Hook - 30th Anniversary Double Vinyl from Mondo Records 2021

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

I reckon we'll get a remastered OST on CD.

[Drew 556]

Just rerecord it. Make a compilation of rerecordings of the OT, Indy 3, and Hook to apologize for the atrocious mixing of yesteryear.

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

The Crusade OST sounds fine.

[Holko 8005]

5 minutes ago, blondheim said:

In fact, I know it's coming,

Back in 2019 or so when Sony Music changed heads and specialty label releases were temporarily frozen, we were told 2 releases were far enough along production that they weren't frozen and could proceed. I think those still haven't come out.

 

Jay said he had another Project Consultant credit like for HP on an MM project that hadn't come out yet, and AFAIK it still hasn't. (Though I can't find the original post and I'm sure he will quote it within 10 minutes to show how I'm misremembering, so take that with a grain of salt.)

[crocodile 6844]

 

Karol

[Holko 8005]

[crocodile 6844]

 

Karol

[Jay 30918]

Yes, I don't think LLL has released any titles with licenses from Sony Music since that 2019 post you're referring to.  The Thin Red Line came out after that post, but was already announced before.

 

I've helped out with lots of titles that aren't out yet!

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

 

Karol

 

Too much makeup!

[Holko 8005]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I've helped out with lots of titles that aren't out yet!

But except for HP, you only got thanked in all of them instead of getting a proper credit, right?

[Jay 30918]

Hmm, I thought I got something different on Schindler's List, but maybe not

[Holko 8005]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hmm, I thought I got something different on Schindler's List, but maybe not

Ah, you did. Production Assistance. Not quite Project Consultant

[bollemanneke 2867]

I don't care what anyone says. This might just mean it's coming in 2022. There is no way the 30th anniversary of Hook would go unmarked by LLL or on MM's watch. It's coming. It has to be coming. I don't want to have to ask my family for Amazon gift certificates again, that was a disaster. I need real stuff under the tree.

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

8 minutes ago, Holko said:

Ah, you did. Production Assistance. Not quite Project Consultant

 

Hey, someone has to put on the kettle!

 

6 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I don't want to have to ask my family for Amazon gift certificates again, that was a disaster.

 

Tell us!

[bollemanneke 2867]

'Why are you always so difficult? Why can't you think of something you can buy in Belgium? No, he doesn't want to give you money to save for later, he wants to give you something NOW, why can't you just think of something you want now?' Because I'm very happy with what I have and very specific about what I want. That's what happens when you're exposed to Marie Kondo.

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

 

2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

That's what happens when you're exposed to Marie Kondo.

 

No you didn't!

[Holko 8005]

50 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've helped out with lots of titles that aren't out yet!

 

This is what I was referring to:

On 2/12/2018 at 3:48 PM, Jay said:

On 2/11/2018 at 12:21 AM, Brundlefly said:

No, honestly @Jay, what would you say are the most probable expansions for this year? And if, how many of them are you involved in?

 

I know what expansions are in the works and obviously I wouldn't say a thing about any of them until after they are released or at least announced.

 

There's only one I'm truly "involved" in in a legitimate (credited) way; I worked on it back in 2016 and it still isn't out, hopefully it comes out in 2018 but there are no guarantees.  I got thanked in the booklets for ET and CE3K because I helped Mike out with some small aspects towards the end of production of each of them.  

 

HP wasn't done back in 2016 and this can't be Schindler either, that one was "rushed" for the anniversary and barely even got a second disc. If there's any single score I can imagine Jay getting a bigger production credit on beside HP (an also something that's been pushed back again and again and again), it's Hook.

Oh, also, there's that big Q1 2021 LLL release that was then Q2 and then 2022.

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

Probably Stepmom, Sleepers, or Amistad.

[Drew 556]

52 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The Crusade OST sounds fine.

 

Really? I heard it sounds worse than the Concord album. Or is that what you're referring to?

[Bounty95 448]

OK, so Hook would have been the only release that would have saved the "flood"... Seems like 2021 will end with a puddle. 

[Jay 30918]

When Dan Wallin recorded The Last Crusade, he put walls up (acoustic separators) between instrument sections.  So even though the orchestra was the same size as Temple of Doom's (and many of the players were the same), the resulting recording sounds smaller because of this recording technique he chose to use.

 

On top of this recording technique, it seems that even if nice proper analog tape was running to capture every take of every cue (let's hope this is true!), he edited the score digitally, meaning 1989-era digital technology lost a lot of the clarity those theoretical analog tapes would have held.  Since the OST album and Concord expansion were both assembled from these 1989 digital mixes, we are hoping that analog tape will be uncovered and freshly transferred and a new Crusade album could be rebuilt from scratch from that.

 

But even if that happens, it's unclear just how much of an impact Wallin's recording technique would have no matter what original source material is used.

[bollemanneke 2867]

40 minutes ago, Bounty95 said:

OK, so Hook would have been the only release that would have saved the "flood"... Seems like 2021 will end with a puddle. 

