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HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion


Jay

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10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Does the album version of We Don't Wanna Grow Up contain any unique material that the film version doesn't have?

 

Nope. It's the same performances, just edited down.

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Just listening to the said for the first time (which is great). And just found on disk 2 track 1, Stop That Clock!, at about 1:03 shortly a familiar tune from another favourite score of mine: "Have Another Cherry!" from The Witches of Eastwick".

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That bit at 1:03 is heard 4 times in the score!

 

1-22 Hook's Epiphany 0:18-0:48
1-25 Hook's Lesson 0:00-0:32
1-25 Hook's Lesson 1:19-1:34
2-01 Stop That Clock 1:03-1:21

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I called it the "Stick With Me Supporting Ostinato" in my list of themes.

 

John Takis' liner notes describe it as "A mincing humoresque motif [...] derived from the harmonies and intervals of “Stick With Me,”" and later "A disarming comical motif derived from “Stick With Me”"

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Has anyone worked out what each of the bits of the Concertina Medley (D3 T23) are?

 

The only bit I can identify are the two opening parts from Pirate Sequence (0:00 Down in the Deep Below and 0:35 James Hook, son of a sea cook)

 

@Jay, do you have a list you’re keeping to yourself for the time being, or do we need to combine our ears and brains to work it out ourselves?

 

Mark

 

 

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Received my Set finally, absolutely fantastic!

Thank you to all the people involved for making this gem a reality! :)

 

One of my favorite new discoveries are the low below B theme appareances (don't know a better name, how do you call it?).

I like this upbeat piraty melody better than the main low below theme (A theme?), which appears in the refrain and is as far as i know the only part carried over into the film.

Or did you encounter any moments of this B theme in the final film soundtrack?

 

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I have no notes or information about the concertina medley.  It was a bunch of separate recordings that were made as options for Spielberg to play on set for Bob Hoskins to mime playing a concertina to.  But none of it got used and I don't even remember if you see Smee with a concertina at all in the final film - I think David Crosby has it instead!

 

@Goldfingers might know more!

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2 hours ago, SF1_freeze said:

I like this upbeat piraty melody better than the main low below theme (A theme?), which appears in the refrain and is as far as i know the only part carried over into the film.

Or did you encounter any moments of this B theme in the final film soundtrack?


It was part of the original (unrecorded) version of 5M5 Show Us Your Hook, but was replaced with ‘Stick With Me’ when revised.

 

Here’s a mockup from @ragoz350:

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:


It was part of the original (unrecorded) version of 5M5 Show Us Your Hook, but was replaced with ‘Stick With Me’ when revised.

 

Here’s a mockup from @ragoz350:

 

 

 

Is there a version of the score, where Stick With Me doesn't appear until Hook's Epiphany?

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

That bit at 1:03 is heard 4 times in the score!

 

1-22 Hook's Epiphany 0:18-0:48
1-25 Hook's Lesson 0:00-0:32
1-25 Hook's Lesson 1:19-1:34
2-01 Stop That Clock 1:03-1:21

But it's this, isn't it?

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Presto said:

Is there a version of the score, where Stick With Me doesn't appear until Hook's Epiphany?

 

No because it appears twice in Hook's Entrance and once in Draw Your Sword

 

 

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

But it's this, isn't it?

 

No.  Not the same, just similar

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AFAIK the rest of the little pieces, after the first 2 that clearly riff of Low Below material, are completely original ideas Williams wrote in late 1990 or early 1991, and then never returned to when writing the score for the film that fall.

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Well, I said as far as I know!  I don't know if anyone undertook any research to see if there are any known public domain compositions in there.

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2 hours ago, BrotherSound said:


It was part of the original (unrecorded) version of 5M5 Show Us Your Hook, but was replaced with ‘Stick With Me’ when revised.

 

Here’s a mockup from @ragoz350:

 

 

 

That is SO fantastic! Are there any other mocked-up un-recorded things for Hook?

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Are there any other mocked-up un-recorded things for Hook?

 

Not that I'm aware of. There's not a whole lot else of note to mock up, but I would love to hear the unrecorded section of 15M4 The Next Morning that was replaced by an insert prior to the session. Say, @ragoz350 or @Datameister, want to take that on sometime?

