Composers that you disliked, but now like?

[Thor 7,512]

Perhaps there has been a previous thread on this, but I couldn't find it.

 

Anyways, there is a handful or two of composers that I've once disliked, for one reason or another, but then come to like (to varying degrees) at certain points in my film music fandom. I'm sure we all have those, and it would be interesting to hear who, and what score made you "turn around" on said composer.

 

Rather than list all of mine at once, I'd like to spread them out over time, and add another when I feel like it. But I can start off with one - Harry Gregson-Williams.

 

When I first discovered HGW in the mid 90s, it was as an extension of Zimmer, but somehow I didn't find anything interesting there. A film like SMILLA'S SENSE OF SNOW had so much potential (Bille August, epicness, Zimmer connection), but I found that the score wandered aimlessly. No melodic hooks, like with Zimmer. Same with some of his other scores at the time, like THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS, THE BORROWERS, ENEMY OF THE STATE, SPY GAME, even ANTZ. I attributed the success of CHICKEN RUN to Powell, not HGW. But then came KINGDOM OF HEAVEN in 2005 and turned everything completely around. I was totallly in love with that score from day one, and it made me not only meet subsequent HGW scores with a more open mind, but also reassess some of those earlier ones I had disliked. I mean, he's still hit and miss, but I got a whole new respect for the man and his music after KINGDOM.

 

Your turn.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

We are all looking forward to the day, when you are going to write a post here about Michael Giacchino.  

[Thor 7,512]

Giacchino and Göransson will have to wait. Maybe for forever. But Desplat, the third of the "Big Three Offenders", I've warmed to a little bit, at least a small selection of his work. I'll get to him later.

[Schilkeman 964]

I have learned to appreciate Jerry Goldsmith, though I can't say I ever really disliked him. I had to learn a lot more about jazz to really get in to it. I love both now.

 

If I have a gift, and it's a worthless one, it's the ability to recognize artistic significance that I may not fully comprehend in the moment. Something that I may not jive with now, but will make a note to come back to later. This instinct has rarely failed me. 

 

Too much film music does not make me want to come back to it later.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I never had something like a complete turnaround from dislike to like.

 

But I didn't really have a high oppinion on Danny Elfman until I heard his violin concerto.

I had a few score albums of his like his Batmans, Beetlejuice, Edward etc. But I disliked the shortness of breath of his themes and his at first glance narrow stylistic palette and there alway was too much unisono with full orchestra and choir. And his melodies didn't really get caught in my head. His electronic efforts like A Civil Auction I found even more boring.

Then what first let me pay more attention were his Spiderman scores. And after that I completely fell in love with his violin concerto.

Now I managed to see what I found narrow more like a stylistc trademark and really enjoy his rhythmic powerful usage of the orchestra.

 

[karelm 2,914]

I have a group of composers that I love now that used to dismiss outright.  Sad to say Horner was in that list.  I completely love his music and sound world but in the 1990's-2000's, felt he was phoning in a lot of his scores.  I was wrong.  

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

There was a time (lasting a year or two) when Gustav Mahler was a (maybe the only) composer that I actively disliked. When the turn around came it was very rapid; before you could say “Auferstehn!” he’d risen to the top of my list of favourites. Nowadays I’d count him second only to Pierre Boulez.

 

I can’t think of any film music examples…

[Loert 2,515]

Uhm...John Williams. There was a time when I thought his music was just not very serious, and "airy-fairy". I had this image that Williams was writing not from his heart, but just to put some nice sounding music to film. But over time I came to appreciate the sophistication and skill that goes into writing that kind of music, and especially how difficult it is to write music that can speak to the general population whilst also having plenty of substance for the most hard-core music theorists to dig into. Williams truly is the master in that respect so...here I am.

 

In terms of classical music, Brahms comes to mind. I used to dislike him, now I think I'm beginning to get round to him...took a bit of effort, though.

