Return of the Jedi at 40

[Tallguy 3,402]

Here we are in 2023, forty years after Return of the Jedi.

 

There have been a couple of threads that have addressed its status as the "lesser" score of the Original Trilogy. Which is certainly true. But as I noted elsewhere that's like being the ugliest Hemsworth.

 

To begin with it's got Luke and Leia which is the prettiest theme in the Star Wars films. (Princess Leia's theme, you know I adore you.) An oddly powerful theme given that it's used so briefly in the film.

 

It has the freaking Emperor's theme. i.e. the theme that Williams has never shied away from in any future iteration of Star Wars, while it felt like someone held a gun to his head to get him to use Yoda's theme again. And he builds it brick by evil brick in every scene that the Emperor is in.

 

Even The Parade of the Ewoks is pretty good. Although the music probably sees them as cuter than the film actually does. This doesn't sound like little fur balls who want to eat you and hang your hat on a spike and use it for a drum.

The opening Approaching the Death Star is a delicious re-entry into Star Wars. It plays with the audiences familiarity with the Imperial March for a minute or two to foreshadow who is on the shuttle. This film has a lot more fun re-introducing Our Heroes (and Villain) one at a time than Empire did.

 

And as people have noted on other threads, it introduces the Into the Trap motif. What is it? Is it the new Death Star? It's a wonderful tune at any rate. Into the Trap is the TIE Fighter Attack / Asteroid Field of Return of the Jedi.

 

One of the biggest things to appreciate on the 20th anniversary CD is the inclusion of all of the Jabba the Hutt music. It's another theme that Williams plays around with variations of. It gets played in some delightfully light and delicate ways that aren't on the OST or the Arista.

 

There are a lot of "little" moments that weren't on the OST or the Arista expansion like the cut to the Rebel Fleet or the Briefing. These are the little things that Williams tosses off when he's not trying too hard. And they're wonderful.

 

I love the sail barge battle (Return of the Jedi) and I'm not fan of the original take. But it does feel like a suddenly nostalgic look backward to only two films before.

 

I think the times that it's an echo of Star Wars hurt the reputation of this score. Empire certainly built on the themes and motifs from Star Wars but it did it in such a dramatic leap forward. At the time I was expecting the same sort of thing and as good as the score is, it just doesn't happen here. The sail barge is also such a bright cue (as is a lot of the battle music, especially the concert arrangement of Forrest Battle) which is a slight change in tone from the previous films. I'm not saying the battle music in Star Wars and Empire were grim and dour, they weren't. But the tone overall gives the game away for the whole film. "Nothing to worry about here! We're all having a good time and we're going to win everything!" (At the end of Empire I don't think anyone thought that they were going to try and wrap everything up in one more film.)

 

I'd complain about the lack of development of Han Solo and the Princess, but I might also complain about the film's lack of development of Han Solo and the Princess.

 

I've always wanted to put together what should have been the 2 LP OST that we got in 1983 but I've never had the gift for contextual gymnastics that made the first two LPs so special. (Or drove you nuts because of the chronological jumps the album would make, depending on your temperament.) When I think about how much I dislike the concert arrangements of The Asteroid Field and Here They Come I shudder to think of the possibility of those being included on the LPs of Star Wars and Empire rather than their film counterparts. That's kind of how I feel about The Forrest Battle being used here.

 

Happy Birthday, Return of the Jedi. We might not appreciate you as much as we should.

[Jay 37,374]

You know what this made me think of?

 

That Star Wars' 40th, then Empire's 40th, then Star Wars' 45th, and now ROTJ's 40th all went by without Disney Records commissioning complete score releases of the OT

[Tallguy 3,402]

16 minutes ago, Jay said:

You know what this made me think of?

 

That Star Wars' 40th, then Empire's 40th, then Star Wars' 45th, and now ROTJ's 40th all went by without Disney Records commissioning complete score releases of the OT

 

They've been waiting for this. It's this year. Guaranteed.

 

(Hey, look at my sig!)

