Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Nor Pythagoras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Nor Pythagoras. Did he write music? I thought that was the area of expertise of Homer and Sofokles. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Thor said: Did he write music? I thought that was the area of expertise of Homer and Sofokles. He at least spoke about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 You are missed. Damien F, Edmilson, leeallen01 and 5 others 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,471 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Honestly, I rather ambivalent about the score for Avatar, but there is some truly amazing moments in it, like the cue below, which I've loved since the movie came out (despite the obvious Gladiator temp track): And yeah, that one NEEDS an expansion. So many great cues weren't included in the OST, specially from the climax. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 My issue with the Avatar score is, that with its typical world music sound it contributes significantly to the romantic indigenous cliches so that for me the movie feels rather, I said it before, like Disney's Robin Hood with animals (just not as funny), than a science fiction movie on another planet. I know. It is not Horner's fault. He was asked to do it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Edmilson said: Honestly, I rather ambivalent about the score for Avatar, but there is some truly amazing moments in it I preach it since it came out: listen to this 1998 Disney movie and you have all elements (especially percussion, twinkling synth, tribal chorus) from 'Avatar' you need, and imho it's a much better score. GerateWohl and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I'm really looking forward to hearing Franglen's work but in the meanwhile, here is my complete cover set for this score, with two versions (blue ocean logo and white logo): For full resolution, click the embedded image album! crumbs and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Does anyone see it on the NZ apple music or anything? haven't found anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 It's on that Disney licensing site https://www.disneymusiclicensing.com/album/MTk2NjExOS01Nzg0YTU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I'm guessing no one among us has a login / credentials for it. Then again it's one more day's wait. Tracklist from the site (Had to type it out) EDIT: Horner is credited in the publisher information on only ONE cue as noted. 1. Nothing Is Lost (You Give Me Strength) - Performed by The Weeknd (4:28) 2. Hometree (3:28) 3. Happiness Is Simple (Franglen / Horner) (2:22) 4. A New Star (2:57) 5. Converging Paths (1:45) 6. Rescue and Loss (6:40) 7. Family Is Our Fortress (3:07) 8. Into The Water (3:40) 9. The Way of Water (2:30) 10. Payakan (3:30) 11. Mighty Eywa (4:13) 12. Friends (1:47) 13. Cove of the Ancestors (2:46) 14. The Tulkun Return (2:51) 15. The Hunt (5:48) 16. Na'vi Attack (4:44) 17. Eclipse (3:13) 18. Bad Parents (3:23) 19. Knife Fight (2:48) 20. From Darkness to Light (4:14) 21. The Spirit Tree (2:58) 22. The Songcord - Performed by Zoe Saldana (3:20) Total Time: 1:16:32 MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Is Zoe a good singer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Hard to say with 45 seconds per-track that are playable, and she's singing in the 'Na'vi language at least in that sample. It's not too far removed from her speaking voice. "The Songcord" (English Translation of Na’vi language) I experience Neteyam, Great Mother, within me You brought light, New Life, a new son Joy within my heart, joy within my heart We thank you For the days of our life We thank you For the nights of our life My Eywa! My Eywa! Welcome, Kiri I take you to my family I experience dawn A miracle arrives, an impossible birth Joy within a heart, joy within my heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 The consensus I’m getting from most of these samples is a Thomas Newman synth vibe to everything until maybe around “The Tulkun Return” where I start to hear some orchestra that sounds vaguely similar to Horner for the rest of the score but it’s still not very powerful in these snippets. Haven’t heard any themes beside the danger motif and almost everything sounds like documentary music. Also the human military stuff (I’m assuming that’s what it is) has a terrible synth sound to it. Damn shame if this is what it all actually sounds like. “The Songcord” is interesting. It’s pretty but not memorable. This is obviously just based on the sample but this significantly reduced my excitement for the score. The opening of the new Weeknd song sounds more exciting than what I’ve heard so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 So is the release of the album not dependent on timezones? Do we know when this will drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 12 minutes ago, Bounty95 said: So is the release of the album not dependent on timezones? Do we know when this will drop? I’m assuming midnight in the Eastern