Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[Holko 9,532]

That's a badge of honor.

[Brónach 1,302]

it's normal for movies to be bad or have flaws

[Alex 2,835]

https://twitter.com/battywanderer/status/1669763346130956290?s=46&t=qD_26VYTJS4cdEm47c4eUg

[TolkienSS 407]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

it's normal for movies to be bad 

 

WTF

17 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Guarantee you never blamed her for KOTCS

 

Honest question for you...

 

Why is Kathleen Kennedy the boogieman to you guys?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

So since you are "genuinely curious", let me put it in real simple words so even you folks get it:

 

In 2006, in a room with George Lucas and Steven Spielberg and Frank Marshall doing an Indiana Jones film, Kathleen Kennedy meant jack shit in the process.

 

In 2023, with Kathleen Kennedy being the head of Lucasfilm, with people under her, she's bleeding failure and money from all conceivable departments, projects and orifices, that she as head is responsible for, to a point where Disney is about to sell it.

She is not able or not willing to make Disney-Lucasfilm even semi-successful, so that possible future movies under those Lucasfilm brand names will either not be made, be teinted, or will have to deliver superhuman efforts to restore the image.

 

I know crediting responsibilities is not hugely popular with fanboy crowds, but crediting Kennedy with the shitshow that was Lucasfilm for years now, is nothing more than stating the obvious.

 

And this film will be the final cherry of her magnum opus. I honestly can't wait for the, what was is, "review bombing", which is apparently the new apologist term for bad movies getting the bad reviews they deserve.

[Bellosh 3,419]

@TolkienSS

 

I actually appreciate a response from you.

 

I understand that she's in charge, believe me. But most of that is just your opinion, excluding the financial troubles (if there are any, but again, hard to truly equate with them being bad to money problems). But if you do truly think they're worried about money, I'm sure they will move on from her if financial problems continue.  And all will be good with the franchise that has (maaaaaaaaaaybe) 3 ACTUAL good movies right? (i dont know which movies you like out of star wars) Personally I think Empire and ANH are the only true good ones.  The rest are just the filler to the story.

 

But if you're allowed to take the bad reviews from critics, you need to also accept that there are well acclaimed projects that she was a part of: Rogue One, TFA, TLJ, Andor, Mando series.  You don't just get to pick and choose which critic reviews count.  Those all have decent reviews.

 

Lucas was never spread this thin.  That's why I think it's an overall "The Mouse" problem.  I don't think you can flood the market with so many different star wars projects and expect them to all be amazing.

 

Anyways, I'm no star wars or KK fanboy.  I haven't seen any of the disney shows and only liked TLJ. still have never seen TROS.

 

My overall point (that's not directed to you or anyone on this forum), and like how darth dementous said, a lot 'KK specific' hate turns unsavory quickly and that there's some woke agenda/political/whatever nonsense behind her decisions.  It's already happened with Phoebe in DoD. If you think I'm making that up out of thin air, then i don't know what to tell you. And we can't even discuss it here anyways. So I probably shouldn't have even brought her up to begin with!

[TolkienSS 407]

@Bellosh

So much for "just genuinely curious". Should have known better than replying, and translated it correctly in the first place as "I can't conceivably match my fandom with reality, so if your point makes sense, I will act as if I didn't understand".

 

Hopefully the 28th is coming and going soon, so it can fade into awkward obscurity.

[Bellosh 3,419]

wtf?

 

its not that your points didn't make sense, its that they were mostly JUST YOUR OPINION.  And all based on feeling.

 

feelings aren't facts.

 

you simply can't credit her for anything that was good.  but it aligns with most of your posts here, for better or worse, you just simply don't seem to like much stuff. which is fine dude.

 

edit: oh no! that dork that harrasses people in private messages is giving me the confused emoji treatment as well 

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Most stuff is crap anyway. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Most stuff is crap anyway. 

 

to quote jay, ya.

