HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion

[Will 2,235]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

I would just like to add that Williams's action music from 1989 to 1993 (i.e. between his "golden age" of 1977 to 1984 and his post-Lost World modern age) is very underrated. On this period we got "Escape from Venice", "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra", "On the Tank", "Belly of the Steel Beast", "The Land Race", "T-Rex Rescue and Finale" and, of course, "The Ultimate War". They're so fun and yet so intense!

 

Speaking of The Ultimate War, I can hear some echoes from it on The Phantom Menace, particularly "Anakin Takes Off in Spaceship".

 

Yes -- and really great to hear the new inserts (I think?) in "The Ultimate War"!

[Doo_liss 6,423]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 I can hear some echoes from it on The Phantom Menace, particularly "Anakin Takes Off in Spaceship".

I can hear some Coruscant-esque material in Peter's Challenge 4:54)

 

And of course, The stories are true feels like a more lighthearted TPM Emperor theme appearance

[Edmilson 8,919]

I guess that in a way Hook is like an ancestor to both The Phantom Menace and The Philosopher's Stone (more the latter than the former, and HP1's other parent would be Home Alone).

[Doo_liss 6,423]

57 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I guess that in a way Hook is like an ancestor to both The Phantom Menace and The Philosopher's Stone (more the latter than the former, and HP1's other parent would be Home Alone).

Yup, Hook's material and the Burglars are basically cousins, also Hook has some shades of Accidental Tourist (1:58 of Healing Process and Peter Remembers) and still some Crusade-ness (the cimbalom in Hook's Entrance and Ultimate War) and even Temple of Doom/Olympic Fanfare and Theme (Ultimate War)

 

Is From Mermaids to Lost Boys, the first time Williams used melodic choir for something beautiful in a major way?

 

Empire and Superman have short sections more in the background, Raiders, Temple, and Jedi have it more for dark mystery/evil.

 

EDIT: forgot about Empire of the Sun Though, at least it's not technically fantasy.

[artguy360 1,899]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

I guess that in a way Hook is like an ancestor to both The Phantom Menace and The Philosopher's Stone (more the latter than the former, and HP1's other parent would be Home Alone).

Absolutely. I can hear the Home Alone and Hook in HP1 all throughout the score. It's a specific JW mode.

[Tydirium 1,270]

Just watched the movie again tonight: what a cool experience after having been exposed to this new presentation!!

 

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I guess that in a way Hook is like an ancestor to both The Phantom Menace and The Philosopher's Stone (more the latter than the former, and HP1's other parent would be Home Alone).

 

Some of the action material towards the end of Hook reminds me of Naboo palace action material in TPM.

 

EDIT: It’s too bad “The Stories Are True” is missing the gorgeous flute/oboe version of the “Mothers” theme at 0:13, that can be heard at 0:11 in the “Granny Wendy” OST track! It’s missing in the movie too, so I get it, but considering the fact that the “Granny Wendy” OST take does have that solo and is also at a slightly faster tempo, it would have been nice to have that album version included.

 

It feels weird without the tune, since the chords there are clearly outlining that theme. I thought “The Stories Are True (Alternate)” would have it, but that version of the cue goes in a totally different direction at that spot. So unless I’m missing something, it seems the OST or 2012 expansion is still necessary if you want that bit, albeit in inferior sound.  Thankfully it’s just 7 notes!

 

EDIT 2: I’m dumb. As per @John Takis, it’s in “Forgotten How to Fly”!

[John Takis 242]

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

So unless I’m missing something, it seems the OST or 2012 expansion is still necessary if you want that bit, albeit in inferior sound.  Thankfully it’s just 7 notes!

 

Nothing is missing on the new release. The track "Granny Wendy" on the OST is a combination of two different cues, "Forgotten How To Fly" and "Wendy's Entrance." You'll find what you're looking for on CD 1, Track 10!

[Tydirium 1,270]

4 minutes ago, John Takis said:

 

Nothing is missing on the new release. The track "Granny Wendy" on the OST is a combination of two different cues, "Forgotten How To Fly" and "Wendy's Entrance." You'll find what you're looking for on CD 1, Track 10!

