Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 That line alone made me think the post was BS. I didn't really notice anything off with the music, nor do I imaging JJ did (I don't think that is something that someone at Disney would have tampered with, so it was probably JJ's choice to use that cue there). It seemed just like an obscure bit of wishful thinking on the poster's part. As Arpy said, he probably wanted something "EPIC!!!" Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 If Disney really took over the production demanding more fan service, isn't it more likely Duel of the Fates would've been pasted over the whole score? I think the simpler explanation is JJ just made a bad movie, and an associate of his is trying to push the blame onto Disney (knowing the toxic fandom hate Disney/KK/RJ and blame them for everything wrong with the ST). It's not like JJ has some flawless record, especially with sequels (Star Trek Into Darkness was hot garbage too). Arpy and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I'm impressed Williams didn't resort to his usual church music schtick in TROS like he did in TLJ and the prequels. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Thematically, the major variation of Ren's theme is one of the score's strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Þekþiþm said: I'm impressed Williams didn't resort to his usual church music schtick in TROS like he did in TLJ and the prequels. And I'm disappointed he didn't do just that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Ugh, those choirs get old and annoying real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted January 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 I never get tired of listening to all the choral bombast in Revenge of the Sith. It's incredible! I'm glad there's a much bigger choral presence in TROS than the other sequels, but it would have been nice to have more (maybe something for the saber battle atop the death star, which seemed the most obvious place for such a thing -- and seeing as everything else in the film is blatant fan service, they might as well have done the same with the music there). Edmilson, Arpy, Chen G. and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I disagree. They give gravitas to a dramatic, climatic battle, and helps diferentiating the music from the other action music on the score. Choir battles were everywhere on the 2000s, probably due to the success of Duel of the Fates: And that's not even counting for older examples, like Dark Side Beckons, which gave an epic, tragic quality to the last battle for the galaxy on ROTJ: Now compare this with the bland music Desplat wrote for the final confrontation between Harry and Voldy on Deathly Hallows 2: Silvestri showed more enthusiasm in scoring the fight between Brendan Fraser, a bald ressurected mummy and a horribly digitalized The Rock than the last battle for the fate of the whole universe on the biggest franchise of Hollywood: I'm glad that TROS has more choir than the previous two sequel trilogy movies, but still, I think a bigger presence at the very least on TLJ and TROS would've been great. Chen G. and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 It's overdone and gives me the shits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 It's trailer music and - as usual - Joe Schmoks idea of what 'great' music is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I don't get it, you guys are dismissing the scores of The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, the prequels, Dark Side Beckons, etc., as being just trailer music? The idea of what a simpleton with no musical knowledge, like myself, have of what good music is? Well, okay then. Guess I'll have to stop listening to these scores and go have a phD in musical theory or something, then I'll go back to here, where we can diss how horrible these kinds of scores are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Edmilson said: I don't get it, you guys are dismissing the scores of The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, the prequels, Dark Side Beckons, etc., as being just trailer music? The idea of what a simpleton with no musical knowledge, like myself, have of what good music is? Well, okay then. Guess I'll have to stop listening to these scores and go have a phD in musical theory or something, then I'll go back to here, where we can diss how horrible these kinds of scores are. It's fine in moderation, but when it roars constantly for, I dunno, "da feelz", I just get bored and tune out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Edmilson said: I don't get it, you guys are dismissing the scores of The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, the prequels, Dark Side Beckons, etc., as being just trailer music? The idea of what a simpleton with no musical knowledge, like myself, have of what good music is? Well, okay then. Guess I'll have to stop listening to these scores and go have a phD in musical theory or something, then I'll go back to here, where we can diss how horrible these kinds of scores are. It's just a matter of taste. I'm not very big on scores that take Wagnerian pomposity and dial it up to 11 for extended periods of time, personally. A little bit goes a long way for me. I love the LOTR scores, Shore does the operatic thing better than anyone, but in terms of which one I listen to on its own the most for pleasure, it's definitely Fellowship, the least grandiose one (but still plenty grandiose!