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22 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

 

Not that I'm aware of. There's not a whole lot else of note to mock up, but I would love to hear the unrecorded section of 15M4 The Next Morning that was replaced by an insert prior to the session. Say, @ragoz350 or @Datameister, want to take that on sometime?

As written The Bedroom opening.

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

AFAIK the rest of the little pieces, after the first 2 that clearly riff of Low Below material, are completely original ideas Williams wrote in late 1990 or early 1991, and then never returned to when writing the score for the film that fall.

 

What would be interesting to know is whether John Williams composed the music in anticipation of what was happening in the script or if it was just random compositions that they tested on set. In my opinion, it must have been anticipated, but given the duration of the medley and the number of scenes in which the concertina appears in the script, it seems too short to me.

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Finally I got my copy! I'm loving it so far. My only criticism is with the case, lately lalaland cases are quite cheap and the plastic gets scratched even looking at it.

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In many ways the Hook score reminds me of Return of the Jedi. Especially listening to The Ultimate War. The massive amount of themes changing hands, the comedic action music. 

Even though I confess, I am rather a fan of Williams' more recent way of action writing which less apears as a stacato potpourri of themes but more motivic and has to my mind a more elegant structure overall. 

On the other hand, the theme variations towards the end are really wonderful and the orchestra sounds just great. Sounds really like a lot of hard work. Imagining an orchestra playing the last 40 minutes of the score in one go must be exhausting for them. 

Are there live to projection concerts for Hook by the way?

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16 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said:

A timestamp of exactly which bit you’re referring to would help.

 

Do you mean Down in the Deep Below (D3 T8, 0:08)? Or something else?

 

Yes, this melody exactly. It also appears at the start of the smees concertina medley and of course in the instrumental low below.

 

In the mockup it appears when Smee marches starts, what a pity this version wasn't recorded, it's great.

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4 hours ago, DrTenma said:

Finally I got my copy! I'm loving it so far. My only criticism is with the case, lately lalaland cases are quite cheap and the plastic gets scratched even looking at it.

Yeah i think i got it twice or thrice from the shelf… and the third time i noticed slipping scratches on the back. And i could swear those were not before…. And the shelf is not tight with cds…

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Maybe this has been answered before but does someone know who sings Stick with Me and the Never Song? Didn't saw it in the song credits...

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On 05/12/2023 at 3:27 PM, Jay said:

It is unknown who sang those.  None of the paperwork from 1991 had this information.  Mike made every possible attempt to find out, but no leads resulted in any answers. 

 

We're actually hoping this release might cause those two singers to come out of the woodwork and identify themselves!

 

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On 13/01/2024 at 4:58 PM, Jay said:

and also that I see that their credits are added to any new printings of the packaging, plus update the metadata.

 

Where can we find the metadata? Is he referring to CD text?

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

@Jay In regards to the LLL 3CD Disc 1's Pirate Town and Presenting The Hook, I've been able to get a reasonably clean split for I'll Take Those Shoes and Presenting The Hook using phase inversion with the Vocal Version track, but I'm wondering if it'd be possible to cleanly split off the other cues too.

 

What are the timecodes for Arrival At Neverland, Slicing The Hand, and I'll Take Those Shoes?

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I think everyone should enjoy the music as presented for a while longer first.

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49 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I agree. Except that Pick 'em Up is just no main program material.

The only alterations I have made to my preferred complete score program are as follows: 

 

- Replace Prologue (Extended Version) with Prologue - I prefer the takes used on the regular OST Prologue and I’m not a big fan of the viola Peter Pan statement.

- Remove We Don’t Wanna Grow Up - Potentially blasphemous I know, but I consider it to be a source cue of sorts, and not having to endure it makes me want to revisit the score from beginning to end much more often.

- Replace Banning Back Home (Film Version) with Banning Back Home (Extended Version)

- Place The Face of Pan (Choral Version) in the main program

- Replace Pick ‘Em Up with The Never-Band

- Place the OST version of The Never-Feast in the main program

- Replace When You’re Alone with the instrumental version - I’m still debating this choice, but I enjoy keeping the score song-less.

 

Other than those few minor adjustments, I adore listening to the score from start to finish, and being transported on an incredible musical by the maestro.

 

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22 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Why?

I like hearing more statements of the awesome Lost Boys theme (or whatever that great theme is officially called)! Honestly I love both versions, but from a purely musical perspective, I prefer the flow of ideas in the OST version a fraction more.

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