HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion

[Dr. Know 326]

3 hours ago, King Mark said:

I prefer alternate Exit Music to the one in main score too. more prominent strings

It put such a big smile on my face

[harryfrishberg 37]

Just finished listening to the first 2 discs and preparing myself for the emotional journey of the 3rd disc. WOW. 

Bravo to Mike, MV, @Jay, and everyone else involved in bringing to life this MASTERFUL release of a spectacular score. Eternally grateful that we can experience it in full with such clarity and with so much thought and care put into the presentation. Thank you!!!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

"Believe" is ok I guess, but I like "Stick with Me."

 

"The Never Song" is kind of annoying, but I could see it being more tolerable in an actual film with each of the Lost Boys singing different verses as was apparently the intention.

 

I definitely dig Smee's Concertina. Could make an interesting addition to a playlist of Williams' more unique source pieces like "Desert Winds."

[artguy360 1,843]

Listening to the album now. Making my own custom playlist is going to be a bit challenging. Loving the music so far though. Like Home Alone, Hook has many similarities to JW's HP1 score. Must be something about movies starting with H.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

Am I really going to be the first to mention the Pirate Rap is real?

Also, I'd never noticed before, but the theme of the Lost Boys Chase, which I didn't think was recurring, shows up in the final battle (during the 'Death of Rufio' track).

[Faleel 5,354]

9 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Am I really going to be the first to mention the Pirate Rap is real?

Also, I'd never noticed before, but the theme of the Lost Boys Chase, which I didn't think was recurring, shows up in the final battle (during the 'Death of Rufio' track).

Would you say the fanfares in "Neverfeast" are related to the "Mothers" theme?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Never song sounds like one of menken demos sung by him or the lyricists. And i can really picture “stick with me” being sung by Scar. Maybe it is because both hook and scar have the same dubbing actor in spanish 😅.

 

in other words. Maybe these songs are not that bad and could have made a disney animation film. Though i think i herad the word “hookers” in low below (which in fact reminisces fathoms below…)

 

And its a shame the most piratey music was rejected. It adds a lot of immersion.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

18 minutes ago, Presto said:

Would you say the fanfares in "Neverfeast" are related to the "Mothers" theme?

 

Hmm, not far off, but not quite close enough to be intentional to my ears. But I guess you never know!

 

The Lost Boys Chase in 'Death of Rufio' seems more clear-cut. The whole theme is there, unaltered, in the trumpets.

 

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, BrotherSound said:

Am I really going to be the first to mention the Pirate Rap is real?

 

Word up!

 

1 hour ago, BrotherSound said:

Also, I'd never noticed before, but the theme of the Lost Boys Chase, which I didn't think was recurring, shows up in the final battle (during the 'Death of Rufio' track).

 

Are you talking about 1:03-1:13?

[mstrox 6,651]

Is Peter Pan high, boy? He ain’t no flyboy!

[pete 907]

Slightly off-topic as my question is about the first expansion. Was there ever any reason/explanation why Farewell Neverland started with a fade from near the end of The End of Hook? I always intensly disliked - hated even! - how Farewell Neverland started on that expansion. I reviewed the booklet notes, and the track description doesn't mention anything odd going on. And looking at the tracks and times from both, From Mermaids to Lost Boys is longer on the previous release. I haven't listened to hear what's differant? I assume the difference isn't music not on the new release

 

Rant over!  So happy that Farewell Neverland starts cleanly as God intended on this perfecto release. 

[BrotherSound 2,242]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Are you talking about 1:03-1:13?

 

Yep! It's brief, but that's the Lost Boys Chase theme in the trumpets, note-for-note.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

27 minutes ago, pete said:

Slightly off-topic as my question is about the first expansion. Was there ever any reason/explanation why Farewell Neverland started with a fade from near the end of The End of Hook? I always intensly disliked - hated even! - how Farewell Neverland started on that expansion. I reviewed the booklet notes, and the track description doesn't mention anything odd going on. And looking at the tracks and times from both, From Mermaids to Lost Boys is longer on the previous release. I haven't listened to hear what's differant? I assume the difference isn't music not on the new release

 

Rant over!  So happy that Farewell Neverland starts cleanly as God intended on this perfecto release. 

