiredFirst 43]

Just now, JTW said:

But they are not expanding them. It's the same program as the 2008 box set released by Concord. Without the fifth extra disc and plus the OSt of Dod. 

I know - the argument was "what if they LATER expand them".  If Disney decide to allow Intrada to release expanded scores at a later date, then that's not double dipping. 

[JTN 2,120]

4 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

If I can't afford something I don't buy it

You said that if it's overpriced, people shouldn't buy it. That was a very rude, arrogant and condescending argument on your part, that's what I called a rich boy-attitude.

2 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

I know - the argument was "what if they LATER expand them".  If Disney decide to allow Intrada to release expanded scores at a later date, then that's not double dipping. 

But that's not the case here, is it.

[HanFiredFirst 43]

Just now, JTW said:

You said that if it's overpriced, then poeple shouldn't buy it. That was a very rude, arrogant and condescending argument on your part, that's what I called a rich boy-attitude.

I disagree entirely, but that's fine. There are plenty of things I think are overpriced, or that I can't afford, so I don't buy them. Nothing rude or arrogant about saying if it costs too much for your pocket then don't buy it.

[The Lost Folio 183]

Just now, richiestudman said:

if it costs too much for your pocket

 

That's not what @JTW is saying. It costs too much for the actual value of physical media these days.

 

Can you name any other 5-cd set of anything that sells for $150 price while including nothing new?

[JTN 2,120]

Just now, richiestudman said:

There are plenty of things I think are overpriced, or that I can't afford, so I don't buy them.

But I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about what you said about others who can't afford it. Get the difference? 

 

1 minute ago, richiestudman said:

Nothing rude or arrogant about saying if it costs too much for your pocket then don't buy it.

You really don't get it. I'm asking you again, has it occured to you that someone wants to buy this set but can't afford it? Do you think they have a choice? They CAN'T buy it, whether they want to or not. It's not a matter of choice. Imagine if you couldn't afford to buy something and complained to someone about it, and they said "Well, I'm buying it, and if it's overpriced for you, then don't buy it". Don't you think it were rude to say that to you? 

[Bellosh 3,442]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Folio said:

 

That's not what @JTW is saying. It costs too much for the actual value of physical media these days.

 

Can you name any other 5-cd set of anything that sells for $150 price while including nothing new?

 

Lol even the 6 CD set of star wars was going for something in the $80 range and is now marked down to $60 something

[HanFiredFirst 43]

1 minute ago, The Lost Folio said:

 

That's not what @JTW is saying. It costs too much for the actual value of physical media these days.

 

Can you name any other 5-cd set of anything that sells for $150 price while including nothing new?

That's a different thing entirely to what JTW has said. If we're talking VFM, then no, I don't think it's great VFM. However, the choice of then whether to buy or not to buy is always with the buyer.

 

How Disney decide to set the price is up to them - there's nothing unique on what's been announced, so they're not stopping you from buying the media in another form, just not this box set.

[JTN 2,120]

5 minutes ago, The Lost Folio said:

 

That's not what @JTW is saying. It costs too much for the actual value of physical media these days.

 

Can you name any other 5-cd set of anything that sells for $150 price while including nothing new?

The 20-CD "The Legend of John Williams" Set costs €99.95 on MBR. 

[The Lost Folio 183]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

The 20-CD "The Legend of John Williams" Set costs €99.95 on MBR. 

 

Yes! But does it come in a thin cardboard box? 

[HanFiredFirst 43]

11 minutes ago, JTW said:

But I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about what you said about others who can't afford it. Get the difference? 

 

You really don't get it. I'm asking you again, has it occured to you that someone wants to buy this set but can't afford it? Do you think they have a choice? They CAN'T buy it, whether they want to or not. It's not a matter of choice. Imagine if you couldn't afford to buy something and complained to someone about it, and they said "Well, I'm buying it, and if it's overpriced for you, then don't buy it". Don't you think it were rude to say that to you? 

There is no entitlement to own a boxed set of CDs. This isn't water, or bread, or electricity or gas - this is a luxury item. Nobody needs it, we just want it, and there's a huge difference. 

[Archive Collection 214]

What an insult

[JTN 2,120]

1 minute ago, richiestudman said:

the choice of then whether to buy or not to buy is always with the buyer.

OK, then I choose to buy it, but I can't afford it. Now what? Too bad, right? Why aren't I rich? Is that really your argument? I know we live in capitalism, but come on. With your logic this set could cost $1000, those who can afford it and want to buy it, could, and everyone else can go f..k themselves. 

[HanFiredFirst 43]

Just now, JTW said:

OK, then I choose to buy it, but I can't afford it. Now what? Too bad, right? Why aren't I rich? Is that really your argument? I know we live in capitalism, but come on. With your logic this set could cost $1000, those who can afford it and want to buy it, could, and everyone else can go f..k themselves. 

