The Last Jedi THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)

[Jay 39,428]

50 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

19 Peace And Purpose (3:08)

• 1.44-end = 9M86 Old Friends 

 

20 Finale (8:28)

• 0.00-0.36 = 9M86 Old Friends 

 

Is this the first time JW split a single composition across multiple tracks for an OST?

 

Or maybe they broke this in two on the recording stage?

[crumbs 14,869]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Is this the first time JW split a single composition across multiple tracks for an OST?

 

Or maybe they broke this in two on the recording stage?

 

And what happened to Finale Part. II?

[Jay 39,428]

I assume that's 9M86 and it just goes by two names

[Edmilson 8,919]

Why some scenes at the Ahch-To island and the fathiers chase action scene are under reel 0? 

 

I imagine that when Williams scored the movie they didn't know exactly when those scenes would take place during the movie, so they were just there on "reel 0" awaiting the final cut of the movie.

[crumbs 14,869]

18 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Why some scenes at the Ahch-To island and the fathiers chase action scene are under reel 0? 

 

I imagine that when Williams scored the movie they didn't know exactly when those scenes would take place during the movie, so they were just there on "reel 0" awaiting the final cut of the movie.

 

That's the theory. They probably had those sequences edited but didn't know which reel they belonged to when JW scored them. I don't have the scoring dates but they might be the first cues JW wrote in late 2016.

 

Rian Johnson said originally the film intercut between the various story threads more regularly than the final cut (which stays with each storyline for longer stretches).

[bollemanneke 3,593]

I feel like a real idiot only discovering this now and you guys have probably dsicussed this to death already, but... is it me, or does TLJ sound much better than both TROS and TFA? I feel like the orchestra has more space and that the instruments have much more room to breathe? Whereas TFA and TROS is all about LOUD BRASS AND EVEN MORE LOUD BRASS!!!!!!! Or is that just because TLJ has so many calm cues?

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Well everything you said is true, for me simple because it is the best SW score. It sounds fantastic!! 

[blondheim 1,160]

I think it sounds the best as well. It is especially noticeable in Escape.

[BrotherSound 2,295]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:42 PM, crumbs said:

That's the theory. They probably had those sequences edited but didn't know which reel they belonged to when JW scored them. I don't have the scoring dates but they might be the first cues JW wrote in late 2016.

 

Rian Johnson said originally the film intercut between the various story threads more regularly than the final cut (which stays with each storyline for longer stretches).

@Edmilson
 

Yep, all the Reel 0 cues date from November or December 2016, so most likely while the scenes themselves were considered locked enough to score, the score ordering was still up in the air. Presumably the four Fathiers chase cues were ultimately assigned 4M39, 5M40, 5M41, and 5M42.

 

One weird fluke in the cue list (pointed out by @Datameister): I can’t think of any possible way 2M19 Rose Catches Finn would ever make sense before 3M21 Rose Appears! And indeed, in the film 3M21 is used before 2M19.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

Could it be a case of the cut of everything before that point was longer when it was scored? So while it was technically in the same placement chronologically, it was in a later reel?

[The Train Station 8,674]

TROS has the best DR rating. TLJ has the worst.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

So TLJ is darker and louder, TROS is brighter and quieter!

[Not Mr. Big 4,739]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I feel like a real idiot only discovering this now and you guys have probably dsicussed this to death already, but... is it me, or does TLJ sound much better than both TROS and TFA? I feel like the orchestra has more space and that the instruments have much more room to breathe? Whereas TFA and TROS is all about LOUD BRASS AND EVEN MORE LOUD BRASS!!!!!!! Or is that just because TLJ has so many calm cues?

It sounds better than TFA but TROS is still the best sounding score to me. 

TLJ can lean towards the overly stuffy side (as opposed to TFA's harsher sound).  And there's also the overly quiet mixing of the choir in the final tracks.

[crumbs 14,869]

Yeah I do wish the choir was mixed louder in those final cues, but otherwise I still prefer TLJ to both TFA and TROS. Whatever Murphy changed with the recording setup, he got fantastic results on this score -- as close to the Abbey Road 4 as one can get at Sony in LA.

 

Though TROS is still miles nicer to listen to than TFA, due to the dry harshness of the latter (I really dislike that overtly bright mastering on the TFA OST too).

