Popular Post Biodome 714 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 Fabulin, Bespin, crlbrg and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I didn't know you're an artist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 13 hours ago, rough cut said: On another note, I was visiting Spain over the holidays and guess what was on national TV (channel “La 2”) on Christmas Day... John Williams In Vienna! (Photo from my hotel room 😊) It was also on tonight on Portuguese TV rough cut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 22 hours ago, rough cut said: People should be allowed to have an opinion and like what they like - or don’t like what they don’t like - but at some point you have to “read the room” and make peace with that you have made your point. Yup, and that goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2020 23 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Some people are tired of the Emperor's-new-clothes mentally pervading this thread. Not at all. I'd welcome more nuanced remarks from you, especially about music. No, sorry, this attitude is the reason why I almost never join discussions here, other than the fact that there are people expressing opinions similar to mine in much better, more concise way than I do. I frankly don't understand the reason why you (and others) continue to tout your horns about how disgraceful this recording is to your ears immediately right after someone says something positive about it. Of course discussion is healthy, but it's not when it's rounding in circles and repeating the same stuff over and over again, adding even conspiracy theories about Williams' health to spice up your arguments, which I find borderline offensive, not because Williams is sacred territory, but because it's just baseless speculation brought forward to prove your points. You think this recording/concert wasn't up to your standards and expectations? That's fine, you said why and explained yourself pretty clearly. Others don't agree with you and brought arguments to their positions. Let's move on. 12-Mile Reef, Miguel Andrade, Jay and 6 others 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2020 7 hours ago, TownerFan said: No, sorry, this attitude is the reason why I almost never join discussions here, other than the fact that there are people expressing opinions similar to mine in much better, more concise way than I do. I frankly don't understand the reason why you (and others) continue to tout your horns about how disgraceful this recording is to your ears immediately right after someone says something positive about it. Of course discussion is healthy, but it's not when it's rounding in circles and repeating the same stuff over and over again, adding even conspiracy theories about Williams' health to spice up your arguments, which I find borderline offensive, not because Williams is sacred territory, but because it's just baseless speculation brought forward to prove your points. You think this recording/concert wasn't up to your standards and expectations? That's fine, you said why and explained yourself pretty clearly. Others don't agree with you and brought arguments to their positions. Let's move on. I'm sorry, I'm not accepting this. You seem intent on interpreting everything I write in the most offensive way possible. But, as you state yourself, you only come here to read opinions that are similar to your own. I'll never understand such narrow minded attitude. When I wrote about JW's health, that was based on my reaction when I first watched footage from the VPO concerts, and I've since been wondering whether possible health issues affected the concert. I could probably have elaborated better my thoughts about this. I though he looked somewhat reduced, and not entirely up to the task. He also looked confused now and then, and I wager I'm not the only one who's made that observation. Do I write this because I like that one of my heroes is in decline? Of course not. However, not writing about difficult things does not make them go away. And it's not like I've been spamming this thread with my observations about his health. It's limited to a few posts, and I think I made it clear I was expressing a subjective opinion. Dismissing this as a conspiracy theory is the worst kind of suppression techniques. Mr. Blue, Ricard and Joni Wiljami 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/26/2020 at 8:43 PM, Jurassic Shark said: Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health. This absolutely is just conspiracy theory stuff, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Holko said: This absolutely is just conspiracy theory stuff, mate. Nope, it's clearly a subjective theory. I'm not presenting it as fact. Mr. Blue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_klein 1 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/27/2020 at 1:10 PM, rough cut said: On another note, I was visiting Spain over the holidays and guess what was on national TV (channel “La 2”) on Christmas Day... John Williams In Vienna! (Photo from my hotel room 😊) Hi all, you have available the "La 2" concert of John williams in Vienna until Januray, 24, 2021: Los conciertos de la 2: Orquesta Filarmónica de Viena: Especial John Williams Only 1 hour 28 min, I don't know why. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: I'm sorry, I'm not accepting this. You seem intent on interpreting everything I write in the most offensive way possible. But, as you state yourself, you only come here to read opinions that are similar to your own. I'll never understand such narrow minded attitude. When I wrote about JW's health, that was based on my reaction when I first watched footage from the VPO concerts, and I've since been wondering whether possible health issues affected the concert. I could probably have elaborated better my thoughts about this. I though he looked somewhat reduced, and not entirely up to the task. He also looked confused now and then, and I wager I'm not the only one who's made that observation. Do I write this because I like that one of my heroes is in decline? Of course not. However, not writing about difficult things does not make them go away. And it's not like I've been spamming this thread with my observations about his health. It's limited to a few posts, and I think I made it clear I was expressing a subjective opinion. Dismissing this as a conspiracy theory is the worst kind of suppression techniques. Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t come here only to read opinions that align to mine—I said that I don’t engage in discussion if there are already other people expressing opinions like mine much better than me. I’m not offended by what your write, I’m just annoyed at how pedantic you’re being to present it. I happen to like a lot the Vienna recordings for many reasons. I think your arguments are just nitpicking and I don’t agree with many of those, like other people already said well. But I understand that we’re talking about choices of interpretation, so it’s wildly subjective. I’m not here to suppress anything, of course you’re free to write whatever for as long as you want. But don’t bring your own wild speculation about JW’s health to add some kind of objective point to the fact you simply don’t like the recording, or the playing, or how JW chose to address tempi, or things like those—he was in unbelievably good shape, spry and joyful for a guy almost in his 90s. Miguel Andrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I love the Vienna Concert too. That's THE DVD we've waited for years! Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, TownerFan said: Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t come here only to read opinions that align to mine—I said that I don’t engage in discussion if there are already other people expressing opinions like mine much better than me. Then I misunderstood you and I'm sorry for that. 19 minutes ago, TownerFan said: I happen to like a lot the Vienna recordings for many reasons. I think your arguments are just nitpicking and I don’t agree with many of those. But I understand that we’re talking about choices of interpretation, so it’s wildly subjective. I’m not here to suppress anything, of course you’re free to write whatever for as long as you want. I obviously don't think I'm nitpicking. For some, flubs, timing issues and tempo fluctuations stand out quite badly when listening to the music. I hope you can understand that. Joni Wiljami and Remco 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 "disturbing"? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, TownerFan said: But don’t bring your own wild speculation about JW’s health to add some kind of objective point to the fact you simply don’t like the recording, or the playing, or how JW chose to address tempi, or things like those—he was in unbelievably good shape, spry and joyful for a guy almost in his 90s. I'm sorry, but playing JW's PR agent doesn't make you morally superior. I made it clear that my comments about his health were my own subjective theories. I don't at all share your assessment of how well JW appeared, based on the blu-ray. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I think a lot of y'all are being way too emotional about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jay said: "disturbing"? Really? Bad choice of word (direct translation from Norwegian). 3 minutes ago, SteveMc said: I think a lot of y'all are being way too emotional about this. I can't speak for the others, but I'm feeling quite calm and confident in my subjective views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I Find Your Lack of Vocabulary Disturbing Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Then I misunderstood you and I'm sorry for that. I obviously don't think I'm nitpicking. For some, flubs, timing issues and tempo fluctuations stand out quite badly when listening to the music. I hope you can understand that. It’s okay. I surely understand that some of those things might influence your enjoyment of music, that’s fine. I just don’t find those issues as major or bad as you continue to underline. I think the performance is overall grandiose and top-notch. But we have to agree to disagree. Let’s not pretend to find any kind of objective definitive statement about this. JW doesn’t need me as PR agent. But I’ll continue to remark that your theories about his health are completely off the charts. crumbs, Gurkensalat, Amer and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, TownerFan said: Let’s not pretend to find any kind of objective definitive statement about this. That's never been my aim either; you're the one who's been talking about objectivity. It's all a discussion where different people present their own opinions and interpretations, nothing more. But I have to say I find it strange that you pretend to have the knowledge of his personal doctor when it comes to his health. Chewy and Ricard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 If it's an argument between an American and an European. Let me tell you, the American will not have the last word. toothless and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: That's never been my aim either; you're the one who's been talking about objectivity. It's all a discussion where different people present their own opinions and interpretations, nothing more. But I have to say I find it strange that you pretend to have the knowledge of his personal doctor when it comes to his health. Yet you’re the one who continues to abhor any dissenting opinion, to the point where you said that people who attended the concert of course are just biased in their opinion. Discussing with you is as impossible as discussing with Thor; for people like you the point always becomes stating your own opinions over and over, and over, and over. It always comes to the point where the interlocutor is forced to say “Yeah, whatever” JW was in good shape as anyone who attended the concert and/or met him afterwards can testify. Anyway, I won’t continue in this discussion further, as it’s clear I’m already risking to become as pedantic as you. Gurkensalat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 19 hours ago, TownerFan said: Anyway, I won’t continue in this discussion further, as it’s clear I’m already risking to become as pedantic as you. No worries, you've proven you're the worthy winner of that contest. Just remember it's a discussion board, with subjective opinions. Nobody's pretending to hold the absolute truth, except you, that is. 19 hours ago, TownerFan said: Discussing with you is as impossible as discussing with Thor; for people like you the point always becomes stating your own opinions over and over, and over, and over. When you're intent on misinterpreting everything I write, don't be surprised that I elaborate on my points. Of course, you ignore the fact that I'm far from the only one who's been repeating some opinions in this thread, because you agree with them. 19 hours ago, TownerFan said: Yet you’re the one who continues to abhor any dissenting opinion, In that case you're not being any better. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 It’s okay, pal. Really, no hard feelings. I probably came out worse than I wanted. Let’s move on. Peace out ✌🏻 Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Peace and prosper. Btw, @Thor's a great guy if you can see past his differing opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,515 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,396 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Going on another topic, what does everyone think of the performance of the Star Wars Main Titles? Jurassic Shark and bollemanneke 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted December 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2020 Honestly, for me, the performance itself it's not the main raison d'etre of the whole thing. It's JW, standing in that hall, conducting that orchestra, being showered with love by a great audience. I don't need flawless performances from such an event. It's the celebration itself. The commemoration of a man's legacy. It was magical. That's so much bigger and more important than flubs or performance mistakes (which I am in no position whatsover to deny or discuss) Gurkensalat, Miguel Andrade, bigjimwilson and 9 others 7 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted December 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2020 58 minutes ago, Chewy said: Going on another topic, what does everyone think of the performance of the Star Wars Main Titles? That ugly flub at the beginning aside (which is especially unfortunate because it stands out so much and I'm rather sure it could be fixed by editing in the Saturday performance), I think it's excellent. And generally, any piece that brings out the Viennese horns has a certain something that you just can't get from any other recordings, regardless of how good they may be otherwise. (As I've mentioned before, I've always found Williams' own concert performances of the SW main title a bit too straight forward, "film tempo like". Which is why I always ranked the Gerhardt recording much higher. But in Tanglewood in 2019 I was very surprised and happy to hear him take a much more organic, "classical" approach to it, and he did the same in Vienna. That alone makes it one of the better recordings) bigjimwilson, Gurkensalat, Martinland and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 17 hours ago, Chewy said: Going on another topic, what does everyone think of the performance of the Star Wars Main Titles? I'm not that much bothered by the flub in that track. My main issue is with the Jaws track, which I find near unlistenable. 16 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: I'm rather sure it could be fixed by editing in the Saturday performance It's decisions such as not doing an edit here that I find strange with this release. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's decisions such as not doing an edit here that I find strange with this release. We know. You've only said it in every other of your posts on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I really haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted December 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2020 I have enjoyed Dudamel's conducting before but I found his compilation to be uninspired, not like Lockhart's. I hear what the people who don't like the Vienna recording hear but it just doesn't bother me. I would rather have a performance that's idiosyncratic like this with moments of brilliance. Jurassic Shark, tmarps and Gurkensalat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,673 Posted December 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2020 Wait a minute. Williams conducted the Vienna Philharmonic? Bespin, Jurassic Shark, tmarps and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 He gave it his best shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,532 Posted December 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Romão said: Honestly, for me, the performance itself it's not the main raison d'etre of the whole thing. It's JW, standing in that hall, conducting that orchestra, being showered with love by a great audience. I don't need flawless performances from such an event. It's the celebration itself. The commemoration of a man's legacy. It was magical. That's so much bigger and more important than flubs or performance mistakes (which I am in no position whatsover to deny or discuss) Yes! That's why I loved the bluray and barely noticed the flaws (besides the interlacing ), it's a different context than just another bunch of sometimes well, sometimes not all that well rerecorded pieces with none of that context to add to the endless pile. Miguel Andrade, Steve and Amer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: He gave it his best shot. Williams shot first. Jurassic Shark and bigjimwilson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 For those who can't decide whether they prefer the Williams/Vienna or the Dudamel/LA album, here's something new: (Click for product page) Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 1 hour ago, GlastoEls said: Williams shot first. He outplayed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 On 12/26/2020 at 8:07 AM, Steve said: Even though trolling is your main aim, please give it a rest. Everyone knows by now how poor the VPO is and how much you dislike the Vienna concert. Go listen to your world class norwegian orchestras and stop the trolling in this topic. There are people who enjoy the Blueray. Probably the best post ever here!! 💪💪💪 Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Watching this on the telly right now. Airing on Foxtel Arts. Who's the violin babe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 1, 2021 But I use Duck Duck Go. Anyway, wtf are you weirdo nerds arguing about? Flubs? Williams looking old and haggard? Sheesh, concerts always have some shitty bits compared to the bits you grew up with. Ya'll remind me of Hannibal Lecter at the beginning of Red Dragon who ate that piccolo player for flubbing a note or two, poor bugga! bigjimwilson, Fabulin, Jurassic Shark and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 563 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 19 hours ago, The Big Man said: But I use Duck Duck Go. I had to Google what that was. It felt like rain on your wedding day, or meeting someone's beautiful wife! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,483 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Back in stock after Christmas? How can that be? Deutsche Grammophon - der offizielle Shop - John Williams in Vienna (Ltd. Golden 2LP) - John Williams/ Wiener Philharmoniker/ Anne-Sophie Mutter - 2LP "Hurry up, goldenrod!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Remco 685 Posted January 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2021 I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. That also keeps the discussion going in circles. But frankly, I think it does matter IF you also want to see this album as a vehicle for raising the reputation of film music in the classical music world and all of that. bollemanneke, Holko and Jurassic Shark 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 21 minutes ago, Remco said: I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. That also keeps the discussion going in circles. But frankly, I think it does matter IF you also want to see this album as a vehicle for raising the reputation of film music in the classical music world and all of that. As a wise man once said, some fans just want a forum to promote the composer's work, while others find critical appreciation far more interesting. Let's hope this can be a forum for both parties. Ricard and Remco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 You think you "enlight" us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) You're repeating yourself there. When some of the other posters repeatedly flat out deny the existence of any imperfections (*cough* Steve), and persistently distort my opinions, it's only natural that I try to explain my points in different ways, hoping it will get through at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,352 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, Remco said: I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. That also keeps the discussion going in circles. But frankly, I think it does matter IF you also want to see this album as a vehicle for raising the reputation of film music in the classical music world and all of that. I don't really think this album will elevate, or would have elevated, film music in the classical world (had it been better). I've heard a lot of ignorant opinions coming from that world about JW and those folks aren't going to change their minds just because the VPO released this album. The first thing that needs to happen to make those people pay attention to JW's art is the death of John Williams. For some reason only dead people can become great composers. Then you have to give it another 200 years. Then we'll talk again. Jurassic Shark and Fabulin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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