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

What? Jay watches everything. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

no jay responds with 'ya'

 

try to keep up here

[Faleel 5,360]

I thought it was "yea"

[Alex 2,835]

The peak of cinema was The Great Muppet Caper anyway. It’s not going to get better than that.

[Bellosh 3,419]

No!  All space sword fighting movies have to be perfect!!!!!

 

[Faleel 5,360]

11 minutes ago, Alex said:

The peak of cinema was The Great Muppet Caper anyway. It’s not going to get better than that.

 

[Demodex 557]

I don't get the KK hate. Except for TROS I've liked everything I've seen in SW since TFA. 

 

Rogue One, Andor, and TLJ are my favorites so far. 

[Jay 37,374]

A large amount of people who blame Kathleen Kennedy for ruining Star Wars and/or Indiana Jones are misogynists, probably mostly ones who do not even realize that they are.

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

The very end of this interview (12:06) is really nice. I never really see Ford get emotional much in interviews, so to see him struggling to find the words after he's being thanked for bringing this character to life is really sweet.

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

A large amount of people who blame Kathleen Kennedy for ruining Star Wars and/or Indiana Jones are misogynists, probably mostly ones who do not even realize that they are.

 

You know my views regarding the current state of pop culture and even I don't mind Kathleen Kennedy for the main reason she got JW on board to score the sequel movies and write themes for Solo, Obi-Wan and Galaxy's edge. And I actually like Rey as a character and think The Last Jedi is the best movie of the sequels.

 

That said ,  your post got lots of likes for the wrong reasons (hurling the "misogynist"  label at a portion of the fans who don't like the direction the Star Wars franchise is headed or have reservations about the creative choices being made)

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

iirc, Jay didn’t particularly like most of the Disney Star Wars movies so he’s not swooping in to defend LFL’s recent work (and he said “a large amount of people who blame Kathleen Kennedy,” which is a subcategory of a subcategory).  It’s a pretty narrow read to think that what he’s saying is being dismissive of Star Wars fans’ legitimate concerns, and it wasn’t even a particularly hot take - what he is saying is pretty evident if you click any Facebook comments on the Star Wars account’s posts or engage with the fandom in any meaningful way.

[King Mark 3,631]

I've decided to only reply occasionally at these type of topics because it was annoying to some people (at least I can admit it) , but whenever I see accusations of racism, misogyny or whatever phobia being used against a portion of the fanbase who don't like some changes made to established characters or franchises I'm going to at least say something.

[Jay 37,374]

Sure, Mark, misogyny and racism do not exist, and are never the reasons for anything some people do or say 🙄

[Bellosh 3,419]

It's actually my fault for bringing up KK in the first place from that review.

 

My intention of mentioning the hate she was getting is focused on people who don't even deserve the attention.  Also the reasons that I think those people hate her are close to impossible to discuss here due to forum rules (for the best)

 

So my apologies. I by no means think someone who dislikes some of her choices (or all?) is a misogynist.  I do believe that some haters simply can't admit when she's done something right. I feel thats given at this point. That's when you know you might be dealing with someone who's acting in bad faith.

 

But anyways, my bad.

[Jay 37,374]

Anyone else never read or watch reviews for upcoming movies you were gonna see anyway, and just go into them with an open mind?

[Bellosh 3,419]

It's tough with this film I'll be honest.  Still feels surreal there's an Indy film coming out 😂

[King Mark 3,631]

22 minutes ago, Jay said:

Sure, Mark, misogyny and racism do not exist, and are never the reasons for anything some people do or say 🙄

Anyways it was just some thoughts don't take them personal please.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone else never read or watch reviews for upcoming movies you were gonna see anyway, and just go into them with an open mind?

 I never read any of them in advance. Loved the Guardians of the Galaxy 3 movie and it was  proof they can still make good movies when they focus on the characters and good storytelling .

 

Even if only the JW score is the only thing good about Indy 5 I'll be happy.

