Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 No, that's the MCU you're thinking about right there.... Jurassic Shark and SteveMc 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Regardless of what he says in the book, I think it's fairly obvious that Morricone has HUGE respect for Williams. Their interactions during the Oscar ceremony (and pre-Oscar ceremonies) a couple of years ago are ample proof of that. He's entitled to his opinion about STAR WARS, which I don't think diminishes that respect in any way. Bayesian and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chen G. said: No, that's the MCU you're thinking about right there.... Surfing on the wave of infantilization and erosion that Star Wars created! Trump, Brexit, all of the current civil unrest and political strife in the world, all of the social injustices and scandals, the mass stupidity of entire generations...all of it points back to Star Wars! To Star Wars! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Thor said: Regardless of what he says in the book, I think it's fairly obvious that Morricone has HUGE respect for Williams. Their interactions during the Oscar ceremony (and pre-Oscar ceremonies) a couple of years ago are ample proof of that. He's entitled to his opinion about STAR WARS, which I don't think diminishes that respect in any way. He is probably surprised that a musician of Williams' talent would lend himself to such a low rent franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Well, he's not the first. André Previn has expressed similar thoughts, having requested him to do more concert works and less film work for decades now. It's all fine. His colleagues are entitled to their opinions about his work and his chosen film projects, as long as they also recognize his immense talent as a composer. apples and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stefancos said: He is probably surprised that a musician of Williams' talent would lend himself to such a low rent franchise. It makes sense, really, especially given that Morricone was very selective of the films that deserved his caliber of musicianship, such as Orca. Just now, Thor said: Well, he's not the first. André Previn has expressed similar thoughts, having requested him to do more concert works and less film work for decades now. It's all fine. His colleagues are entitled to their opinions about his work and his chosen film projects, as long as they also recognize his immense talent as a composer. If anything I almost find it touching, that they see it as a great composer wasting his time and talent. Jurassic Shark, Will and SteveMc 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 In short, Morricone was too cute for his own good. Whether he likes it or not, film music is more about general aesthetics than challenging listens. His intention is admirable, but when watching a film, nobody cares except film music freaks. If he wants more general appreciation for the intelligence in his music per se, he should write symphonies. Also, nobody associates a march with space. He does. Pretty much anyone else associates the march with Star Wars. Movie studios have commercial concerns, no shit, Ennio. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 You have been far more critical of Williams and Star Wars than Ennio has! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: Surfing on the wave of infantilization and erosion that Star Wars created! Trump, Brexit, all of the current civil unrest and political strife in the world, all of the social injustices and scandals, the mass stupidity of entire generations...all of it points back to Star Wars! To Star Wars! I believe you're thinking about Star Trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Fabulin said: The older he gets, the more he looks like that Nazi hunter from THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Ludwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 To be fair to Morricone, he has criticised the arrangement of one theme. I've trashed whole JW scores, before now...but then again, I'm allowed to; I'm a JWfan Oomoog the Ecstatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Yes but you're just a fan. He's a composer of lesser talent expressing professional jealousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 No, the lesser talented composer was the one being criticized! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted February 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2019 Morricone's sin is that of hindsight. The music now seems sell out commercial music. But when Williams wrote, it might have been even deemed an unusual approach. I think many composers might have gone electronic with it or something futuristic or technological sounding. The other sin is the implication that it is perhaps half assed music applied to make a quick buck. Again he ignores that forget the film itself, the music itself is often quite complex and skillful and difficult to write. Who else could even write a score like that? Not even Morricone I would venture. I would like a serious discussion comparing the two. Have we ever had one here? I can tell you write away most of your critics and film Twitter set would in a heartbeat pick Morricone over Williams. Almost 99%. But I think a meaningful discussion could be had about this. Fabulin, Jurassic Shark and apples 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Ennio is more critical of just about anyone else more than he was of Williams! Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Ennio is more critical of just about anyone else more than he was of Williams! Williams seems to be one of his favourite living film composers, actually. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 But he is critical of composers who, he argues, have been complicit in dumbing down their art. “Film composers have themselves underestimated their own contribution and, in so doing, they have made directors and producers accustomed to very fast working times – not the least by resorting to myriads of clichés,” he says. Anobody else thinking of RCP when reading this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Anyway, I'm wondering if he's actually seen Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted February 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2019 How sad to see Alessandro De Rosa's beautiful, in-depth writing for this book with Morricone going down the trivializing route of petty journalism in search of gossips. Morricone's remarks about Star Wars were already exposed in Sergio Miceli's book "Composing for Cinema" from the late 1990s. Here, Alessandro asked him specifically why he was so critical of the score and Morricone basically stated the same (i.e. a march is a musical form not good for science fiction, etc.), but there is absolutely nothing envious about it. Ennio Morricone is totally and absolutely respectful of John Williams, both as a composer and as a colleague. He sincerely admires him. And the admiration is mututal, as JW himself penned a short introductory note for this book. Just do yourself a favor: read the book for what it is, i.e. an absolute and unique peek inside the mind of a musical genius. crocodile, Ollie and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Severin Murray is complimentary but indifferent to most of John Williams’ post-1997 work in his new post. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 398 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I love you Morricone. You're a genius. You're probably top 5 film composers of all time, but it sounds like you're salty about Star Wars success bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Very funny. Williams touch for Star Wars is totally wrong. We needed six voiced fugue. Ennio never wroted any sugary audience proposing themes 😜😜😜Sad. Ennio is the next Eno. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 He's more like an emo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Morricone > Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,660 Posted March 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, Koray Savas said: Morricone > Williams That is sweet of him to point to Williams as the better composer. The Illustrious Jerry, John, Bayesian and 3 others 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, Koray Savas said: Morricone > Williams In a poll on JWFAN who would win? apples 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 43 minutes ago, Koray Savas said: Morricone > Williams It is impossible to compare them, really. The Illustrious Jerry and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Ennio Icecreamcone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 20 hours ago, Koray Savas said: Morricone > Williams Fair enough. (if one prefer big mac over three michelin star meal) But Williams>Morricone when it comes to the commenting on other artists... Very classy dear John. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 25. Februar 2019 at 12:16 PM, TownerFan said: How sad to see Alessandro De Rosa's beautiful, in-depth writing for this book with Morricone going down the trivializing route of petty journalism in search of gossips. Morricone's remarks about Star Wars were already exposed in Sergio Miceli's book "Composing for Cinema" from the late 1990s. Yes, god forbid people not up to the neck in key signatures discuss interview quotes in simpler terms, without having read an obscure italian's book from 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, hornist said: Fair enough. (if one prefer big mac over three michelin star meal) But Williams>Morricone when it comes to the commenting on other artists... Very classy dear John. Williams may have a humble public personality but like any other artist has his own opinions of others. Both are superb composers, but Ennio is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,483 Posted March 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2019 They are the two best... still alive. The Illustrious Jerry, Score and SteveMc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Morricone is certainly more prolific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 3/1/2019 at 12:01 AM, Kasey Kockroach said: Ennio Icecreamcone Is that what they said at 0:24? Well, fwiw My favorite film director of all time doesn't care for my favorite composer. I think I'm going to rescore some more David Lynch scenes using John Williams tracks. What can you do. Teach them. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 3:01 AM, Koray Savas said: Both are superb composers, but Ennio is better. Proof it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Stefancos said: Proof it! The dude who cannot listen to TBT through and whose mind is poisoned by HZ??? Sure can't. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwashington 59 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 The title is Star WARS and a march isn't appropriate? It's a stylistic choice, and he certainly uses wonder when it's called for in the films. The reality is that Star Wars isn't really about space - it's greek inspired character development that happens to take place " a long time ago in a galaxy far far away." It's why Williams relied so heavily on Wagnerian lite motif because he knew themes would help tie the story together. Scoring it larger than life I think was appropriate as well given the size of the structures the characters are placed in. Now, I don't doubt that Ennio has a point that Williams chose to go commercial. I don't think given Williams' background growing up on sound stages that you can really blame him for choosing that route - as a young composer you take the opportunities you can get - but I don't think choosing the commercial route is a "bad" thing that Ennio seems to be suggesting. In fact, his work with the Boston Pops and scoring all these big commercial blockbusters with artistry has done a significant amount to advance or at least preserve the acceptance and adoration of orchestral arts - something that is absolutely necessary for the intellectual advancement of the art as well. I think you could even debate that he has advanced the art, but his innovation is not in areas where Ennio excels (e.g. applying innovative forms like using a 6 part fugue in a film), but more nitty-gritty details like jazz harmony, texture, and orchestration. Besides, I think European film makers are much more tolerant of those kind of risks than American studios - especially now. Having lived in Italy for a while and seeing the massive state support for orchestras/operas and immense pride, I understand why Ennio might not get the need for composers like Williams (though that enthusiasm among youth in Italy is declining as well). I know way too many young musicians and non-trained classical music lovers in the USA who are massive fans of Williams and attribute their initial love of orchestral music to him. While I have no proof of this, after his initial success I think Williams choice to stay commercial was extremely strategic and it's clear that he enjoys scoring films that will be viewed by children/intellectuals and uses every trick in the book to deliver musical "sweets" to this audience as a way to hook them while also scoring tastefully. It's why I hardly care that he quotes or plagiarizes. To suggest that he does it as a cop out or is unaware of it is, frankly, insulting given how intelligent we all know him to be from the cerebral interviews he gives. The only other way to explain it is perhaps temp tracks, but I think its more likely just a creative way to take great bits from musical history and subtlety deliver them to a massive audience with the hope that they'll not only selfishly buy an album, but go to an opera/ballet/symphony (as he is known to do and support often) or listen to more orchestral music. He was good friends with Leonard Bernstein who also is a massive champion of music education, so I wouldn't be surprised if his "commercial" choice was about influence more than money. Just look at his house for petes sake... he's certainly not materialistic. We have plenty of proof that Williams is talented and innovative when he has the opportunity. Making the choice to confine that creativity to market and share it with more people is a choice he has earned the ability to make. Despite that, I'm still looking forward to seeing the crazy sketches that never saw daylight when we finally see his archives. Joni Wiljami and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 . Knox harrington, what is your problem? Ok. So sad Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 @Knox Harrington Hahahahaha! Nice play...wonder if he'll draw the connection at any point...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 He hands out the confused reaction like candy on Halloween but can't take it when I do it. Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 14 hours ago, hornist said: The dude who cannot listen to TBT through and whose mind is poisoned by HZ??? Sure can't. You used to be fun, but now we have @Bespin! Nick Parker and Joni Wiljami 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Knox Harrington said: He hands out the confused reaction like candy on Halloween but can't take it when I do it. Knox (Kno-X) gon' give it to ya! apples 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 On 2/24/2019 at 7:10 PM, Stefancos said: He is probably surprised that a musician of Williams' talent would lend himself to such a low rent franchise. Yeah, JW should do more "high quality" "soft porns" à la Morricone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I never said Ennio wasn't a bit of an intellectual twat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now