[artguy360 1,899]

TLJ is mixed far better than the extra dry, brass focused, condensed sound mix of TFA. TLJ breathes a lot more. But I have no issue with how TROS is mixed. It sounds full, deep, and wet.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

I don't really have a problem with the choir mixing, some bits of the FOTR CR, and most of DOS are much worse!

[crumbs 14,869]

Has anyone picked up on this nugget of The Rebellion is Reborn hidden in Fun With Finn and Rose?

 

Descending on strings:

 

First on flute, then clarinet, then oboe (I think).

 

That sequence of notes seems to be interpolated all throughout the concert suite, actually, in various guises and different progressions (some positive and upwards, others downward).

[Smeltington 1,569]

Great job spotting this. I guess it's a coincidence, though? In the first track it's part of March of the Resistance material, and scores a scene with Rose, but in the second track it's part of the Luke in exile theme. And it's based on an actual phrase of the Luke theme, so it's hard to argue that it's part of the material for Rose.

[crumbs 14,869]

It's an intriguing usage, could certainly be a coincidence (or just happened to be on JW's mind when he wrote that section of counterpoint).

 

Then again, The Rebellion is Reborn has Rose and Luke material interwined throughout, so maybe JW associates that little progression more with Rose than Luke?

[Smeltington 1,569]

5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

(or just happened to be looping through JW's mind when he wrote that section of counterpoint)

 

That seems likely. He does tend to get enamored with certain musical ideas and use them across a single franchise (see my essay about how many HP themes are based on either Hedwig or Nimbus), or across multiple scores of the same era (the similar phrase in Across the Stars and CMIYC, for example).

 

7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

maybe JW associates that little progression more with Rose than Luke?

 

It seems doubtful, because the phrase you highlighted in the YouTube clip of Rebellion is Reborn follows directly after a phrase of the Luke theme, and seems to be a repetition and simplification of that phrase.

[bespinGPT 8,767]

Sorry to bump... Finally, the score of the Finale, as its been wrote on the paper... it includes or not the Yoda's Theme part?

[BrotherSound 2,295]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Sorry to bump... Finally, the score of the Finale, as its been wrote on the paper... it includes or not the Yoda's Theme part?

Yes, that Yoda’s theme section is the last part of End Credit (5/15/17) Part 3 Rev.

[bespinGPT 8,767]

Ok, so it's not just an edit, a version really exist on paper with the Yoda's Theme...

 

That's worse than I thought.

[Tom 5,137]

A very good performance of Rebellion Reborn, a piece that continues to rank very high for me on occasion of the Vienna performance. 

 

 

[crumbs 14,869]

Fantastic performance! Powerful crescendo at the end.

 

That's also the first time I've heard the revised ending and understood what JW was trying to achieve. Every other concert performance I've seen with that new ending has felt awkward to me, as if the orchestra has timing or sync issues.

[artguy360 1,899]

I like the brass performance of the Luke in Exile stuff in this. Almost staccato, with more of a marching feel. The ending is fantastic! So much energy and without that odd hitch in it since the revision.

 

Even though I like The Rebellion is Reborn quite a lot as a piece of music, it has always felt like a minor, inconsequential piece despite being the major new thematic additions to Star Wars music at that time. I guess the Rose and Luke in Exile themes just don't really contribute much to either the movie or the score.

[Smeltington 1,569]

Maybe the unusual approach of merging two themes that don't have much in common contributes to that feeling. You can't help getting the impression that either Williams didn't think each of the themes was substantial enough to stand on its own, or he didn't have time to write more than one theme suite.

[Taikomochi 1,222]

I think Rose’s theme is terrific and has a great narrative arc across the film and score, culminating in that beautifully tragic statement that opens the FYC version of “The Spark”. It’s as substantial as any of the sequel themes, except Rey and the Resistance. Can’t really defend Luke’s material, though. It’s distinctive but used far too sparsely.

[igger6 950]

Bad ideas make for bad themes.

 

By the way, why no fathiers in the end title suite?

[artguy360 1,899]

48 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

Maybe the unusual approach of merging two themes that don't have much in common contributes to that feeling. You can't help getting the impression that either Williams didn't think each of the themes was substantial enough to stand on its own, or he didn't have time to write more than one theme suite.

