JacksonElmore 69 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, Erik Woods said: Yes, Williams can do whatever he wants with the tempo and my criticism wasn't with Williams' tempo... this time. My criticism is with the the orchestra being somewhat unfamiliar with Williams style of conducting, which is something that could have thrown off the orchestra. The Star Wars performance isn't the only performance with certain instruments coming in early, late, dragging, speeding up. Understandable criticism. I suppose I was reacting rather harshly because outside of these forums most people unfortunately do not understand that live symphonic music isn't designed to replicate an idealistic blueprint. Besides MAJOR flubs (Like the SW main title one from this concert), the spontaneity of a live orchestra is part of what makes it beautiful for me, similarly to jazz. My overwhelmingly positive reaction to this concert comes from A) The AMAZING sound the brass section is able to conjure, the overall sound quality of it all and B) How this performance compares as a whole to seeing many other orchestra's adjust to williams' approach much, much worse. apart from that, when it comes to mutter, she is an amazing performer and I really dig her shit I just REALLY wish we could have gotten the original arrangement of hedwigs theme conducted by John in such great quality by such a great sounding orchestra. Really appreciate her artistry but for my own selfish and irrational reasons I would have loved to hear that piece the way it originally belonged. Anyway, absolutely can't wait for this DVD and hope it is going to be available on itunes to buy, so I don't have to RIP it Erik Woods and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Erik Woods said: No one said it had to be mathematically perfect but when the brass is playing the main melody to Star Wars a few bars behind everyone else it's noticeable and distracting. They are professional orchestra and to some considered one of the best in the world therefore the standards are high. Unfortunately, this sort of performance is below their standards. That a fair assessment and criticism. Yes, Williams can do whatever he wants with the tempo and my criticism wasn't with Williams' tempo... this time. My criticism is with the the orchestra being somewhat unfamiliar with Williams style of conducting, which is something that could have thrown off the orchestra. The Star Wars performance isn't the only performance with certain instruments coming in early, late, dragging, speeding up. -Erik- PS - Heres hoping that we can all be adults around here by refraining from childish insults just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion. Seriously, brow up! BTW, this wasn't aimed at you, Jackson. "Brass is playing star wars theme few BARS behind everyone else!!" A great comment. Very professional😎 Stay classy Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 35 minutes ago, JacksonElmore said: Understandable criticism. I suppose I was reacting rather harshly because outside of these forums most people unfortunately do not understand that live symphonic music isn't designed to replicate an idealistic blueprint. Besides MAJOR flubs (Like the SW main title one from this concert), the spontaneity of a live orchestra is part of what makes it beautiful for me, similarly to jazz. My overwhelmingly positive reaction to this concert comes from A) The AMAZING sound the brass section is able to conjure, the overall sound quality of it all and B) How this performance compares as a whole to seeing many other orchestra's adjust to williams' approach much, much worse. apart from that, when it comes to mutter, she is an amazing performer and I really dig her shit I just REALLY wish we could have gotten the original arrangement of hedwigs theme conducted by John in such great quality by such a great sounding orchestra. Really appreciate her artistry but for my own selfish and irrational reasons I would have loved to hear that piece the way it originally belonged. Anyway, absolutely can't wait for this DVD and hope it is going to be available on itunes to buy, so I don't have to RIP it I'm a big proponent of re-recordings so I appreciate different interpretations of film music. The sound quality is definitely incredible on this new recording and while I don't think the orchestra nailed every single piece, their interpretations of others ranged from very well done to exceptional. I don't disagree that Mutter is extremely talented. That's evidant, but there is something about her playing/technique that just doesn't gel with me. She's very jagged and harsh in her bowing and that produces a sound that sometimes calls negative attention to her and the piece overall. I guess I'm just so used to listen to Perlman, for instance, perform and record with Williams. I find he has a more restraint, passion and a gentler touch. Having ssaid that, I can't blame it all on Mutter as some of Williams arrangements seem overly busy and showy and don't necessarily do justice or complement the original work (ie - Harry Potter as you mentioned) Thanks for the thoughtful and polite discussion. Cheers, -Erik- Jay and JacksonElmore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonElmore 69 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, Erik Woods said: Thanks for the thoughtful and polite discussion. We’re on the same page my friend . I also agree about mutters style, especially when she does try to slow down and be “emotional” it seems very...fake. Also, atrocious interviewer! But I suppose that isn’t her job lol. I thoroughly enjoyed her in the Tintin piece. I think that is a great piece where she really fits Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Erik Woods said: I don't disagree that Mutter is extremely talented. That's evident, but there is something about her playing/technique that