Time Zone. Bounty95 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 If listening through Spotify, probably Swedish time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 2 hours ago, NL197 said: Tracklist from the site (Had to type it out) I wonder if whoever runs the Film Music Reporter site did the same, or just copy/pasted your hard work http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/12/15/avatar-the-way-of-water-soundtrack-album-details/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 The soundtrack is available to stream now on Spotify here in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Yes it seems to have been added to every timezone simultaneously https://open.spotify.com/album/4M2Mf4pmARKGVT9MLCe3HA?si=dpLUtJaKQc6wvlofiwZO2A https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYa-PL0HlaCILmCEKDtwNYUNO_r1j7eJE https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BQ2CYH5L https://music.apple.com/us/album/avatar-the-way-of-water-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1659775403 MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jay said: I wonder if whoever runs the Film Music Reporter site did the same, or just copy/pasted your hard work http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/12/15/avatar-the-way-of-water-soundtrack-album-details/ Not sure, but I didn't add accents to Zoe Saldana's name, and I revised it to add the (Franglen / Horner) name to that track 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 There’s an expanded album coming as well on the 20th! I saw the movie and it’s brilliant, can’t wait to hear the score but I wonder if the all Horner theme parts will be on the OST. Based on the credits they won’t be which is odd since they’re deeply integrated into the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Here as well. Sounds a bit generic, sadly. It's a bit underwhelming for a movie in the works for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 24 minutes ago, Mr. Who said: There’s an expanded album coming as well on the 20th! Erik Woods posted a tracklist to the FSM thread, though did not cite a source 1. Hometree 2. Songcord Opening 3. Happiness Is Simple 4. A New Star 5. Train Attack 6. Masks Off 7. Converging Paths 8. Rescue and Loss 9. Family Is Our Fortress 10. Sanctuary 11. Into the Water 12. Training Montage 13. The Way of Water 14. Where the Men Hunt 15. Payakan 16. Mighty Eywa 17. Friends 18. Cove of the Ancestors 19. The Tulkun Return 20. The Hunt 21. Kids in Peril 22. Na’vi Attack 23. A Farewell to Arm 24. Eclipse 25. Bad Parents 26. Knife Fight 27. World Upside Down 28. From Darkness to Light 29. Family 30. Songcord Chapter 31. The Spirit Tree 32. The Songcord – Zoë Saldana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, TolkienSS said: Sounds a bit generic, sadly. It's a bit underwhelming for a movie in the works for a decade. Well they had another guy who was supposed to do it. On 13/12/2022 at 5:22 PM, TolkienSS said: 😂 Including drive to the theatre, drive back, and commercials, you have to take a day off to watch thing thing. For @Naïve Old Fart, a day might not be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I was hoping The Weeknd would start singing a real solemn "I see you..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 20 minutes ago, TolkienSS said: Sounds a bit generic, sadly. It's a bit underwhelming for a movie in the works for a decade. I'll remember this moment: I agree with you. It comes across to me as pleasant, inoffensive background stuff that never really does anything that interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 From my first listen it's a solid 4 out of 5 stars. It suffers a bit from anonymous new themes and unexciting action music, but many great individual moments make up for that. I wonder to what extent seeing the movie will change my opinion of the score for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Those who listened to the full score are there Horner themes featured on album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Yes, but not many. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I’ll listen to the score when I get back from work. I’m setting my expectations low. I’m also assuming the score will work better in film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Seeing the film tomorrow and looking forward to hearing the score with the film so I have better context when I listen to the album. Also 'War' from Horner's score is an all-timer. A total bombardment of brilliance. Damien F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LSH 969 Posted December 15, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2022 Just completed my first listen. I really rather like it. Action music isn't as bad as some make out... it's mostly generic but there are some short powerful moments. Everything celebrating Pandora is lovely. I really dig the theme in The Tulkun Return... very Horner-esque. leeallen01, MaxMovieMan, 1977 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post leeallen01 2,136 Posted December 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2022 Man, man, mannnnn! Moments like 2:38-3:00 in 'Na'vi Attack' give me goosebumps! Horner, man...why did you have to leave us, you incredible human being. Wow! This piece is fantastic. Almost a pure Horner feeling. Taikomochi, 1977, LSH and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I have seen the movie but haven't listened to the OST yet. There are definitively Horneresque new moments. Some trumpet writing in the action towards the end felt really like Horner. 