John Powell's HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON: THE HIDDEN WORLD (2019) - 2024 Varese Deluxe Edition

[Edmilson 7,466]

3 hours ago, bored said:

I personally always enjoy when an orchestra is pushed to its limits. Overwhelming action is definitely my favorite, as long as it's actual crafted chaos with every part of the orchestra being represented, and not just say... loud, overworked strings, brass, and percussion with ugly, loud synths. 

 

Exactly! I love when Powell goes crazy with the orchestra and gives us such exciting moments. Don Davis used to do this as well, albeit in a much darker context, like in the Matrix trilogy.

 

But these days Hollywood seems much more in love with the ear-splitting walls of sound that Nolan and Villeneuve use so much. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The sound of Nolan does produce the occasional moment of interest but it's usually when the composer has chosen an instrument or section and singled them out to do something interesting like a pattern or rhythm using brass or strings or percussion. (Oppenheimer excluded - I'm really liking it now)

 

Davis and Powell certainly do a similar thing to each other when they need chaos and I'm actually not a huge fan of this style. There are a few odd moments in Solo and JP/// where they are scoring chaos and the orchestra is following suit but with slightly less discernible structure. However, they make up for those with stunners like the Train Heist from Solo or the magnificent cage sequence from JP///. Neither films asked for nor particularly deserved such complex cues yet there they are. I know most would frown at suggestions of Williams levels of complexity and I'm sure he he had done those we'd end up with another Quidditch Match classic, but it can't be denied that these cues involve huge amounts of detail and care.

[Faleel 5,353]

Here is the suite:

 

 

I made two versions, one with a mocked up BIG ending, and one which repeats the opening of Viking Wedding:

 

 

11 hours ago, Faleel said:

Working on a suite of the theme in Legend Has It/Viking Wedding.

 

11 hours ago, bored said:

Such a beautiful theme. I love that it's an evolution of the original berk theme as shown in "Stronger Together" by playing them both at the same time.

 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The trilogy is complete and definitive 

 

As mentioned before, the first two say 3000 copies whereas the last says 2000. You'd think they're anticipating all puchasers of the first two to want to complete the set.

 

I also observe that the printed cover for this one looks fine - no pixellation or major artifacts. It's just the digital version that looks a bit suspect.

 

 

[Ollie 1,059]

I placed my order yesterday for both releases and I got a shipping notice from Varese a short while ago.

[filip 53]

6 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

They don't look that bad/off next to each other.

[Faleel 5,353]

1 and 3 are mirror images, never noticed that...

[Edmilson 7,466]

Just listened to the album. I have to be careful for my co-workers don't notice my tears. This score is wonderful! Loved it in 2019 and loved it again now. 

 

The OST did contain pretty much all the important stuff, but it's nice to have the complete score. 

 

It's so cool that after working on his concert and with John Williams on Solo, Powell's score for this movie is more... classical and less "Hollywood-like". I hope he never loses this on his future scores!

[filmmusic 1,829]

Are these Dragon scores that good?

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

I found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

[Faleel 5,353]

8 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

I found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

Yes.

 

Also, the first one is the least refined, and this last one is the most.

[Bespin 8,483]

13 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

 

All of this is simply a matter of personal taste, but as I tried to figure out which works of the 21st century were significant and "major" to me... I first chose the LOTR Trilogy by Howard Shore, then the 3 Harry Potter films by Williams... then, well, the beginning of this 21st century is probably the era of Hans Zimmer too (The Dark Knight, Inception, name your favorite scores here)... but, but, but... also... John Powell and his Dragon trilogy... I think that's major too.

 

Note: BTW I'm curious to know how much of Powell's OSTs contain micro-edited material compared to the originally recorded cues. Is John Powell known for incorporating many micro-edits into his OSTs?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

52 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The OST did contain pretty much all the important stuff, but it's nice to have the complete score. 

 

Yes, I think the only major missing cue is Grimmel's Surprise - the other smaller ones are nice-to-haves, as are the sections missing from Busy Berk and Armada Battle. New Berk Feast is also a really lovely cue. But that's only part of the appeal of course - a nice remastering (subtle, but it's there) is always welcome, and the first time the suite has been on CD, I believe.

 

Interestingly I fully agree with the microedits Powell did for the OST but as always it's nice to have the full cues to be able to go definitive on all three.

[Tallguy 3,398]

22 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

 

Yup.

[Jay 37,369]

25 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

 

They're amazing

 

25 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

 

Different people like different things

 

25 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

 

I don't find that curious in the slightest

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

30 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

 

I think relentless is an apt description. 

 

30 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

 

That's super weird!