 

I stand SO happily corrected. You just made my night; thank you!!! It’s one of my favorite little spots, so I’m very happy it’s here after all! My mistake was thinking that “Granny Wendy” was a combo of “The Stories Are True” and “Wendy’s Entrance.”

[Henry Sítrónu 526]

I couldn't find anything in the booklet about who sang Stick With Me and the Never Song...?!

[GerateWohl 5,040]

8 minutes ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

I couldn't find anything in the booklet about who sang Stick With Me and the Never Song...?!

Somewhere in this thread Jay quoted Mike Matessino saying, that information is lost. Nobody knows, who sang these songs. 

[Jay 39,428]

2 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

I couldn't find anything in the booklet about who sang Stick With Me and the Never Song...?!

 

On 05/12/2023 at 3:27 PM, Jay said:

It is unknown who sang those.  None of the paperwork from 1991 had this information.  Mike made every possible attempt to find out, but no leads resulted in any answers. 

 

We're actually hoping this release might cause those two singers to come out of the woodwork and identify themselves!

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Somewhere in this thread Jay quoted Mike Matessino saying, that information is lost. Nobody knows, who sang these songs. 

Leslie bricusse?

12 hours ago, Will said:

 

Yes -- and really great to hear the new inserts (I think?) in "The Ultimate War"!

Regarding those… i didnt hear any new- different music from what im accustomed to. Were they in the old boots? I thought they were unreleased, but maybe the dissapointemt was they were not in the First LLL edition

[Doo_liss 6,423]

3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Leslie bricusse?

Regarding those… i didnt hear any new- different music from what im accustomed to. Were they in the old boots? I thought they were unreleased, but maybe the dissapointemt was they were not in the First LLL edition

Only in the film previously.

[Jay 39,428]

The two inserts in "The Ultimate War (Film Version)" were not on the previous LLL edition and could not have been heard anywhere unless ripped from the film itself until now.

[BrotherSound 2,295]

I noticed a bit of the Pirate Sequence has been hiding in plain sight in the Hook novelization this whole time:

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

The two inserts in "The Ultimate War (Film Version)" were not on the previous LLL edition and could not have been heard anywhere unless ripped from the film itself until now.

Can you point me the timestamps of the inserts, please?

[Jay 39,428]

It's the Peter Pan theme when he arrives (followed by the quiet passage for Hook's response), and the Lost Boys theme when they arrive.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,296]

54 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Can you point me the timestamps of the inserts, please?

 

1:22 to 1:35 and 3:49 to 3:57

[Edmilson 8,919]

Why so many people hate Banning Back Home? It's so good! I listen to it and I'm immediately transported to the late 1980s/ early 1990s - and I wasn't even alive back then! A true time capsule of a very specific period.

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

Yup it could be the main titles of a series from that period

[King Mark 3,713]

23 hours ago, Jay said:

The two inserts in "The Ultimate War (Film Version)" were not on the previous LLL edition and could not have been heard anywhere unless ripped from the film itself until now.

yeah I did hear spots where I didn't recognise the music.

 

So having listened to the whole thing I must say it sounds fantastic and it's overall amazing.

 

I might relegate a few song tracks to Disk 3 :

 

We don't wanna grow up (it sucks no matter the  version)

When your Alone

Pick Em Up. (the first part is annoying)

 

Add in Main Program:

Replace Banning Back Home with the alternate one

Add instrumental When Your Alone at the spot of the vocal version.

The Never Band to replace Pick Em Up  (I was so relived when that popped up with a clean opening on disk 3).

Try to add Farewell Neverland Short Version and Exit music alt. (if the editing required it clean)

I also kind of like The Pirate Sequence Instrumental so maybe I can put that in somewhere like the end of disk 1

 

Songs I liked:

Childhood

When Your Alone short version not sung by little girl (it would have been awesome to have the whole song with that singer)

Mothers

Believe

 

Songs I don't care about or dislike:

We don't wanna Grow up (both versions)

The Never Song (that's terrible)

Low Below

Stick with Me

[Ollie 1,136]

I went straight to The Ultimate War, thru to the exit music. That is my favorite musical sequence in the film and it was beautiful to hear properly done.