Sorry, was just on the phone trying to get Elon Musk to drop the price of his cars because I can't afford one but I WANT one.

[JTN 2,120]

7 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

this is a luxury item. You don't NEED it, you WANT it, and there's a huge difference. 

So basically you're saying that Art is for the rich who want it and can have it. If you don't need it, but want it and you can't afford it, then FU. Wow. I'm speechless. 

3 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

Sorry, was just on the phone trying to get Elon Musk to drop the price of his cars because I can't afford one but I WANT one.

You're comparing one of the world's most expensive electric cars to a soundtrack CD? Hahahahahaha!

[HanFiredFirst 43]

Just now, JTW said:

So basically you're saying that Art is for the rich who want it and can have it. If you don't need it, but want it and you can't afford it, then FU. Wow. I'm speechless. 

You're putting your own spin on what I've said. I'm not arguing further with you - I pass on plenty of things I can't afford, I don't get all upset that the manufacturer has put a price point out of my reach, or upset that other people can afford something. It's life. This is a CD boxset - plenty of people have said it's pointless, unnecessary, and that's fine, don't buy it. Plenty of people have said it's overpriced - that's fine, don't buy it. 

[Edmilson 7,510]

How old is Matessino anyway? Even if Disney one fateful day gives him access to Indy and SW, or if Williams allows him to do Storia de una Donna, Sugarland Express, etc., the guy would still need to be in physical and psychological conditions to work. 

 

Which means the window for producing definitive John Williams albums is closing by the day...

[Richard Penna 3,716]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I still believe people here tend to overestimate the intent behind these releases.

...

In short, they probably know and care about as much about film music as I do about cars or football, or even less.

 

Agree with every single word of the above (only removed some for brevity).

 

I would eat my hat if there were any negative or 'fuck you, Williams fans' behind this. I certainly think it's no more complicated than those in charge know absolutely nothing at all about how expanded scores work. Someone decides (wrongly or rightly) that it would be nice to put out a box set containing all five scores (the price is a matter on its own) and probably asks their soundtrack department to give them whatever the 'latest' version is to put into a box. Just so happens to be the new programs made for Concord. Maybe someone in the soundtrack dept has a clue what's going on and actively provides the most complete programs available, instead of the OSTs.

 

If you e-mailed anyone in Disney complaining about this, going on about missing music and pitch issues, you'd get someone looking at their screen as confused as I would be if you e-mailed me to explain the last cricket score. (hint: I couldn't be less interested in cricket).

[JTN 2,120]

6 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

How old is Matessino anyway? Even if Disney one fateful day gives him access to Indy and SW, or if Williams allows him to do Storia de una Donna, Sugarland Express, etc., the guy would still need to be in physical and psychological conditions to work. 

 

Which means the window for producing definitive John Williams albums is closing by the day...

He's not old. I'm more worried about us, JWFaners living to see that fateful day. 

[Richard Penna 3,716]

Treat this with the appropriate level of sacrilege, but MM isn't the only soundtrack producer... sure he's the current expert, but someone else could do SW/Indy and do a good job. It's a bit funny suggesting that if he retires before he does these, it's the end of the world  

[Bellosh 3,442]

I'm more worried about a multi billion company not knowing how or willing to not want to properly expand a release on the level of the smaller studios.  Embarrassing.

[That_Bloke 115]

14 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

How old is Matessino anyway? 

 

Why don't you ask him directly? 

I don't know how old he is but the guy seems to have the Paul McCartney / Peter Pan gene: he seems to look like he's always 20-something (plus he's So. Damn. Hot.  ).

[Jurassic Shark 12,137]

That you, Bes?

[Marian Schedenig 8,237]

33 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

However, the choice of then whether to buy or not to buy is always with the buyer.

 

Objectively wrong. The choice is only with those who can afford to buy it. The others don't have a choice.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,137]

You can choose to take up a loan or to eat noodles for a month.

[BB-8 3,515]

A CD box for JW newbies should definitely remain affordable!

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,237]

27 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

Sorry, was just on the phone trying to get Elon Musk to drop the price of his cars because I can't afford one but I WANT one.

 

Aside from the fact that these days I wouldn't want to buy a Tesla even if I wanted to buy a car - there are other cars that serve the same function. They're not identical, but I'd argue that another car, even a less efficient/comfortable one, has more in common with a Tesla than another JW score of equal quality has in common with one of his Indy scores.

 

If I want to have the score for Raiders of the Lost Ark but can't afford it, the score for Lincoln (which I love) isn't an acceptable alternative.

[Richard Penna 3,716]

5 hours ago, Bayesian said:

Business people know how to read, right? Like, how to read the exhortations from the passionate, money-spending collector crowd? Or they have staff who can tell them that there exists a passionate, money-spending crowd that would buy properly produced expanded albums, I assume? So why don't these people listen??

