Thor 7,506 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 No doubt the original film recording is the superior performance, but in that case, another set of criteria will come in play for me: Performance vs. sound quality. I think, ultimately, sound quality would win out and the Elfman would still come out on top, despite an effort to "clean up" the original. I would be curious to hear what Williams would or could add to a Bernstein adaptation, if anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 20 hours ago, Thor said: No doubt the original film recording is the superior performance, but in that case, another set of criteria will come in play for me: Performance vs. sound quality. I think, ultimately, sound quality would win out and the Elfman would still come out on top, despite an effort to "clean up" the original. Intrada finally released a magnificently sounding remastering of North by Northwest some years ago, and as you know Psycho was made just after NBNW. Since the master tapes do exist, it's not impossible to have the score released in greatly improved sound in the future. Unless the tapes have deteriorated... All releases up to this point have come from the foul LP release, which sounds like it was recorded in the early 40s and not 20 years later. Edit: @Thor, I just became aware that two tracks from the original master tapes of Psycho have recently been released on a 7" single: Prelude and The Murder. A complete CD release will hopefully come soon... https://store.stylotone.com/products/psycho-7-single Here's the Prelude. That's a greatly improved sound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 An arranging job does need to be done. While the music and orchestrations don't necessarily need to change, the lengths of the songs and underscore may very well need to. You don't always have complete versions of songs int he film adaptations, so some songs will likely be shortened. Some underscore may need to extended. Things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, Joe Brausam said: An arranging job does need to be done. While the music and orchestrations don't necessarily need to change, the lengths of the songs and underscore may very well need to. You don't always have complete versions of songs int he film adaptations, so some songs will likely be shortened. Some underscore may need to extended. Things like that. Absolutely. It's curious to note that for the Film Concert Live presentation of the 1961 film version, the score was actually reconstructed and rearranged (under the supervision of Leonard Bernstein's Estate) to be closer to the original Broadway score. Lenny never liked the beefed up orchestrations of the film version, so I guess JW or whoever will work on the new film will stay as close as possibile to Bernstein's original score. Miguel Andrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Interesting! I didn't realize they made those adjustments for the Film Concert version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Anybody knows why Bernstein didn't do the film arrangement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 After On the Waterfront, Lenny didn't want to have anything to do with Hollywood producers. Plus, back then he was in full force as Music Director of the NYPhil, so it's likely he wasn't available to do it. Jurassic Shark and Miguel Andrade 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted January 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2018 JW: "Steve, you really need someone better, to score this film". SS: "I know John, but he died in 1990". Score, Jurassic Shark and JWMike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: Absolutely. It's curious to note that for the Film Concert Live presentation of the 1961 film version, the score was actually reconstructed and rearranged (under the supervision of Leonard Bernstein's Estate) to be closer to the original Broadway score. Lenny never liked the beefed up orchestrations of the film version, so I guess JW or whoever will work on the new film will stay as close as possibile to Bernstein's original score. The full score of the original Broadway orchestration is available for sale, published by Boosey & Hawkes (a wonderful score, by the way). The ensemble requires, for example, 7 violins, 4 cellos, 1 contrabass (no violas), and only 5 woodwind players who alternate several instruments, as usual in theater productions. I'm not familiar with the film score, but I guess an arrangement for the Spielberg version could consist in enlarging the ensemble to a full orchestra (I would be against it), and/or altering a bit the (few) underscore cues, while leaving the main numbers unchanged. Other than that, I don't see what else they could do without completely altering the mood of the piece. I would be happy if they just used the original Broadway score to make a full re-recording and fit the movie to that. In this case, I would really be very interested to hear JW's take at conducting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: How do you mean this was "out of respect"? Did Koussevitzky hate musicals? Yes. 4 hours ago, TownerFan said: Daddy-O seems to be influenced more by the jazzy sound of "the other Bernstein" (Elmer). I'm sure JW always had Lenny in high esteem. I mean, he was a towering figure since the early 1950s for any musician. I always found some Lenny-inspired moments in JW's early concert piece "Prelude and Fugue", btw. Lenny's Prelude, Fugue and Riffs always seemed to me as a starting point for Williams' Prelude and Fugue. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Score said: The full score of the original Broadway orchestration is available for sale, published by Boosey & Hawkes (a wonderful score, by the way). The ensemble requires, for example, 7 violins, 4 cellos, 1 contrabass (no violas), and only 5 woodwind players who alternate several instruments, as usual in theater productions. I'm not familiar with the film score, but I guess an arrangement for the Spielberg version could consist in enlarging the ensemble to a full orchestra (I would be against it), and/or altering a bit the (few) underscore cues, while leaving the main numbers unchanged. Other than that, I don't see what else they could do without completely altering the mood of the piece. I would be happy if they just used the original Broadway score to make a full re-recording and fit the movie to that. In this case, I would really be very interested to hear JW's take at conducting it! He's already conducted selections from West Side Story: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 While Bernstein might have not been too happy with the "Hollywoodization" of his work, he had high praise for the orchestral adaptation of his Mass commissioned by Arthur Fiedler. Fiedler did a whole record with that one (also includes the Overture to Candide), and the Simple Song section was recorded again by Williams on Bernstein by Boston. On the later release, no credit went to the arranger, who was Irwin Kostal. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Speaking of which, I recently got a turntable from my dad, along with several LPs from his vast collection. Among them was an album from WEST SIDE STORY, but is this the one where Williams performs (uncredited)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: He's already conducted selections from West Side Story: I'm fairly sure the "Selections" heard here is an orchestral arrangement done by one of Pops' arrangers of the days, could be Sid Ramin or Richard Hayman. It's the same arrangement JW performed when touring with the Pops in Japan in 1993. Strangely enough he chose this (rather uninteresting) chart instead of going for the classic Symphonic Dances. 1 minute ago, Thor said: Speaking of which, I recently got a turntable from my dad, along with several LPs from his vast collection. Among them was an album from WEST SIDE STORY, but is this the one where Williams performs (uncredited)? No, this is the original Broadway Cast recording (and imho the best ever done, albeit incomplete). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, TownerFan said: I'm fairly sure the "Selections" heard here is an orchestral arrangement done by one of Pops' arrangers of the days, could be Sid Ramin or Richard Hayman. It's the same arrangement JW performed when touring with the Pops in Japan in 1993. Strangely enough he chose this (rather uninteresting) chart instead of going for the classic Symphonic Dances. Surely it's an arrangement, but at least we have some indication of how he would conduct the original arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I don't know, this is more like a concert medley arranged and performed in typical Pops fashion. There's nothing wrong with it, of course, but it serves a different purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if JW would like to involve someone like Gustavo Dudamel for this Spielberg production, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 3 hours ago, TownerFan said: No, this is the original Broadway Cast recording (and imho the best ever done, albeit incomplete). Damn, I'd hoped I inadvertantly got the one with Williams. Oh well, it's still a great album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Thor said: Damn, I'd hoped I inadvertantly got the one with Williams. Oh well, it's still a great album. The original cast recording is the real deal, a musical gift from the gods, just close your eyes and listen. However, the later LP of the film was in so many people's collections, you should have no problem finding a copy of that one as well. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 10 hours ago, TownerFan said: I'm fairly sure the "Selections" heard here is an orchestral arrangement done by one of Pops' arrangers of the days, could be Sid Ramin or Richard Hayman. It's the same arrangement JW performed when touring with the Pops in Japan in 1993. Strangely enough he chose this (rather uninteresting) chart instead of going for the classic Symphonic Dances. Those “Selections” are a standard school arrangement. I even remember playing it in high school! It’s Jack Mason…I don’t know who that is. But, yeah, I doubt it’s indicative of how Williams would handle the material. https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/west-side-story-selections-for-orchestra-sheet-music/4174580 TownerFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I believe Jack Mason was a regular arranger for the Boston Pops during the Fiedler era. aviazn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 What is the best sounding CD version (or the one to get) of the album where Williams performed on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 This one: https://www.amazon.com/West-Story-Original-Soundtrack-Recording/dp/B00002MVH7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, TownerFan said: This one: https://www.amazon.com/West-Story-Original-Soundtrack-Recording/dp/B00002MVH7 That's the 1997 release. What about the 50th anniversary remastered release? Have anybody done a comparison? https://www.amazon.co.uk/West-Side-Story-50th-Anniversary/dp/B00826QLOS/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1517390819&sr=1-4&keywords=west+side+story+soundtrack+sony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC4L 87 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Intrigued by the film. Hope Williams is involved. Can't wait for Indy 5 either. and this thread (like so many here) needs so much less of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 What, two women bitch-slapping each other. No! It needs a lot more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedwig 5 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gustavo-dudamel-conduct-score-west-side-story-1211638 Pretty weird that John Williams appears to be having zero involvement with this project? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 If they are using Bernstein's music, why would they need Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 To add more xylophone! Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Hedwig said: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gustavo-dudamel-conduct-score-west-side-story-1211638 Pretty weird that John Williams appears to be having zero involvement with this project? It simply comes down to conflict of scheduling. The Maestro will begin conducting and recording Star Wars in June. David Newman is involved with pre-recordings for West Side Story, which would take place around the same time. Gustavo Dudamel will be conducting West Side Story, with Newman steping in to conduct as needed only when Dudamel is not available in post production. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 If I was Newman, I would insist on conducting the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Seems very weird, so they're splitting conducting duties between the composer and Dudamel? Strikes me as a Williams recommendation, in any event. But yeah, you'd have thought he'd guest conduct a few cues or something but he must have zero interest. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 JW could very well turn up as a guest conductor on this one - we'll just have to wait and see. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 He’ll probably visit at least. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Or at least he might drop by to use the toilet. crumbs and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Might be worth recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Yeah, Hanz could incorporate it when it's time to update his sample library! _deleted_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 4 hours ago, crumbs said: Seems very weird, so they're splitting conducting duties between the composer and Dudamel? Strikes me as a Williams recommendation, in any event. Arranger, the composer Leonard Bernstein is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_deleted_ 203 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 1:45 AM, Jurassic Shark said: Yeah, Hanz could incorporate it when it's time to update his sample library! West Side Story in D minor Jurassic Shark and ocelot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojoju2000 20 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Super late, but apparently in the book detailing the making of the Film, it seems as if JW served as a Music Consultant back in 2019.... Bayesian and ConorPower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarps 217 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I can imagine “music consultant” means he recommended Dudamel to Spielberg to conduct the score. Which in my opinion is the wrong choice. I remember Dudamel’s recent JW Celebration DG album and it was awful.. so been a Dudamel sceptic since then. Saw his Rite of Spring at the Barbican Centre pre covid and it was v much average. Hoping I don’t have too many qualms with the WSS remake soundtrack crumbs and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,367 Posted November 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2021 According to Film Music Reporter, John Williams is providing liner notes for the physical CD edition of the OST album. Once, crumbs and mrbellamy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 So that's why he didn't have time to adapt the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,287 Posted November 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2021 Had another one of those thread title scares when I caught "Steven Spielberg is Officially Re..." on my browser lol Jay, Edmilson, ragoz350 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Reinventing himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Dudamel’s recent JW Celebration DG album was awful? Really? Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 hours ago, mrbellamy said: Had another one of those thread title scares when I caught "Steven Spielberg is Officially Re..." on my browser lol The last starfighter... is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Jay said: According to Film Music Reporter, John Williams is providing liner notes for the physical CD edition of the OST album. Music Consultant and providing the liner notes for the CD. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Surprised @p0llux did not post this here: This book just arrived and there were a few excerpts from John Williams, David Newman, and Gustavo Dudamel about their involvement with West Side Story. In addition to being Music Consultant AND writing liner notes for the CD, wouldn’t it have been funny if the Maestro was asked to guest conduct one of the pieces? I’m still happy the Maestro had some involvement in this adaptation. I look forward to seeing it. p0llux and Bayesian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 I just hope that somewhere, there will be at least a mention of Williams being involved in the original film and/or album as pianist. There is none that I can see in the book excerpt above (which was also posted in another thread recently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Who would have thought that JW would change career to booklet writer in his twilight years. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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