Ecoutez le cinéma John Williams release - The Legend of John Williams 20CD box set

[Bespin 8,484]

Indeed, when I refer to "mainstream" music lovers, I'm talking about those in my 'X' generation who still prefer purchasing physical CDs.

 

My generation has stopped buying CDs of mainstream artists because the music nowadays seems lackluster and the material feels disposable. However, I'm still willing to invest in box sets and spend some money when it comes to a comprehensive anthology of a great 20th-21st century artist, such as John Williams. And I'm not the only one.

 

On my Facebook page, when we announced the box set, a user expressed excitement about finally being able to get their hands on the OST of Jaws on CD. It's interesting to consider this perspective, especially from someone who might not be familiar with the "expanded scores" and its very specialized market.

 

Anyway, I'm tired of saying that this Anthology is truly exceptionnal, because IT IS.

 

You'll probably all get it, finding the reason you want to justify your craving...

[JTN 2,037]

18 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

where there is a point where a 'completist' would decide it wasn't worth it.

There is no such point. 

18 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Would you (as in everyone) buy it, despite no new musical content whatsoever?

ABSOLUTELY. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

So you would buy (or desire to) absolutely anything released by Williams, regardless of whether there was any new musical content?

[JTN 2,037]

8 minutes ago, Bespin said:

You'll probably all get it

Maybe I'll wait for the vinyl edition.

1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

So you would buy (or desire to) absolutely anything released by Williams, regardless of whether there was any new musical content?

Yes.

[Bespin 8,484]

1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

So you would buy (or desire to) absolutely anything released by Williams, regardless of whether there was any new musical content?

 

It is NOT just another pointless compilation. John Williams was personally involved in the making of this Anthology, then the booklet will feature a new interview made especially for this release.

[JTN 2,037]

3 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

It is NOT just another pointless compilation. John Williams was personally involved in the making of this Anthology, then the booklet will feature a new interview made especially for this release.

And it has a packaging specially made for this collector's release. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

It is NOT just another pointless compilation. John Williams was personally involved in the making of this Anthology, then the booklet will feature a new interview made especially for this release.

 

I wasn't referring to this box with that comment.

 

I was referring to hypothetical 'other' compilations potentially containing nothing new at all for collectors as I'm curious about how far some completists go.

[JTN 2,037]

14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm curious about how far some completists go.

All the way. That's why they're called "completists" or "purists". :-)

 

The ony factor that's limiting what I'm willing to buy that's released from John Williams, is money. 

[Bespin 8,484]

Here, if you are not familiar with the format of those boxsets and their booklet.

 

(PS I don't know why, the video works on my phone, not on my computer!)

[Thor 7,518]

I think we've discussed this elsewhere before, but one can define one's "completism" in different ways. For me, it's easy: I need to have one good representation of every single composition that John Williams ever did. Within those parameters, I already have as complete a John Williams collection as it's possible to get, especially if we're talking digital files (I still need 10 CDs from recent years that I'm waiting to find to an affordable price). What I'm missing are completely unavailable titles, be it a couple of concert works or a number of television episode scores.

 

However, I don't need to have every single thing with the words "John Williams" on it. I can just imagine what nightmare that must be. Not only having multiple editions of the same title, but also all the endless compilations out there, from cheapo synth covers to proper recordings. And that's for John Williams. Imagine having the same attitude to someone like Ennio Morricone!

 

Yet, I can imagine there are some of those types of John Williams completists out there too, and for those, this box is a must. So some sale there. Other potential buyers could be people that have just started their Williams collection/exploration. Yet other again would be people who want this as an introduction that goes beyond a single or double-disc compilation. 

 

In short, I feel fairly confident that it's going to sell what it's supposed to, even if some of us find it more or less pointless to own, due to various reasons. Time will tell!

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

My only limit to what I'm willing to buy that's released from John Williams, is money. 

 

I'd gladly buy JW money.

[JTN 2,037]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

However, I don't need to have every single thing with the words "John Williams" on it.

Even I'm not that fanatic. But I buy every single score that a specialty label releases by JW, and every major compilation like this new one, or the Decca or the Sony Conductor set. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

I think we've discussed this elsewhere before, but one can define one's "completism" in different ways. For me, it's easy: I need to have one good representation of every single composition that John Williams ever did. 

 

For once I'm completely on your side with this. I want one good representation (or at most, OST and some sort of expansion) of every 'good' score my favourite composers have done, and that's it. If another edition comes along with more musc, I consider very carefully whether I need that extra music and whether it's worth buying the score again.

