Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[justaguy 68]

9 hours ago, publicist said:

"Especially the sound, no idea what happened differently, but the score of Giacchino sounds much better than that of Episode VII - it looks denser, fuller, better. Just like the old episodes. "

I guess what that person means is the mixing/mastering/sound quality, not the composition itself.(?)

[crumbs 14,316]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I have never called it Finn's Theme and JW certainly never did.  I liked David Collins' (of Star Wars Oxygen) take on it; he thinks of it as an action theme specifically for the Falcon.  The last time its used is when they're running up to the Falcon from the Rathtars.

 

FWIW, there was an amusing unreleased AND unused iteration of the motif (played with bouncing plucked strings) that sounded like it may have accompanied the scene of Rey and Finn crawling around under the floor vents before The Rathtars sequence.

 

It probably added too much levity to the film so they removed it, but it would narrow it down to Finn's theme IMHO (were it not deleted).

[gkgyver 1,645]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The schedule is no excuse! AOTC was done on the quick too!

 

Which is why it sucks.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The schedule is no excuse! AOTC was done on the quick too!

 

Dude, AotC sucked. 

[Will 2,215]

11 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Personally, I think what Williams did for the Falcon chase on Jakku, and the Rathtar stuff was not musically interesting at all. I skip all those tracks regularly when I listen to the score.

 

Both "The Falcon" and the end of "The Rathtars" are Williams at his very best. Even the non-thematic middle of the Rathtars is pretty good, mostly in how it builds to the awesome Finn's theme segment that I adore. (And of course if you're talking about the OST "The Rathtars" has the phenomenally nostalgic main theme rendition at the beginning.)

 

"The Rathtars" OST version (the Finn's theme segment) is also missing a very short but very cool moment (at least IMO) that's in the film. 

[toothless 963]

Quote

And though Michael Giacchino’s score doesn’t use as much of John Williams’ original score as fans may like, it serves the story well. 

http://io9.gizmodo.com/rogue-one-truly-understands-how-to-be-a-great-star-wars-1790002570?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Quote

A thought for poor Michael Giacchino who had only four weeks to write the less inspired score of the story of the saga. It sounds Star Wars, but it's flat overall without Desplat. Fortunately, the best notes - and tears - arrive at the right time, towards the end, when Giacchino stops making John Williams and makes Giacchino.

http://lestoilesheroiques.fr/2016/12/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-critique-film-avis.html

[Will 2,215]

8 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

There's some great highlights on TFA but there's definitely a chunk of the middle that all blends into one for me. 

 

Is Finn's theme really Finn's theme? Does it actually appear after the Rathtar chace or a season that doesn't involve running tovthe Falcon or the Falcon itself?

 

8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I have never called it Finn's Theme and JW certainly never did.  I liked David Collins' (of Star Wars Oxygen) take on it; he thinks of it as an action theme specifically for the Falcon.  The last time its used is when they're running up to the Falcon from the Rathtars.

 

8 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 

Yeah, David's theory is what I was getting at alright. 

 

I dunno, Boyega mentioned a Finn's theme and it seems people were rushing to find something that fit that description even though there's nothing to really suggest a Finn's theme. 

 

I wonder would it have scored the speeser chance? If we knew it'd answer a few questions. 

 

Actually, Disco Stu, the last time it's used is when they are preparing to fly toward Starkiller at light speed (yes, they're in the Falcon). Right before the Rebel fanfare.

 

I've always assumed it was Finn's theme simply because Boyega said, "It's pretty cool to have your own theme," after attending a session. 

 

But I've heard Collins' theory and it's definitely something to consider. 

 

I think the theme fits Finn's character well. It has a very breathless quality -- most notably in Follow Me, where the woodwinds kind of add a breathless squeak. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I still struggle to listen to 'Finn's Motif' without hearing this theme from one of my all-time favourite scores of John's -

 

1:07 and throughout the whole piece.

 

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

1 hour ago, Will said:

I think the theme fits Finn's character well. It has a very breathless quality -- most notably in Follow Me, where the woodwinds kind of add a breathless squeak. 

 

 

Quite fitting given that, at least for the first 30 minutes or so that we get to see Finn, he seems to be mostly out of breath. 

[Will 2,215]

46 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

Quite fitting given that, at least for the first 30 minutes or so that we get to see Finn, he seems to be mostly out of breath. 

 

Indeed!

 

---------------

 

Negative NYT and New Yorker reviews don't mention score, but positive Variety one does (http://variety.com/2016/film/reviews/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-review-1201939299/):

 

Quote

Still, between epic battles featuring scores of familiar spaceships and the genuine thrill of hearing composer Michael Giacchino riff on John Williams’ classic score, there’s no denying that the film belongs to the creative universe Lucas established. 

 

[KK 3,307]

4 hours ago, Blumenkohl said:

 

Dude, AotC sucked. 