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Edmilson said: I don't get it, you guys are dismissing the scores of The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, the prequels, Dark Side Beckons, etc., as being just trailer music? The idea of what a simpleton with no musical knowledge, like myself, have of what good music is? Who talks about scores, you talk about 'moments'. The way it's advertised above is *exactly* the kind of knee-jerk louder-is-better philosophy you and many others automatically confuse with great music. And often it's not, simply due to the fact that it's the easiest, musically boring way to convince people they just witnessed the second coming. Problem is, when every third-rate trailer uses it, how can it still achieve said effect? Boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I think Williams' ST scores would've been treated far kinder in the sound mix if he'd continued the type of choral excess of the prequels. It forces the sound guys to tone down their effects to allow for both vocal and orchestral elements in the mix, rather than just orchestral (which can easily be dialed down in the mix, and it clearly was). Instead, many scenes abandon score altogether simply because the effects are so loud (such as the ocean battle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, crumbs said: I think Williams' ST scores would've been treated far kinder in the sound mix if he'd continued the type of choral excess of the prequels. No, if the church music is constantly omnipresent in an attempt to highlight everything as a moment of grand significance, then nothing is significant. 12 minutes ago, publicist said: And often it's not, simply due to the fact that it's the easiest, musically boring way to convince people they just witnessed the second coming. Good thing The Final Conflict has it in the sweet spots. Kasey Kockroach and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 And also mixes it with musically more interesting devices, i. e. the satanic whispering in 'The Second Coming'. Most of Williams' ROTS isn't apocalyptic, excuse me, 'operatic' chorals, either. Key scenes are scored with adagio-writing that occasionally features mixed chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, publicist said: Who talks about scores, you talk about 'moments'. The way it's advertised above is *exactly* the kind of knee-jerk louder-is-better philosophy you and many others automatically confuse with great music. And often it's not, simply due to the fact that it's the easiest, musically boring way to convince people they just witnessed the second coming. Problem is, when every third-rate trailer uses it, how can it still achieve said effect? Boggles the mind. Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying you know my tastes in film music better than myself? It's not like "has EPIC™ choir = better score", otherwise, I would have loved the variation Lorne Balfe did with choir for the Mission: Impossible theme on Fallout (I didn't). Or some scores for blockbusters from people like Steve Jablonsky or Rupert Gregson-Williams. Heck, Giacchino uses choir constantly, and most of the time it's unremarkable, like Doctor Strange. It's not the use of choir per se, it's HOW it's used and WHEN it's used. If Williams scored every action scene on the Sequel Trilogy with Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes, it would be indeed tiresome and dull. The examples I posted above are from climactic battles on their movies (with the exception of the Two Towers one, which occurs at the beginning): Neo vs Smith in Revolutions, Frodo vs Gollum in ROTK, Rick vs Imhotep vs Scorpion King in TMR, Anakin vs Obi Wan in ROTS, Na'Vi vs human army in Avatar, Luke vs Vader and the Emperor in ROTJ. The use of choir on these scenes elevated them to operatic levels, giving them a tragic, epic quality, and highlighting to the viewer that this is the end, the last battle for the fate of the world/galaxy, everything is on stake... It's not just an action scene, it's THE final confrontation between heroes and villains. It was usual to use choir on climactic battles until a few years ago. These days (as I highlighted with Deathly Hallows 2 and Endgame) they're scored like every action scene on the movie, with bombast, but little to diferentiate them from other action music on the same score. As for the argument that these horrid trailer music are using fake choir it all the time, well, that's not really the fault of the composers, is it? "Oh, I won't write an outstanding piece for this movie because some third-rate trailer house will do an awful variation of it". Even still, I prefer when trailers use their imitation of film scores than those horrendous "slow, dark and disturbing" covers of pop hits, like this crap: Chen G. and Mattris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 34 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying you know my tastes in film music better than myself? I understand all the links you posted and these are a sample of exactly that mentality, even if some are better executed than others (never was a fan of Shore's clumsy monster choirs). In 2020, it's just a terrible idea for a composer to punish audiences with this very same approach yet again. And i won't even go into Williams eschewing these things if not pummeled into them by the filmmakers: he clearly understands it's a tool that needs to be finely dosed to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 On Williams' case, I don't blame him as much as, for instance, Silvestri on Endgame, because I understood that he wanted to give TROS a more emotional climax, with Rey's theme and a more optimistic variation of Kylo's theme battling the Emperor's theme, not just being bombast for the sake of it. Personally, I wasn't involved that much with that climax because I didn't like the movie. That said, despite the awful tracking, there was still some great moments, like Farewell. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I didn't notice such approach in RoS, there was a short a capella choir outbreak that was very precisely synched to a certain moment, nothing like the suggested wholesale plastering of DOTF (no relation to any of the characters onscreen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 Yet another key crew member (editor Maryann Brandon) doing some damage control about why a bunch of stuff that shouldn't have been removed from the film got removed from the film: Quote The big question, how was Palpatine resurrected, was ultimately only explained in the film with a throwback line and a visual of clones (a shot which also explains Snoke). Brandon confirms the original version had “little more information about it, what was keeping [Palpatine] alive” but they cut it because “we felt we didn’t want to clutter the film up with things you didn’t need to know.” She adds: “It was kind of a delicate balance and went back and forth a lot about how much we wanted to reveal. Some scenes changed quite a bit, the way that we wanted to present it to the audience. In the end, we ended up showing a lot less of it than we started with.” Yes, it's completely irrelevant why a formerly dead villain is suddenly alive, considering it's the main plot point of the entire film, and final big villain of the entire saga. She goes on to explain the final cut was delivered at the last second and they had 3 months less production time than on TFA (and boy does it show). This comment on that page sums up my feelings: This is one of several interviews I've seen with the filmmakers where they provide answers to questions left lingering from the movie, or filled in details about stuff that got cut out. If it's apparently so important to tell us about all this stuff you left out of the movie, maybe you SHOULDN'T HAVE LEFT IT OUT OF THE MOVIE. Chen G., Demodex, Mattris and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 While I think the use of choir in a score like ROTS is brilliant, a part of me desires orchestra only tracks on a hypothetical complete score release. I'm not sure if it was all recorded together, but Battle of the Heroes (orchestra) is a dream track. Kinda like Home Alone 2 where those silly Christmas song lyrics were abolished back to the netherworld from which they came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 LotR didn't have plenty of choir because of Duel Of The Fates LOL Shore likes his chorus, and the operatic vocals in LotR fueled the use of chorals in subsequent years. DrTenma and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 18 hours ago, Disco Stu said: It's just a matter of taste. I'm not very big on scores that take Wagnerian pomposity and dial it up to 11 for extended periods of time, personally. A little bit goes a long way for me. I love the LOTR scores, Shore does the operatic thing better than anyone, but in terms of which one I listen to on its own the most for pleasure, it's definitely Fellowship, the least grandiose one (but still plenty grandiose!). I would take the last cues of Return of the King, just beautifully serene music, like a long relaxing sigh after a hard day. The Two Towers is more laid back in the middle with all the Rohan material developing, but then that goes for most scores - you're going to have moments of clarity and calm and moments of pure chaos and action. If one series is allowed to go full on epic choral majesty, it's Lord of the Rings. Revenge of the Sith is quite tame in comparison with respect to the choir. 9 hours ago, crumbs said: Yes, it's completely irrelevant why a formerly dead villain is suddenly alive. I like the idea floating around that it's Palpatine's spirit possessing his corpse. Holko and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Arpy said: I would take the last cues of Return of the King, just beautifully serene music, like a long relaxing sigh after a hard day. The Two Towers is more laid back in the middle with all the Rohan material developing, but then that goes for most scores - you're going to have moments of clarity and calm and moments of pure chaos and action. If one series is allowed to go full on epic choral majesty, it's Lord of the Rings. Revenge of the Sith is quite tame in comparison with respect to the choir. Yes, the huge epic choir is done with more taste and judgment by Shore than anyone else, he knows how to structure a piece of music for dramatic impact. I was just saying that FOTR is the one I naturally gravitate to more because the musical scope is slightly more restrained. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 I don't agree with everything, but here Scott Mendelson from Forbes explains why TROS is an objectively bad and woefully misguided movie: Quote I actually saw the film again yesterday, sitting dead center in the second row of a Dolby Cinema auditorium. What stood out the second time was A) how patched together with scotch tape the movie felt and B) how much it tried to mimic previous successful “big” movies without doing the work. Adam Driver has, after the prologue, maybe three lines of dialogue without his helmet. There are countless scenes where characters outright tell the audience what is happening and/or what needs to happen, which means that either the footage itself didn’t successfully tell the story or someone was worried about modern film criticism whereby any action or choice that isn’t outright explained (like a bad Saturday morning cartoon or even a good preschool toon like Dora the Explorer) is written up as a “plot hole.” I don’t know what did or didn’t happen behind the scenes, but this is the first time, by far, where a Star Wars film’s behind-the-scenes turmoil is glaringly apparent onscreen. Warts and all, Force Awakens, Solo and Rogue One still look and feel like coherent movies that tell their stories via character interaction, periodic exposition and visuals. Rise of Skywalker looks and feels like a series of disconnected sequences that are loosely tied together with one-the-nose exposition (Maz Kanata’s main lines of dialogue are all essentially telling the audience what is going on). Say what you will about Justice League, but that (mostly coherent) film had plenty of scenes where our would-be Super Friends talk to each other, learn about each other, and become a surrogate family in between resurrecting Superman and saving the world. Rise of Skywalker tragically puts plot