 

I see other peoples' digital collections when they share screenshots, and I see utter chaos with franchises like Jurassic. They have the OST, the anniversary edition, LLL's first one, LLL's reissue and the remastered OST. I can't fathom having that many copies of one score; I'd never know what the hell to listen to.

[Holko 9,529]

2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I want one good representation (or at most, OST and some sort of expansion) of every 'good' score my favourite composers have done, and that's it.

I also agree there but I want a perfect presentation, that's why everything is needed so I can tailor it for myself. I'm also horrified at those digital library messes

[JTN 2,037]

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I'd never know what the hell to listen to.

A different edition every time. Sometimes you just want the "short" OST, sometimes the expanded remastered score, sometimes the unused and/or alternate cues, sometimes the remastered OST. The point is you can choose. Being a completist means you can listen to everything by your favorite film composer. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

On 24/10/2023 at 7:20 PM, BB-8 said:

 

So... is this before he joined Sky?

[mstrox 6,651]

My completionist instinct doesn’t require me to have, for instance, the second copy of the E.T. OST from this box, any more than it requires me to own a copy of every printing of the E.T. OST from each country where it was released (96 versions according to Discogs).

 

I’ve found myself spending money on things not because I want them, but because I want to HAVE them.  I’m trying to curb that impulse more recently.  I’d love to have this pretty box sitting on my shelf next to other boxes, but the truth is that I already own everything on CD that I would care to listen to from this box. 
 

I do hold onto the OSTs though when an expansion comes out - assuming they’re not included in the expansion.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

That's a healthy attitude. 

[Bayesian 1,363]

In my mind, the target audience for this box set, other than obsessive completists, are those individuals who know JW’s music enough to appreciate him as a composer and want to get a sense of what his long and varied career looks like. There’s an unparalleled story to be read (listened to) here; one that spans 7 decades and shows remarkable diversity and evolution unlike that of any other composer. All presented with the highest production values in one beautiful book-box.

 

I have the Morricone version of this box and it’s all the physical-format Morricone I ever need or want to own, exactly for the reasons I laid out above.

[Bespin 8,484]

I'm too lazy to post the interview excerpt with JW they posted on the Écoutez le cinema FB page. 

[mstrox 6,651]

It’s against the rules not to post a link, Bes!

 

https://fb.watch/nWKrlqLFT0/?mibextid=cr9u03

[Jay 37,372]

Remember when Facebook posts used to embed here? 

[Faleel 5,359]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Remember when Facebook posts used to embed here? 

Was that actually the case? or are you just confusing them with Twitter/X posts?

[Jay 37,372]

Nope! Facebook and Instagram posts used to turn into embeds, then one day it went away. You can find a post by me commenting on it if you search for it. 

 

Twitter posts still embed, but only if the link is using twitter.com. If it's using x.com, it doesn't. 

[Faleel 5,359]

Really?

 

Wow you are right, it only works, if you copy the embed code.

 

Weird

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

View this post on Instagram

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post shared by John Powell (@johnj_powell)

 

[Andy 4,141]

Will this be available from US retailers like SAE, Intrada, or moviemusic.com?

[Jay 37,372]

Search for the Morricone box on your retailer of choice and if they carry that, they'll probably carry this 

[rough cut 1,714]

14 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm curious about how far some completists go.

Maybe this question is better asked in the John Williams in Vienna thread?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Without wanting to read that entire thread, are you referring to everyone travelling to Vienna or there being 15 releases of the album?

 

One point where I knew I didn't have this trait was when Einaudi put out a 7-disc 'Seven Days Walking' box set which was like having the entire recording sessions for a concept album, and I realised that the variations were far too subtle for me. No doubt there are fans who would lap up something like this at dawn, but not me.

[rough cut 1,714]

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Without wanting to read that entire thread, are you referring to everyone travelling to Vienna

No.

 

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

or there being 15 releases of the album?

Yes.

[Edmilson 7,470]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

Remember when Facebook posts used to embed here? 

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

On 26/10/2023 at 12:00 PM, Sandor said:

I am thinking to preorder through Music Box Records: https://www.musicbox-records.com/en/cd-soundtracks/13723-the-legend-of-john-williams.html

 

Would be my first time. Has anyone had any positive experiences with the site?

 

They've been my go to source for all the speciality label releases ever since the US stores became too expensive for us EU citizens and Chris's Soundtrack Corner's Chris bother to send me an e-mail to specifically point out that I paid more for a Quartet release because I decided to order at quartet and not his store. So far I've only had very good experiences with MBR.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

What does Chris' Soundtrack Corner have to do with MBR? 

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What does Chris' Soundtrack Corner have to do with MBR? 