just doesn't gel with me. She's very jagged and harsh in her bowing and that produces a sound that sometimes calls negative attention to her and the piece overall. I guess I'm just so used to listen to Perlman, for instance, perform and record with Williams. I find he has a more restraint, passion and a gentler touch. Having ssaid that, I can't blame it all on Mutter as some of Williams arrangements seem overly busy and showy and don't necessarily do justice or complement the original work (ie - Harry Potter as you mentioned) I really like that exact quality of her playing, but I like everything in my orchestras to be a little rough around the edges. It is a preference thing. I have a friend who made the exact same comments as you, even down to naming Perlman. It's totally valid. Violinists are very individualized. I also like the arrangements because of their busy-ness. I think that version of Leia's Theme is better than the original, though that is the only arrangement I would say that about. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Erik Woods 555 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 That's fair enough, blondheim. We all have different opinions and thank you for expressing yours. At least I didn't call you an idiot! -Erik- blondheim, Jay and Joni Wiljami 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Erik Woods said: That's fair enough, blondheim. We all have different opinions and thank you for expressing yours. At least I didn't call you an idiot! -Erik- Hahaha, I love a different opinion! It is what makes any of this worth it. It is also what will get us more of this kind of music. We need varied demand. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonElmore 69 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 The thing I love about the jaggedness of Her playing is that Williams loves it. I honestly would not have expected that musical pairing, and it provides even more diversity into his taste and his writing. Also seeing Williams gush over anybody makes whatever the thing is worth it blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, blondheim said: I really like that exact quality of her playing, but I like everything in my orchestras to be a little rough around the edges. It is a preference thing. I have a friend who made the exact same comments as you, even down to naming Perlman. It's totally valid. Violinists are very individualized. I also like the arrangements because of their busy-ness. I think that version of Leia's Theme is better than the original, though that is the only arrangement I would say that about. I prefer the ASM version of Dracula's Night Journeys, actually blondheim and Miguel Andrade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,673 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Romão said: I prefer the ASM version of Dracula's Night Journeys, actually I think that is the best arrangement of the bunch--could easily serve as the first or last movement of a top-tier violin concerto. The Duel is my second favorite, followed by Cinderella Liberty. The rest are nice but pale in comparison to their original counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Re: the arrangement of Leia's theme on ATS, something about Mutter's contributions seem really moving and empowering. It is probably the synergy of having a female violinist. I think John Williams clearly cared for Carrie Fisher very much. He gave her not one, but essentially three themes. I am currently writing a paper about his treatment of Leia, especially in The Last Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 10 hours ago, JacksonElmore said: I just REALLY wish we could have gotten the original arrangement of hedwigs theme conducted by John in such great quality by such a great sounding orchestra This. I can barely listen to any piece with Mutter. No matter how talented she is. I'm just not into classical stuff like this. Nonetheless, haven't listen to the stream, patiently waiting for the Blu-ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Fuck, so much negativity for this arrangement of Hedwig's Theme. Get over it, go listen to the soundtrack! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 It's a magnificent arrangement! eitam, blondheim and Falstaft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 It, Night Journeys, Leia and The Duel are my favourites on the album! In this order probably. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 I am also definitely a fan of Mutter, her playing and of Williams’ new arrangements for her. It’s funny to me how they seem to turn a lot of JWfaners off now that the honeymoon period since releasing Across The Stars is over. But maybe the negative criticism was there from the beginning, nothing wrong with that. Possibly I’m misremembering. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 My favorite part of the new Hedwig's theme arrangement is how he weaves in the witchy McGonagoll medley. It just feels so right, like that was its manifest destiny. Williams never ceases to amaze me with these unexpected little touches. My expectations are never exactly what he gives me, thank heavens. He is still unpredictable. At his age, that is such an acheivement and makes him one of the obvious and undeniable greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTheHouseelf 324 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, blondheim said: My favorite part of the new Hedwig's theme arrangement is how he weaves in the witchy McGonagoll medley What is the witchy McGonagoll medley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 When the students come upon her outside the Great Hall, there is a wonderful, slithery violin line that is re-purposed here. MaxTheHouseelf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Across the Stars is a fantastic album! Aside from when the arrangements are too similar to their originals or when the solo violin doesn't add much to the piece, the album is a great success. I love JW revisiting his own music and highlighting a world-class musician. The Duel, Hedwig's Theme, Leia's Theme, Nice to be Around, Night Journeys, and Markings are all wonderful. On a side note, could you imagine how weird it would have been for the Jurassic Park theme to receive a ASM violin arrangement? Or the Imperial March?