 

 

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I still struggle to listen to 'Finn's Motif' without hearing this theme from one of my all-time favourite scores of John's -

 

1:07 and throughout the whole piece.

 

 

 

Yup, it's a very common modern Williams trope. Still, pretty effective in film.

[artguy360 1,843]

15 hours ago, crumbs said:

Williams wasn't joking when he said Rey is the main reason he wants to come back. After all, her music is leaps and bounds beyond most of the other writing in the score. The Jedi Steps is easily the most focused cue in the film, too. But it's almost jarring how the depth of orchestral texture and refinement in Rey's concert suite stands out against the restraint of the score proper.

 

Overall TFA fits the film like a glove but there's definitely sections of uninteresting underscore. And weirdly, much of the unreleased music sounds more "showy" than the final score.

 

Gotta wonder if JJ's total inability to figure out the film's tone until the dying months of post-production contributed to this? Quantity over quality sort of thing, where JW was constantly rewriting cues and had less inclination to refine or add more musical layers. Tracks like The Rathtars! are an instant skip for me; not musically interesting in the slightest (but neither is the Grievous material in ROTS).

I enjoy the underscore in TFA a lot and I find it more refined than a lot of the underscore in AOTC and ROTS. Where that material sounds either like 1st oass writing or overcompensating for the weakness of the scene itself, the underscore in TFA sounds more refined and carefully measured. For example, I love the underscore when Maz is talking to Rey about Luke's lightsaber. I think there's a solo in there along with other mysterious but sparse music before Rey runs away and we get a big, dramatic statement of Rey's theme.

 

To me TFA has balance between underscore that is reminiscent in orchestration and melody to ANH an big statements of major motifs like the Resistance March, Kylo Ren's theme, Rey's theme, and a lot of energetic action music. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I don't think I'd see it as a "random" action theme in that case. The Falcon chase is one of the defining set pieces of the movie! Also I think a connection could be made with how they're both themes of flight and heroism. They both just capture the film's optimism and energy nicely when brought together. Technically Poe's theme functions as an action theme as well.

 

I've always really liked the Finn/Poe thing too but I think it's just a stretch to specifically connect it with only his character in how it's used in the film. I think if anything you might as well bring Rey into it and say that Williams is bringing together all the exciting adventures and exploits of the three new heroes. Between both of these themes you've got the TIE fighter escape, the Falcon chase, the Rathtars escape, the Takodana battle, and even destroying Starkiller. In that way you could call it a Rey/Finn action motif for that first leg of the adventure (which also still allows for the "Finn on the run" imagery), which then disappears as they split up and their story becomes more perilous. Combining that with Poe's theme is perhaps Williams fully expressing all that youthful energy that he said he felt watching it.

 

I still can't remember if JW himself called that thing for Finn in an interview or if it's all taken from what Boyega said. I guess I would be okay just saying it's Finn's "by default" since Rey has her personal theme but more than any specific character, what it really feels like to me is Williams almost tapping into the zippy pacing and general exuberance of the film experience itself, epitomized by that memorable Falcon sequence. That's what it always makes me think of and why I like its inclusion in the suite. It's about calling back to the fun, good-natured spirit of the earlier parts of the film. 

 

ETA I checked the film again and yeah, to me the Rathtar statement really is about emphasizing Rey and Finn together on the move, obvious callback to the Jakku sequence. I don't think the Falcon thing is as convincing and I also don't feel like it's about Finn any more than Rey. Possibly it would lean to Finn if you counted how often it synced up with individual shots of him lol, but I think it's really just about these two together on their new escapades (there's that CMIYC reference ) so I think it's most accurate to call it a shared Rey/Finn motif, separate from her personal theme. I might say there are shades of it as well in the rapid string figures as they're hiding from Han/Chewie and trying to release the gas, and as crumbs said, the unused statement for the two of them in the vents.

 

But now I want to know if Williams also wrote some fucking badass unused versions for Finn's battles with the Stormtrooper and Kylo Ren. Then I'd totally give it to him!

[Marcus 390]

17 hours ago, ymenard said:

Give Gia a full year to write (and rewrite) the score like Johnny was able to do last year without any other assignment and it would be quite something.

 

Perhaps somewhat strangely, this isn't how it works. 

 

I've often pondered about this in my own work, as well as in the work of my colleagues, and the time invested and the quality of the piece in question simply do not correlate.

Some of the greatest works of all time were written very quickly, while lesser works by the same composers were the fruits of years of laborious effort. 

 

True, there are certain pieces that simply require more time to manifest themselves in terms of ink and pages, due to the amount and complexity of information. 

But by and large, the only correlation between time spent writing and the quality of writing, is on a more global scale of the individual writer's experience in terms of craftsmanship. 

