Who is the most overrated film composer in recent history?

[Thor 7,531]

Funny this should be ressurected now, in the wake of the STAR WARS news. Apparently, I did vote in this poll back then, but I never responded.

 

For me, this is VERY easy: Alexandre Desplat and Michael Giacchino. By FAR. I can't stand either of them, and with some very few exceptions, I've always found their music either droney, directionless, boring, grating or overly ostinato-based (sometimes giving the "air" of there being something there, probably due to the orchestration, but in actuality completely empty).

 

I see that Zimmer is mentioned quite a few times in this thread (not surprising, given the anti-Zimmer bias in this forum). I think he's perfectly rated, as the fantastic composer that he is, continually re-inventing himself. Also rather shocked to see Beltrami mentioned -- a wonderful composer, especially his work in the 90s and early 2000s (but also with some good stuff in recent years).

[crocodile 8,020]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Neither! Can't we choose a far better composer?

But they're (almost) all dead!

 

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

8 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 Djawadi. 

 

Wasn't he in that 70s rock'n'roll outfit, Djawadiwadi?

[Bilbo 3,709]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

 

Wasn't he in that 70s rock'n'roll outfit, Djawadiwadi?

He does seem like a guy with a rock rather than classical background. 

[gkgyver 1,646]

Giacchino isn't overrated. He comes up with great Themes. Some of the best actually.

 

Still Zimmer for me.

If recent can be stretched, Vangelis is a hot candidate.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Zimmer is far better then Gia. 

[Alex 2,835]

Zimmer's highlights stand out more than Giacchino's but Giacchino is far more consistent with his output 

[publicist 4,643]

That's is a left-handed compliment, y'know.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

On 16/09/2016 at 6:45 PM, Thor said:

in the wake of

 

This is where I stopped reading.

[Arpy 4,145]

Djawadi and Holkenborg (Junkie XL) Outside of JWFan, these guys might as well be gods of film scoring to casual listeners.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

And thus they're "overrated?"  What does that make "casual listeners" then?  Slobs who are less tasteful and informed than you are?  The reasons for their enjoyment of that music are mere aberrations, unworthy of being thought of as lending any significance and value to the music they are directed at?

 

Thank god we're safe from the masses here at JWFan!

[Arpy 4,145]

Casual listeners: i.e. the same people who call cues "songs" and the use of themes within those "songs" as "remixes". The kind of people who wouldn't give the music the time of day to replay other than, and probably exclusive to within the context of the show. Are they "Slobs"? No. Anecdotal as it may be, where I live film music enthusiasts are a rare breed with soundtrack albums retailed in select entertainment stores. The only association people have with film music is perhaps knowing what 'Main Title' of Star Wars sounds like, just a very rudimentary knowledge of other films main themes too. However, ask them what they remember from Game of Thrones as I have done to friends, friends of friends and relatives, they will tell you they thought the score for the entire show was brilliant but in fact they only remember one or two tracks.

 

They're overrated in the sense that here, at JWFan we can discuss, review and debate the successes of a film score, and we enjoy it, but someone who has seen a film or a show once or twice and wouldn't consider the score beyond the main title will write off more engaging and impressive works. I don't dislike either composer's work either, both have impressive range and suitability to the shows/films they're scoring. 

 

Why is it that here on JWFan Empire Strikes Back is a better score than Mad Max: Fury Road? Would there not be objective reasons?

 

Does this mean casual listeners are uneducated, foolish people, beneath us? No. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

And yet, that's all just a longer way of saying the same thing: that those of us here have some privileged frame of reference that allows us to better judge things (we love to trot out our theoretical and analytical skillz), as if there were any more important grounds on which to judge something than visceral emotional reaction.  Who lacks the capacity for that, whether a member here or otherwise?  This is the inherent problem with the word overrated, but we've all had this discussion before, I think.

[Lewya 360]

Junkie XL and Michael Giacchino.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How is Junkie XL overrated on JWFan, only 3 or 4 members like him. Often with some reservations.