 

22 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

. I by no means think someone who dislikes some of her choices (or all?) is a misogynist.  I do believe that some haters simply can't admit when she's done something right. I feel thats given at this point. That's when you know you might be dealing with someone who's acting in bad faith.

 

 That's a better way of putting it.  Personally I still feel positive about the new Star Wars movies and TV series they released so far, and I agree some people are too harsh on her.

 

And for or better of for worse, if Disney hadn't acquired the rights to Star Wars we'd have absolutely nothing since Revenge of the Sith.

[TolkienSS 407]

Yes we would: the dream of new great Star Wars movies.

The dream of something great is superior to the realization of something subpar.

[Bellosh 3,419]

The dude that invented them only made (arguably) 2 great ones.

 

But good luck.

[Jay 37,374]

27 minutes ago, King Mark said:

if Disney hadn't acquired the rights to Star Wars we'd have absolutely nothing since Revenge of the Sith.

 

How do you figure?  George was always going to sell Lucasfilm, Disney is just who happened to win.  In some multiverse, Sony got it instead, or Warner, or Amazon, or whatever

[King Mark 3,631]

also they were made in time that John Williams wasn't yet too old to score them

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

How do you figure?  George was always going to sell Lucasfilm, Disney is just who happened to win.  In some multiverse, Sony got it instead, or Warner, or Amazon, or whatever

 Well it could be, but the deal as it happened in this universe made it possible for John Williams to still be involved.

[Edmilson 7,473]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

In some multiverse, Sony got it instead

Spider-Man as a Jedi!

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Warner

Batman vs Darth Vader!

 

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Amazon

The TV-MA crossover between Invincible and Star Wars!

[King Mark 3,631]

I still remember when Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull was going to be released in 2007, I was pretty sure it was JW's last score and was even worried he might pass away before the recording sessions, yet here we are a decade later with 3 more Star Wars scores and waiting for another Indiana Jones score

[Bellosh 3,419]

7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Spider-Man as a Jedi!

 

Batman vs Darth Vader!

 

The TV-MA crossover between Invincible and Star Wars!

 

 

 

[Jay 37,374]

6 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I still remember when Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull was going to be released in 2007, I was pretty sure it was JW's last score and was even worried he might pass away before the recording sessions, yet here we are a decade later with 3 more Star Wars scores and waiting for another Indiana Jones score

 

Not to mention Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln, Book Thief, The BFG, The Post, and the Fabelmans!

[Brónach 1,302]

oh man Tintin and War Horse

[Jay 37,374]

Two of my favorite film scores of all time

[Brando 1,864]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Anyone else never read or watch reviews for upcoming movies you were gonna see anyway, and just go into them with an open mind?

It’s extremely liberating let me tell ya 

[Bellosh 3,419]

I knew everything about The Last Jedi before watching it and its probably my 4th favorite star wars movie behind the OT.  I also was still very surprised at certain points.

 

I took a chance with reading the leaks of Indy 5 and I feel like I will enjoy it all the same.

[King Mark 3,631]

6 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

I knew everything about The Last Jedi before watching it and its probably my 4th favorite star wars movie behind the OT.  I also was still very surprised at certain points.

 

 

 Yeah, and I was around when the Star Wars Prequels were released . In those days the "fans" trashed George Lucas much worse than Kathleen Kennedy today

[Bellosh 3,419]

That is true!

 

But now people adore those movies.

 

Maybe time will fix the Disney trilogy to those people 

[Edmilson 7,473]

14 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

I knew everything about The Last Jedi before watching it and its probably my 4th favorite star wars movie behind the OT.

Going into The Last Jedi, I only knew that reviews were amazing, so I already started watching expecting something good. But the biggest spoiler I knew beforehand was that Yoda was going to appear, thanks to John Williams 

 

10 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Maybe time will fix the Disney trilogy to those people 

Much like it happened with the Prequels, eventually the kids that grew up with the Sequels will become adults and spread all over the internet how these movies are "good, actually".