[Bespin 8,484]

I think they all wait for my 50th in 2024, that's nice of them!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Er... @Tallguy, you do know that RETURN OF THE JEDI was released on May 25th, and not on February 10th 

Just saying 

[GerateWohl 4,373]

Of course I was happy and excited when the RotJ OST came out. And yes, I was disappointed, that it was a single LP. And in addition, because the album was so short, I was disappointed by the big amount of old music. Sail barge assault with 90% music from Star Wars, and so much Imperial March. And I didn't particularly like the comedy tone in The Forrest Battle. But I loved Yup-Nup from the start.

[enderdrag64 624]

46 minutes ago, Jay said:

You know what this made me think of?

 

That Star Wars' 40th, then Empire's 40th, then Star Wars' 45th, and now ROTJ's 40th all went by without Disney Records commissioning complete score releases of the OT

Hey it technically isn't May 25th yet! There's still hope! (There's still hope, right?)

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

They're obviously waiting for the 50th anniversary.

[enderdrag64 624]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

Here we are in 2023, forty years after Return of the Jedi.

 

There have been a couple of threads that have addressed its status as the "lesser" score of the Original Trilogy. Which is certainly true. But as I noted elsewhere that's like being the ugliest Hemsworth.

 

To begin with it's got Luke and Leia which is the prettiest theme in the Star Wars films. (Princess Leia's theme, you know I adore you.) An oddly powerful theme given that it's used so briefly in the film.

 

It has the freaking Emperor's theme. i.e. the theme that Williams has never shied away from in any future iteration of Star Wars, while it felt like someone held a gun to his head to get him to use Yoda's theme again. And he builds it brick by evil brick in every scene that the Emperor is in.

 

Even The Parade of the Ewoks is pretty good. Although the music probably sees them as cuter than the film actually does. This doesn't sound like little fur balls who want to eat you and hang your hat on a spike and use it for a drum.

The opening Approaching the Death Star is a delicious re-entry into Star Wars. It plays with the audiences familiarity with the Imperial March for a minute or two to foreshadow who is on the shuttle. This film has a lot more fun re-introducing Our Heroes (and Villain) one at a time than Empire did.

 

And as people have noted on other threads, it introduces the Into the Trap motif. What is it? Is it the new Death Star? It's a wonderful tune at any rate. Into the Trap is the TIE Fighter Attack / Asteroid Field of Return of the Jedi.

 

One of the biggest things to appreciate on the 20th anniversary CD is the inclusion of all of the Jabba the Hutt music. It's another theme that Williams plays around with variations of. It gets played in some delightfully light and delicate ways that aren't on the OST or the Arista.

 

There are a lot of "little" moments that weren't on the OST or the Arista expansion like the cut to the Rebel Fleet or the Briefing. These are the little things that Williams tosses off when he's not trying too hard. And they're wonderful.

 

I love the sail barge battle (Return of the Jedi) and I'm not fan of the original take. But it does feel like a suddenly nostalgic look backward to only two films before.

 

I think the times that it's an echo of Star Wars hurt the reputation of this score. Empire certainly built on the themes and motifs from Star Wars but it did it in such a dramatic leap forward. At the time I was expecting the same sort of thing and as good as the score is, it just doesn't happen here. The sail barge is also such a bright cue (as is a lot of the battle music, especially the concert arrangement of Forrest Battle) which is a slight change in tone from the previous films. I'm not saying the battle music in Star Wars and Empire were grim and dour, they weren't. But the tone overall gives the game away for the whole film. "Nothing to worry about here! We're all having a good time and we're going to win everything!" (At the end of Empire I don't think anyone thought that they were going to try and wrap everything up in one more film.)

 

I'd complain about the lack of development of Han Solo and the Princess, but I might also complain about the film's lack of development of Han Solo and the Princess.

 

I've always wanted to put together what should have been the 2 LP OST that we got in 1983 but I've never had the gift for contextual gymnastics that made the first two LPs so special. (Or drove you nuts because of the chronological jumps the album would make, depending on your temperament.) When I think about how much I dislike the concert arrangements of The Asteroid Field and Here They Come I shudder to think of the possibility of those being included on the LPs of Star Wars and Empire rather than their film counterparts. That's kind of how I feel about The Forrest Battle being used here.

 

Happy Birthday, Return of the Jedi. We might not appreciate you as much as we should.

While I don't think all of the action cues in Jedi are as memorable as in the previous films, I do quite like Into the Trap. 