 

It's the Euro store I used to order at before I switched to MBR.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

I'm familiar with the store. I was just commenting on the narrative of your post.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I don't see where my narrative is confusing? I used to order from US stores until they became too expensive. Then I used to order from Soundtrack Corner before it also became expensive and I found the experience unpleasant. I've been a happy MBR customer since.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Then I used to order from Soundtrack Corner before it also became expensive and I found the experience unpleasant.

 

That's the missing piece of information. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

That was implied. Why else would I bring Soundtrack Corner into the picture?

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

That's what was unclear.

[eitam 364]

An interview (in French) with Stéphane Lerouge on underscores, about the making of the box set:

https://www.underscores.fr/chroniques/disques/2023/10/the-legend-of-john-williams/

 

It's a very nice read. My main takeaway is that apparently a Rare Breed reedition is in the works.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Reedition? You mean release?

[eitam 364]

You're right, there never was an OST album for this one... Well, the word used in the interview is "re-edition", but I hope it means "release"! 

[ciarlese 251]

Got the page translated by Google, it seems that they are talking about a "reissue".

What matters most here is that we have a title of an upcoming MM produced JW release 😁.

 

 

[crumbs 14,318]

Hah, whoops! 

 

That's superb news, wonder if Quartet are looking after that one? I'll just be happy to know the elements are safe and transferred.

[rough cut 1,714]

Didn’t MM already state, years ago, that Sugarland Express was already in the can - but the release was a no go from JW?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

He is talking about the rare breed. Which i think it was also nixxed by williams anyway…

 

good news, i like that score very much 

[rough cut 1,714]

3 hours ago, eitam said:

An interview (in French) with Stéphane Lerouge on underscores, about the making of the box set:

https://www.underscores.fr/chroniques/disques/2023/10/the-legend-of-john-williams/

 

Nice interview!  Google translate:

 

Spoiler

After the Frenchman Michel Legrand, after the Italian Ennio Morricone, Stéphane Lerouge is tackling another monument: the American John Williams. To pay tribute to him, no less than 20 records and 22 hours of music contained in a luxurious box set designed with the help of the legendary composer. All complemented by a booklet rich in interviews: Oliver Stone, Jean-Jacques Annaud, Alan Bergman and of course the maestro himself. To find out more about the genesis of this extraordinary project, we could only question the irreplaceable Stéphane Lerouge…

 

How did this project get started ?

It’s a bit like the principle of a chain. In November 2018, Universal Music published the Michel Legrand 20 CD box set, the first box set designed in a half-art book format, known as Italian style. I gave a copy to Ennio Morricone at the Cinémathèque Française, just before the meeting that Frédéric Bonnaud and I hosted with him, the day before his final Parisian concert. Morricone said to me: “Why don’t you undertake the same project on me?” » A wish that I fulfilled, with a first box designed with the involvement of the Maestro, a second after his flight, alas. Of this fascinating generation born between 1932 and 1933 (Barry, Lai, Quincy Jones, Legrand), John Williams was the only composer of whom we had never reissued a single original soundtrack in Ecoutez le Cinéma!, notably because American labels specialists took care of it (and are taking care of it) in a regular and intelligent manner, in particular thanks to the work of Mike Matessino. Nevertheless, I sent a set of the Legrand and Morricone box sets to John Williams and his agent, Michael Gorfaine, with the proposal to dedicate a similar project to him, in exactly the same format. The response was quite quick: in principle, the idea interested him, on the condition that he could validate the successive aspects of the project, from the construction of the 20 CDs to the graphics, including the editorial. Everything still remained to be done but, first step, we had the master's blessing. Between this and the release of the box set, many months, more than a year, passed… This is how, in turn, Legrand finally led me to his friend Williams.

 

How did you choose the selections that appear there? What were the main criteria?

I love Robert Mitchum’s aphorism about working with David Lean: “It’s like building the Taj Mahal with toothpicks.” » We're not far from it: 20 CDs, that's 22 hours of music. It is enormous and, at the same time, it is a miniature compared to a work like that of Williams, monumental and plethoric. From the outset, we knew that CD 19 would be devoted to concert works and CD 20 to covers and rereadings. For the rest, it took me several days to build, deconstruct, rebuild. The basis is obviously the numerous recordings controlled by Universal Music, from the MCA Records, Fox Records, Capitol, Decca, Philips and Deutsche Grammophon catalogs. I tried to bring them together thematically, by genre (disaster films, westerns, sixties comedies), filmmakers (Mark Rydell, Oliver Stone, Robert Altman, Martin Ritt), series (Indiana Jones). There was objectively a balance to be found between essential scores... and others which are never included in this type of project: Images, The Long Goodbye (Le Privé), The Missouri Breaks, The Eiger Sanction (La Sanction), Cinderella Liberty, Sleepers, Nixon…

 

Is there rare or even unpublished content?

