Arpy 4,145 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 8 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said: A question that’s bugged me for years: what theories are there for why Yoda’s Theme is used in the chase through Bespin? Almost any other theme would make more narrative sense - it’s not like the chase is Yoda-related in any meaningful way - and many other themes would have worked well musically at that point. Maybe JW just felt the other new themes were getting a good airing and he wanted Yoda’s to get more air time? Seems odd reasoning to me though. Thoughts? Mark To me it seemed that it was to partly score Luke's rescue attempt, perhaps some sort of thematic link to the fact that Yoda warned Luke against rushing to save his friends instead of completing his training. Luke's persistence pulls through and instead of total despair, Williams uses Yoda's theme as a sort of heroic reprieve; although Yoda's warning was right, they still managed to evade the Empire's clutches (except Han of course). That's my flippity-floppity rationalisation instead of just saying 'it sounded cool'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,552 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 13 hours ago, ATXHusker said: My older son and I are going tonight... So...how'd it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 13 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said: A question that’s bugged me for years: what theories are there for why Yoda’s Theme is used in the chase through Bespin? Almost any other theme would make more narrative sense - it’s not like the chase is Yoda-related in any meaningful way - and many other themes would have worked well musically at that point. Maybe JW just felt the other new themes were getting a good airing and he wanted Yoda’s to get more air time? Seems odd reasoning to me though. Thoughts? Mark When I was younger, I always saw it as "Yoda's training prepared him for this moment" or that because of Yoda's training he can be the true hero he's being for the first time for his friends. Before that, you remember he'd get his ass kicked, Han and Leia were more capable and able of things than he was. Dude got one lucky shot on the Death Star and the next time we see him he immediately gets his ass kicked by a yeti. Then he gets whooped at the Battle of Hoth. So now he arrives on Bespin and is the one that's going to save them. Even Han sees Luke otherwise when he finally unfreezes. "Luke? Luke's crazy! He can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: So...how'd it go? It was great of course! Other than the fact that it was in a smaller theater and there were only 3 other people in there besides ourselves (thanks Covid), we had a great time. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Happy Birthday to my favourite Star Wars movie! And thanks to remember me that I'm 6 years older! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 ‘Empire Strikes Back’ Tops ‘Jurassic Park’ To Become 2020’s Biggest-Grossing Rerelease Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 On 9/25/2020 at 4:20 AM, SilverTrumpet said: When I was younger, I always saw it as "Yoda's training prepared him for this moment" or that because of Yoda's training he can be the true hero he's being for the first time for his friends. Before that, you remember he'd get his ass kicked, Han and Leia were more capable and able of things than he was. Dude got one lucky shot on the Death Star and the next time we see him he immediately gets his ass kicked by a yeti. Then he gets whooped at the Battle of Hoth. So now he arrives on Bespin and is the one that's going to save them. Even Han sees Luke otherwise when he finally unfreezes. "Luke? Luke's crazy! He can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody." I believe, in the original liner notes for Empire Strikes Back, Williams wrote that it was "Luke applying Yoda's training". Of course, we Williams fans should know in the end not to apply very strict "movie theme" logic to his work. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 It underscored Leia, Lando, and Chewie running around the Bespin halls, so that doesn’t make a ton of sense. I’m happy to have that sublime musical moment without worrying about cataloging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Yeah, Yoda wasn't exactly an athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,530 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 On 9/25/2020 at 1:20 PM, SilverTrumpet said: When I was younger, I always saw it as "Yoda's training prepared him for this moment" or that because of Yoda's training he can be the true hero he's being for the first time for his friends. Before that, you remember he'd get his ass kicked, Han and Leia were more capable and able of things than he was. Dude got one lucky shot on the Death Star and the next time we see him he immediately gets his ass kicked by a yeti. Then he gets whooped at the Battle of Hoth. So now he arrives on Bespin and is the one that's going to save them. Even Han sees Luke otherwise when he finally unfreezes. "Luke? Luke's crazy! He can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody." Luke does feckall to "save" the gang, Lando does. Luke just fires a couple shots then Vader toys with him and wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,471 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 51 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Yeah, Yoda wasn't exactly an athlete. He was on Episodes 2 and 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 That's not Yoda, but a CGI blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Nick Parker said: I believe, in the original liner notes for Empire Strikes Back, Williams wrote that it was "Luke applying Yoda's training". Of course, we Williams fans should know in the end not to apply very strict "movie theme" logic to his work. Yep, though credit should be given to Alan Arnold for the exact quote, not Williams -- who knows how much of a hand JW had in the liner notes. "Luke gains courage as we hear Yoda's theme, which urges Luke on as he remembers Yoda's teachings and tries to apply them at this moment of extreme trial." Source: http://www.jw-collection.de/scores/tesblp.htm Ludwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, Falstaft said: Yep, though credit should be given to Alan Arnold for the exact quote, not Williams -- who knows how much of a hand JW had in the liner notes. "Luke gains courage as we hear Yoda's theme, which urges Luke on as he remembers Yoda's teachings and tries to apply them at this moment of extreme trial." Source: http://www.jw-collection.de/scores/tesblp.htm Good point...I saw the word "bellicose" and knowing Williams likes that word, I just assumed it was him Although honestly I always wondered if the liner notes were accidentally referring to the music underscoring the earlier part of the duel, the music that ultimately was unused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Holko said: Luke does feckall to "save" the gang, Lando does. Luke just fires a couple shots then Vader toys with him and wins. Luke kept Vader distracted at least. And brought R2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 My guess is they had this or something like it in as a temp track: So Williams adapted one of his new themes to match the mood: Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Watched it in the theater yesterday with my son and his cousin. My son is 7, about to turn 8, so he has seen Star Wars many times but this is his first time seeing Empire. Honestly it was still a bit much for him. But I’m glad he experienced it in all its glory. [Insert usual mild complaints about ESB SE.] I can’t say I was super happy with the sound mix; it was only coming from the front for some reason. Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marc 769 Posted December 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2020 Bayesian, BrotherSound, KittBash and 11 others 8 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Marc said: Phenomenal, as always @Marc. Got any more ESB planned? Would love to hear you take on those licks at the end of the Mynock cave scene! Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 12/18/2020 at 11:48 AM, Marc said: Nicely done, @Marc! That’s got to be some kind of record for the number of horn rips in a single cue, right? Also, attention xylophone haters: there’s xylophone all over this cue, but I haven’t heard anyone complain about its use here so far! Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc 769 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 12/19/2020 at 1:20 AM, Falstaft said: Phenomenal, as always @Marc. Got any more ESB planned? Would love to hear you take on those licks at the end of the Mynock cave scene! Thank you very much ! No other ESB cue planned at the moment but who knows...there might very well be another one someday ( End of Mynock cave would be pretty cool indeed ! ) 3 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Nicely done, @Marc! That’s got to be some kind of record for the number of horn rips in a single cue, right? Haha, I've played other cues full of rips (stuff from Powell's HTTYD comes to mind) but yeah I've rarely seen that many in a cue BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 They keep releasing these 40th anniversary BTS videos, the last one contained segments of a few deleted scenes all cleaned up and color corrected. I'm curious if they'll release some sort of "collector's edition" set for ESB with some new deleted scenes and BTS videos, interviews, etc. aescalle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 For a 40th anniversary of one of the franchise's most celebrated films, Disney have done fuck all. No special celebration, no special sets of the film and nothing on the score at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 12 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: They keep releasing these 40th anniversary BTS videos, the last one contained segments of a few deleted scenes all cleaned up and color corrected. I'm curious if they'll release some sort of "collector's edition" set for ESB with some new deleted scenes and BTS videos, interviews, etc I hope so. I thought the same, they look really clean. It was fun seeing han solo give a shoulder clap to leia after she gives him one in a released extended scene. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 12 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: They keep releasing these 40th anniversary BTS videos, the last one contained segments of a few deleted scenes all cleaned up and color corrected. I'm curious if they'll release some sort of "collector's edition" set for ESB with some new deleted scenes and BTS videos, interviews, etc. Wow, weren't most of the ESB deleted scenes in B&W? I vaguely recall the deleted extension to Han & Leia's first kiss was in horrible quality on the Bluray. It looks pristine here! I guess new elements turned up over the last few years. Maybe we'll see more stuff on Disney+. The archival footage looks sensational in HD! Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alan 689 Posted December 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2020 Some really interesting and very nicely cleaned up raw footage appearing in these videos and it does indeed point towards something more happening than the UHD releases revealed. Those transfers came from 2012 4K scans of the conformed Special Edition cuts, but the material we're seeing in these videos can only have come from a deep dive in to the original camera negatives. Really cool to see high quality scans of raw VFX VistaVision plates. Looks like there's a lot of stuff in really good shape! With the money and motivation they could do an incredible remaster with this stuff and a release worthy of the film. Holko, Manakin Skywalker and TSMefford 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 It would be great if the released the complete archives with all deletes scenes for all 9 films...with finished SFX.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I just finished rewatching the grindhouse 35mm print of ESB. Even in a somewhat beat-up copy, it still quite an experience to watch it this way. It gives a nice example of how it was to watch in a movie theater back in the day. And with the optical sound and everything. Like I said before, it gives you a perfect LCR+Mono Surround channel separation if you decode the sound with Dolby Pro-Logic. That's impressive, coming from an optical sound print. The are some advances in Project 4K80 since I last checked it. Looks like we might see some good news soon. https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k80/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I now totally embrace the actual version streaming on Disney+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 " There is no ' V'- there is only ESB!"😠 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Bespin said: I now totally embrace the actual version streaming on Disney+. Why would you say something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 The original (very very original) version of ESB is unwatchable. One of my favourite correction in the SE edition: I can't live without it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 What was the difference there again? Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,530 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 They made it blue because bad colour timing, and they recomposited it... badly, the perspective shifts. upper: Grindhouse, lower: blu or 4k. open these two images in two browser tabs and click back and forth to see how the lower one warps. The brightness change in the upper images is likely jut because the grindhouse is a bad quality/unrestored print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 The window behind Vader was even more paler on the original movie. More than your images shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Holko said: upper: Grindhouse, lower: blu or 4k. open these two images in two browser tabs and click back and forth to see how the lower one warps. The brightness change in the upper images is likely jut because the grindhouse is a bad quality/unrestored print. It's amazing just how badly that Bluray was colour graded. The shift towards blue stripped away the vibrant red lights around the bridge. Unfortunately the 4K version didn't really help. It's clearly a technically superior scan of the negatives but it's DNR'd to hell and the colour is totally washed out. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 314 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 hours ago, Holko said: The brightness change in the upper images is likely jut because the grindhouse is a bad quality/unrestored print. Or it could be these other reasons: The settings of the device used to scan the 35mm release prints. The optical effects compositing of the film for it's time. The merging of filmed elements into one film was done photo chemically. Each filmed element had to be copied-or duplicated (duped) onto new film. When you are duping a film, the copy will lose quality from the original. All filmed elements in that shot were copies. The quality of these release prints is several generations away from the original camera negative. LucasFilm had all the filmed elements stored and had them transferred and re-composited digitally for their current home video releases, hence the quality of the 4K/Blu Ray versions. Some of us old-timers like the ‘grindhouse’ quality of our favorite films because seeing all those nuisances from the print (flashes of dirt-marks, etc.) ignites those memories of happy times at the cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 i just randomly came by this mattessino interview released yesterday. https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/history-legacy-showmanship Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: i just randomly came by this mattessino interview released yesterday. https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/history-legacy-showmanship Interesting, I think it explains the use of a bit of a previously used track (from a Dagobah cue) to replace the original beginning of the Finale wrote by JW (the version on the albums). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bounty95 558 Posted January 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2021 Saved you a click: He doesn't talk about future expansions. Bespin, crumbs and Chewy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2022 JoAnn Kane Music Service just shared some images of the original full scores for The Empire Strikes Back: Ludwig, Jurassic Shark, Bespin and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Re-recording confirmed! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2022 @Jay @Falstaft @Ludwig This reminds me, we’d assumed the lack of a 9M5 between 9M4 Trouble In Prison and 9M6/10M1 Carbon Freeze was just a fluke, but curiously, there’s also a corresponding gap in those big red numbers written on each full score, too: Fox Fanfare 1M1 Main Title 1M2 The Imperial Probe 1M3-2M1 Luke’s Escape 2M2 Ben’s Instruction 2M3 Luke’s Rescue 2M4 The Probe Scanner 3M1 Drawing the Battle Lines 3M2 Leia’s Instructions 3M3 The Snow Battle 3M4-4M1 Luke’s First Crash 4M2 The Rebels Escape Again 4M3 The Asteroid Field 5M1 Crash Landing 5M2 Yoda Appears 5M3 Yoda’s Entrance 5M4-6M1 Solo and the Princess 6M2 Yoda’s Teaching 6M3 This is Not a Cave 6M4 Training a Jedi 6M5-7M1 The Magic Tree 7M2 Attack Positions 7M3 Yoda Raises the Ship 7M4-8M1 Vader’s Command 8M2 City in the Clouds 8M3 Lando’s Palace 9M1 Luke to the Rescue 9M2 Vader Shows Up 9M3 Putting 3PO Together 9M4 Trouble In Prison Unknown - 9M5? 9M6-10M1 Carbon Freeze 10M2 Luke Pursues the Captives 10M3 Chewie Chokes Lando 11M1 Through the Window 11M2-12M1 Losing a Hand 12M2 To Hyperspace 12M3 Finale 12M4 End Credits Yoda’s Theme The Imperial March (Darth Vader’s Theme) Still likely nothing, but I’d sure like a peek at JW’s original manuscripts to be sure… Jay, CGCJ, Manakin Skywalker and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Just in case it consoles me as I gaze ruefully out of the window: what might the reasons be that we get teaser pictures of the originals but never any 'proper' scans, even of a limited number of cues? There would be so much of value in being able to see the handwritten originals of one of the best Romantic film scores ever, what comments were made, what was changed, how JW and HS worked together etc. I suppose it's simple copyright? People might transcribe them and sell for profit? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Are you asking why we can't legally purchase John Williams scores from like Omni or the other companies doing that kind of thing now? If so the answer is easy: John Williams isn't interested in making that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,116 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Didnt Williams donate all his scores to a Univerity a while back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 No, he said they will be donated to Juilliard after he passes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 How's he gonna donate it when he's dead? Does he carry with him a score donor card at all times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: How's he gonna donate it when he's dead? Does he carry with him a score donor card at all times? For that kind of issue a long time ago (at about the invention of lettering) something called "last will" or "testament" was invented. QuartalHarmony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,086 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 I prefer my score donor card concept. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now