 

That said, I think a lot of my favorite music in Return of the Jedi is the quieter stuff: Yoda's Scene, Battle Plans, Vader Stalks Luke, The Emperor's Death, Vader's Death, Leia Breaks the News and its replacement inserts

 

Yoda's Scene and Battle Plans might even be my two favorite cues in the movie.

 

I do also really like the sail barge source cue, I wish it wasn't lost - even if there are some very high quality preservations of it on youtube

[crumbs 14,319]

Don't worry everyone – the 50th anniversary of Star Wars is only 4 years away!

 

Which means in 5 years we can still complain about Disney Records doing nothing about Star Wars expansions!

[artguy360 1,844]

ROTJ is a very good score and a very appropriate score for the movie. The action music is brighter and more fun because that is the tone of the film. 

[Tallguy 3,402]

45 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

and so much Imperial March.

 

Two tracks, right? The Story Continues and Into the Trap?

 

43 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Er... @Tallguy, you do know that RETURN OF THE JEDI was released on May 25th, and not on February 10th 

Just saying 

 

One needs an entire year to celebrate an OT Star Wars film. We'll just ramp it up on May 25th. (And the recording sessions were in January and February.)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Good call, my young padawan!

[Tallguy 3,402]

1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Good call, my young padawan!

 

It's always better to be lucky than good.

[Faleel 5,360]

The Levitation might be my favorite cue from Jedi:

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

It's good, but from BROTHER/SISTER FATHER/SON onwards, it's frackin' awesome!!!

[Thor 7,521]

Traditionally, I've put this as my second favourite score of all time (after JURASSIC PARK). These days, I'm not sure it quite holds that position, since my preferences have veered elsewhere over the last decade and a half or so. But damn, it's still a bloody brilliant score that is safely secured in my top 10 regardless, and also my sole representative of STAR WARS music in said list.

 

It plays brilliantly around with all that came before, but has its own set of wonderful setpieces.

 

I was about 6 years old when the film came out, so I have no memories of experiencing it at the time of release. My first exposure was on a taped VHS some 5-6 years later. The music, I didn't acquire until 12 years later.

[Tallguy 3,402]

Good heavens! I can't believe I didn't mention Final Duel! My original Grail! (OK, maybe Journey to Nepal was.)

 

IIRC from 30 years ago I saw an ad for the Arista Star Wars Anthology in a magazine. I dropped everything and drove to the music store. They had it! I went from not knowing anything about this box to having it at home and playing it in less than 30 minutes. Truly one of the greatest musical moments of my life.

 

The VERY FIRST THING I played was Final Duel. As much great music that is on that set I think the only thing from Jedi that I knew I wanted was that. (I didn't even think about the film version of Funeral Pyre for a Jedi. And I figured I had Darth Vader's Death from the Utah Symphony.)

 

It's one of the most perfect marriages of music and picture. Both are powerful on their own. It's not one of those scenes where you take away the music and all of the meaning and excitement go away. But put them together and it's the one of the high points of the film.

 

Going back to Arista, Jedi is such a towering, sprawling score that the Anthology doesn't quite do it justice. If that was all we got for Star Wars or even Empire, it would have been enough. The rest could be called "nice to have" or "for the completest". (I'm SO glad we got more.) But there were, IMHO, necessary moments missing from Jedi.

 

24 minutes ago, Thor said:

and also my sole representative of STAR WARS music in said list.

 

That's... That's astonishing.

[Thor 7,521]

5 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

That's... That's astonishing.

 

He, he, perhaps. Doesn't mean that I dislike the other two in the OT (I adore them), but 3 JWs in my top 10 was enough (the others are JURASSIC PARK, as previously mentioned, and JANE EYRE). But ROTJ seems to have the essence of the preceding scores while offering new pieces that are more up my alley. It's like a 'best of' with new pieces that are on the same level. You mentioned "Final Duel"....those few seconds of goosebump-inducing male chorus in religioso mode are probably my favourite bit of music in all of STAR WARS, ever.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

I'm the perfect age for Jedi. Being 35, it's old enough where I was never around for the people that didn't like aspects of it, but I'm old enough where I have the usual distaste for the prequels. That age specifically I think makes ROTJ my sweet spot Star Wars movie. Everything from Luke being cool, the Emperor, Final Duel giving me the shivers every time.