We had plenty of floods in this country though. Sadly no interesting CDs washed up.

[Drew 556]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

On top of this recording technique, it seems that even if nice proper analog tape was running to capture every take of every cue (let's hope this is true!), he edited the score digitally, meaning 1989-era digital technology lost a lot of the clarity those theoretical analog tapes would have held.  Since the OST album and Concord expansion were both assembled from these 1989 digital mixes, we are hoping that analog tape will be uncovered and freshly transferred and a new Crusade album could be rebuilt from scratch from that.

 

Idk about 1989 digital tech being bad. The CD quality digital audio standard has been the same since the early 80s. Elfman's Batman was a digital recording from 1989 and it still sounds fantastic, to the point where the original CD sounds better than attempts to remaster it 10 year ago.

[Jay 30918]

The format of the end consumer product we bought it on has nothing to do with what I was saying.

It's all about the equipment Wallin had in 1989 and how that equipment captured the analog audio and stored it as digital files, the software he used to edit and mix that audio, and what sampling rate and bit depth those digital files were.

 

It was probably a 24bit 44.1khz master at best.  Nowadays everything is done in much, much higher resolution than that.  And the software that captures analog audio is much better, let alone the software to edit and mix music.

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

It's all about the signal chain, i.e. equipment and settings, in addition to the acoustic characteristics of the recording venue and how it's captured (number of microphones, placement of microphones, reverb, damping, +++).

[Jay 30918]

Yep!

Maybe going back to the original multi-track and creating a brand new mix from that will result in a sound the majority of people prefer over Wallin's 1989 mix.  Or maybe it won't sound terribly different.  Who knows!  But I hope we get to find out one day!

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

Yes!

 

I doubt the walls between instrument sections affected the sound in a negative way, as it's very common to do in order to adjust each section independently in the mix.

[Jay 30918]

Dan Wallin did it to the bulk of Giacchino's film scores, and almost everyone agrees Iwataki's recordings of his film scores since Wallin retired are a massive improvement.

[Edmilson 4472]

I had more fun reading this thread than watching most comedy movies. 

[Jay 30918]

More from Mike

 

Quote

Quote

That's OK. We know how busy you must be getting the Complete Star Wars saga boxset ready

Star Wars is not the reason, nor is there any news on that. But of course we all know it needs to happen. I'm busy with a release that I hope others will be as excited about as I am. Plus there's Star Trek TMP Director's Edition in the works.

 

[JohnnyD 1107]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Prepare yourself mentally before reading any further

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sit down if you need to

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here we go

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike Matessino just posted this into the FSM thread for this release

 

"Despite the anniversary year and the Mondo LP, for which I rebuilt the original album, if an expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, it's news to me."

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=144686&forumID=1&archive=0

Dammit! Well, that’s disappointing. Really disappointing. 

[SteveMc 2671]

[Chewy 1946]

24 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm busy with a release that I hope others will be as excited about as I am.

 

Hopefully a new Williams title!

[QuartalHarmony 233]

23 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

if an expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, it's news to me

I openly admit I’m grasping at straws here, but note that (ever the tight-lipped diplomat), he doesn’t say he hasn’t been working on one, just that one is unlikely to be released this year.

 

I know how desperate this makes me sound, but I’m among my people here, right? You feel me.

 

[mopes quietly in dark room]
 

Mark

[Marian Schedenig 6213]

2 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

I openly admit I’m grasping at straws here, but note that (ever the tight-lipped diplomat), he doesn’t say he hasn’t been working on one, just that one is unlikely to be released this year.

 

I know how desperate this makes me sound, but I’m among my people here, right? You feel me.

 

It sounds to me like it's probably coming next year, because MM didn't say it's *definitely* not coming out this year. So I guess it could, in theory, but it's highly unlikely to be ready/cleared in time.

 

2 hours ago, Holko said:

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Hmm, I thought I got something different on Schindler's List, but maybe not

Ah, you did. Production Assistance. Not quite Project Consultant

 

They could have done more…

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

Jay could have done more!

 

With Sony's approval process I'm sure we'll have the expanded Hook within ten years, twenty at most.

[Edmilson 4472]

2022: "Well, Hook is not coming out this year, but I'm certain it'll come next year!"

 

2023: "No Hook again, but I'm sure next year!"

 

2026: "It's the 35th birthday! It's GOTTA come out this year!"

 

2029: "Can't lose hope! It WILL BE next year!"

 

2031: "40th birthday, I'm sure LLL and Matessino won't forget that!"

 

2049: "Please, I need a release date! PLEASE!"

 

2066: "75th birthday, it's now or never!"

 

2077: "Global warming has destroyed the planet, LLL no longer exists and Matessino is now a cyborg, but I WON'T LOSE HOPE!"

[QuartalHarmony 233]

11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

It sounds to me like it's probably coming next year, because MM didn't say it's *definitely* not coming out this year. So I guess it could, in theory

That’s the spirit, @Marian Schedenig! They may take our source music, they may let our master tapes burn and try to cover it up, but they will never take our blind faith and optimism.