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,378 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 4:56 PM, moi said: Idiot Hey Hornist, on this forum you are absolutely welcome to disagree with other's opinions and state so as much as you want, but we don't allow personal insults. Respond to opinions and share your own, but don't insult other members. Thank you. Remco, Joni Wiljami and Erik Woods 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks @Jay. It’s really annoying that, even while I loved the concerts and recordings, I can’t express one issue I have with Williams’ recent conducting on this forum. You all act like I’m crazy, but the fact is that his stability and sense of tempo stability has become somewhat disturbed. This has nothing to do with how symphonic music should or shouldn’t sound in a live setting, it’s simply a weakness and one that at times comes across as slightly unprofessional. And it doesn’t matter whether it’s the VPO, the HSS when they’re not on clicktrack, or any other American orchestra. You can hear the same problem everywhere. Now whether you’re bothered by it is a totally different issue and I’m happy most people don’t seem to mind. But I am not an idiot for noticing it. Joni Wiljami and Erik Woods 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 I very much enjoyed reading different people's thoughts on how JW conducted this concert, and how the musicians played. Keep it coming! Everyone should always feel welcome to share their opinions on any subject at hand JacksonElmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 18 hours ago, Remco said: And it doesn’t matter whether it’s the VPO, the HSS when they’re not on clicktrack, or any other American orchestra. You can hear the same problem everywhere. You find his tempi to fluctuate also when using a clicktrack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 I can't vouch for Williams' conducting. But the resulting tempos in the Vienna concerts, except for a few moments where a tempo change took parts of the orchestra by surprise (and the odd ending of The Rebellion is Reborn were perfectly fine and far more stable than that shaky Dudamel album. Gurkensalat, blondheim and Miguel Andrade 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fabulin 3,515 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 Now that we have established that the conductor was bad, the orchestra was bad, and the soloist was bad, the only thing that has not yet been criticized are the hall acoustics. MikeH, Ricard, Martinland and 5 others 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 I am thrilled with this album. I was thrilled with Across the Stars. Any new Williams album at this point is a gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Now that we have established that the conductor was bad, the orchestra was bad, and the soloist was bad, the only thing that has not yet been criticized are the hall acoustics. I've criticised the hall acoustics (or conductors and orchestras not handling them well) in the past. I've also said that Williams with the Wiener Philharmoniker was one of the best sounding concerts I've heard there. blondheim, Gurkensalat, Miguel Andrade and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Jay said: Hey Hornist, on this forum you are absolutely welcome to disagree with other's opinions and state so as much as you want, but we don't allow personal insults. Respond to the opinions and share your own, but don't insult other members. Thank you. Well I lost my temper because of these stupid and nasty comments about a legendary composer/human being, who happens to be almost 90 years old and this was my dream-come-true-concert I luckily could attend, loved it and still treasure it. Some arrogant comments by people who basically have no idea of a live performance or the magic of that precious night are laughable and I never will back off in this so I hope you will ban me for good from this hypocrite forum. Have a nice guarantine you all, I still love you. PS. send me videos when you are conducting Vienna orc at age 88 I will bash the fucking tempos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Nobody is taking away your assessment of the concert or the man, simply stating their own observations. Different opinions are a good thing! Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, moi said: Well I lost my temper because of these stupid and nasty comments about a legendary composer/human being, who happens to be almost 90 years old and this was my dream-come-true-concert I luckily could attend, loved it and still treasure it. Some arrogant comments by people who basically have no idea of a live performance or the magic of that precious night are laughable and I never will back off in this so I hope you will ban me for good from this hypocrite forum. Have a nice guarantine you all, I still love you. PS. send me videos when you are conducting Vienna orc at age 88 I will bash the fucking tempos Lost? Seems like you may still be losing it there, bub. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, blondheim said: Lost? Seems like you may still be losing it there, bub. Yes and therefore asked nicely if Jay could ban me. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minority report 1 13 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 hours ago, moi said: Well I lost my temper because of these stupid and nasty comments about a legendary composer/human being, who happens to be almost 90 years old and this was my dream-come-true-concert I luckily could attend, loved it and still treasure it. Some arrogant comments by people who basically have no idea of a live performance or the magic of that precious night are laughable and I never will back off in this so I hope you will ban me for good from this hypocrite forum. Have a nice guarantine you all, I still love you. PS. send me videos when you are conducting Vienna orc at age 88 I will bash the fucking tempos Oh dear you are funny, Not another in the audience who was bleary eyed over every note, If the same concert had had another conductor there would have been similar comments ...10 fold bollemanneke, Joni Wiljami and Erik Woods 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I noticed that Amazon pushed back the release of the Blu-Ray set to October 2, 2020. Hopefully, the producers are taking the additional time to make some improvements, such as picking the best performances (across the two concerts) and polishing the overall sound mix. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 17 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: You also find his tempi to fluctuate also when using a clicktrack? No of course not, I said when they’re not on a clicktrack. I.e. Scherzo for X-Wings concert version. Also I find there’s usually no problem either with slow pieces, or pieces that need a healthy dose of rubato in the first place such as Leia’s theme, where there’s always a sort of speeding up or slowing down towards a new section. It’s mostly in fast-paced pieces that need to have a stable energy throughout. The best way to describe it I think, maybe, is that when he conducts this music the changes in musical tension go along with changes in tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The concert video was finished months ago and the stream is the same thing we're getting on disc. The delay is only due to manufacturing delays of the physical product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawel P. 738 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Well, there is no delay in Europe. The release date is still August 14. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 It's a too highbrow release anyway over the pond. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Are the people complaining about the conductor, the orchestra, the soloist and the tempo American or European? Maybe that factors in to the release dates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 2:46 PM, artguy360 said: Across the Stars is a fantastic album! Aside from when the arrangements are too similar to their originals or when the solo violin doesn't add much to the piece, the album is a great success. I love JW revisiting his own music and highlighting a world-class musician. The Duel, Hedwig's Theme, Leia's Theme, Nice to be Around, Night Journeys, and Markings are all wonderful. I know it might sound like a sacrilege but I think the Mutter version of Princess Leia's theme might be actually better than the original. Williams took a perfect piece and somehow made it even better. It's just beautifully realised and performed. And her version of Rey's theme is better too. As for the Vienna concert, I am patiently waiting for the copies (one for me, one for my mum) to arrive so I can watch/listen for the first time. Delayed or not, I'm happy to wait. Karol blondheim and Miguel Andrade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Minority report 1 said: Oh dear you are funny, Not another in the audience who was bleary eyed over every note, If the same concert had had another conductor there would have been similar comments ...10 fold Oh dear you are stupid. A newest member of the institute of philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Last warning horinst: Respond to other people opinions without insulting the person, or you get banned. Erik Woods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 And you do not see that comment I answered insulting? "oh dear you are funny" and the rest of it... blaah blaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, crocodile said: I know it might sound like a sacrilege but I think the Mutter version of Princess Leia's theme might be actually better than the original. Williams took a perfect piece and somehow made it even better. It's just beautifully realised and performed. I agree, although it's not even that much about the new arrangement (which is pretty much straightforwardly taken from the original version, and apparently it's not even clear how much of it Williams did himself), but the interpretation is probably the best I know. The climax is magnificent. 1 hour ago, crocodile said: And her version of Rey's theme is better too. It did some getting used to, but once I was, the original version did seem a bit unenergetic in comparison. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: I agree, although it's not even that much about the new arrangement (which is pretty much straightforwardly taken from the original version, and apparently it's not even clear how much of it Williams did himself), but the interpretation is probably the best I know. The climax is magnificent. What do you mean? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Ghostwriters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, moi said: Ghostwriters I am a ghostwriter, I wrote E.T. from the end to the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, Bespin said: I am a ghostwriter, I wrote E.T. from the end to the beginning. Oh it is you to blame that last 16 minutes was disappointing!!! Too many notes Out of tempo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Blame it on Spielberg editing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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