 

Obviously, having lots of time to invest in a work is always a luxury, as it does allow you to take a step back from time to time and look at things from a bird's eye perspective, and theoretically, it offers the chance to spend more hours exploring your material. 

 

What tends to happen when we write under pressure (assuming we're experienced enough to be able to do so), is that craft takes over; choices we'd otherwise mull over and endlessly scrutinize, are made almost instinctively. What we tend to reveal, is the basics of our aesthetic practice, our private clichés, if you like. 

But surprisingly often, sheer panic opens the gate to a kind of "core energy" that may lead us to make daring and inspired choices, despite the circumstances (other composers will know what I'm talking about). 

 

My point is that the quality of your writing is primarily contingent on your talent and technique, no matter what schedule you're on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I don't think I'd see it as a "random" action theme in that case. The Falcon chase is one of the defining set pieces of the movie!

 

Exactly. If JW had decided to put a bit of Asteroid Field in the end credits suite of ESB, I don't think anybody would've thought it was weird.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Wouldn't mind some samples but looks like I'll be going into the film with no knowledge of the music. 

[Incanus 5,715]

9 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Wouldn't mind some samples but looks like I'll be going into the film with no knowledge of the music. 

Isn't that sort of great in this day and age? It happened to me with TFA and I think the experience was all the better for it.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,894]

I agree. I'm looking forward to the surprise, whether its good or bad.

[Alex 2,835]

54 minutes ago, Manikin Skywalker said:

I agree. I'm looking forward to the surprise, whether its good or bad.

 

Your picture both fascinates and frightens me at the same time

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[leeallen01 2,136]

What is the action music like? The bits that aren't any specific thematic action, just general action moments?

 

 

Seeing it in 22 hours. Must....not...look...at...'reveal hidden contents'...button

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SilverTrumpet 638]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

As far as I can remember, most of the time the action music isn't thematically-driven. When we do get themes in action sequences, it's generally the Rebel Fanfare that is used. I don't remember Giacchino's own themes being used in an action setting (maybe Jyn's theme once), but I'm not 100% certain of that. It's hard to pay attention to both the music and what's going on screen during action sequences where a lot of things happen.

 

I guess you could say Krennic's theme and Giacchino's Imperial theme are given action-like statements (even if not necessarily during action scenes).

 

Didja like the movie though?

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 hours ago, Incanus said:

Isn't that sort of great in this day and age? It happened to me with TFA and I think the experience was all the better for it.

 

Am now seeing the movie at 7 tonight (5 hours) so this will definitely be the case. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

2 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

Didja like the movie though?

 

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

Just came back from watching the film.

 

Liked it overall, even though it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Some things didn't sit right with me...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hated the CGI Tarkin and Leia. That was awful.

 

some of the dialogue is a bit clunky, I wish there had been more character development, and the very end feels EXTREMELY rushed but on the whole, it's a satisfying enough experience (it may be a bit more flawed compared to TFA, but at the same time, it tries to offer more new and interesting things compared to that film, so that's a plus).

 

[TownerFan 4,983]

5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

As far as I can remember, most of the time the action music isn't thematically-driven. When we do get themes in action sequences, it's generally the Rebel Fanfare that is used. I don't remember Giacchino's own themes being used in an action setting (maybe Jyn's theme once), but I'm not 100% certain of that.

 

So nothing like this:

 

 

or this?

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Nothing like that, I'm afraid.

[ymenard 54]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

- That being said, it's definitely the most Williams-sounding Djiatchino score so far.

 

More, say, than Medal of Honor or Secret Weapons over Normandy?

7 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

So nothing like this:

 

 

or this?

 

 

 

I guess this era of Giacchino is over will never come back again.  Perhaps that since it happened so early in his career, it was just a rush of artistic liberation especially if you consider he wasn't constrain on tracking anything in these early video games (no click track or intense spotting).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Well, the Medal Of Honor scores don't really sound like Williams to me (the only real similarity they share with the composer is the big bombastic sound, I'd say)

 

Imho, there's more Williams than anything or anyone else in those scores, especially the first two (the scherzo cue above is very Last Crusade-like). But it was deliberately done on purpose by Giacchino, who was channeling his hero at least in some of his mannerisms. That being said, I wouldn't expect Giacchino to write today as he was writing almost 20 years ago.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Well, in any case, if you're looking for his Medal Of Honor sound, you're not gonna get it here (at least not to such an extent)!

[Jay 37,364]

Super 8 and Tomorrowland are his most Williams-sounding scores.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,364]

To be perfectly frank, I don't think any of Giacchino's works really sound all that much WIlliams like at all, honestly.

 

Desplat, however, nailed the Williams sound with Monuments Men.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

8 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Yes, exactly. That's why I never got the whole "Giacchino is the next John Williams" thing, because Giacchino never sounded like him to me to begin with!

