Popular Post leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 I leave for a few hours and find everyone quoting me and telling me what I think. If it hasn't been clear enough yet, I'll say it again - I was expecting a score that was majority Powell. Of course with Williams doing the main theme, Powell was immediately going to be limited in his own material, unlike Giacchino who had 95% of his own music, and the chance to write his own main theme if you will. But even with Powell's material, I found myself rolling my eyes quite a bit at Williams theme being referenced countless times, because of it being in basically every track. I think it is overused. I know that Powell had no choice but to use it a lot as it's Han's themes, but I am disappointed overall that I find Williams A phrase to be underwhelming and it's overuse therefore isn't welcome to me. And my overall desire to have a Composer do the film themselves and not inherit the key aspects of a score from another. Whether it's the master or not. Others enjoy his RCP percussion, but to me it sounds like a Zimmer-obsessed teenager who wanted to "epic" up Williams original themes. I really really cringed when I heard 'Reminiscient Therapy.' I can't help my dislike for it, it was an immediate reaction of dislike at how Powell handled the many callbacks. However, I really like Powell's love theme and I literally said "wow" outloud when listening to 'Lando's Closet.' I also like the aggressive villainous theme. Not sure what it's for because I wont be seeing the film, but it's slightly 'out there' for Star Wars and I dig it. There are positives for me, but overall I am disappointed. But I guess people will now call me an idiot, which they have already done above, and tell me how trashy Giacchino's score is etc, even though I find his Rogue One score vastly superior to Powell's Solo. But to each their own. Sharkissimo, Bilbo, TheUlyssesian and 2 others 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 I fully acknowledge and respect your opinion, but you are wrong. 1977, Evanus, crumbs and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, John said: I fully acknowledge and respect your opinion, but you are wrong. And I would reply; I fully acknowledge and respect your opinion, but I disagree. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 Good grief, what is all this about RCP percussion (which I assume means low but boosted surdos, taikos, big bass drums etc.)? Am I the only one who doesn't hear anything of the sort in this score? I hear...percussion. Are some people just allergic to anything with a beat now? 1977, BLUMENKOHL, crumbs and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It's a general and a little stupid label I know, but I only say that to express that I think the percussion is weak and generic, and doesn't fit for me. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, TGP said: Good grief, what is all this about RCP percussion (which I assume means low but boosted surdos, taikos, big bass drums etc.)? Am I the only one who doesn't hear anything of the sort in this score? Exactly. ROTS with its thudding daikos sounded more "RCP" (an epithet that's becoming more meaningless and this thread wears on) than this. This is a lighter, airier prelayed percussion sound common to Powell, Arnold, HGW and their 90s contemporaries. The fact that it's elicited such a visceral reaction here is... predictable, yet somewhat amusing. MikeH, crumbs and Kasey Kockroach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It surprises me that you aren't the least bit bothered going from Williams masterful orchestration of his theme in track 1, straight into track 2 where Powell just adds a very generic synth sounding percussion under it. To me that was very jarring. I cannot help my immediately instinctive reaction. It's not like I'm on a witch hunt for Powell's blood. I am just surprised and saddened by my initial reaction to the score. I don't give a single crap about Star Wars anymore. TFA and TLJ has ruined it for me now. I love Rogue One, but I have zero interest in Solo, only the score. I was so looking forward to it. And now Star Wars has nothing to interest me anymore. Only Williams doing Episode 9 is keeping me inside the Star Wars universe. And the hopeful prospect that JNH will do a Spinoff. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Williams hasn't done anything "masterful" since 1997. crumbs, Yavar Moradi, TheUlyssesian and 5 others 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It's two different composers, recorded by two different orchestras in two different countries. Of course there's a difference. Are you really surprised that not everyone is bothered by it, as though everyone would have the same opinion that you do? Besides, Chewie's theme has shaped up to be better than what Williams contributed I reckon, not that there is anything bad about the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,640 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Williams hasn't done anything "masterful" since 1997. Surely Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, at least? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It's obviously not a BAD theme, otherwise not even Powell would be able to do anything with it. It's just the Williams version sounds every bit as tired and weightless as people complain Goldsmith to be in the 90's/early 2000's (except in this case, Williams really has been on autopilot). Just now, Yavar Moradi said: Surely Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, at least? Yavar Not being masterful doesn't necessarily mean lack of merit entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, TGP said: It's two different composers, recorded by two different orchestras in two different countries. Of course there's a difference. I'm talking about the quality of orchestration, hence why I said orchestration. 4 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Williams hasn't done anything "masterful" since 1997. Hahahahahahahahabababababhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahah Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 That's the one thing I wouldn't say is markedly different. Powell is an excellent orchestrator. If you don't like electronics and percussion, that doesn't change that fact. MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 To clarify, Williams hasn't done anything TERRIBLE. He just hasn't been interesting. And rest assured, he doesn't need to. He's more than earned the right to phone it in at this point. But even Giacchino intrigues me more nowadays, despite the constantly-mentioned fact that he's inferior. Mitth'raw'nuorodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,052 Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well of course there is a difference. And, of course, Williams orchestrates better. But then, no other composer would be able to match it in this style. Not Powell, not James Newton Howard, not Giacchino, not Davis. And not even Horner. None of these guys can do that. So there's no surprise there. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I can't seem to find a site where it says it's available in store. Anyone? Nope! Just wasted 2+ hours of my day looking. The worst part was I went to stores where it *said* it was in stock but there weren’t any there. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: To clarify, Williams hasn't done anything TERRIBLE. He just hasn't been interesting. And rest assured, he doesn't need to. He's more than earned the right to phone it in at this point. I'm not sure how you function day to day believing that, but still. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, leeallen01 said: It surprises me that you aren't the least bit bothered going from Williams masterful orchestration of his theme in track 1, straight into track 2 where Powell just adds a very generic synth sounding percussion under it. You seem unable to see the wood from the trees, and are obsessively fixated on the "synth sound percussion." That ominous brass choir is Williams refracted through Powell's prism, the arcing string arpeggios (recalling A.I.'s Abandoned in the Woods) in that transitional passage are Williams but transformed by Powell into his own progression, the snappy trumpet punctuations are Powell channeling Williams... What more do you want? It sounds great to my ears. I can hear the influences of Arnold, Howard and Silvestri, but that to me is part of a broad post-Goldsmith vernacular that can't be trace to one particular composer. I agree with Jack that the Train Heist cue is somewhat Arnoldian in the drum programming and syncopations, but the orchestration is so much more transparent. While I'm not an Arnoldphobe (any more), he does tend to bog down his action music in unnecessary filigree, and fussy cadenza-like passages over dominant pedals. This is refreshingly free of that. MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, leeallen01 said: I'm not sure how you function day to day believing that, but still. I function listening to John Powell, Christopher Young, among others. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,907 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I can't seem to find a site where it says it's available in store. Anyone? I'm sure you can find it at any Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, etc. that may be in your area, even if not listed on their websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breadstick Basilisk 108 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, DominicCobb said: Nope! Just wasted 2+ hours of my day looking. The worst part was I went to stores where it *said* it was listed but there weren’t any there. Try Barnes & Noble? I just ordered an in-store pick-up at a local one. Should (fingers crossed) get a text in an hour or few saying it's ready for me. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 If you have an opinion that lasts more than an hour, consult your doctor. leeallen01 and Mitth'raw'nuorodo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 What a wonderful score. Well done Mr. Powell. 1 hour ago, TGP said: Good grief, what is all this about RCP percussion (which I assume means low but boosted surdos, taikos, big bass drums etc.)