The specialty labels aren't charities. They aren't raking it in, but they've remained going concerns for years, during the CD format's lowest ebb. Disney should know they could make money from this endeavor-- indeed, they do know it, since they've got their Legacy Collection going. 

 

I think part of the problem is that the Legacy collection for example, is taking a score that had an OST and doing one expanded version with all the music. Simples. At most it would take a 2 minute explanation that the first album never contains all music recorded for a film.

 

Then you get SW/Indy and you could drown in the endless swarm of releases - OSTs, reissues, partial expansions done from terrible sounding tapes. A typical executive is never going to understand what it is that's still wrong. Ask for a 'proper' expansion of SW and they'll pick up those 2-CD reissues and say... isn't that what you're asking for?

 

Can't be bothered to read through the bin fire of whatever argument is going on above  (it's too expensive for what it is... not sure what the contention is)

[Marian Schedenig 8,237]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You can choose to take up a loan or to eat noodles for a month.

 

Some people already do that before they have to decide whether they can afford to buy a soundtrack.

[Jurassic Shark 12,137]

But do they have a CD player?

[HanFiredFirst 43]

 

 

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Aside from the fact that these days I wouldn't want to buy a Tesla even if I wanted to buy a car - there are other cars that serve the same function. They're not identical, but I'd argue that another car, even a less efficient/comfortable one, has more in common with a Tesla than another JW score of equal quality has in common with one of his Indy scores.

 

If I want to have the score for Raiders of the Lost Ark but can't afford it, the score for Lincoln (which I love) isn't an acceptable alternative.

But as has been pointed out many times, Raiders is available on CD or streaming in many other formats, so the box set version is simply a version of the standard CD that can be bought elsewhere. So if you can't afford/don't want to bu the new Disney boxset, you don't have to forego the CD soundtrack.

[Marian Schedenig 8,237]

5 minutes ago, richiestudman said:

But as has been pointed out many times, Raiders is available on CD or streaming in many other formats, so the box set version is simply a version of the standard CD that can be bought elsewhere. So if you can't afford/don't want to bu the new Disney boxset, you don't have to forego the CD soundtrack.

 

Fair enough. Substitute Raiders for DoD then. And no, I don't consider streaming a serious alternative to owning (or, more specificall: having) the actual music. I admit there's the digital download release, which is inferior, but yes, it is an alternative.

 

Doesn't change the fact that this set is absurdly overpriced.

[BB-8 3,515]

This discussion supports the fact that the Disney box is superfluous and only serves a very small group of rich, superficially interested consumers.

[Bellosh 3,442]

If each release here was missing whatever in the hell we're missing from the Concord Raiders (I honestly couldn't tell you at the moment)....I doubt most of us here would be as bummed out by this, but still probably a bit bummed.

 

But there's simply way too much music missing from the other 4 scores. And it's been 15 fucking years since Concord at least put a well intentioned step forward however incomplete they were. I'm a little bit more sympathetic to a smaller label like Concord.

 

Disney has no excuses. Disney is just milking this shit.

[HanFiredFirst 43]

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Fair enough. Substitute Raiders for DoD then. And no, I don't consider streaming a serious alternative to owning (or, more specificall: having) the actual music. I admit there's the digital download release, which is inferior, but yes, it is an alternative.

 

Doesn't change the fact that this set is absurdly overpriced.

It's an expensive set - I don't get the pricing decision at all.  DoD will no doubt get another press - it's had two that I know of already - and when I bought mine it cost $8.39, so I think the same applies - it's not currently available, but I'd be very surprised if Disney don't press more. When I spoke to them about my delayed order back in September they told me they'd had issues with the plant, not that they were holding back production or limiting it. The box set isn't out 'til March - I think we'll see DoD on disc well before that.

[Jurassic Shark 12,137]

13 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

If each release here was missing whatever in the hell we're missing from the Concord Raiders (I honestly couldn't tell you at the moment)....I doubt most of us here would be as bummed out by this, but still probably a bit bummed.

 

But there's simply way too much music missing from the other 4 scores. And it's been 15 fucking years since Concord at least put a well intentioned step forward however incomplete they were. I'm a little bit more sympathetic to a smaller label like Concord.

 

Disney has no excuses. Disney is just milking this shit.

 

Just waiting for JWFans to find out Disney trimmed two minutes at the end of each CD.

 

[GerateWohl 4,411]

24 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

...to find out Disney trimmed two minutes at the end of each CD.

and will sell these minutes by an extra bonus disk for additional 100$.

[JTN 2,120]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

MM isn't the only soundtrack producer...

I'd be completely happy with Chris Malone taking up the mantle, if MM - god forbid! - for some reason wouldn't be available.