 

Hook has a love hate relationship with me. It was released during a painful time in my life but it was the first film I took my daughter to see. 
 

Congratulations to @Jay, Mike Matessino, the crew at LLL and everyone else involved in getting this out there.

[Tydirium 1,270]

Maybe someone more knowledgable about this score could help answer this question: why is the film version of “The Lost Boy Chase” presented as an alternate on Disc 3, rather than in the main score program? I’m talking mainly about the drums that score the basketball sequence after the chase.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

11 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Maybe someone more knowledgable about this score could help answer this question: why is the film version of “The Lost Boy Chase” presented as an alternate on Disc 3, rather than in the main score program? I’m talking mainly about the drums that score the basketball sequence after the chase.

Doesn't it replace orchestral material with a percussion overlay?

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Why so many people hate Banning Back Home? It's so good! I listen to it and I'm immediately transported to the late 1980s/ early 1990s - and I wasn't even alive back then! A true time capsule of a very specific period.

It reminds me of a Wii channel lol

[Goldfingers 132]

On 09/12/2023 at 8:37 PM, BrotherSound said:

I noticed a bit of the Pirate Sequence has been hiding in plain sight in the Hook novelization this whole time:

It was never kept hidden. It's precisely the reading of the novel that ignited my passion for deleted scenes and this particular scene. Everything has been there from the start. It involves singing, dancing, and the scene is depicted with meticulous attention to detail with dialogues that didn't make sense as pure dialogues, it was clearly from a song. Some details leads me to suspect that Terry Brook must have had access to a working version of the film rather than just a script.

Here is the script of the scene, so you can understand its length and the events that unfold. 
The version on the CD is shorter than the potential film version that could have existed.
 

Quote

 

EXT PIRATE TOWN MORNING CONTINUOUS
Peter continues and sees a group of PIRATE MUSICIANS and a MAN SINGING a shanty "LOW BELOW".

Then Peter turns and sees:
CLOSE ON A shower of sparks as a tool is held against a grinder. The SOUND of grinding metal.
PULL BACK TO REVEAL a BLACKSMITH at work and SMEE standing by with a white satin pillow cradled in his hands.
ZOOM IN ON the tool being grinded. It's a HOOK! The Blacksmith lifts it off the grinder. He and Smee examine its red-hot glowing point critically.

 

Smee
"Sharp as a shark's tooth. I think me Captain will be pleased with this."

When they place the hook on the satin pillow, it smolders like a hot iron.

 

Peter looks at Tink. Tink nods.
 

Tink
"Follow that hook!"

 

OVER THE ACTION:

All
Down in the deep below, full fifty fathoms, 
Dead men are sure to get to sleep tonight! 
You'll meet your mates below, Hale an' hearty dead men! 
Bed, board an' keep are very cheap! Dead right! 
Low below, we're food for all the fishes!
Low below, they're havin' us for lunch! 
Low below, the fishes can be vicious! 
Down at fifty fathoms where the wind don't blow! 
Where the sharks'll chew your bones! 
Turn your teeth to coral stones!
Near the grave of Davy Jones, low below!
 

Low below, where dead men go. 
Low below, the time goes slow. 
Low below, your bones'll show. 
There's the grave of Davy Jones, low below!
 

Smee steps onto the wharf. UPTEMPO MUSIC BEGINS. Smee lofts the hook as though it were his own. PIRATES constructing a gallows HAMMER as they mock Smee with their greetings:

 

Pirate #1
"Any news of war, Captain Smee?"

 

Smee smiles broadly, pleased to be Captain for a moment.
 

EXT. PIER BY THE PROSTITUTES
 

ONE HOOKER stands in the window, They see Smee carrying his Hook. 
 

ORIENTAL MUSIC 
 

THREE OTHERS stand outside. Peter follows at a distance.

Hooker #3 Kim
"Put your faces on girls, here comme Captain... Smee!"