 

I usually tell people that Empire is the best Star Wars movie, but Jedi is my favorite. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

16 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

I'm the perfect age for Jedi. Being 35

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

50 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

I usually tell people that Empire is the best Star Wars movie, but Jedi is my favorite. 

Exactly my thoughts!

Over the years ROTJ has become my favourite Star Wars film, and score. Not as rowdy, or as innocent and STAR WARS, and not as cynical as THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. It fits in the middle, and is the perfect finish to a magnificent trilogy.

I saw it on June 4, 1983, at the Dominion Theatre, London, in 6-track magnetic, and 70mm. It was breathtaking. The POV shot when the camera comes out of the tunnel and into where the reactor is, made the entire audience gasp in astonishment.

[Stark 316]

This is definitely my favorite score (and film) of the original trilogy. The only problem with it is that Luke and Leia’s theme got more development in National Treasure 2.

[Chen G. 3,950]

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

(At the end of Empire I don't think anyone thought that they were going to try and wrap everything up in one more film.)

 

Really? To me it seems rather obvious, and certainly from looking into even Lucas' earliest notes for the third film its clear that there was never an actual version of Return of the Jedi that wasn't the end of the story.

 

Anyhow, to speak to the film's score, by sheer happenstance it emerged in a couple of discussions recently as a lesser-of, an opinion I certainly ascribe to, but nevertheless overemphasizing it can have the unfortunate side-effect of making one seem more critical of the score than one truly is.

 

Return of the Jedi, the film and the score, are very overtly resolutions to what had come before them, and I actually think they do so quite succesfully: inasmuch as cues like the revised "Sail Barge" rely very heavily on passages directly from the original film (as does the film's imagery, opening as it does with a shot that mimics the opening shot of the first film, and reusing much of its premise and locales), it does serve the purpose of creating a sense of "book-ends" to the trilogy, musically: this sense would of course lose something of its meaning in the larger scope of Williams' six-part and finally nine-part cycle, but nevertheless, I find it commendable.

 

At the same time, the score does push forward, both with material from the previous two scores (which it understandbly relies upon, being that its a summation) and new material unique to that score. James Buhler (in “Star Wars, Music, and Myth") says that, in the classic trilogy "Nothing actually happens musically in any of these scores. The themes simply remain the same" but that's not entirely true: it wasn't entirely true in the previous two scores, but its especially not true of Return of the Jedi, with its coup de génie "redemption" of Darth Vader's music at the end. Its not exactly Tristan, but its commendable nonetheless.

 

The big issue of the score, beside some of its saccharine undertones (especially but not exclusively around the Ewoks) is in the episodic structure forced on it by the film: Return of the Jedi is effective two films in one: a 35-minute short of a Pirate-themed serial about rescuing Han from Jabba, Episode 5.5, if you will; sandwiched into the beginning of a 90-minute feature, dealing with the final defeat of the Empire, Episode 6 proper. Marquand and Lucas almost make it work in the film as a bold structural choice, but not quite.

 

Musically, too, the Jabba sequence mostly has its own motives, but Williams does manage to link it to the larger structure: by mirroring some of his musical choices for "Sail Barge Assault" in the final attack on the Death Star, replete with the new, triumphant fanfare that extols both victories, he effectivelly turns the Jabba short into a microcosm (dare I say, overture?) for the piece as a whole. Nevertheless, the Jabba sequence does delay the introduction of some of the themes that will be important to the film's climax: the Ewok material, for one, but more significantly the themes associated with the Emperor and with Luke and Leia's siblinghood, the latter category including perhaps the finest melody of Williams' ouvre.

 

So yes, a lesser score, but nevertheless a worthy cap to the trilogy and, prior to 2015, to the sextet.

 

[Faleel 5,360]

Also the original sail barge also references a bit of the Forest battle IIRC.

[karelm 2,915]

On 10/02/2023 at 9:43 AM, Thor said:

Traditionally, I've put this as my second favourite score of all time (after JURASSIC PARK). These days, I'm not sure it quite holds that position, since my preferences have veered elsewhere over the last decade and a half or so. But damn, it's still a bloody brilliant score that is safely secured in my top 10 regardless, and also my sole representative of STAR WARS music in said list.