I assume it’s because that was taken from the film stems, and the film stems faded into the opening of Farewell Neverland, so there was no other way to include it because they couldn’t be separated. 

[Faleel 5,354]

26 minutes ago, pete said:

Slightly off-topic as my question is about the first expansion. Was there ever any reason/explanation why Farewell Neverland started with a fade from near the end of The End of Hook? I always intensly disliked - hated even! - how Farewell Neverland started on that expansion. I reviewed the booklet notes, and the track description doesn't mention anything odd going on.

Because the old LLL presented the film version, with the dialed out End of Hook fanfares.

29 minutes ago, pete said:

, From Mermaids to Lost Boys is longer on the previous release. I haven't listened to hear what's differant? I assume the difference isn't music not on the new release

 

 

Probably had Enter Rufio combined into it.

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

Is Peter Pan high, boy? He ain’t no flyboy!

 

This Peter Pan highboy...

 

(Definition 2)

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I've listened to all of the songs at least twice now and while I've warmed a bit more to the "Never Song," I don't like "Believe" at all. I think "cloying" is probably the kindest word I have for those sickly sweet lyrics. I do find the pirate songs kinda fun though.

 

Is anyone else considering incorporating the vocal version of "Presenting the Hook" into the main program? I'm pretty sure I will.

[Alex 2,835]

Disc 3 explains so much about the score. A fascinating listening.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Definitely. There aren’t many expansions as illuminating as this one. All the more amazing given that this isn’t even this score’s first expansion.

[Jay 37,369]

Imagine a world with no prior expansion, leak, boot, or clean DVD rips...only going from the OST album in 1991 to this 32 years later...

 

Holy cow what an experience this would be right now.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

While that would certainly make for an exciting few weeks, I’d still rather not have waited 30+ years for more Hook. Like is too short for that. A lot of folks who loved the Hook score when it came out are probably dead now. Personally, I’m grateful I had the previous expanded album before my hearing started to decline. 

 

“How much of human life is lost in waiting.”

[Dr. Know 326]

4 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

While that would certainly make for an exciting few weeks, I’d still rather not have waited 30+ years for more Hook. Like is too short for that. A lot of folks who loved the Hook score when it came out are probably dead now. I’m grateful I had the previous expanded album before my hearing started to decline. 

 

“How much of human life is lost in waiting.”

What a depressing take!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I’m just not gonna bemoan that there were imperfect releases before now. I’d rather have had something all these years than nothing. Obviously, this score deserved the Ultimate Edition from day one, though.

[Trope 527]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Imagine a world with no prior expansion, leak, boot, or clean DVD rips...only going from the OST album in 1991 to this 32 years later...

 

Holy cow what an experience this would be right now.

I ordered this score based on its immense popularity. I’ve only ever listened to the Prologue, never seen the film. I’m very excited to sit down and listen to this full expansion from beginning to end. Hopefully it will arrive before Christmas!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

28 minutes ago, Trope said:

I ordered this score based on its immense popularity. I’ve only ever listened to the Prologue, never seen the film. I’m very excited to sit down and listen to this full expansion from beginning to end. Hopefully it will arrive before Christmas!

 

Wow, really? No familiarity at all, just diving straight in and discovering the whole score in its definitive edition right off the bat? Damn, that's awesome. You're in for a real treat!

[artguy360 1,843]

Does anyone else notice the proto-HP1 sound to much of that Hook score?

 

Unrelated thought, listening to this release a 3rd time through, the music I enjoy most is all the Face of Pan & You are the Pan stuff. Such beautiful melodies.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Proto HP? More like transition from Home Alone to HP.

[1977 1,743]

4 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

I’m just not gonna bemoan that there were imperfect releases before now. I’d rather have had something all these years than nothing.

 

That's how I feel about the could-have-been UEs for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

[Alan 689]

Could including the vocal version of Presenting the Hook as the final track be a cheeky wink to the community that's been shouting "give us Hook!" for so many years?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

Could including the vocal version of Presenting the Hook as the final track be a cheeky wink to the community that's been shouting "give us Hook!" for so many years?