I could definitely see the merging of two unrelated themes as off-putting, but I've never felt that way myself. I love how the two themes work against each other.

 

I think my hang up is more about how undeveloped both themes are in the score. One disappears completely, and the other just doesn't get the workout I expected. They are both just minor themes in the Star Wars tapestry.

[Tom 5,137]

Part of why I like it so much is that is feels different from other SW concert pieces.  It connects well to the established sound of the SW universe but goes it a different, almost truly classical direction.  But, yes, the Fathiers deserves a concert edition, inclusive the spellbindingly perfect statement of Rose's theme within it.  

[Taikomochi 1,222]

Exactly! That statement of Rose’s theme is so sublime, I could never think of it as a minor theme. One of the best thematic variations in all nine scores

[artguy360 1,899]

On 25/02/2022 at 4:59 PM, Tom said:

A very good performance of Rebellion Reborn, a piece that continues to rank very high for me on occasion of the Vienna performance. 

 

 

This is now my favorite live performance of The Rebellion is Reborn. 

[MikeH 787]

I absolutely love the first 30 seconds of “The Fathiers” cue and wish JW had conceived that piece around those motifs rather than abandon it and mickey-mouse the action like he did. It’s quite catchy. 

[Jay 39,428]

what a random but timely bump for me, I listened to my new copy of the OST album today (I finally got the jewel case version) and quite enjoyed it!  I hadn't listened to any version of the score in a while.  That Fathiers track is good, yea, and I also really like A New Alliance and Chrome Dome

[artguy360 1,899]

I so wish there was a track on the album that nearly stitched together all the instances of the Holdo's Resolve motif. Is there another name for this set-piece theme? I love the softer but still forceful version that plays when she and Leia say goodbye. Then it's use when Holdo does what she does. Then again in Chrome Dome. I think, edited well together, it could make for a killer mid-album action piece.

[Datameister 2,279]

11 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I so wish there was a track on the album that nearly stitched together all the instances of the Holdo's Resolve motif. Is there another name for this set-piece theme? I love the softer but still forceful version that plays when she and Leia say goodbye. Then it's use when Holdo does what she does. Then again in Chrome Dome. I think, edited well together, it could make for a killer mid-album action piece.

 

I think of it as the sacrifice theme. Legend speaks of an alternate passage for Luke's death that features the theme as well.

[Marc 822]

Fun stuff 
 

 

[Joe Brausam 218]

From the recording sessions, though I'm unsure of how to share a video that's posted on Facebook.  It's the Main Title.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HornPeople/permalink/6133731453324270/

 

[Jay 39,428]

Looks like that's a private group, so nobody can see the video unless they're invited into the group

[Joe Brausam 218]

Well that's a shame!  It's a video recording of the main titles from the sessions maybe this one will work:

https://www.facebook.com/766174664/videos/527331502678678/

[Jay 39,428]

Yes, that link works, and it is a re-share of the video that Rian Johnson posted to twitter and vimeo on January 23rd of 2018

 

The tweet is gone now, but this is the vimeo link: https://vimeo.com/252417024

 

It's been discussed on JWFan before here and here

[Marc 822]

FUN 
 

 

[Jay 39,428]

Nice video!  I always liked this cue, but boy, I forgot how goofy the film scene is, yikes

[Marc 822]

The scene is what it is ^^
But the music is great 

[80sFan 111]

I like this too. The music is great (I'm a brass person so particularly like this arrangement) but I have to agree on the quality of the scene...

[Brónach 1,306]

all star wars movies should have been written to have bars/clubs with source music

[Not Mr. Big 4,739]

It's a good scene!  I love the shot of the boob singer 

[Romão 2,319]

Last Jedi is such an uneven movie. It's some of absolute favorite scenes in the whole saga. But then you get stuff like this.

 

The performance is fantastic, though, of a really great cue.

[GerateWohl 5,040]

7 hours ago, Marc said:

The scene is what it is ^^
But the music is great 

This.

 

When I saw this for the first time I thought, wow, what an effort of settings, equipment, costumes, extras, special fx etc., this must have been really expensive. And nothing we see is somehow exciting, entertaining or interesting or whatever. Probably partly because despite all the effort it doesn't look more real like the skiing scene in Hitchcock's Spellbound. The only good thing about it is the music, really.