over character and emphasizes the abstract over the specific. When Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II had the ghosts of Voldemort's victims come back to push Harry through a grim moment, it resonated because Harry knew and mourned these people. When Dumbledore’s ghost came back to Harry in a kind of lucid dream and offered final wisdom, it mattered because Harry knew and mourned this man. When the “snapped” heroes return in the action climax of Avengers: Endgame, it means something because A) we know these characters and B) Captain America, Iron Man and/or Thor know these characters. Sure, not every Avenger knows every other Avenger (I’m pretty sure Steve Rogers has never met Stephen Strange), but there is a developed relationship between the surviving heroes and the resurrected champions. But when the ghosts of the Jedi speak to Rey to get her to “rise up,” it’s an abstract concept because she barely knows (or has even heard of) any of these folk. The wizard duel in Harry Potter 7.2 is a personal culmination of seven years of struggle between Harry and Riddle. For Rey, Palpatine is just an abstract final boss. When Han Solo appears in a memory/vision to Kylo Ren, it barely registers because A) we had no idea of what their relationship was before Ben became evil and B) it’s clearly there for elicit a reaction from the audience as opposed to the character. And when Lando shows up at just the right moment with legions of support ships, it’s an entirely different concept because, save for Lando and a few others, Poe and his Resistance pals don’t know these people. That’s why attempts to replicate Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part II and Avengers: Endgame fell so flat. So many of the plot turns, visuals and character reveals are intended to register with the audience, specifically original trilogy die-hards, as opposed to with the characters. The reveals that John Harrison is Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness (a much better J.J. Abrams sequel) and that Franz Oberhauser was Bofeld in Spectre meant nothing to James Kirk or James Bond but were meant to inspire audience excitement. It’s not unlike how Batman v Superman bet DC Films’ future that the mere idea of Batman and Superman teaming up with Wonder Woman (all in the abstract) to stop a giant monster would elicit cheers equal to when the Avengers, who knew each other had earned the respect of the audience, united to stop Loki’s invasion. Putting aside story decisions I disagreed with (like negating Rey’s whole “you don’t have to be important or have had parents who loved you to be special” arc or turning Poe into a jerk who kinda hates Rey), and the preponderance of things (like the story of Leia’s light saber) being explained or elaborated upon that required no such extra details (a problem shared with It Chapter Two), the thing that sticks out from The Rise of Skywalker, beyond the patchy construction of the movie itself, is how much of it is meant to elicit audience excitement merely from abstract tropes and theoretical Star Wars nostalgia as opposed to from what the beats mean to the characters. And, yes, this includes writing the film around Carrie Fisher’s deleted Force Awakens footage, which turns the first reel into Plan 9 from Outer Space. It’s the difference between the abstract (Batman and Superman are meeting up!) and the specific (Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Chris Hemsworth’s Thor are meeting up!), a lesson that DC Films eventually figured out. Come what may, Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn, Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman, Zackary Levi’s Shazam and Jason Momoa’s Aquaman have all earned fans for their specific cinematic interpretations of those characters. Rise of Skywalker’s nostalgia-baiting traded the specific arcs of Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo for generic tropes and fan service, including characters and beats that meant more to the audience than the characters, at the expense of whatever story threads had been developed in the previous two episodes. They sacrificed folks who liked Last Jedi and, yes, Force Awakens both because and despite them being Star Wars films for fans who just wanted Star Wars in the most abstract. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/03/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-justice-league-avengers-endgame-harry-potter-box-office-disappointment/#5dbd8b1e261c gkgyver, toothless, Romão and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I agree with the above. I feel even Hayden Christensen's much reviled Anakin and even Portman's Padme are better defined and more fleshed out characters than Rey, Finn and Poe. These last 3 are just racing from plot point to plot point with not a moment to breathe. 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: Adam Driver has, after the prologue, maybe three lines of dialogue without his helmet. Is this true? Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,293 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 20 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: While I think the use of choir in a score like ROTS is brilliant, a part of me desires orchestra only tracks on a hypothetical complete score release. I'm not sure if it was all recorded together, but Battle of the Heroes (orchestra) is a dream track. Kinda like Home Alone 2 where those silly Christmas song lyrics were abolished back to the netherworld from which they came. Santa is here again YES Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 It really is unfortunate that there were so many last-minute changes that happened that weren't for the best. John Boyega's comments about Rey are weird, though. I never got any sense of a romance between Finn and Rey. It seemed way more like brother and sister. He was probably upset with some other choice that Disney made and needed to blow some steam. Also, JJ said that