Composer Threads The Official James Horner Thread

[Trope 527]

Not sure where to post this, but I listened to James' score for Iris (2001) for the first time and it has shot up into my top 10 Horner scores. I know nothing about the film, but the music is really wonderful. I love the harmonic palette, how it remains very static throughout the whole album, and how James creates beautiful textures by weaving together contrapuntal melodic lines, often using solo instruments.

 

I haven't seen too much discussion of this score online; I guess in 2001 it was overshadowed by A Beautiful Mind and Enemy at the Gates. What are your thoughts on Iris, and can you recommend other Horner scores that feature similarly sustained orchestral atmospheres?

[Thor 7,508]

25 minutes ago, Trope said:

Not sure where to post this, but I listened to James' score for Iris (2001) for the first time and it has shot up into my top 10 Horner scores. I know nothing about the film, but the music is really wonderful. I love the harmonic palette, how it remains very static throughout the whole album, and how James creates beautiful textures by weaving together contrapuntal melodic lines, often using solo instruments.

 

I haven't seen too much discussion of this score online; I guess in 2001 it was overshadowed by A Beautiful Mind and Enemy at the Gates. What are your thoughts on Iris, and can you recommend other Horner scores that feature similarly sustained orchestral atmospheres?

 

It's a great score. A BEAUTIFUL MIND, as you mention, would fall somewhat in the same category. I think you'll find some of the same elements in many of his other, calmer, more explorative works as well - HOUSE OF CARDS, THE SPITFIRE GRILL, TO GILLIAN ON HER 37TH BIRTHDAY, HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG, THE LIFE BEFORE HER EYES and even my alltime favourite Horner score THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PAJAMAS.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

35 minutes ago, Thor said:

 THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PAJAMAS.

 

I've only discovered this score recently. It's so beautiful and haunting.

 

The theme heard best in "Boys Playing Airplanes" & "Remembrance, Remembrance" is one of the most beautiful melodies he's written imo. There's a certain elegance to it.

 

When I listen to some of his more recent scores it's even more of a shame to think what he would've done in the last 10 years. Because it really sounded like he got some new inspiration or something.

Still deeply missed.

[Thor 7,508]

3 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

The theme heard best in "Boys Playing Airplanes" & "Remembrance, Remembrance" is one of the most beautiful melodies he's written imo. There's a certain elegance to it.

 

My favourite track (and one of my alltime favourite Horner tracks) is "An Odd Discovery Beyond the Trees", but it's all stunningly gorgeous.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Oh yes. That is gorgeous

[karelm 2,914]

I quite like Something Wicked This Way Comes.  Some very interesting music from Horner's early period but quite different from the other scores of this period like Star Trek, Krull, the Roger Corman films. 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,536]

SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES is a beautiful score, from a beautiful film.

[crocodile 8,017]

I hope it gets re-released.

 

Karol

[Bellosh 3,419]

5 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I hope it gets re-released.

 

Karol

 

Is your avatar from the Land Before Time scoring sessions?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,536]

It's either that, or it's from AN AMERICAN TAIL.

[Bellosh 3,419]

6 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It's either that, or it's from AN AMERICAN TAIL.

 

Oh yes!  Completely forgot about that one too.

 

I always forget that we essentially have Spielberg/Horner collabs because god knows Spielberg put his touch in those great films

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

I don't know if they met every time Spielberg was involved with certain Horner's score but he was involved with a tons of them:

• 1985: Amazing Stories as an executive producer and developper
• 1986: An American Tail as an executive producer
• 1987: Batteries Not Included as an executive producer
• 1988: The Land Before Time as an executive producer
• 1989: Tummy Trouble as an executive producer (short film from Roger Rabbit)
• 1991: An American Tail: Fievel Goes West as a producer
• 1989: Dad as an executive producer
• 1993: We're Back a Dinosaur Story as an executive producer
• 1995: Casper as an executive producer
• 1995: Balto as an executive producer
• 1998: The Mask of Zorro as an executive producer
• 1998: Deep Impact as an executive producer
• 2005: The Legend of Zorro as an executive producer

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

i guess it was Spielberg's way of 'cheating' on Johnny.   