[A24 4,338]

7 hours ago, Loert said:

Uhm...John Williams. There was a time when I thought his music was just not very serious, and "airy-fairy". I had this image that Williams was writing not from his heart, but just to put some nice sounding music to film. But over time I came to appreciate the sophistication and skill that goes into writing that kind of music, and especially how difficult it is to write music that can speak to the general population whilst also having plenty of substance for the most hard-core music theorists to dig into. Williams truly is the master in that respect so...here I am.

 

In terms of classical music, Brahms comes to mind. I used to dislike him, now I think I'm beginning to get round to him...took a bit of effort, though.

 

So you still think it's all skill (which you've come to respect) but no heart? 

 

 

17 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

 

But I didn't really have a high oppinion on Danny Elfman until I heard his violin concerto.

 

 

He wrote a violin concerto?! Must check it out. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

2 hours ago, A24 said:

He wrote a violin concerto?! Must check it out. 

1st movement:

 

 

[A24 4,338]

Amazon Music has it in Ultra HD. Will listen to it this afternoon. 

[Loert 2,515]

4 hours ago, A24 said:

So you still think it's all skill (which you've come to respect) but no heart?

 

Well, JW obviously writes the best music he can for the task that he's given, and I think that's all that matters. It can be dangerous to go into such metaphors of whether or not a composer was writing "from the heart" or not, because there are some perverse connotations there, for example that music "from the heart" has to be unpolished to some degree, because it must be unfiltered by the intellect (or something like that). I don't buy that sort of talk. People express themselves in different ways. Just because some music sounds unpolished and raw, doesn't mean it came directly from the heart. One can maybe say that his 1st Violin Concerto is a more personal work than Jaws, but they're both great pieces of music, so...

 

Nevertheless, there are obviously cases where a composer "phones in" and doesn't put all that they can give into a picture. And I think it's fair to say that out of all composers, JW has done this probably the least. Virtually every film he's done has something special about it, which is astounding given the number of films he's worked on.

 

So essentially what I'm saying is, I don't care anymore whether JW writes "from the heart" or not; his music is some of the best film music out there, and I love listening to it and will probably never get tired of it, so clearly he's doing it right.

[A24 4,338]

19 minutes ago, Loert said:

 

Well, JW obviously writes the best music he can for the task that he's given, and I think that's all that matters. It can be dangerous to go into such metaphors of whether or not a composer was writing "from the heart" or not, because there are some perverse connotations there, for example that music "from the heart" has to be unpolished to some degree, because it must be unfiltered by the intellect (or something like that). I don't buy that sort of talk. People express themselves in different ways. Just because some music sounds unpolished and raw, doesn't mean it came directly from the heart. One can maybe say that his 1st Violin Concerto is a more personal work than Jaws, but they're both great pieces of music, so...

 

Nevertheless, there are obviously cases where a composer "phones in" and doesn't put all that they can give into a picture. And I think it's fair to say that out of all composers, JW has done this probably the least. Virtually every film he's done has something special about it, which is astounding given the number of films he's worked on.

 

So essentially what I'm saying is, I don't care anymore whether JW writes "from the heart" or not; his music is some of the best film music out there, and I love listening to it and will probably never get tired of it, so clearly he's doing it right.

 

If William's music touches the heart of the listener, which I think his music does, they will probably say that Williams' music has a heart. It's why we recognize William's voice in all his work. I think most art comes "from the heart", unless of course it has been deliberately created on a intellectual level, but even then it would be quite difficult to exclude your own emotions from the process. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

I used to dislike Goldsmith probably because of the poor soundings of some of his old OST. Then came Django Unchained and its Goldsmith track and I decided to listen to more of him starting with the Intrada presentation of Alien. The score immediatly clicked with me since I'm a big fan of the movie and I moved on to Star Trek TMP, another masterpiece and finally Basic Instinct was rerelease in my town theater, I want to see it not knowing Goldsmith was scoring it and completely fell in love with the score.

 

Göransson was another composer with whom I had issue. His first score I discovered was Black Panther and I completely loved it, but then I listened to his awful Venom and didn't like his approach to the SW universe but ultimately his music start to grown on me (espacially The Mandalorian) when I was listening to it outside the movie.