? Am I the only one who doesn't hear anything of the sort in this score? I hear...percussion. Are some people just allergic to anything with a beat now? No sense arguing with fools, @TGP. Not Mr. Big and Sharkissimo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 44 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Williams hasn't done anything "masterful" since 1997. The Book Thief was masterful. Memoirs of a Geisha was masterful. The Horn Concerto was masterful. ROTS was masterful. Across the Stars was masterful Adventures of Han is masterful...... etc..... Bespin and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Sharky said: Wow, this didn't jump out at me on previous listens to The Patriot, but it rocks! Note the prefiguring of the Han theme at 2:32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Sharky said: Fucking reactionary idiots. I like it. FRIs. Don’t be an FRI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrayodiBA 520 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I found this two Powell's cues to be similar; the themes' structure, the arrangement, the layering, the percussion loop (albeit slower in Solo) I think this might be another Paul Mounsey arrangement ^ 1:25 onward ^ 2:15 onward Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, aside from a tad too much percussion and perhaps a smidgen of overreliance on Williams's A theme, I think Powell did quite a good job with the score. He has the touch. Lando's Closet and the second half of Testing Allegiance are almost masterful, the kind of writing we need more of these days. The texture of the latter, with piano, strings and harp and horn/woodwinds really brings Williams to mind, but I think Powell's approach is fresh. Quite outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 hours ago, DominicCobb said: One thing that was really interesting was how Powell handled the old Williams material. He wasn’t just referencing themes or motifs, but specific film cues (temp love?). I caught the Asteroid Field and Here They Come (obviously), a track with the Death Star motif (the specific one of which I’m forgetting), and I think the Battle of Crait? And that was all in one sequence. The obvious Asteroid Field melody is used briefly during, yes, a bit with asteroids, but other parts of the cue are used too (as well as maybe “Attacking a Star Destroyer” if I remember correctly?). It’s all during one big action set piece sequence which make me think there was some temp music editing involved. Okay, so anyone who's listened to the soundtrack will know I'm talking about "Reminiscence Therapy." Starts with a Death Star motif, goes into a bit from "Imperial Cruiser Pursuit," then "Attacking a Star Destroyer," then later has "Tie Fighter Attack (Here They Come)," various bits of "The Asteroid Field," some of which he does some cool variations on, and that stuff that sounds like "The Battle of Crait," which admittedly is also in the title suite Williams composed. I will say, on first impression of the soundtrack, Powell's best use of an existing theme is the main title when Solo sees the Falcon for the first time ("L3 & Millennium Falcon"), and in general I appreciate his use and interpretations of that theme and the Rebel fanfare, which is what I was hoping for from him in that regard (and little or no Force theme). I really like Han's theme, and am still trying to get into the other stuff, but I like it too, and melodically find it fits very well into the existing Star Wars soundscape. Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Has anyone attempted a comprehensive listing with YouTube links of the big statements of Powell's major themes? I ask because I have yet to identify L3's theme at all. Also, does that awesome, eminently Williamsy military motif in "Mine Mission" and "Break Out" have an official association, or is that a one-off Kessel melody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Sharky said: I know, right? "What are those awful RCP drums doing in a period score?!! Has Williams lost his mind?" Fucking reactionary idiots. What the fuck is up with these reactions? Is this 2003 all over again? What the hell, people? Not Mr. Big and SteveMc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said: What the fuck is up with these reactions? Is this 2003 all over again? What the hell, people? In general, classical music, as well as film music has fallen too much in love with percussion. That said, Powell did not go over the top in the score. I don't find any of the percussion to be overly Zimmeresque. On a different note, Mine Mission is also a brilliant track. Here, I think Powell was quite perfect in his use of percussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,528 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: On a different note, Mine Mission is also a brilliant track. Here, I think Powell was quite perfect in his use of percussion. It gets better every time I listen to it. In fact, I have an irresistible urge to transcribe it... SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 44 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said: No sense arguing with fools. Well, there’s a way to aid in the development of an engaging discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 There is nothing engaging debating people who have an ideological stance. Sorry. If you’ve decided that music with a beat is bad, then there is nothing to engage with you on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PrayodiBA 520 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, igger6 said: Has anyone attempted a comprehensive listing with YouTube links of the big statements of Powell's major themes? I ask because I have yet to identify L3's theme at all. Also, does that awesome, eminently Williamsy military motif