[karelm 2,914]

3 hours ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

I don't know if they met every time Spielberg was involved with certain Horner's score but he was involved with a tons of them:

• 1985: Amazing Stories as an executive producer and developper
• 1986: An American Tail as an executive producer
• 1987: Batteries Not Included as an executive producer
• 1988: The Land Before Time as an executive producer
• 1989: Tummy Trouble as an executive producer (short film from Roger Rabbit)
• 1991: An American Tail: Fievel Goes West as a producer
• 1989: Dad as an executive producer
• 1993: We're Back a Dinosaur Story as an executive producer
• 1995: Casper as an executive producer
• 1995: Balto as an executive producer
• 1998: The Mask of Zorro as an executive producer
• 1998: Deep Impact as an executive producer
• 2005: The Legend of Zorro as an executive producer

 

I understood The Land before Time was an idea from Lucas and Spielberg as a sort of sequel to Fantasia's superb dinosaur sequence, so Horner was to follow in the footsteps of Stravinsky.  So, you can imagine lots of input from Lucas and Spielberg but maybe temped with Rite of Spring. Am I right on this or thinking of something else?  There was originally not supposed to be any dialog like Fantasia.  

 

 

And Fantasia...and absolute masterpiece of style, form, music, and craft.

 

 

[Bayesian 1,363]

3 hours ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

I don't know if they met every time Spielberg was involved with certain Horner's score but he was involved with a tons of them:

• 1985: Amazing Stories as an executive producer and developper
• 1986: An American Tail as an executive producer
• 1987: Batteries Not Included as an executive producer
• 1988: The Land Before Time as an executive producer
• 1989: Tummy Trouble as an executive producer (short film from Roger Rabbit)
• 1991: An American Tail: Fievel Goes West as a producer
• 1989: Dad as an executive producer
• 1993: We're Back a Dinosaur Story as an executive producer
• 1995: Casper as an executive producer
• 1995: Balto as an executive producer
• 1998: The Mask of Zorro as an executive producer
• 1998: Deep Impact as an executive producer
• 2005: The Legend of Zorro as an executive producer

 

Like you imply, I'm unsure how often Spielberg and Horner actively collaborated. I wouldn't be surprised if American Tail was the last time. Executive producer just means he signed his name on the check underwriting the production costs.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

A complete Zorro release is coming out per Dan Redfeld

[Tallguy 3,398]

I should probably just accept that Zorro is NOT nearly as good as The Rocketeer and enjoy it for what it is.

[crocodile 8,017]

5 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

A complete Zorro release is coming out per Dan Redfeld

Who is that?

 

Karol

[Faleel 5,353]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

Who is that?

 

Karol

Perhaps this guy?

 

https://danredfeld.com/about/

[Drawgoon 100]

7 hours ago, DangerMotif said:

A complete Zorro release is coming out per Dan Redfeld

 

Mask of Zorro? Legend of Zorro? Both?

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:03 AM, karelm said:

And Fantasia...and absolute masterpiece of style, form, music, and craft.

 

it's fascinating to think that Stravinsky was only 58 years old when Fantasia was released.

[Jay 37,369]

Does anybody know why the James Horner Film Music website doesn't have any articles about any of the expansions since Jumanji and Willow from the middle of 2022?

 

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/

 

No articles for:

 

Deadly Blessing (Intrada)

Gorky Park (LLL)

Windtalkers (Intrada)

Humanoids from the Deep (Intrada)

Battle Beyond The Stars (Intrada)

Mask of Zorro (LLL)

Sneakers (LLL)

Dad (Quartet)

 

yet.  Huh.

 

@Jean-Baptiste Martin ?

[Tallguy 3,398]

On 24/09/2023 at 10:32 AM, Tallguy said:

I should probably just accept that Zorro is NOT nearly as good as The Rocketeer and enjoy it for what it is.

 

So I've taken my advice and started to fall in love with this score.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

On 08/12/2023 at 3:09 PM, Jay said:

Does anybody know why the James Horner Film Music website doesn't have any articles about any of the expansions since Jumanji and Willow from the middle of 2022?