[Luka 242]

30 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

I found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

 

If you ask me, they're some of the best scores ever. But it depends on what style you tend to appreciate. I love high energy complex stuff. That's why Powell is one of my favourites (and not so much Hans, for example).

[Edmilson 7,466]

22 minutes ago, Faleel said:

Yes.

 

Also, the first one is the least refined, and this last one is the most.

Pretty much, yeah. Which is why I struggle a little bit more with the first one than with the other two. It's still a truly amazing score (should've won the Oscar that year! ) but Powell's music for the franchise got progressively better with each movie.

[crocodile 8,017]

9 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Pretty much, yeah. Which is why I struggle a little bit more with the first one than with the other two. It's still a truly amazing score (should've won the Oscar that year! ) but Powell's music for the franchise got progressively better with each movie.

It's just a shame sound mixing people on the third one didn't seem to think so.

 

Karol

[bored 309]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

It's just a shame sound mixing people on the third one didn't seem to think so.

 

 

The second movie had the same problem for me. I couldn't hear a damn bit of the score in the movie itself at least half the time. The third one at least has a few more moments where there's not too much going on sound-wise so the music can shine more. 

 

4 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

4 hours ago, Faleel said:

Also, the first one is the least refined, and this last one is the most.

 

Definitely, but there's plenty of gems in the first one as well! Absolutely a lot of hectic, bombastic/relentless action, but plenty of lovely quieter moments as well, such as "Romantic Flight", "Forbidden Friendship", "This is Berk's" intro, "Where's Hiccup?", "Coming Back Around", and "The Vikings Have Their Tea". Not to mention the sheer thematic depth even in the first film. 

[Faleel 5,353]

1 minute ago, bored said:

 

The second movie had the same problem for me. I couldn't hear a damn bit of the score in the movie itself at least half the time. The third one at least has a few more moments where there's not too much going on sound-wise so the music can shine more. 

 

 

Definitely, but there's plenty of gems in the first one as well! Absolutely a lot of hectic, bombastic/relentless action, but plenty of lovely quieter moments as well, such as "Romantic Flight", "Forbidden Friendship", "This is Berk's" intro, "Where's Hiccup", "Coming Back Around", and "The Vikings Have Their Tea". Not to mention the thematic depth even in the first film. 

I love that little harp and flute bit in See You Tomorrow.

[bored 309]

Just now, Faleel said:

I love that little harp and flute bit in See You Tomorrow.

 

Absolutely, and I still love the whole score, but if someone's not into bombastic music in general, those would be the highlights with the least of that.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

14 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

 

I'd give the DE of the second a go before firming your opinion. They may just not be your thing, but the first score is the least refined and balanced of the three, with a lot of action/chaos music. #2 has a lot more variety in its sound.

 

Although I'm on your side with how bombastic his music can be. I struggle to listen to Solo in large quantities - great score but very loud and busy.

 

But to your first point, I echo the 'yes'. Most live action films would dream of scores of this quality and thematic depth - they completely outgrow a kids' animation series. And I've stated before but in my personal view, Powell has a talent with underscore types of cues where they are never boring or static even for dull dialogue scenes; something I think he does better sometimes even than (angry villagers incoming) Williams.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Grimmel's Surprise really is the best new cue!!

 

It's fantastic!!! That joyful statement of the Furies In Love theme which then gets blown away by Grinmel's is soo incredible!

[mstrox 6,651]

16 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Are these Dragon scores that good?

I tried to listen to the first one, but I found it too bombastic for my ears, as I find most of Powell's music.

I found it curious that all three of them were also released as sheet music books from Omni Music.

I’ll be the supportive voice for you.  They’re fine, but they’re just okay Powell scores imo.  I have to say, the first score improved for me with the expansion.  Not enough for me to have bothered listening to the expansion for the second one yet, but I think it clarifies the structure of the score a little bit.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The second benefits from its expansion most imo, as it's got the most missing (~20 mins).

 

Although in context of the FYC promos, the DEs aren't presenting mountains of new, unheard material like we get with a lot of other Varese DEs. My main highlight of #2 was actually hearing the Where No One Goes arrangements, with the rest of the set largely being a remastered, official version of the promo which I'd adopted as my default playlist many moons before we even know these were coming.

 

I'd actually say the OST for Hidden World is perfectly sufficient if you're a very casual follower of these scores, and it's a really good listening presentation. Those of us with a stronger connection get a nice remaster, a proper C&C presentation and 10 minutes or so of extra music. (Plus the demos, although they're generally a short term curiosity for me)

[filip 53]

And I'm going to argue the FIRST benefits the most in DE form, due to the utter shite mastering of the original OST.