The hookers perform an EXOTIC DANCE for Smee, who can only grin hugely as he hurries past. Peter, with Tink in hat, hurries after, and gets caught in the middle of the hooker's dance. An Arabic whirlwind around them.

 

Hooker #1 Mary 
"Look--look! s'gotta be Hook's hook!"

 

Hooker #2 Beverly
"Well, you should know!"
 

Hooker #3 Kim
"Symbol of fortune and fame!"
 

Hooker #4 Randi
"Keep the fame, I'll take the fortune!"
 

Hooker #2 Beverly
"James Hook, son of a sea cook."
 

Hooker #1 Mary
"That's not all he's a son of..."

 

Hooker #4 - Randi 
"Jimmy is our claim to fame."

 

Hooker #3 Kim
"Him and few hundred more I could mention..."

 

All hookers
"Swordsman, poet, debaucher! Hobbies:"

 

Smee
"Sailing and torture! Hookers, beautiful lookers!"

 

All hookers
"That's what he calls us."

 

All hookers
"Jimmy created our name! James Hook, son of a sea cook! Jimmy is our claim to fame. (wobbling arab noise)"

 

EXT./INT. PIRATE MAKEOVER SALON - CONTINUOUS - RAP MUSIC 

 

The SNIP of scissors, the THWOP of a razor on a strap. Smee passes through, gets a quick cut: "the Bad Boy Chop." Smee tosses THE BARBER a doubloon. The man reaches for it... and Smee jerks it back on a string.

 

LOW BELOW" RAP DIALOGUE:

 

All
"Yo ho ho!"

 

Pirates #1
"Sir!"

 

Barber
"Aye?"

 

Pirate #1 
"Listen, I want to look as fierce as Hook!"

 

All
"No dissin'!"

 

Pirate #2
"Homey--"

 

Barber
"Hmmm?"

 

Pirate #2
"Ya got an eyepatch--show me!"

 

All
"Fresh!"

 

Pirates #2
"What a catch I am!"

 

Barber
"A hole? A mole?"

 

Pirates #2
"Heads are gonna roll."

 

All
"Gonna eat 'em up whole!"

 

Pirates #1
"Now you'll chill them to the bottom of their souls!"

 

All
"Yo ho ho!"

 

Barber
"Yo Smee, s'up? How 'bout a Hook tattoo?"

 

All
"Word up!"

 

Pirates #3
Knock me in me mouth with a hammer--oooh, so rough I am! 

 

Barber
A snip? A flip?

 

Smee
"A bad boy clip with a captain hook tip."

Barber
"Brother, better not trip or I'll bust yer lip!"

 

All
"Yo ho ho!"

 

Pirates #3
"This Peter Pan high boy, he ain't no flyboy--"

 

Pirates #1
"He'll take 'im, and break 'im."

 

Pirates #2
"And shake 'im!"

 

Barber
"And bake him!"

 

Smee
"And make him give his propers to Hook!"

 

EXT./INT. PIRATE DENTIST CONTINUOUS

 

The DENTIST holds a rope. The other end goes to the PIRATE PATIENT'S mouth. The Dentist pulls. Tooth won't budge. Smee comes by and helps the Dentist pull, carefully holding his hook-on-a-pillow in the other hand. Still not enough."

Just then, Peter comes rushing up, stops short, and is hauled in to pull. Dentist, Smee, Peter, and Tink all pull. The tooth goes FLYING.

 

EXT./INT. TAVERN - CONTINUOUS

Smee continues on through the tavern. A PLAYER PIANO PLAYS. The drinkers are old vets sharing their war injuries: glass eyes, false teeth, and of course, peg legs.

 

All
"It's fun to maim, kill and plunder, drink till you're dead."

 

Pegleg #1
"It's lovely playin' football with a human head."

 

Pegleg #2
"Or dunkin' kids in a hot pot--"

 

All
"--"praps" two or three! We boil 'em one by one!"

 

Pegleg #3
"They're tasty when they're done!"

 

Pegleg #4
"Delicious eatin' children's ears for tea!"

 

All
"Two-three-four! It's hell to lose a limb."