First, to fit everything in, we had to respect the edits of the original LPs, at least on a certain number of original tapes. Williams confirmed this to me: after recording, he loved working on the disc edit. That is to say, in his own words, “to extract the quintessence”. Modestly, in my turn, I tried to extract the quintessence of the quintessence. For example, the coupling of the two Jaws proves fascinating: listening to the two opuses in a row allows you to measure how Williams found original solutions to both extend and renew the material of the first film... As for the content rare, it's difficult to say: certain fleeting CD editions (Cinderella Liberty, Not With My Wife, You Don't) are today quite difficult to find... On the album of concert works appears the Prelude and Fugue, little-known youth composition to which Williams is very attached. Just like his Sinfonietta for Wind Ensemble, the 1/4 inch tape of which was exhumed from the Deutsche Grammophon archives. When it was released, Williams was proud to see his name in the famous yellow cartridge of the iconic classic label... without knowing that he would sign with it, almost half a century later. The CD of songs and replays also reveals titles never reissued from the original vinyls (Daddy’s Gone A-Hunting, Love’s The Only Game In Town), or even previously unreleased (Come Tuesday).

 

How did the exchanges with John Williams go?

Initially, everything went through his personal assistant, Jamie Richardson, whose help and support was constant. I really have to thank him for that. Jamie has knowledge and a real insight into the Williamsian repertoire. The validation of the structure and the framework was quite quick but with precise observations: on the song from the love theme of The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing, Dream Away, Williams insisted on the Frank Sinatra version, for example. He kindly asked me to catch a jazz rereading of Schindler’s List. No doubt because this theme cannot be twisted in a direction contrary to its original spirit... In fact, it is especially on CDs 19 and 20, of a freer, more random construction, that John Williams' remarks are are worn.

 

When did you meet him?

In July, following his three pyrotechnic concerts at the Hollywood Bowl. I am lucky to be friends with an immense lyricist, Alan Bergman: with his wife Marilyn, he wrote around fifteen songs with Williams, whom he has known and been with since... 1955! Who today, in Los Angeles, can seriously say: “I met Williams when he was 23! » ? (laughs) Alan was a valuable ambassador to John, he helped make the connection. To both review the contents of the box set and, above all, carry out a long interview for the booklet, Williams kindly received me in his historic bungalow at Universal Studios. It is impressive to enter this lair in which so many masterpieces were born... and which we have seen in so many documentaries. Spielberg's office is right next door... Right away, I gave him a CD with the digitization of Sinfonietta for Wind Ensemble, which was an iconoclastic introduction. Spontaneously, much was said about his link to Michel Legrand, whom he met in 1967 at the home of producer Saul Chaplin, who organized private concerts with 4 pianists on 2 pianos. Williams called these evenings the “golden hand parties”. He was always grateful to Legrand for having been (with André Previn) the first colleague to record a cover of one of his first original soundtracks, Fitzwilly. Fifteen years later, in a return match, Williams asked Legrand to write the Yentl concert suite, which they created together, Michel on piano, John conducting, on the stage of Boston Hall. I also told Williams about this interview with Toots Thielemans, in 2014, in his house in La Hulpe, near Brussels. Without getting up, Toots grabbed a harmonica from a coffee table to play me Nice To Be Around, a piece he revered. He was already tired but suddenly, thanks to his instrument, he seemed to be twenty years old. It was a moment of grace: Williams in a private concert, by Charlie Parker on the harmonica.

 

What impression did Williams make on you, humanly speaking?

What to say ? Warm, very cheerful, enthusiastic. He is a sacred monster... but he does not consider himself or behave as such. He constantly repeats that, although he is touched by the complete fans of his nine Star Wars films, he thinks he has written nothing that rivals Bach, Brahms or Ravel. Much has been said about Images, a score which allowed him to take a step towards the key composer of his youth, Edgar Varèse. From his stay in Paris when he came to meet the Japanese percussionist Stomu Yamash’ta. From his relationship to jazz, from the border between his language for the cinema and for the concert, from his trio of mentors (Previn, Herrmann and Mancini), from the gap represented by Schindler's List... The most striking thing is the distance he puts between himself and his work. He told me that he does not spend his time immersed in his old scores, listening to them constantly... but prefers to project himself forward. And then, like Legrand, he is very honest and even quite self-critical about his work: he takes a lucid look at certain comedies from his beginnings, admits to preferring the original soundtracks of The Poseidon Adventure. and from The Towering Inferno to that of Earthquake, recognizes that Nixon's writing was more complicated than that of the first two Stones. All sprinkled with French words, which he remembered... In short, entering this bungalow had the same effect on me as entering Morricone's office, Place de Venise: it was an intense, funny and moving moment, paradoxical, totally timeless.