[SilverTrumpet 510]

I totally missed this until now, somehow. 

[Jay 30918]

If you purchase vinyl from Mondo, do you get the opportunity to download lossless files of the program? I'd love to own Mike's remaster, but have no need for vinyl records in my house, even for scores I love

[Miguel Andrade 1034]

23 minutes ago, Jay said:

If you purchase vinyl from Mondo, do you get the opportunity to download lossless files of the program? I'd love to own Mike's remaster, but have no need for vinyl records in my house, even for scores I love

 

I have a few of them and none included downloadable audio or notes.

[crumbs 12574]

Bit of a red flag that Mike used transfers from 2011 to assemble this Mondo remaster. I would've thought, if any new expansion of Hook was in the works, that new high-resolution transfers would be commissioned (considering multiple reels were missing/lost in 2011, and it's unclear if the rest were even first-generation masters).

 

So... this news is pretty deflating to me.

 

The comment about Star Wars doesn't inspire confidence either. It feels like we've heard that sentiment ever since the license reverted to Disney, but it's been radio silence ever since. Every time I (naively) get my hopes up that an anniversary or a new film or the completion of a trilogy might trigger it... nothing happens.

 

We're stuck between rolling lockdowns in Australia and soundtrack expansions are one of the few things to look forward to. I'm eternally grateful to Mike and all the labels for their work behind the scenes, but it's so frustrating how these highly-coveted scores seem to be endlessly stuck in no-man's-land.

[Jay 30918]

13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Bit of a red flag that Mike used transfers from 2011 to assemble this Mondo remaster. I would've thought, if any new expansion of Hook was in the works, that new high-resolution transfers would be commissioned

 

About that specifically:

 

On 7/26/2021 at 4:48 PM, Jay said:

I would speculate he rebuilt it using the tape transfers done in 2011 for the 20th Anniversary LLL project.  I don't think new transfers of those tapes made in 2021 would be terribly different from the 2011 transfers, and I doubt Mondo would fund new transfers anyway, since those exist.

 

Sony Pictures and Sony Music both have the right equipment to take old analog tape and spit out pristine 24/192 digital transfers of what's on it.  Running the tape through such a machine in 2021 would have resulted in basically the same files as running it through the same machine in 2011.

 

This isn't like Raiders and TOD, where they literally used the equipment wrong and ended up with music playing at the wrong speed, so a fresh transfer is required for those.  The 2011 Hook transfer would still be considered pretty fresh!

[Smeltington 1066]

20 hours ago, Jay said:

if an expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, it's news to me.

 

Then we still have these possibilities:

- An expanded Hook is coming out on CD, but not this year

- An expanded Hook is coming out this year, but not on CD

- Hook is coming out on CD this year, but it's not expanded

- An expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, but no one told Mike

 

Take your pick!

[Jurassic Shark 9303]

1 minute ago, Smeltington said:

- An expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, but no one told Mike Jay

 

Fixed!

[Marian Schedenig 6213]

3 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

- An expanded Hook is coming out on CD this year, but no one told Mike

 

Or they only told him very recently, making it breaking news to him (but I don't think that's it).

[Jay 30918]

I have a potentially really dumb question, but I've gotten in trouble lately for assuming I knew what someone meant, so now I'd rather look dumb for not understanding rather than looking dumb for having the wrong interpretation.

 

When Mike said this:

 

"Star Wars is not the reason, nor is there any news on that. But of course we all know it needs to happen. I'm busy with a release that I hope others will be as excited about as I am. Plus there's Star Trek TMP Director's Edition in the works."

 

Does "it" refer to a fixed Hook, or does "it" refer to Star Wars expansions?

[crumbs 12574]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Does "it" refer to a fixed Hook, or does "it" refer to Star Wars expansions?

 

The latter.

 

23 minutes ago, Jay said:

This isn't like Raiders and TOD, where they literally used the equipment wrong and ended up with music playing at the wrong speed, so a fresh transfer is required for those.  The 2011 Hook transfer would still be considered pretty fresh!

 

I guess... but that's assuming the tapes transferred back in 2011 were first-generation, or if they cut corners and used latter generation stereo masters or something.

 

Considering the hodgepodge of sources used elsewhere, I'm not convinced. There must be better elements out there somewhere.

[Bounty95 448]

30 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Soundtrack expansions are one of the few things to look forward to. I'm eternally grateful to Mike and all the labels for their work behind the scenes, but it's so frustrating how these highly-coveted scores seem to be endlessly stuck in no-man's-land.

 

This. Somehow 2021 feels worse to me than 2020 (we got some pretty exciting expansions last year!), and promising that flood didn't help either... Disappointment was inevitable. 

 

- no Hook

- no Patriot

- no Willow

(not that anyone actually expected it, but OF COURSE no SW or Indy)

 

I will still remain hopeful.

[Edmilson 4472]

9 minutes ago, Bounty95 said:

- no Patriot