 

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/

 

No articles for:

 

Deadly Blessing (Intrada)

Gorky Park (LLL)

Windtalkers (Intrada)

Humanoids from the Deep (Intrada)

Battle Beyond The Stars (Intrada)

Mask of Zorro (LLL)

Sneakers (LLL)

Dad (Quartet)

 

yet.  Huh.

 

@Jean-Baptiste Martin ?

 

I don't, but it's a real shame. I wish there were an equivalent James Horner podcast to The Goldsmith Odyssey and Legacy of John Williams, that would really dig into these releases. I did manage to squeeze in a last minute question about Battle Beyond the Stars with Chris Malone and Doug Fake when I was speaking with them about MacArthur (a little over 1 hr 10 min into this):

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/14140529-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-macarthur-1977

 

Yavar

[Erik Woods 555]

On 13/12/2023 at 6:43 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

 

I don't, but it's a real shame. I wish there were an equivalent James Horner podcast to The Goldsmith Odyssey and Legacy of John Williams, that would really dig into these releases. I did manage to squeeze in a last minute question about Battle Beyond the Stars with Chris Malone and Doug Fake when I was speaking with them about MacArthur (a little over 1 hr 10 min into this):

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/14140529-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-macarthur-1977

 

Yavar

If anyone is going to do it right it would be Jean-Baptiste Martin and his team. 

 

-Erik-

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:09 PM, Jay said:

Does anybody know why the James Horner Film Music website doesn't have any articles about any of the expansions since Jumanji and Willow from the middle of 2022?

 

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/

 

No articles for:

 

Deadly Blessing (Intrada)

Gorky Park (LLL)

Windtalkers (Intrada)

Humanoids from the Deep (Intrada)

Battle Beyond The Stars (Intrada)

Mask of Zorro (LLL)

Sneakers (LLL)

Dad (Quartet)

 

yet.  Huh.

 

@Jean-Baptiste Martin ?

I was wondering, too. But a few days ago they published a short summary of the latest releases (except Dad).
http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/a-hornerian-summer-and-autumn/

[Jay 37,369]

That's good!  I miss those in-depth articles though.  Maybe @Jean-Baptiste Martin is saving them all for his book now?

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

Hey guys,

 

Thank you very much for your interest in the articles and I'm really touched that some people are asking for them.

 

There are several reasons why the detailed analyses have been discontinued:

• The organization of the concert in May 2022 that was broadcast worldwide on YouTube, the one with Spectral Shimmers and A Forest Passage, was a culmination for JHFM. It was the result of 4 years' work. Often after this kind of event, there's a bit of a lull.
• Life offers us so much to discover. Over the years, part of the team has moved on to other occupations, passions...
• Personally, I've been working on the book since March 2018. Ever since I met the composer's family and visited his studio. All my free time for almost 6 years has gone into this project. It's my main objective and so I've given up writing articles for the site.
• We liked to publish these articles exclusively, i.e. before you received the albums. To do this, you had to be warned of the releases and receive the albums in advance (or else write the article at top speed in 48 hours, but that's not ideal). Today, only one publisher allows us to do this, and asks me to check the content before publication.  I do this with pleasure and rigor, but the above-mentioned factors (lack of time, priority given to the book, small team of volunteers) prevent me from writing new articles.

The book will be 1600 pages long, divided into 4 volumes. The first volume is scheduled for early 2024. Its aim is to bring together all known information on the composer's work. It's quite a challenge. Probably impossible, but we're giving it our best shot.

As for the podcast... it was planned, but once again the lack of time, of available people... prevented it from happening. I hope that the release of the books will be the occasion for several podcasts.

[Jay 37,369]

Four volumes, wow!! I figured you just split it in half.  Sounds like a phenomenal effort!

 

And yes, that explains perfectly why the articles stopped!

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

Yes, it's the project of a lifetime.

 

I can't wait to share all this work.

 

As for this first volume, I'm particularly proud of the work on James Horner's youth. What takes 6 lines on Wikipedia makes 20 pages in the book, thanks to the memories of his brother and his high school music teacher. And I've got about 30 pages on his university career.

 

 

 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

1 hour ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

Yes, it's the project of a lifetime.

 

I can't wait to share all this work.