 

Pegleg #1
"Like him--"

 

Pegleg #2
"An' him--"

 

Pegleg #3
"An' him!"

 

All
"But quite a nifty way of losin' weight!"

 

Pegleg #4
"Too true mate!"

 

Smee drains a huge draught.

 

Smee
"And don't forget you knee was once a tree! Drinks're on Smee."

 

 

Smee runs out of the tavern and spins by Peter and enters:

 

INT. DARK TUNNEL CONTINUOUS "LOW BELOW" CHORUS

 

A dark tunnel, lit by torches.

 

WITH THE ACTION "LOW BELOW" chorus becomes HOOK! chant, building in volume and number:

 

All
Low below, where dead men go. 
Low below, the time goes slow. 
Low below, your bones'll show. 
There's the grave of Davy Jones, low below!

 

As Smee, followed by Peter, turns a corner, JUKES and NOODLER are stripping the shirts off of FOUR KIDNAPPED LOST BOYS and readying thier whips. Peter stops and watches in horror, Tink in hat.

 

Peter
"They're just children."

Tink
"Hook's a scummy slaver. He makes them count his precious treasure forever."

 

Noodler finds an old photograph on one of the kidnapped boys. The boy begs pleadingly:

 

Lost boy
"No, that's my mother!"

 

Noodler eats the picture, licking his fingers cruelly. Jukes shoves the boy into a barrel.

 

Tink and Peter are pushed along and MORE and MORE PIRATES push through the tunnel. THEY CHANT:

 

Pirates
"Show us the Hook! Hook! Hook! Hook! Show us the Hook! Hook! Hook! Hook!...."

 

Now a tidal wave of PIRATES pours through the tunnel and Peter is swept up by the crowd, like a tourist in Times Square on New Year's Eve. All pour out into the bright light.

 

At the end of the pier sits the JOLLY ROGER at anchor: "a rakish-looking" craft foul to the hull." It has a massive dark stern like a huge skull face with two giant windows like eyes.

 

Peter's pushed along right onto th ship as ALL THE SOUNDS OF THE TOWN CRESCENDO and the symphony becomes one raucous CHANT.

 

Pirates
"HOOK! HOOK! HOOK!"

 

 

 

[Jay 39,428]

2 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Maybe someone more knowledgable about this score could help answer this question: why is the film version of “The Lost Boy Chase” presented as an alternate on Disc 3, rather than in the main score program?

 

John Williams wanted it that way.

[Dr. Know 355]

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Why so many people hate Banning Back Home? It's so good! I listen to it and I'm immediately transported to the late 1980s/ early 1990s - and I wasn't even alive back then! A true time capsule of a very specific period.

I was alive then and don’t want to be transported back.

[Tom 5,137]

Still sore over the fall of the wall?  

[Datameister 2,279]

I love Banning Back Home! JW wears Grusin well. Can't wait to hear the full-length version.

[oierem 180]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

 

John Williams wanted it that way.

It's fascinating that Williams actually remembers and/or cares about such small details.

 

That being said, I will probably switch those cues, as I prefer to have the actual film verion on the main program. 

[King Mark 3,713]

Alright it's easy to edit Farewell Neverland so you get the twinkly ending in the long version

 

Now I have

Hook Main Playlist :Complete score +songs I like at the end

Hook Extras (Stuff I don't want to listen to again like the album version of certain cues,We dont wanna grow up,  Never-song...etc)

[Edmilson 8,919]

9 hours ago, Datameister said:

I love Banning Back Home! JW wears Grusin well. Can't wait to hear the full-length version.

The first thing that comes to my mind are women wearing those bizarre typically early 90s haircuts:

 

 

 

And people on the streets talking on phones such as this:

 

 

And as I said I wasn't even alive back then! (I was born in 1993)

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

That haircut is not bad there was other worse ones

[QuartalHarmony 675]

Those three pictures scream late 80s to me much more than early 90s. And I was alive for both decades!