 

It plays brilliantly around with all that came before, but has its own set of wonderful setpieces.

 

I was about 6 years old when the film came out, so I have no memories of experiencing it at the time of release. My first exposure was on a taped VHS some 5-6 years later. The music, I didn't acquire until 12 years later.

 

I was 5 when ANH came out and vividly remember it.  The music was the first impression and I still remember that shattering Bb blast that came after complete silence.  I also remember the excitement of the original audience.  People were literally shushing each other to complete silence during "A long time ago..." then erupted to thunderous applause after that opening blast.  My mom wouldn't let me see it with my older brothers when it first opened fearing it was too intense for 5 year old me with space monsters, gun fights, and scary villains.  The whole family convinced her and we all saw it together maybe a week later.  I constantly had to hear how amazing it was and wait for what felt like a lifetime so see it.  It's all anyone at the playground was talking about and I felt like the only person on earth who hadn't yet seen it.  Ads were on tv constantly especially with cross promotional things such as "buy a burger, get a star wars cup" type of thing.  It did not disappoint. 

 

I think it was my first cinematic experience if not the first film I remember as a cinematic experience.  I was glued from the first frame till the last.  I thought there would never be another.  I don't think we had the concept of sequel at the time.  Clearly there were films like Godfather 2, but I think it predated me or was beyond my awareness.  Then maybe a year or so later, we heard there was a sequel.  I had the SW baseball cards and they started teasing concept art of the sequel.  It was so imaginative and evocative showing these strange new worlds yet unseen.  I had in my head an entire plot line based on those images that I would later learn were Ralph McQuarrie concept art.  It felt like we had to wait an eternity for ESB.  I was a much more mature 8 year old when it came out...a seasoned pro who knew everything about SW and was deeply obsessed with JW and his scores already.  The OST was released one week before the theatrical release, and I listened to it so many times before seeing the film.  Unusually, the movie opened on Wednesday, May 21, and of course I had to wait forever for the weekend to see it.  I so clearly remember the long line around the theater and the excitement from everyone. 

 

This was the biggest event of my life and I waited so, so long thinking this day would never happen.  Again, was immediately immersed and so invested in the story.  I remember thinking it was so overwhelmingly dark and emotional at the time and the father reveal was devastating as was what felt like Hans' death.  It was probably one of the darkest films I had yet seen if not the darkest.  The ending felt so anti-climactic in comparison to SW but also clearly had the sense of setting up another sequel.  I also remember the soundtrack being way, way more excellent than the OST.  Basically, the thrill of the Asteroid Field with the visuals was unlike anything I'd ever experienced.  The emotion of the carbon freeze and desperate tone of the last duel.... the strangeness of Dagobah and the romance of Han and Leia.  Everything was so amped up to 11 on the emotional scale.  Hearing the OST again, allowed me to revisit that experience but I immediately noticed so much of my favorite musical sequences were missing.  I tried so hard to find the Carbon Freeze sequence in the double LP but thought I heard it but eventually realized it was not released till the 1993 compilation.  A holy grail disc for me.  

 

I can't overstate how impactful this film and score were to me.  With ROTJ, similar memories but my eldest brothers were now in college so didn't have the family link the other films had.  I was now 11 and coolest was starting to get important.  I was already a collector of JW scores because if you grew up at that time, these were massive cultural hits (Jaws, Superman, CEOTTK, Raiders, E.T. whatever I forgot) so not only defined the film but my childhood and the most significant theatrical experiences.  I recall not thinking much of the ewok theme finding it a bit too "cute" for 11 year old me.  I was also surprised the land speeder chase was unscored because I thought it could benefit from "Here They Come!" and "Asteroid Belt" set piece treatment.  The magnificence of the score was the climactic duel with Vader and Luke where finally, after 6 years, a good guy momentarily defeats Vader.  That was a very cathartic moment.  The score was great but didn't achieve the heights of its predecessors.  Like @Tallguy pointed out, it's like saying it's the ugliest Hemsworth.