 

Are there any scores that John Williams did not want to include in this box set?

I was expecting your question, especially its subtext! No, for a first collaboration, I didn’t dare to put my foot in the dish: “What if we included the complete Sugarland Express!” » Likewise, I would have liked the western CD to open with The Rare Breed (Rancho Bravo) but given that a reissue project is already underway, it was a bit complicated...

 

Is he happy with the end result?

I will be able to answer you in three weeks… At this time, the box set is still in press. What I am certain of is that Williams was very sensitive to the panoramic, transversal side of the project, to the fact that we are trying to represent all the faces, all the sides of his inspiration. This is the first time Penelope has reached out to Elegy for Cello and Orchestra, “one of my favorite compositions” he confessed to me. The influence of jazz, very important in his early days, is also crucial, notably the fact that we can listen to him as a pianist and improviser in The Long Goodbye (Le Privé). The contents of the box set span sixty years, from Checkmate to the Violin Concerto No 2 with the great Anne-Sophie Mutter, one of her very recent compositions for the concert. Finally, for the booklet, I gathered the testimonies of Alan Bergman who admitted: “John is a great composer of songs… in spite of himself. » By Jean-Jacques Annaud, who was the first to bring Williams and Yo-Yo Ma together in the cinema. And finally from the inexhaustible Oliver Stone who had this lovely phrase: “John is a Mount Rushmore of film music and, in life, he is a sphinx! » (laughs)

 

Were some titles more difficult to obtain than others (or even impossible)?

Can you imagine the pile of legal files, totaling 373 titles! Beyond the Universal Music titles, there are recordings from MGM, Universal Studios, Warner Bros., Paramount, Disney, Sony Music… Which makes sense: Williams has worked for all the studios. It was a long, roller coaster ride, sometimes tedious but, objectively, the fact that the composer formally validated the content of the project made the process easier. Without his green light, the box set would have been released in 2030. I must salute the furious work of the lawyer, Christelle d'Almeida, as well as that of all the collaborators: Vincent Malet for the mastering, Camille Bitaud for the icon, Jérôme Witz for the graphics... Thanks to the kindness of the Lucasfilm photo library, we were able to recover the HD of the studio photo shoot for The Last Jedi, in 2017. We did several cover tests with this material but left John Williams to decide of the final version.

 

What is the target, in terms of buyers, for this box?

It's like the Morricone box sets: first of all, it's a fairly large audience, who don't necessarily have individual CDs of all these original tapes. In the case of Ennio, Universal Music was quite surprised: some Morriconians nevertheless bought the boxes, either for certain rarer scores (Orca, The Scarlet And The Black), or to have an object which brings together, which unites all these works . Will the Williams box set also manage to reach several circles? Impossible to answer at the moment...

 

Can we consider the existence of a second volume later?

Of course, it would be a dream... Especially since we would be relieved (that's not the right word) of certain obvious facts. For now, I am measuring the journey accomplished. It’s like watching a finished, mixed film: you can’t imagine what goes on behind the scenes, the number of obstacles overcome to achieve the result. There is only one obvious fact: this box set The Legend Of John Wiliams is the first anthology in the history of recording to bring together Barbra Streisand and The Chieftains, Kyle Eastwood and Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma and Sting, without forgetting our comrade Jean-Michel Bernard, sandwiched between Ella Fitzgerald and Sinatra. This simple observation confirms Williams' eclecticism, the range of his languages, his taste for music in the plural.

 

[Thor 7,518]

Great news about THE RARE BREED. It is, of course, not totally unreleased. There's that old, generous suite of 18 minutes and 33 seconds that was on an old Silva JW compilation, which - to be honest - contains all the highlights of the score. But yeah -- it should get its own soundtrack release. In my ideal world coupled with THE PLAINSMAN, but that's not gonna happen.

[filmmusic 1,838]

I don't understand.

We will get that suite again (reissue) or a complete score or incomplete (album format) of THE RARE BREED?

[Bespin 8,484]

10 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I don't understand.

We will get that suite again (reissue) or a complete score or incomplete (album format) of THE RARE BREED?

 

My guess is the premier release of the score by a specialty label.

 

It's a 1966 score, so I don't expect something really good in terms of quality. The source will probably be the movie's stems (in mono), as to my knowledge, there is no album.