[Richard P 4,189]

3 hours ago, King Mark said:

Hook Extras (Stuff I don't want to listen to again like the album version of certain cues,We dont wanna grow up,  Never-song...etc)

 

Why do you keep stuff in a playlist that you don't want to listen to again?

 

I had a skim of everything and there are probably two tracks from disc 3 that I'd keep, along with about a CD's worth from the main program.

[Dr. Know 355]

Love the plucked strings in the instrumental version of "When You're Alone" -- an archetypical John Williams orchestration.  Can't believe this was never released before.

[King Mark 3,713]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Why do you keep stuff in a playlist that you don't want to listen to again?

 

I had a skim of everything and there are probably two tracks from disc 3 that I'd keep, along with about a CD's worth from the main program.

 Well it's just there in case I need to reference it but I'll probably only listen to my main playlist

1 hour ago, Dr. Know said:

Love the plucked strings in the instrumental version of "When You're Alone" -- an archetypical John Williams orchestration.  Can't believe this was never released before.

 it's also different from the re-recordings we have (Prague,orlando pops...)

[BrotherSound 2,295]

18 hours ago, Goldfingers said:

Here is the script of the scene, so you can understand its length and the events that unfold.

Whoa, thank you! This provides a lot of helpful context to visualize how this scene would have played out in the film. Are Childhood and Moira’s Lullaby also in the script? I assume the entirety of When You’re Alone was originally.

[King Mark 3,713]

I wonder if anyone here will replace the Never Feast film version with the album version in the main score presentation 

[Richard P 4,189]

I don't think the film version works that well, musically. The build-up to the theme in the album version is more satisfying.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

8 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I don't think the film version works that well, musically. The build-up to the theme in the album version is more satisfying.

The film version has more buildup....

 

Do we know what the Fanfare at the end of Tink Grows Up was supposed to score?

[Goldfingers 132]

1 hour ago, BrotherSound said:

Whoa, thank you! This provides a lot of helpful context to visualize how this scene would have played out in the film. Are Childhood and Moira’s Lullaby also in the script? I assume the entirety of When You’re Alone was originally.

No, "Childhood" and "When You're Alone" do not appear in the script (at least not in the ones I have), "When you're alone" is simply mentioned as "Lullaby" without more details. (No lyrics).

[Richard P 4,189]

38 minutes ago, Presto said:

The film version has more buildup....

 

More doesn't equal better.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

More doesn't equal better.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification

[Brando 2,161]

1 hour ago, Presto said:

Do we know what the Fanfare at the end of Tink Grows Up was supposed to score?

I’ve wondered about this too for a while, @Goldfingers would you know?

[BrotherSound 2,295]

2 hours ago, Presto said:

Do we know what the Fanfare at the end of Tink Grows Up was supposed to score?

The sketch says “Tink gone” and “Peter exits”, so probably Peter flying off to battle:

 

[Goldfingers 132]

2 hours ago, Brando said:

I’ve wondered about this too for a while, @Goldfingers would you know?

 

He flies to the Lost Boys in preparation for war. I don't know what was exactly filmed. Probably a very short special effects shot that serve to transition to the Lost Boys preparation shots we have in the final cut. 

The battle is not exactly after that scene. There is a deleted scene between that moment and the battle with Maggie and brainwashed Jack in captain costume.

[Brando 2,161]

1 hour ago, Goldfingers said:

There is a deleted scene between that moment and the battle with Maggie and brainwashed Jack in captain costume.

Damn, that sounds really cool. Wish we could see that somewhere 

[Jay 39,428]

Today is the 32nd anniversary of the day Hook opened in theaters, and The Legacy of John Williams has published an essay from @John Takis titled "John Williams and the Music of ‘Hook’"

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2023/12/11/hook-essay-by-john-takis/

[Jay 39,428]

The Legacy of John Williams will soon publish an in-depth podcast special with producer Mike Matessino talking about the genesis of this historical soundtrack release and the longtime in the making process to bring it to life. Stay tuned! 🎙🎧

 

https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid0QoFQE9Bz4GKm76fSaiDriJfJ9MQgzj1fEpqeWinez7cGZanuytwu7W7Dgpbir8jyl