 

It's very nice to relive the experience I had as a kid of watching these films for the very first time with a packed audience and my family plus how significant these were to me in my youth.  Remember, we didn't have cable or VHS yet.  Maybe those came around at this same time, but you had to relive the film through the OST and your memories for years.  Here is a very crazy thought I just now realized.  2023 is the 40th anniversary of ROTJ.  But it is also the 100th anniversary of the discovery of other galaxies and the Big Bang Theory.  Etched on the photo plate dated October 6, 1923, one hundred years ago this year, astronomer Edwin Hubble photographed the Andromeda Nebula, a fuzzy object in the sky previously thought to be in our galaxy.  He identified this nebula had a cepheid variable (where he wrote in red "Var!" in the upper right of his photo plate).  Cepheid Variables are novas with a constant brightness and from measuring the known brightness against the observed brightness, astronomers can determine an object's distance.  We learned that the Andromeda Nebula was in fact a distant galaxy.  The first identified.  By the 1950's we identified hundreds of galaxies.  By the 1970's we knew there were millions.  Only 60 years after we learned there were galaxies, Star Wars took us to "a galaxy far, far away..."

 

 

By the way, I don't know if you fully get how large this object is in the sky.  Andromeda Galaxy is one of the brightest deep sky objects just barely visible with the unaided eye in a dark sky but if the entire galaxy were bright enough, it would be five to six times larger than the full moon in the night sky!  On the image on the left, the full moon would be about half the size of the image (roughly the bright core.  On the right, it would be maybe a quarter of the size of the picture.  

[Edmilson 7,473]

3 hours ago, karelm said:

But it is also the 100th anniversary of the discovery of other galaxies and the Big Bang Theory.

The Big Bang Theory started in started in 2007, not in 1923. 

 

[stravinsky 206]

For some reason I always thought the Bassline was reinforced by Tuba and ARP Synth at the very opening of the movie when Vader's shuttle mysteriously glides towards the new Death Star.

        However looking at the written music there is no Bass underpinning. Only Celli and Double Basses. Weird.

      "Approaching the Death Star" is a truly magical moment musically and all the more fascinating now since learning the "Trap" motif is first utilised in this cue. And this revelation after 40 years of listening to this music! 

[54dcwrcxwertx 11]

 

23 hours ago, Tallguy said:

To begin with it's got Luke and Leia which is the prettiest theme in the Star Wars films. (Princess Leia's theme, you know I adore you.) An oddly powerful theme given that it's used so briefly in the film.

 

Something like 10 years ago, when I didn't know Star Wars music that much, I heard this theme on my random 300+ pieces OST playlist, but didn't get to read the title on my player. I thought 'this is pretty nice melody, must be some main theme from one of the movies'. I searched through all title themes and couldn't find it. Some time later I discovered it was, in fact, some minor theme from episode VI lol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

So... now we know that there is a lot of love for RETURN OF THE JEDI, can we talk about the sound of it?

[BrotherSound 2,246]

38 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

So... now we know that there is a lot of love for RETURN OF THE JEDI, can we talk about the sound of it?

Well, basically it sounds great on the 1993 Arista Anthology, absolutely horrid on the 1997 special edition, great again on the recent OST reissue and some of the uh, recent “unofficial” versions. And sadly, a few bits may be lost forever: the complete Jabba the Hutt concert arrangement, the Ewok battle insert, and some source music.

[Faleel 5,360]

2 hours ago, stravinsky said:

For some reason I always thought the Bassline was reinforced by Tuba and ARP Synth at the very opening of the movie when Vader's shuttle mysteriously glides towards the new Death Star.

        However looking at the written music there is no Bass underpinning.

You can definitely hear synth on the 83 OST.

[Tallguy 3,402]

I feel simultaneously sad that the 97 Jedi CD sounds so terrible and happy that I can't hear it and am able to enjoy it.

 

I can only assume that the Definitive Mike Matessino Star Wars collection that will most likely be out this year will change my mind.

 

(Bazinga.)

[Andy 4,141]

3 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

Well, basically it sounds great on the 1993 Arista Anthology, absolutely horrid on the 1997 special edition, great again on the recent OST reissue and some of the uh, recent “unofficial” versions. And sadly, a few bits may be lost forever: the complete Jabba the Hutt concert arrangement, the Ewok battle insert, and some source music.