in "Mine Mission" and "Break Out" have an official association, or is that a one-off Kessel melody? L3 theme is one of the obvious one, in regards to Powell's materials. It's also connected with a plot point in the movue L3 theme variations First heard in its "warming up" mode in this track at 00:04-00:15 then transitioned into a introductory mode at 00:26 - 00:35 But i think both aforementioned statements are not the original note I think this is the original one, at 00:01 - 00:14 and then it changes into a full millitary style march in "Mine Mission", a fugue on its own, and yes it's connected to the plot. You get the sense of rebellion because that what it is, at 00:26 onward and then goes into its glory mode at 00:12 - 00:18 in "Break Out" and then in its "hurry" mode at 4:10 - 4:18 and then changes into its sad mode, and by this point, you get the idea of whats going on in the plot 4:54 - 5:12 and then later on, in Reminscence Theraphy, you get to hear it in its Searching mode at 5:23 - 5:45. I love tis quiet arrangement with the flute. And yes this is tightly connected with the plot at this point Tiburon, Kasey Kockroach, DarthDementous and 5 others 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Would it be absurd to claim I've found Powell's only gotten better and better over the years in terms of maturing writing, orchestrations, etc? He's always been good obviously, but I find a world of difference between Ferdinand and, say, Antz. crumbs and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,138 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Sharky said: Fucking reactionary idiots. Yeah fuck those fuckers who form an opinion based on their reaction to something. I shouldn't stop eating a food if I don't like the taste of it. Instead, I should just keep eating it more and more before forming an opinion on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, leeallen01 said: I shouldn't stop eating a food if I don't like the taste of it. Mmmm, let's bring back the pizza discussion! The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Papa John's is better than everything! Not Mr. Big and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I actually first got into film scores when I needed something to listen to at work as a pizza delivery driver. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, leeallen01 said: Yeah fuck those fuckers who form an opinion based on their reaction to something. I shouldn't stop eating a food if I don't like the taste of it. Instead, I should just keep eating it more and more before forming an opinion on it... Yeah those food people are FRIs too. Children are particularly idiotic in this domain. If you don’t like spinach, it doesn’t mean you won’t like spanakopita. But FRI are ideologically opposed to the very concept of spinach, so they eat the spanakopita with the drive to hate it because it has spinach. They react to the concept rather than the real thing in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,528 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Would it be absurd to claim I've found Powell's only gotten better and better over the years in terms of maturing writing, orchestrations, etc? He's always been good obviously, but I find a world of difference between Ferdinand and, say, Antz. Not absurd at all, in fact, this is one of the main reasons why he's a favourite of mine. You can tell that he always tries even harder with each new score. Still, HTTYD is better than everything... Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Do the people that have problems against Powell's use of percussion also have a problem with something like TLW, for example? crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Muad'Dib said: Do the people that have problems against Powell's use of percussion also have a problem with something like TLW, for example? No, because percussion used by John Williams is pure. Percussion used by Powell (with old links to RCP) is impure. Holko, Kasey Kockroach and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The entire album is glorious, but seriously I just keep repeating the first 2 tracks over and over and over again. I'll eventually continue on! Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said: No, because percussion used by John Williams is pure. Percussion used by Powell (with old links to RCP) is impure. I bet if this exact album said Composed and Conducted by John Williams the naysayers couldn't stop coming.... and coming.... and coming. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,410 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, for one thing, if that were true, Kasey wouldn't be talking about it Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Fal said: Well, for one thing, if that were true, Kasey wouldn't be talking about it Kasey drives the pizza, Chief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said: I bet if this exact album said Composed and Conducted by John Williams the naysayers couldn't stop coming.... and coming.... and coming. Yep, they’d be praising how well Williams modernized Star Wars, and how refreshing it was to see him try something new. I mean how many of us came hard for “No Man’s Land” in War Horse for those very same reasons? MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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