1 hour ago, Bounty95 said: Yes, but not many. The film has a lot of horner moments (some direct quotes as well I think but they might have been re recordings) so I guess the OST focuses on the completely new stuff. The Horner themes are really ingrained into the DNA of the score as heard in the movie, in a good way. leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaxMovieMan 273 Posted December 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2022 Just finished the score! Overall I think it’s a good album but there are some issues. While Simon Franglen did a good job bringing back the textures and feeling of the first Avatar I feel as if his own themes are unmemorable and there’s a lot of material here that is very meandering and sounds like it should be in a documentary. Most of this is relegated to the beginning of tracks which eventually blossom into something grander (This is why I was so let down by the samples as they only played the openings of the tracks). His action material is decent in some sections where it sounds most like Horner (God the brass writing at 1:02 in “Na’vi Attack” sounds like Horner revived I cannot wait to hear this in theaters) but other times it sounds like Zimmer rip-off ostinato-filled POS garbage. There are a few of Franglen’s own themes that I noticed but they were hard to pick up on. The instances where these themes shine are some of the highlights of the album. Notable performances of his themes include “Hometree,” “Friends,” and “The Tulkun Return.” I can’t wait to see the film and also listen to the expanded album as I’m sure I’ll have a greater appreciation for what Franglen did at that point. Also pretty cool that he put in the “Danger” motif a few times and 0:32 of “Knife Fight” is a direct lift of Horner. Franglen really tried to make this score sound like it was done by Horner. Speaking of which the other best part of the score are the times when Horner’s themes appear. Here are which ones show up and when. AVATAR MAIN THEME (“I SEE YOU”) Happiness Is Simple - 1:35 Hometree - 2:48 Train Attack - 0:51, 1:00 Masks Off - 2:47 Friends - 1:19 Cove of the Ancestors - 1:15, 1:54 Na’vi Attack - 1:14, 2:19, 2:38, 2:51 WOODSPRITES MOTIF Converging Paths - 1:02 Cove of the Ancestors - 2:14 NA’VI CULTURE THEME Na’vi Attack - 0:49 NA’VI BATTLE THEME Train Attack - 0:55 Masks Off - 3:13 Na’vi Attack - 2:42 GRIEF THEME Eclispe - 1:31 I’ve heard that there are more uses of Horner’s themes in the actual film as most of these are really just hints or cameos. This score is very interesting as it sounds like Horner’s Avatar but there aren’t any memorable new themes for me really and occasionally you’ll hear the old Avatar themes and you get excited. Gotta see if the extended album adds much but I honestly doubt it as why would he leave the best parts off this album. I’m assuming the extended album will mostly just be more atmospheric stuff. It’s still pretty neat to hear a score that sounds this much like Horner in today’s age. 1977, LSH and Bayesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt C 455 Posted December 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2022 Franglen was put in a tough spot with this score. He had to follow in the footsteps of his close collaborator Horner, satisfy James Cameron, while establishing his own sound. Way of Water is not a bad follow-up to Avatar. It's not an entertaining powerhouse like that score but Franglen managed to straddle the line (probably plays even better in the film!). He uses Horner's motifs sensibly but doesn't slather them on willy nilly. leeallen01, Yavar Moradi, MaxMovieMan and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Brass towards the end of "Hometree" (ex: 2:35) sounds like its about to play 'Portals' from Silvestri's Avengers Endgame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 It’s definitely great to hear the danger theme back but it really pains knowing that Horner should have been scoring this. He would have knocked it out of the park. Franglen is no James Horner he does a good job for the first 2 hours and a great job for the last hour. Just sucks knowing what Horner could have delivered MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 399 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 I didn't really notice the score in the film until some of Horner's themes came in. Franglen used them in the proper places. Otherwise it's a pretty average and serviceable action score that won't win any awards. It's quite sad knowing that James Horner could've been scoring this 3 hour epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Thanks to everyone that has posted their impressions of the score as heard in the film and/or on album. My question to those that have seen the film, would you recommend first watching it to experience the score in context or should one dive straight into the album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: Thanks to everyone that has posted their impressions of the score as heard in the film and/or on album. My question to those that have seen the film, would you recommend first watching it to experience the score in context or should one dive straight into the album? I have seen the film but haven’t heard the album yet. In general I always prefer going in cold without having listened to the score before and it was great hearing it in context the first time. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 9 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said: This score is very interesting as it sounds like Horner’s Avatar but there aren’t any memorable new themes for me really Personally, I love the new Franglen theme heard in 'The Tulkun Return.' Very Horner-esque and hummable. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 The album is exactly as I experienced it in the film. Great parts: Whatever is left of the Horner DNA. Bad parts: Most everything else. But I think and hope I can weed the 76 minutes down to some 30-40 minutes of decent stuff. JoeinAR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 So I guess the first major new theme from Franglen is in 'THE TULKUN RETURN.' A Theme: - 0:17 - 0:51 - 1:58 (Chords of the melody) B Theme: - 0:38 - 1:02 - 2:21 Gorgeous stuff all round. Kind of reminds me of a theme suite presentation that Williams always gives his best themes for concert performance. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 After one listen I can say that I love the score! There are some very nice new themes (Family, Swimming, Healing, The Skypeople military motif and harmonies, The Tulkun and some more motifs that I haven't noted down yet). I think Franglen captured the DNA of the first score and expanded not he musical language without copying Horner. You hear Franglen's musical voice and what he does with the underwater scenes is really magical. The OSt is definitively missing a lot of music and I hope that the extended album will add the most important missing cues. There is a lot more Horner material in the film (including some parts from Destruction of Hometree, Quaritch's final cue from A1 etc). The flute theme that plays at 2:38 in 3m2 Jakes Meets the Na'vi... from the first score is also used quite frequently in the movie but doesn't appear on this first OST at all. I think Cameron made the right choice, naming Franglen as the composer fro the Avatar sequels and it will be interesting to see how he develops the new (and old) themes in the upcoming sequels, given that they are taking a thematic approach with the music 1977 and MaxMovieMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted December 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2022 Just finished with my first listen. There are some great cues and ideas, but also some disappoiting ones. The action in the first half of the album is quite anonymus and I don't like the synthetic rythms and ostinato of cues like "A New Star" or the electronic distortions of "Bad Parents". But in the last half it gets a bit better, and I feel "The Hunt" and "Na'vi Attack" are a great continuation of Horner's "War" cue (altough not reaching the same level of excellence). I really like all the different interpolations of Horner's themes, especially in the softer, water-y cues. I also love the reprise of the choral lament from the previous film that pops up in the middle of "Eclipse", even if it's almost a straightforward reprise. I think Franglen did a goo job of maintaining Horner's style for the most part, and his own themes, while not instantly memorable, made quite an impact in some cues, especially in "Hometree", "The Way of Water" and "The Tulkan Return", which feature what I think are Franglen's new main ideas, one for the wonder aspect and another for the culture, I think. I guess watching the movie and giving the score a couple more listens will clarify these connections and I'm sure I will appreciate it a bit more. Obviously, is not on Horner's level, but in my opinion there are very few composers nowadays that could reach that, so I think Franglen did a nice job, even if a bit underwhelming at parts. MaxMovieMan, 1977 and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 What I called the Healing theme (plays in the first part of From Darkness to Light before the Family theme comes in and several other tracks) in my previous post, is in fact Kiri's theme, confirmed by Franglen on Twitter. leeallen01 and MaxMovieMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,471 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 I want to build a time machine and go back to that fateful day in 2015 to stop Horner from climbing onto that plane. Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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