Rey and Kylo are like brother and sister in TFA--and I have to disagree. They see inside each other's heads. That's much more invasive than what a sibling relationship would be. It's also weird that in the leaks that came out in September/October or whenever, Rey and Kylo didn't kiss. Sure, it wasn't necessary, but Disney really put it in at the last minute because they wanted to please a group of fans? That's why I think social media is really hurting so many films and TV shows. (Like what happened with Kelly Marie Tran, too--JJ or Disney or both thought they should pretty much leave her out of TROS? Come on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Is this true? I'm not sure... He is without his helmet for most of the second half of the movie (duel with Rey on Kef Bir, confrontation with the Emperor on Exegol), right? But still, I've been reading Scott's column for almost 5 years, and he is known for making some exagerated statements like that, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I agree with his column totally but I don't think the Kylo part is true. Scenes without the helmet include him revealing Rey's parentage in the hanger, his brief chat with Rey inside the Death Star, and his chat with his dad. Certainly more than 3 lines, though I can't think of any other instances. He doesn't have any dialogue after the Han Solo chat, that much I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Anyone else reckon this is the best one since The Empire Strikes Back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, crumbs said: He doesn't have any dialogue after the Han Solo chat Woah really? That's kinda weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said: Anyone else reckon this is the best one since The Empire Strikes Back? No. It's the best one since The Last Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, gkgyver said: No. It's the best one since The Last Jedi At least it's better than Solo, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: Woah really? That's kinda weird I don't mind it, personally. Ben's change of heart was conveyed by Driver's performance. Frankly I'm stunned JJ didn't give him dialogue to explain what he was doing, seeing as he treats the audience like idiots for the first two acts (and felt compelled to spell out every convoluted plot detail via incessant dialogue, rather than visual/musical storytelling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: At least it's better than Solo, then. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 The prequels are better than any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2020 JJ's way of explaining character motivations: "She knows what she must do." "I know what I have to do." "I must transfer my soul to you, Rey, my granddaughter and also here's the Last Order army waiting in orbit of this planet." "I know what I have to do." "You know what must be done. If not, I might explain it to you." Everyone's got something to do and they apparently know how to do it. Edmilson, Holko, Fabulin and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Can you imagine how JJ would write wholly musical/visual sequences like Paige's sacrifice in TLJ? That sequence is like two minutes long without a single word of dialogue; Johnson's visual storytelling is just superb, and paired with Williams' musical talent? Perfection. JJ would plaster it with idiotic dialogue. "I need to climb this ladder, because my pilot is dead! I'm trying to grab the detonator! I'm falling backwards because of an explosion! Ahhhhh! Look, I caught the detonator as it fell past my head!" Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Questions for those of you who pay more attention to these things than I do: Is there a name for the red zone in space everyone has to go through the get to Exegol? Is there a name for the building on Exegol that Kylo meets the Emperor in and sees the Snoke clones? Is the room where all the final confrontations happen just called the throne room? Who or what are the observers during all this? Dead Sith? Living Sith? Just regular people who worship Palpatine? When Rey draws a saber to kill The Emperor, but then sends it to Kylo instead and he uses it to kill all the Knights of Ren, was that Luke's saber or Leia's saber that she gave him? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 No one here knows who those vague shadowy figures in the Emperor's arena were. But surely they knew, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 @Jay Rey sends Ben the reforged Luke saber, whilst she uses Leia's. It's fitting that it should be that way since Kylo said that the Saber belonged to him in the previous film. I believe the hooded people on Exegol are Sith Loyalists or Cultists. Palpatine calls them his 'Faithful' if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Arpy said: I believe the hooded people on Exegol are Sith Loyalists or Cultists. Palpatine calls them his 'Faithful' if I'm not mistaken. Sounds like a novel waiting to happen. ins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Or another trilogy! Palpatine's faithful, after years if lying in wait try and extract revenge of Rey Skywalker and her children, Luke and Ben! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Whatever happened to all that talk about the title "Skywalker" becoming the new version of "Jedi"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Not until Rey begins the new Jedi Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Those guys on Palpatine's hideout were probably Sith cultists, people who don't possess their powers, but admire and study the Sith culture anyway. In other words, they're Sith fanboys, lol. Remember Max von Sydow's character, which they said it was a Jedi scholar or something, but not a Jedi per se? I guess it's something like this, but with Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 They're global warming cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now