 

As for this first volume, I'm particularly proud of the work on James Horner's youth. What takes 6 lines on Wikipedia makes 20 pages in the book, thanks to the memories of his brother and his high school music teacher. And I've got about 30 pages on his university career.

 

 

 

Really excited for this

[karelm 2,914]

17 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

Yes, it's the project of a lifetime.

 

I can't wait to share all this work.

 

As for this first volume, I'm particularly proud of the work on James Horner's youth. What takes 6 lines on Wikipedia makes 20 pages in the book, thanks to the memories of his brother and his high school music teacher. And I've got about 30 pages on his university career.

 

 

 

I have friends that knew him in high school and had some interesting stories about him.  One worked with him at the Classical Annex of Tower Records and fondly recalls their conversations where he predicted he'll have a section in the music annex some day.  He wasn't wrong.

[Edmilson 7,466]

9 minutes ago, karelm said:

I have friends that knew him in high school and had some interesting stories about him.

Was he of the "nerdy, shy and quiet" kind (like I assume all film composers were at school, except for maybe Zimmer and Elfman) or was he a member of the cool kids club? Perhaps something in between? Did he suffer bullying from the sports guys (again, like every other film composer) or was he a success with the ladies?

 

TL;DR: was he a loser or a jock? Judging by how Hollywood portrays schools on their movies, I assume 99% of the people working there were nerdy losers who now use movies and TV shows as some sort of therapy for all the bullying they suffered as kids.

[Jay 37,369]

Is "The Emotionalist" the subtitle for all four volumes, or does each volume have a different subtitle?

[GerateWohl 4,370]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Was he of the "nerdy, shy and quiet" kind (like I assume all film composers were at school, except for maybe Zimmer and Elfman) or was he a member of the cool kids club? Perhaps something in between? Did he suffer bullying from the sports guys (again, like every other film composer) or was he a success with the ladies?

 

TL;DR: was he a loser or a jock? Judging by how Hollywood portrays schools on their movies, I assume 99% of the people working there were nerdy losers who now use movies and TV shows as some sort of therapy for all the bullying they suffered as kids.

Wasn't Horner diagnosed somewhat autistic? Makes it seem unlikely that he was extroverted at high school.

[Edmilson 7,466]

18 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Wasn't Horner diagnosed somewhat autistic? Makes it seem unlikely that he was extroverted at high school.

He certainly seemed to have a certain level of autism judging by his interviews and videos and etc. Also, he didn't seem to have too many "social awareness" or whatever the way it's called, considering incidents like his infamous Troy interview where he gratuitously bashed Yared and his rejected score. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Horner was the "weird kid" during his school years.

 

OTOH I remember reading somewhere that he dated Jerry Goldsmith's daughter in high school, so even in school he wasn't a complete Sheldon Cooper-like type.

[JTN 2,030]

14 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

his infamous Troy interview where he gratuitously bashed Yared and his rejected score.

It's interesting to hear, because when I interviewed Gabriel Yared, were were discussing TROY and he never once said anything derogatory about Horner or his score. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't have, just that he was polite enough not to. His beef wasn't with Horner after all, but the producers. Too bad that Horner went public with his thoughts on Yared's score that people couldn't judge for themselves or Yared couldn't defend himself. 

 

@EdmilsonDo you by any chance have a link to the interview? I would love to listen to that bit. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

OTOH I remember reading somewhere that he dated Jerry Goldsmith's daughter in high school, so even in school he wasn't a complete Sheldon Cooper-like type.

 

He and Carrie went on a single date.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

7 minutes ago, JTW said:

18 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

his infamous Troy interview where he gratuitously bashed Yared and his rejected score.

It's interesting to hear, because when I interviewed Gabriel Yared, were were discussing TROY and he never once said anything derogatory about Horner or his score.

 

Perhaps he realised Horner's the better score. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

19 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

He certainly seemed to have a certain level of autism judging by his interviews and videos and etc. Also, he didn't seem to have too many "social awareness" or whatever the way it's called, considering incidents like his infamous Troy interview where he gratuitously bashed Yared and his rejected score. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Horner was the "weird kid" during his school years.