I thought the same! 😂

[Richard Penna 3,694]

5 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

That's how I feel about the could-have-been UEs for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

 

This. I'd much rather have a UE of RotS where most of the more notable unreleased bits are fine in the film, than be dealing with fan edits cobbling together video game snippets.

 

So while LLL's first set is missing some music and uses stems, if that was the best that was possible for LLL to do at the time (IIRC, Sony had one of their employees put the set together, right?) then wouldn't we rather have that, than wait literally another decade for the proper sources to be found?

 

I reckon it should be expected that occasionally an expansion will happen with less than ideal sources, but with knowledge that probably a few years later it'll be redone as studios organise their stuff. Ghostbusters 2 - perfect example. I'm thrilled we got an album of sorts, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone if in a few years someone's finally found the masters.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

But at the same period a perfect sounding bootleg had surfaced. So it added salt to injury. In my case i think i played the LLL cd once.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I will say that the pleasure of this set has been rediscovering a score I thought I knew like the back of my hand from the sessions and previous LLL album. Having the songs and alternates really has added a ton of depth to the grandeur of what exactly Williams was going for with this score in a way previous presentations did not. Themes like the Mothers and Believe melodies previously blended together to me as generic Williams sentimental themes, but hearing them in song form has helped me understand their dramatic purposes much better.

[Jay 37,369]

Amazing!

[QuartalHarmony 543]

14 hours ago, Jay said:

Imagine a world with no prior expansion, leak, boot, or clean DVD rips...only going from the OST album in 1991 to this 32 years later...

 

Holy cow what an experience this would be right now.

 

That's my world you're describing, Jay! Bought the OST in 91 (well, early 92, when it was released in the UK) and never had or heard any of the intervening stuff. I'm hoping my brother-in-law ordered it as my Christmas present before it went OOS - as I asked him nicely to! All being well, on Christmas Day, I'll be listening to my first non-OST music from Hook.

 

Will try to put the experience into words for you. Might take a few days for me to calm down.

 

Mark

[Jay 37,369]

Wow!

 

Did you ever watch the film while using a part of your brain to try to notice music in it that wasn't on the old album?

[Tydirium 1,167]

This set is absolutely fantastic. Currently listening through the Disc 3 presentation first (trying to follow @John Takis’s suggested order from the other thread) after sampling a handful of tracks last night. I can’t believe how much these songs add to my impression of the music as a whole. (It helps that the singers all sound great!) I’m especially excited as I will be rewatching the film tonight with my brother, and it will be the coolest thing ever to hear those classic melodies again, but now while having the song versions of them in the back of my head. Can’t thank the LLL team enough for making this all happen, and kudos to you, @Jay! You should be incredibly proud! Thanks for your hard work behind the scenes all this time.

[Jay 37,369]

Now that you know the "Mothers" song, the early scene where the melody is introduced hits differently, but the whole finale really does too

[Tydirium 1,167]

I bet! That song in particular was a huge surprise for me. I had no idea that melody was originally a song; it always just sounded a bit to me like Home Alone leftovers. (Not that that was ever a bad thing!) And after hearing “Believe,” I will never hear “Exit Music” (nor the many appearances of that theme in the score itself) the same again! It basically becomes an instrumental version of the song, and hearing those lyrics in your head while it closes out the score, changes everything. 

[QuartalHarmony 543]

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

Did you ever watch the film while using a part of your brain to try to notice music in it that wasn't on the old album?

 

Oh, absolutely, so I'm reasonably aware of what I'm missing. It's mostly buried under far too much dialogue and SFX though! Plus, there's all the Disc 3 stuff...

[GerateWohl 4,370]

9 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

This set is absolutely fantastic. Currently listening through the Disc 3 presentation first (trying to follow @John Takis’s suggested order from the other thread) after sampling a handful of tracks last night. I can’t believe how much these songs add to my impression of the music as a whole. (It helps that the singers all sound great!) I’m especially excited as I will be rewatching the film tonight with my brother, and it will be the coolest thing ever to hear those classic melodies again, but now while having the song versions of them in the back of my head. Can’t thank the LLL team enough for making this all happen, and kudos to you, @Jay! You should be incredibly proud! Thanks for your hard work behind the scenes all this time.