I’m not familiar with the battle insert.  Where is it in the film?

[Holko 9,532]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I’m not familiar with the battle insert.  Where is it in the film?

 

[Andy 4,141]

You guys have good ears. That’s fairly minor compared to the missing source music. 

[karelm 2,915]

11 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I feel simultaneously sad that the 97 Jedi CD sounds so terrible and happy that I can't hear it and am able to enjoy it.

 

I can only assume that the Definitive Mike Matessino Star Wars collection that will most likely be out this year will change my mind.

 

(Bazinga.)

It's not that it sounds terrible, it is very inconsistent.  Some are great, some are poor.  That's an ugly stepbrother of the Hemsworth that just doesn't fit in with the rest.  

[Datameister 2,044]

Nah, it sounds terrible throughout. Muffled and deadened. But only on the SE album. Clearly there was no issue with the recordings themselves.

 

I really do think ROTJ is an incredible score. It's surpassed by its predecessors purely because of their extraordinariness. It's no mark against it.

[Brando 1,864]

This came up in my Facebook feed tonight but it’s convenient you started this thread yesterday 

[rough cut 1,714]

Is Return Of The Jedi really that frowned upon? So many strong and memorable new themes and great arrangements of old ones.

 

I think it’s all ”Lapti Nek’s” fault.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

42 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Is Return Of The Jedi really that frowned upon? So many strong and memorable new themes and great arrangements of old ones.

Like the film, it's simply not as well regarded as the two that went before it.  It's a shame, but when it has to compete with STAR WARS and THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - two of the greatest examples of film scores... ever - then it's going to come in a poor third.

 

Ps, it's not  "Lapti Nek"'s fault.

[Andy 4,141]

I don’t think it’s spotted as well. 
 

I don’t think the action music is as melodic. 
 

I don’t think the reuse of themes from the first film wins it points for ingenuity. 
 

I don’t think it’s associated with a film that’s as innovative or fresh as the first two acts. 
 

I don’t think the new concert worthy themes are as hummable or catchy as the previous ones. 
 

I do however think it takes a wonderful bronze medal.  (Or silver if the first two are tied)

[Mattris 416]

On 10/02/2023 at 7:30 AM, Tallguy said:

I'm not saying the battle music in Star Wars and Empire were grim and dour, they weren't. But the tone overall gives the game away for the whole film. "Nothing to worry about here! We're all having a good time and we're going to win everything!" (At the end of Empire I don't think anyone thought that they were going to try and wrap everything up in one more film.)

 

Those who thought that were proven correct once the Saga continued with two additional trilogies and counting.

 

As soon as TESB was denoted as "Episode V" in its opening scroll, the Star Wars audience shouldn't have been that surprised by all the twists and turns to follow, many still yet to be realized and revealed.

 

ROTJ's overall tone may belie a harsh reality, one that permeates the Star Wars canon, including the marvelous scores. Perception of these foreshadowing clues necessitates a certain point of view.

 

Since this is a John Williams topic, any who wish to debate/discuss this further can respond to me in the other topic.

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Thanks for the offer, but no thanks.

[GerateWohl 4,373]

I said it before. When I saw Return of the Jedi the last time I thought, If now under Disney someone would make such a Star Wars movie with all these Muppet puppets including the song performance and the cute Ewoks, he or she would get killed by the fans for destroying their Star Wars.

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Next time, they should include Kermit the frog.

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:47 AM, Jay said:

You know what this made me think of?

 

That Star Wars' 40th, then Empire's 40th, then Star Wars' 45th, and now ROTJ's 40th all went by without Disney Records commissioning complete score releases of the OT

 

Indeed. And I continue to be surprised that a hi-res, surround sound, DTS, etc. version of these scores hasn't been released yet.  

[Chen G. 3,950]

7 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Like the film, it's simply not as well regarded as the two that went before it. 

 

I think that's just a little overly-charitable towards that film. Its a movie that many would probably consider somewhat disappointing even in a context other than of the trilogy it caps.

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

ROTJ has always benefited by being lumped in with two vastly superior films. 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

You just don't want to admit you're into cuddly bears.