Maybe I am wrongly informed here. I thought, I heard it in some documentary about him. But I might remember it wrongly. I don't want to spread any fake news here.

[JTN 2,030]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Perhaps he realised Horner's the better score. 

Or perhaps he (Yared) simply was a gentleman.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

3 minutes ago, JTW said:

Or perhaps he (Yared) simply was a gentleman.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he is; it would fit with his music.

 

What would you say is the best introductions to his music?

[JTN 2,030]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What's the best introductions to his music?

OFF:

I would recommend CAMILLE CLAUDEL, that's his favourite score of his own work. 

The first score I heard by him was THE ENGLISH PATIENT where the title song is sung in Hungarian by Hungarian singer Márta Sebestyén.

COLD MOUNTAIN is excellent as well. CITY OF ANGELS is beautiful. 

His big break was "37°2 le matin" (a.k.a. "Betty Blue"). 

Other honourable mentions:

Troy, The Talented Mr. Ripley, Autumn in New York, Das Leben der anderen, Possession, etc. 

 

He has many great scores. 

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Is "The Emotionalist" the subtitle for all four volumes, or does each volume have a different subtitle?

It will be the same title for all 4 volumes.

From the outset of the project, I had imagined a single object, but I finally decided to divide it up when I saw the number of pages.

The first volume is 430 pages long.

[Jay 37,369]

I was surprised to see the first volume goes all the way up to 1989.  That's a lot of scores!

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

I'm going to dig out an old infographic I made a few years ago for a meeting with the project's patrons.

 

One decade = one volume
The number of projects is decreasing, but the number of pages is almost identical for each volume. Why is this? Because the more time passes, the more information is available... And also, part of volume 4 is devoted to independent chapters: the man and his passions, the 1046 appearances of the 4 notes...

[Erik Woods 555]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

It's interesting to hear, because when I interviewed Gabriel Yared, were were discussing TROY and he never once said anything derogatory about Horner or his score. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't have, just that he was polite enough not to. His beef wasn't with Horner after all, but the producers. Too bad that Horner went public with his thoughts on Yared's score that people couldn't judge for themselves or Yared couldn't defend himself. 

 

@EdmilsonDo you by any chance have a link to the interview? I would love to listen to that bit. 

Here you go!
https://web.archive.org/web/20160503015454/http://www.filmmusicmag.com/audio/fmr/ots/OTS-130_James_Horner_FMR_Archives_01.mp3

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

I'm going to dig out an old infographic I made a few years ago for a meeting with the project's patrons.

 

 

One decade = one volume
The number of projects is decreasing, but the number of pages is almost identical for each volume. Why is this? Because the more time passes, the more information is available... And also, part of volume 4 is devoted to independent chapters: the man and his passions, the 1046 appearances of the 4 notes...

 

Amazing!

[Andy 4,138]

When’s the book coming and where can I buy it?

[karelm 2,914]

11 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Was he of the "nerdy, shy and quiet" kind (like I assume all film composers were at school, except for maybe Zimmer and Elfman) or was he a member of the cool kids club? Perhaps something in between? Did he suffer bullying from the sports guys (again, like every other film composer) or was he a success with the ladies?

 

TL;DR: was he a loser or a jock? Judging by how Hollywood portrays schools on their movies, I assume 99% of the people working there were nerdy losers who now use movies and TV shows as some sort of therapy for all the bullying they suffered as kids.

The impression I got is that he was very unpopular as a teen and came across as an arrogant teen.  I think it was because he did have aspergers and those who knew him in the 70's probably considered it extremely nerdy and unsocial but today we might realize that was beyond his control.  I've heard lots of stories from those who knew him that he had lots of social issues.  For example, while in conversation, he would say what he wanted and when the other person responded, he walked away thinking the conversation had ended leaving them in a state of bewilderment since they were mid sentence.   I also believe it is a spectrum where those far in it aren't aware of social cues.  I've heard so many stories from musicians and people who knew him who call this out.  Another thing was some of his big cues were very, very difficult and he couldn't really understand the stress he was placing on the players demanding they get the notes correct without realizing the harder they get pushed the less likely they'll nail it.  He just didn't know any better but I think those are important stories to tell to better understand who he really was.