 

(To be fair, I don't have the Hidden World DE yet.)

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

4 hours ago, filip said:

And I'm going to argue the FIRST benefits the most in DE form, due to the utter shite mastering of the original OST.

 

(To be fair, I don't have the Hidden World DE yet.)

I’d agree. It’s a lot more natural sounding in the expanded edition. The extra music also makes it a more balanced listening experience (same with Solo) and gives the music room to breathe.

 

One thing i especially love about the HTTYD scores (and other Powell scores of course) is how glorious the performance seems to be. Rich brass, especially the horns and absolutely gorgeous use of orchestral colour which is so vividly captured. I’ve mentioned it before but when the horns bring in the main theme in Test Drive about a minute in, I’ve rarely heard horn chords sounding so rich and resonant. Compare it to the (very well performed) Serebrier conducted compilation and the sound in that track isn’t nearly so gorgeous (and the Philharmonia is an excellent orchestra). Maybe he and Gavin Greenaway drive the orchestra harder for those sections but the results are wonderful. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

2 is my fave and I've come to love 3 but let's face it: The "hits" are in 1. Test Drive, Forbidden Friendship, Romantic Flight, See You Tomorrow, Coming Back Around (the piano solo, at least).

 

The only thing that comes close to those in terms of covers, high school band concerts, etc. is The Dancing and the Dreaming from 2. IMHO.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Those are the original hits but I've found many in #2 and 3 that are suggestive of longer term classics.

 

Although Romantic Flight will always be known as one of the first 'wow' cues.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

I'd say each score has their "hits".

 

1.

This Is Berk

Forbidden Friendship

See You Tomorrow

Test Drive

Romantic Flight

Where's Hiccup

Coming Back Around

 

2.

Dragon Racing

Flying With Mother

Battle Of The Bewliderbeasts

Hiccup Confronts Drago

Stoick's Ship

Toothless Found

Two New Alphas

 

3.

Legend Has It

Exodus!

Third Date

Furies In Love

The Hidden World

Armada Battle

Once There Were Dragons

 

But honestly. What I feel is so cool and strong about these score is that Powell makes sure that something interesting is happening all the time.

Be it big brass statements, sweeping strings, dancing woodwinds, percussion going nuts, choir singing for if their lives depended on it or even the quieter pizzicato or percussion or the solo harp or pianos.

 

I could listen to all 3 scores in a row (OST or deluxe) and not be distracted by anything else. Powell grabs your fullest attention and doesn't let you go until he means to.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

39 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

What I feel is so cool and strong about these score is that Powell makes sure that something interesting is happening all the time.

 

This is actually how I feel about Powell in general, and why I pretty much regard him as the modern Goldsmith. He's ALWAYS doing something interesting even in "throwaway cues" (i.e. those really just don't exist, for him). There's no tiresome repetition. He's always varying something.

 

Yavar

[bored 309]

You can really hear his technique in action in his music of layering 4 piano tracks that act as the different parts of the orchestra. The scores are just so layered and have incredible attention to detail.

[Faleel 5,353]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I’d agree. It’s a lot more natural sounding in the expanded edition. The extra music also makes it a more balanced listening experience (same with Solo) and gives the music room to breathe.

 

One thing i especially love about the HTTYD scores (and other Powell scores of course) is how glorious the performance seems to be. Rich brass, especially the horns and absolutely gorgeous use of orchestral colour which is so vividly captured. I’ve mentioned it before but when the horns bring in the main theme in Test Drive about a minute in, I’ve rarely heard horn chords sounding so rich and resonant. Compare it to the (very well performed) Serebrier conducted compilation and the sound in that track isn’t nearly so gorgeous (and the Philharmonia is an excellent orchestra). Maybe he and Gavin Greenaway drive the orchestra harder for those sections but the results are wonderful. 

I agree, and how many other scores (heck anything) these days have Celli sections that "sing" as much as the one in Flying with Mother?

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

6 minutes ago, Faleel said:

I agree, and how many other scores (heck anything) these days have Celli sections that "sing" as much as the one in Flying with Mother?

Quite. That whole cue is full of amazing textures (I can’t for the life of me work out why it’s not in the suite on the Serebrier album as it’s clearly one of the standout tracks of the score both musically and within the film). 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

HTTYD2 is my favorite score of the 2010s. How anyone can call it “just ok” is beyond me.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Fucking hell it’s great reading so many positive comments in this thread and not just vacuous “they’re great” but plentiful reasons as to why they’re great and those details that make them great not just because they have good themes or are exciting or are beautiful or whatever, but an appreciation of all the craft that’s gone into them. 

[Jay 37,369]

JWFan is better than everything!