 

Finally I used to dislike JNH, mostly because his Fantastic Beasts weren't half as good as Williams' HP music. But with time I started to see the beauty in thoses and even though I'm still convinced that they're not half as good as Williams' original scores, they're still terrific.

[Stark 316]

I have never been a big fan of Joseph Trapanese’s mainstream scores, and therefore didn’t like his music, but more recently I’ve encountered his more melodic side (only present in scores nobody has heard of), which is quite good.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Again not really a dislike-then like story, but the release of Mancini's Lifeforce score pushed him for me into a whole new category.

Before that Mancini belonged for me into that jazzy easy listening corner . But with Lifeforce I started seeing him as a serious orchestral composer and got more interested in his work overall. 

[Bespin 8,483]

For a long time, I was resistant to Jerry Goldsmith's style, which I thought was too, I don't know, raw or rather experimental. Eventually, as I got to know it better, I learned to appreciate his style, which remains very masculine but also has a feminine sensitivity. There are days when I still find some of his soundtracks a bit too raw, so I listen to something else. But overall, I'm glad to have included him in my list of 'essential' composers because I would have missed out on a great master of film music who is still respected and, to be honest, indispensable today.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

This one might be hard for someone to understand, but mine is Jerry Goldsmith. But please let me explain.

 

I grew up in the 21st century and Zimmer, Williams, Powell & Giacchino were my first dicoveries of film music. Williams was really only SW & Indy and when I started to explore more and more of his scores, someday I came across the name Jerry Goldsmith.

 

When I started listening to his music it didn't click. I disliked Planet Of The Apes, threw of Star Trek and his other adventure fantasy scores mere Williams wannabes. I also couldn't connect at all with his synth work. They were obnixious and made me angry.

 

Then about 2 or 3 years later I was reading a magazine with an article highlighting Goldsmith's score for The Mummy. At first I was like "ugh I know this and I don't care". But then the person wrote about the score in such detail and enthusiasm that I took my chance to explore it again.

 

Somehow with the desciption of this person and after seeing the film I understood what Goldsmith was doing and the way he wrote music.

Before this I always felt like his action music was too chaotic but after this "breakthrough" I couldn't underatand why I thought that. His action music is very sophisticated and complicated and nowadays that's what I love about it so much.

 

After this experience with The Mummy I decided to explore his work again. Watch the film the scores accompanied and I just fell in love with his music and I never looked back. Maybe I was too young at the time or something to take the time to really explore it.

 

I've had this with other composers as well, but none of that music is now so dear to me as Goldsmith's. 

[DrTenma 116]

I had a similar experience with Harry Gregson-Williams, but the first time I really enjoyed his work was with Spy Game. 

 

I tend to like Giacchino (his Medal of Honor and Lost scores are some of my most played CD's) but not so much lately... For example, I enjoy a lot Spider-Man 1 and 2 but not his 3rd one.

 

Göransson could be in this group, but I need first to like his music  I'm not a big fan of his scores. I like some bits but I don't find his music special.

 

In many instances I find Desplat's music boring. I like him when he works with West Anderson but Pinoccio and Little Women are unbearable...

 

Kevin Kiner is one composer that I generally dislike but after some time I don't find his music so bad (The Clone Wars is not my cup of tea but the music for the last season is fine)

[bollemanneke 3,349]

I used to dislike John Williams. Then 2016 came.

[Bespin 8,483]

12 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I used to dislike John Williams. Then 2016 came.

The BFG?

[bollemanneke 3,349]

No, Far and Away and Home Alone.

[Schilkeman 964]

The BFG is a brilliant score that could make any discerning listener a fan.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Well, I used to dislike Lorne Balfe's music, but now I came to appreciate his memorable themes, creative orchestrations that make good use of each of the 500 musicians he hires for each score, brilliant action music and originality - how could I ever thought he was just aping The Dark Knight and Inception? If I was John Williams I'd be very careful - looks like Lorne will eventually surpass him!

 

[/s]

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

19 hours ago, Loert said:

Just because some music sounds unpolished and raw, doesn't mean it came directly from the heart.

 

17 hours ago, Bespin said:

I was resistant to Jerry Goldsmith's style, which I thought was too, I don't know, raw or rather experimental.