From my experience, the less I remember of that movie, the more I can enjoy the music. I found the movie quite failed.

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

I had no idea that melody was originally a song; it always just sounded a bit to me like Home Alone leftovers. (Not that that was ever a bad thing!)

 

Yeah it always reminded me of Home Alone too!

 

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

And after hearing “Believe,” I will never hear “Exit Music” (nor the many appearances of that theme in the score itself) the same again! It basically becomes an instrumental version of the song, and hearing those lyrics in your head while it closes out the score, changes everything. 

 

YES!

 

[Bounty95 558]

It felt so satisfying to delete all the countless fan edits and boots from my library knowing I can finally replace them with this perfect presentation of one of my favourite scores. 

[Brando 1,864]

15 hours ago, Trope said:

never seen the film.

If you're interested, it was on Netflix a while ago, but its free (with ads) on YouTube right now!

 

 

[John Takis 206]

Yes, once you have listened to the songs, the internal logic of certain theme choices during the score really comes into focus. (Debuting the "Believe" melody alongside Peter's first panoramic view of Neverland, for example.)

[Jay 37,369]

Yes!

 

And, awesome new avatar, John!

[harryfrishberg 37]

@Jay - is it too early to ask you for an updated Hook spreadsheet so I can hyper-analyze this magnificent release as compared to other inferior versions? 

[pete 907]

On 08/12/2023 at 9:49 AM, Presto said:

Because the old LLL presented the film version, with the dialed out End of Hook fanfares.

Probably had Enter Rufio combined into it.

 

Thank you. I just listened and yes it does. Wow, I've had the set for over 10 years and didn't notice that - well maybe I noticed 11 years ago and then never listened again. I think what happened was I was put off by the start to Farewell Neverland and I had always liked the OST and some of its specific tracks/edits like Presenting the Hook and The Face of Pan, and the clean start to Farewell Neverland. I think I just chose a few favorites from the first expansion - Exit Music for one, and then was content with the OST plus the suite Williams recorded, which I often listened to. Now I'm full on into exploration mode and wallking around for hours with my noise cancelling headphones as if this new 3CD set were the first expansion

 

And hearing the songs and considering their beautiful orchestral versions, I'm wondering if there's a great score that could be drawn from Thomas and the King? Maybe??

[Edmilson 7,466]

I would just like to add that Williams's action music from 1989 to 1993 (i.e. between his "golden age" of 1977 to 1984 and his post-Lost World modern age) is very underrated. On this period we got "Escape from Venice", "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra", "On the Tank", "Belly of the Steel Beast", "The Land Race", "T-Rex Rescue and Finale" and, of course, "The Ultimate War". They're so fun and yet so intense!

 

Speaking of The Ultimate War, I can hear some echoes from it on The Phantom Menace, particularly "Anakin Takes Off in Spaceship".

[Faleel 5,354]

34 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I would just like to add that Williams's action music from 1989 to 1993 (i.e. between his "golden age" of 1977 to 1984 and his post-Lost World modern age) is very underrated. On this period we got "Escape from Venice", "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra", "On the Tank", "Belly of the Steel Beast", "The Land Race", "T-Rex Rescue and Finale" and, of course, "The Ultimate War". They're so fun and yet so intense!

 

Speaking of The Ultimate War, I can hear some echoes from it on The Phantom Menace, particularly "Anakin Takes Off in Spaceship".

Huh, I always felt Modern age started with JP T-Rex Rescue.

 

(Nowadays I feel it starts with Streets of Shanghai from EotS)

[Edmilson 7,466]

19 minutes ago, Presto said:

Huh, I always felt Modern age started with JP T-Rex Rescue.

 

It could be, T-Rex Rescue is a bit more intense and violent than the others I named. 

 

But I'd like to see an expert's opinion on this