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Flying With Mother is fantastic!!

The female voices singing in the middle together with the basses is so joyful!

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

3 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Flying With Mother is fantastic!!

The female voices singing in the middle together with the basses is so joyful!

It is. I just listened to the suite and it really doesn’t do the score justice at all, whereas the suite for the first one is a belter. Just have to listen to the whole thing then. Oh no… 😮 

[bored 309]

20 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

HTTYD2 is my favorite score of the 2010s. How anyone can call it “just ok” is beyond me.

 

HTTYD 3 is mine. The choral writing, and overall more symphonic style really makes it feel like a fully matured series through the score alone. 

[Faleel 5,353]

3 minutes ago, bored said:

 

HTTYD 3 is mine. The choral writing, and overall more symphonic style really makes it feel like a fully matured series through the score alone. 

It's quite good.

 

I just wish I liked the Light Fury material more.

 

S: New Berk / Exodus theme

A: Hidden World

B: Light Fury, Action Music

 

[bored 309]

New Berk / The Village Hymn is the highlight of the score, if for no other reason than for the choral versions played in "Once There Were Dragons". 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The part across all 3 scores that always made me anticipate greatness is the openings, and This Is Berk set the standard, but I love how all 3 movies start slightly differently, with #2 starting more dramatic, leading into a reminder suite that is Dragon Racing. Then Busy Berk is one of my favourite openings ever with that build-up at 4:03 going into the full orchestral Berk theme in a 'one last time' sort of way - the detail in the brass and woodwinds as the Berk theme starts - that's a composer having fun.

 

#2 takes an honourable second place due to the extensive Alpha and Valka theme usage, but the mature sound of #3, and the fact that he's using all his themes together - with the long-lined and choral statements of the new themes. That and The Hidden World is so unusual that it caused someone who isn't into soundtracks to comment that it was a beautiful piece in the car just after it came out.

 

My main issue is I have to be careful not to overlisten. I got a bit saturated with Romance In The Clouds on the OST (even had the main buildup as my ringtone for a bit) so I still have to step back a bit sometimes and pay more attention to some of the less prominent tracks now and again.

[Luka 242]

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Powell makes sure that something interesting is happening all the time.

Be it big brass statements, sweeping strings, dancing woodwinds, percussion going nuts, choir singing for if their lives depended on it or even the quieter pizzicato or percussion or the solo harp or pianos.

 

This describes very well what I love about his music! 

[Tallguy 3,398]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

a reminder suite

 

What a wonderful and accurate phrase.

[Faleel 5,353]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

What a wonderful and accurate phrase.

Reminiscence Therapy

[Tallguy 3,398]

Ahhhh.

 

 

I'm enjoying the sequencing more than the original album. I'm not sure if they're that different. (But this one says "Deluxe"!) I can't believe that the original didn't use the title "Forbidden Courtship" instead of "Third Date".

[Faleel 5,353]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

Ahhhh.

 

 

I'm enjoying the sequencing more than the original album. I'm not sure if they're that different. (But this one says "Deluxe"!) I can't believe that the original didn't use the title "Forbidden Courtship" instead of "Third Date".

Probably because it's not really forbidden.

[Molly Weasley 100]

On 04/03/2024 at 2:48 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

I think relentless is an apt description. 

 

On 05/03/2024 at 9:22 AM, filip said:

And I'm going to argue the FIRST benefits the most in DE form, due to the utter shite mastering of the original OST.

 

 

I'm curious if anyone else feels the Hidden World DE has a really weird EQ (esp. compared to the OST). Granted, I've only listened in my car so far, but it seems like the modern smiley-face EQ is fairly exaggerated on this album. Missing a lot of the mids.

 

I really noticed it when I got to my favorite little trumpet part at the end of Armada battle (7:33 of ost). People have pointed out the brass richness in Powell's scores, and I miss that on the DE. This type of EQ definitely fatigues the ear faster as well. There's less clarity between layers and it's already very dense.

 

[Princeling1987 22]

On 05/03/2024 at 9:47 PM, Tom Guernsey said:

Fucking hell it’s great reading so many positive comments in this thread and not just vacuous “they’re great” but plentiful reasons as to why they’re great and those details that make them great not just because they have good themes or are exciting or are beautiful or whatever, but an appreciation of all the craft that’s gone into them. 

 

I think that the HTTYD Soundtrack Trilogy is the second best of all time right behind the LOTR Trilogy and before anything Star Wars.

 

I think that Powell is the best composer of the 2010's thanks to the HTTYD Trilogy, MNM, Pan, Ferdinand, Solo.

 

So you're damn right, this thread has been a great read for a Powell fan!!