 

I also tend to find some of his music too raw, like it could need another round of refinement, but I've warmed up a bit to his more refined music.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

We should also have a reverse thread about "composers I used to like but dislike now'. I have some candidates there.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Budd's score to The Phantom of the Opera made me realise he's done at least one great score. 

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Zimmer would be an obvious one. I used to not really care for his sound in the nineties and early zeroes. Then the mid-to-late 2000's came around and in quick succession, he produced a variety of scores like The Holiday, The Simpsons Movie and Pirates 3, which are all really good. I also think he's done really interesting work in his later Nolan scores and I really dig what he's doing with his live shows, turning film music into a rock event. It's certainly a different flavor from John Williams conquering the Musiekverein and the Berliner Philharmonic, but its just as valid.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

That's funny because I think I was at my anti-Zimmer peak during those years. But I think a lot of it was because John Williams was mostly MIA, 2005-2011ish, feeling sad that he might be retired and Zimmer was always the obvious punching bag. That also just came with being a teenager and figuring out my own general tastes too. Interstellar was a good reminder that he's exceptional at his best. I think it'd be fun to see him live, a friend who has no particular interest in film music said he was the best show at Coachella 2017 which made me smile. 

[JTN 2,030]

I used to not care about Mark Isham's work, but a few years ago I really liked one of scores, probably INVINCIBLE - what it was escapes me now - and I've become a fan ever since. He's very underrated. 

[Stark 316]

I still can’t say I’m an Isham fan, but I have heard good scores of his (like Cool World) so I know he has it in him.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I am a huge fan of Isham's score for Black Dahlia. But that's about it.

[thestat 348]

I obediently followed Michael Kamen through the 90s, literally getting everyone of his albums, eventually coming to a realisation that his style was either too 'corny' (ie. all the saxophone concertos etc) or messy (his orchestral actiony stuff which is all rough edges and weird dissonance amongst the celebrated Escapes to Sherwood). Very much disliked him throughout the 2000s and 2010s (ie, post-RIP)

 

Have since done a major pivot back to about 1991. Not sure what did it but listening to the expansion of Die Hard 2 played a major role here, and rewatching films like Event Horizon made me appreciate the gothic massive work he did there (if only we could get the full score). Now I am back in the camp of Joel Silver and listen to his 90s work with astonishment for their creativity and often sheer balls.

 

Slight caveat on Die Hard 2 - upon watching it in 4k with Dolby Atmos, the clanging and banging in some of the action on the original album is clearly by, you guessed it, Don Davis.

 

Still - if any of those expansions of some of the pivotal scores come through, I can't wait.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

10 hours ago, Dogstar said:

... upon watching it ... with Dolby Atmos, the clanging and banging in some of the action on the original album is clearly by, you guessed it, Don Davis.

 

Is this official, or are you saying that Davis sounds like Kamen?

[thestat 348]

No it's not official, none of it will be in most cases - even with Horner and Pagemaster etc. Davis included tracks from the Pagemaster release on his promo CD that he apparently sent out - much like HZ composers do with their websites - and we are just left with a 'well that doesn't sound like composer A and B, but it sure is very similar to the Matrix'.....I mean at least HZ started crediting them......

 

The problem with HZ composers is that they never get to develop an idiosyncratic style outside of the first patch - Powell, HGW, the rest are interchangeable

[Mephariel 451]

On 14/01/2024 at 5:53 AM, Stark said:

I still can’t say I’m an Isham fan, but I have heard good scores of his (like Cool World) so I know he has it in him.

 

The only score I like from Isham is Fly Away Home. 

[29944 20]

On 16/01/2024 at 12:51 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Is this official, or are you saying that Davis sounds like Kamen?

Davis is credited for additional music for Die Hard 2 in GEMA, so, yes, it's official.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Dmitri Shostakovich. And the weird thing is… the things that I used to find annoying about him are among the main reasons I love him now.  

 

Yavar

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Dmitri Shostakovich. And the weird thing is… the things that I used to find annoying about him are among the main reasons I love him now.  