[Lewya 360]

Not on JWfan, but I think that he is the most overrated composer right now together with Giacchino in general and especially by more casual listeners/movie-goers.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

So again we have someone who knows better than those pesky casual fans!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Holkenborg is Satan Incarnate, obviously! Just like Hans!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

Zimmer, but I would take out the word "recent".

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The most influential film composer since the Golden Age!

[Romão 2,274]

Zimmer knocks it out of the park every now and then. But the less scores we get from Junkie XL orRmain Djawadi, the better

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Typical anti-Dutch sentiments! 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

12 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The most influential film composer since the Golden Age!

 

Unfortunately, I agree 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So NOT overrated!

[Brónach 1,302]

On 5/26/2014 at 7:37 AM, publicist said:

Of course. Beltrami does not produce diamonds on a daily basis but he apart from the clunkers he often shows an artistic integrity AND isn't hyped like certain other composers on these lists. He does not deserve being trashed.

 

I love the complete score for Hellboy, and Soul Surfer.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

23 hours ago, Stefancos said:

So NOT overrated!

 

Someone can be both influential, and overrated. Even at the height of his powers, some people hated JW with a vengeance. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mentally Ill people? 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

Music, and film critics, mostly.

[Will 2,215]

On 9/19/2016 at 0:39 PM, Romão said:

Zimmer knocks it out of the park every now and then. But the less scores we get from Junkie XL orRmain Djawadi, the better

 

I'm sure you feel very excited about what Kobe will want for the short film knowing that he's a Djawadi fan. 

 

 

[Mephariel 451]

Marco Beltrami.

 

His underscore is so garbage. But Soul Surfer is great. 

[Schilkeman 964]

Hey, look at this old thread. 

 

I can't stand Giacchino, Desplat, or Zimmer, but Howard Shore has the biggest disparity, for me, between the praise he gets vs the actual quality of the music. Minutes upon minutes go by in LotR without anything interesting happening, and he has entire scores that are comprised of nothing but the boring underscore in those films. I think it's easy to get distracted by the 18 french horns in the Minas Tirith cue, or the beautiful solo voices and choirs, and not notice that very little is happening musically. 

 

I will now turn in my film score fanclub I.D. card and membership kit.

[Faleel 5,365]

3 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Hey, look at this old thread. 

 

I can't stand Giacchino, Desplat, or Zimmer, but Howard Shore has the biggest disparity, for me, between the praise he gets vs the actual quality of the music. Minutes upon minutes go by in LotR without anything interesting happening, and he has entire scores that are comprised of nothing but the boring underscore in those films. I think it's easy to get distracted by the 18 french horns in Minas Tirith cue, or the beautiful solo voices and choirs, and not notice that very little is happening musically. 

I disagree. There is so much going on emotionally.

 

At least for me.

[Schilkeman 964]

5 minutes ago, Signals said:

I disagree. There is so much going on emotionally.

 

At least for me.

For me, the music has to be interesting before I can invest in it emotionally. Shore just doesn't have as much going on in that regard, again, for me. I know Shore will not miss my fandom, but he's an option in the poll, so I answered my truth.

[Mephariel 451]

Can't agree with LOTR. One of the great achievements in film music. But I agree Shore in general is overrated. Besides LOTR, I honestly do not think his resume is that impressive. Not even The Hobbit scores.

[Faleel 5,365]

2 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 But I agree Shore in general is overrated. Besides LOTR, I honestly do not think his resume is that impressive.

This I can sort of understand/agree with though. (Not the Hobbit part though, at least not AUJ)

[Loert 2,515]

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Howard Shore has the biggest disparity, for me, between the praise he gets vs the actual quality of the music. Minutes upon minutes go by in LotR without anything interesting happening, and he has entire scores that are comprised of nothing but the boring underscore in those films. I think it's easy to get distracted by the 18 french horns in the Minas Tirith cue, or the beautiful solo voices and choirs, and not notice that very little is happening musically. 