 

And yes, Desplat's style sounds much more like Williams'. Monuments Men is a prime example of that, though there are others too.

 

I always thought Sky Battle front DH1 sounded like Williams. Not as good as Williams but in the right track. 

[saulocf 79]

Yeah, because Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows were such great scores and so much like Williams that had so many natural thematic expressions. 

Really guys, the villain thematic material in Jupiter Ascending, the Super 8 finale and the first Medal of Honor is so vintage Williams, much more than the HP Desplat score, that I think is what we would have gotten in Rogue One.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I don't think we would have had HP Desplat at all, to be honest (HP Desplat isn't even representative of Desplat's true style anyway).

[Jay 37,364]

4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

HP Desplat isn't even representative of Desplat's true style anyway.

 

Indeed

[leeallen01 2,136]

Sky battle is my favourite piece from Desplat's HP stuff. Simply because it can regularly fool me enough to believe Williams did them all.

[Tom 4,658]

23 hours ago, ymenard said:

Give Gia a full year to write (and rewrite) the score like Johnny was able to do last year without any other assignment and it would be quite something.

This is an apples/oranges comparison.  When Williams was Gia's age, he composed the vast majority of his scores in 6-8 weeks, and the same for Horner, Goldsmith, etc. 

 

Do any of us really think ESB, ET, RotLA, etc. would be better if Williams had had a full year to work on them? 

[saulocf 79]

23 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I don't think we would have had HP Desplat at all, to be honest (HP Desplat isn't even representative of Desplat's true style anyway).

While I agree regarding not being representative of Desplat's style, I meant regarding to ignoring the franchise's sound and coming up with something new. For that, I would rather have a Giacchino trying hard to be Williams than a Desplat being Desplat and ignoring the franchise's musical sound. If that is the reason he was replaced, it was a good one IMO

14 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Sky battle is my favourite piece from Desplat's HP stuff. Simply because it can regularly fool me enough to believe Williams did them all.

Really? I like the opening Obliviate, and other than the good Hedwigs theme quote, I find the track regular Desplat in a Golden Compass-lite mode. Don't care much for that cue

[leeallen01 2,136]

I think the rule that should be used is; if you're a great composer, you can create brilliance in 5 months or 5 weeks. If you're not a great composer, you can't create brilliance, however long you have.

11 minutes ago, saulocf said:

Really? I like the opening Obliviate, and other than the good Hedwigs theme quote, I find the track regular Desplat in a Golden Compass-lite mode. Don't care much for that cue

 

I'm a big fan of all of Desplat's Potter work for both films. Some really great stuff in there. But Sky Battle reminds me (close enough) of what Williams would have done, had he stayed on.

[Jay 37,364]

Official music credits, per the film's end credits!!

 

Music by Michael Giacchino

Score Produced by Michael Giacchino

Music Editors Stephen M. Davis, MPSE • Warren Brown MPSE

Music Score Preparation Booker White

Orchestra Contractor Reggie Wilson

Score Coordinator Jeff Kryka

Vocal Contractor Bobbi Page

Assistant to Mr. Giacchino David Coker

Score Conducted by Tim Simonec

Orchestrations by William Ross • Brad Dechter • Tim Simonec • Jeff Kryka • Chris Tilton • Herbert W. Spencer

Scoring & Mixing Engineers Peter Cobbin • Joel Iwataki

Score Recordist Vincent Cirilli

Scoring Stage Engineer Greg Loskorn

Scoring Stage Crew Greg Dennen • Dave Marquette • Adam Michalak

Music Recorded at Sony Scoring Stage, Culver City, CA

Music Mixed at Eastwood Scoring Stage, Warner Bros., CA

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Not surprising it took an army of orchestrators with the time crunch.

[MikeH 768]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Orchestrations by William Ross • Brad Dechter • Tim Simonec • Jeff Kryka • Chris Tilton • Herbert W. Spencer

 

CGI Herb Spencer. 

[Jay 37,364]

He must have received a credit for orchestrating the original end credits or something?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

He must have received a credit for orchestrating the original end credits or something?

 

But he doesn't get credited in the main saga entries, does he?

 

Unless it's a technical thing where they literally used Spencer's sheet music from 1977, whereas Williams "re-orchestrates" the end credits each time. Sorry if I'm using non-expert terminology because, well, I'm not an expert.

[Jay 37,364]

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

But he doesn't get credited in the main saga entries, does he?

 

Yes, he does.

 

Quote

Unless it's a technical thing where they literally used Spencer's sheet music from 1977, whereas Williams "re-orchestrates" the end credits each time. Sorry if I'm using non-expert terminology because, well, I'm not an expert.

 

I think the original score contains music orchestrated by Herb Spencer, hence the credit.

 

Of course we know Williams details his sketches so well it doesn't really matter who did the orchestrations, but that's not really relevant for credits like these.