 

Yavar

... and what are they, Yavar?

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

His abrasiveness; his extreme juxtaposition of the sublime and the ridiculous. Stuff like that. It’s integral to his style, used to rub me the wrong way, but as I listened to more and more my tastes changed and grew, and now I often love the very things I used to find annoying or off-putting.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Not surprising, as it's kind of like Goldsmith.

[Knight of Ren 789]

I guess I would say Alan Menken. Not that I disliked his music, but being younger I thought it was just inconsequential fluff for kiddie movies. Then, I rewatched some of his classic ones, like Beauty and the Beast, Pocahontas, Hunchback of Notre Dame or Aladdin, and realized he's one of the best in the field. The way he has created dozens of memorable melodies, how he interweaves them within the score, and how he also manages to create some memorable underscore for film with such a song-heavy focus is quite marvelous. His score for BatB and Huchback are now some of my favorite animated scores ever!

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

58 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Not surprising, as it's kind of like Goldsmith.

Sure, in some ways. Film music definitely has to turn on a dime. But I think my “in” to Shostakovich was more coming around to Mahler previously.

 

Yavar

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

I used to hate both Barry, and Morricone, with a passion. I thought that their music was both simple beyond belief, and no better than the noodlings of a second-year music student.

How times have changed, eh? 

[Ollie 1,059]

Not exactly a dislike, but there was a stretch, mid 90’s to a few years before he passed, where I lost interest in James Horner and got rid of quite a bit of his scores I had. None of the expanded ones from the labels, but quite a bit of his stuff that yet to be expanded.

 

I don’t what it was that drew me back to his music but I found myself falling back in love with his music.

 

 

 

 
 

[thestat 348]

On 23/01/2024 at 2:34 AM, 29944 said:

Davis is credited for additional music for Die Hard 2 in GEMA, so, yes, it's official.

Thank you - this was my point. The guy was everywhere at the time.

 

There's a lot of these composers that I hated or disliked at times, due to, well, just me being an immature shit that did not understand industry:

 

Examples:

Hated Mark Mancina for a year because his Assassins score was weirdly subdued with no melodies or bombast and lacked the Speed and Bad Boys awesomeness - soon to be rectified with Twister.

 

Love/hate with Jerry Goldsmith - 95-97 were rough times for JG fans. He was doing his Stuart-Baird-Refrain (as another mind put it on FSM) for everything, culminating in Chain Reaction where the action was the SBF. River Wild in 94 was terrible and lazy, The Shadow was brilliant and innovative, as was Bad Girls. JG was unbalanced.

 

City Hall is, and remains, a lazy arse Bernstein score as does LA Confidential, no love for these two.

 

But then JG recovers with perhaps the help of the HiJacking from Air Force One, and everything from Mulan to 13th Warrior is fully brilliant.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

Compare Jerry's score for LA CONFIDENTIAL, with Dave Grusin's score for MULHOLLAND FALLS.

Grusin's score predated Jerry's by 18 months, yet Jerry's score gets all the kudos.

Strange.

[saulocf 79]

My pick is Patrick Doyle. I still consider him overrated, but I use to really dislike this Harry Potter score (and how it abandoned Williams themes). My perception of him changed with “Charlitos Way” (his best score IMO. 

[Thor 7,512]

Some great stories here, keep 'em coming.

 

My second entry would be Mark Isham (I see someone else mentioned him above too). I didn't like him in the 90s and early 2000s. I felt he was a one-trick pony, relying too much on his trumpet and jazz (RADIOLAND MURDERS was a particular "hate object"). But then I heard CRASH (2004) and was floored. That score has since rocketed to become one of my top 10 electronically-driven scores of all time. It made me re-explore his earlier efforts, and suddenly I found so much to enjoy -- gorgeous landscapes, often synth, pastoral and super sophisticated. Same goes for the Windham Hill stuff. He's still hit and miss, of course, but when he's on, he's really on. Love Isham now.

[JTN 2,030]

Mark Isham here as well. And Mark Mancina, Trevor Rabin. Also, to a degree, Marco Beltrami.