 

I will now turn in my film score fanclub I.D. card and membership kit.

 

Thank god, I thought I was the only one!

 

I do like the scores to some degree (they set the tone very well at least), but to say that they are the greatest film scores in history just seems insane to me.

 

I actually get more enjoyment from Se7en, which just sounds more unusual and interesting to me.

 

I disagree about HZ though...perhaps his more recent work is a bit overrated but still I wouldn't hesitate in calling him a genius.

[Alex 2,835]

I would like to jump on this Shore is overrated bandwagon

[GerateWohl 4,384]

Never saw this thread before. And I won't vote.

But I find the pre-selection of these four composers interesting.

Probably Hans Zimmer was chosen by most people because in public it appears, that he has the highest rating of these four, therefore overrating can happen more easy and it doesn't necessarily mean, that he is a worse composer than the others.

 

[Schilkeman 964]

Yes the real answer is Danny Elfman

[Jurassic Shark 12,095]

4 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Never saw this thread before. And I won't vote.

 

We all know what the answer is anyway.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,556]

Yeah, it's Jahn Williams 

 

He's in the yahd, not too fah from the cah. How's that?

[TolkienSS 407]

In order for a composer to be overrated, he'd have to be rated above a baseline rate for similar composers, be showered with constant praise and attention despite uninspired and repetitive efforts, and come up in conversations about comparing great composers.

 

I can't see how any of that applies to Howard Shore. He was a mostly unknown film composer until his score for Silence Of The Lambs got recognition because of its approach and association with a great film. Then he got the appreciation and laurels he deserved for the LotR achievement, after which he remained mostly a composer for directors he knew, and, despite a few big budget pics like Aviator and Twilight, stayed true to the genres and lower tier films he had worked on before his Academy Awards. With the exception of The Hobbit, for which he did not in fact get the big praise you think he did, he didn't have a significantly different film scoring career than before LotR.

 

None of the phases in his career were/are accompanied with significantly more attention and critical praise than they deserved, he's working more on streaming things and his concert music now, he is barely mentioned in film scoring conversations anymore, his thread on this board is dead, and despite LotR and The Hobbit, he got sidelined for Rings of Power in favor of Bear McCreary.

 

So it's hard to see why exactly Howard Shore is "overrated".

 

You confuse your opinion of LotR being overrated with him being overrated as a composer in general.

 

Aside from LotR, he's a strong contender for most underrated.

[GerateWohl 4,384]

I think, Shore already received wider recognition with The Fly.

[Schilkeman 964]

4 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

You confuse your opinion of LotR being overrated with him being overrated as a composer in general.

As far as I’m aware, Howard Shore wrote the music to LotR, and he also won two (unprecedented) Academy Awards for his work on those films. The fact that there is a whole section of this site, a John Williams fan site, devoted solely to Tolkien has, I am sure, nothing to do with the love people have for those scores.

 

Howard Shore IS the LotR soundtrack, and as such, I stand by my statement that the music is often uninteresting and overrated, as is its composer, having composed said music.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think in 2003 Don Davis had a better achievement

[Edmilson 7,475]

One composer who wrote many classic scores but I never could get into is Maurice Jarre. His themes for Lawrence of Arabia and Dr Zhivago are great, of course, but the scores as a whole are just... okay? 

 

And of course his many electronic scores from the 80s and 90s sound horribly cheesy and dated today. 

[TolkienSS 407]

39 minutes ago, Brónach said:

I think in 2003 Don Davis had a better achievement

 

The Matrix killed Don Davis' career.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Huh?

 

Didn't taking years out to compose Rio De Sangre kill his career?

[TolkienSS 407]

29 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Huh?

 

Didn't taking years out to compose Rio De Sangre kill his career?

 

He didn't have the previous name value to survive two such big sequels that ended up failing so hard.

[Brónach 1,302]

it's funny, those two movies are better than return of the king too.

 

maybe being based on everything but adapting nothing is a comfy position to be in.