[Bellosh 3,419]

I'm probably not helping my cause with this comment....but it's going to take a lot for me to want to like and appreciate the emperor being back in TROS.

 

I just couldn't believe it.  Like we had Kylo set up to be the ultimate bad guy/redemption and they just caved to bringing back that wrinkly old sith

 

😞

[King Mark 3,631]

13 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

I'm probably not helping my cause with this comment....but it's going to take a lot for me to want to like and appreciate the emperor being back in TROS.

 

 

 well it's more the way he was brought back. He's just back, no mystery as to how..it just says in the opening crawl and everyone already knows about it

[Bellosh 3,419]

Yeah that too. Horrible decision.

[Andy 4,141]

The Clone Wars primed us for that sort of story expectation with the cockamamie return of Darth Maul. Equally stupid, yet somehow more accepted by fans. 

[King Mark 3,631]

Actually, i thought Darth Maul showing up at the end of Solo was a very cool  moment and well executed.

 

Solo is also a very underrated movie

[mrbellamy 6,293]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Much like it happened with the Prequels, eventually the kids that grew up with the Sequels will become adults and spread all over the internet how these movies are "good, actually".

 

That and some other bullshit will happen in the following decades (probably AI related) that will make all the things people hate about the sequels look quaint, like Jar Jar and midichlorians now. 

 

VIII and IX already did that themselves with Force Awakens, it was nothing but "Mary Sue, Mary Sue, Mary Sue" for two years and now Rey's OPness might not even be top ten on the list of things people hate about the sequels lol. 

 

I also believe that once all the OT personnel are dead, Rise of Skywalker will feel different. It'll still be a lame story but Star Wars fans will have gotten bored being so angry about it and start to feel affectionate about the fact that everyone's in it. It'll never be an Empire Strikes Back or even a Revenge of the Sith but I don't think it'll be viewed any worse than Attack of the Clones is lately. 

[Andy 4,141]

14 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Actually, i thought Darth Maul showing up at the end of Solo was a very cool  moment and well executed.

I did too, except that Maul had already been resurrected from the dead in the cartoon series for a couple years by the time Solo was released.  His inclusion in that film doesn’t make up for the fact that story wise, he was able to defeat death because of his intense hatred keeping him alive. 
 

The problem I have with that is it contradicts what George set out to make abundantly clear in ROTS, that selflessness like Qui-Gon would lead to immortality, and the Sith were flawed for wanting to cheat death by gaining more power through hate and greed.   Maul essentially succeeded when we were told that was not the way. 

[Tom 4,673]

Look, there are some really bad decisions KK has made, beginning with no real plan for the sequel trilogy.  However, as King Mark said, she has been just about perfect with regards to JW (and, at the end of the day, that is the primary reason I even care about these things).  Han Solo, Galaxy's Edge, Obi-Wan.  I think many, many movie executives would have gone with the cheapest (i.e., not JW) option on these things.  She seems to truly value his contributions and seems protective of him.  

[Edmilson 7,473]

20 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Actually, i thought Darth Maul showing up at the end of Solo was a very cool  moment and well executed.

 

I saw Solo with my mother and my brothers, who are all very, very casual Star Wars fans. Really, their knowledge of SW is extremely limited. So, when Maul appeared, my mom did not recognized him (in fact I don't even know if she ever saw The Phantom Menace from the beginning to the end) and my brother actually questioned me why was he there since he died years ago in the chronology of the franchise. 

 

He, like many casuals in the audience, wasn't aware that Maul not only was brought back from the dead in the animated series but also had become the leader of a criminal empire or something, like space Don Corleone. I had to explain it to them, even though my own knowledge on the subject matter is limited (I saw just a handful of Clone Wars and the entirety of Rebels, which features Maul but only after he had been humiliatingly kicked out of the leadership of the criminal empire and was in the gutter once again).

 

This is why I think the prospect of a SW theatrical movie based on the cartoons and TV shows is very risky. No one except diehard SW fans have done the necessary amount of homework to understand the Filoniverse movie.