First Clip from Indy 5 with new John Williams action music

[Bayesian 1,266]

I’m not sure I like the attitude emanating from this thread. After everything JW has given us in his eight-decade-spanning career, hasn’t he earned the benefit of the doubt? Can’t we wait until we see the film or listen to the OST before worrying that JW has somehow let us down? And even if it turns out a couple minutes in his two-hour pencil-on-paper score are lifted, does that diminish the fact that that lifted music stands head and shoulders above what nearly anyone else on the planet could write?

 

We continue to get so much from the man and somehow it’s never quite enough. Fucking ingrates.

[Brónach 1,278]

the score sucks. better close the forum.

[Loert 2,414]

Been nice knowing you all!

[HunterTech 847]

9 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

I’m not sure I like the attitude emanating from this thread. After everything JW has given us in his eight-decade-spanning career, hasn’t he earned the benefit of the doubt? Can’t we wait until we see the film or listen to the OST before worrying that JW has somehow let us down? And even if it turns out a couple minutes in his two-hour pencil-on-paper score are lifted, does that diminish the fact that that lifted music stands head and shoulders above what nearly anyone else on the planet could write?

 

We continue to get so much from the man and somehow it’s never quite enough. Fucking ingrates.

 

Simple: Lucasfilm/Disney has burnt people that much to where it's hard to shake off the feeling that this could turn into another TRoS based on what we have (and to a lesser extent TLJ with its temp track reliance). It has less to do with the man himself, and more the modern environment in which he has been placed in.

 

Of course, since we have so little to judge, I certainly think a few of the replies are jumping the gun too much. It's an entirely different creative team that is involved, so we really wouldn't want to be so firm about this making the same mistakes yet again. Plus, since he did originally sign on to only provide the new themes, I don't know why it's implausible that the thematic heavy moments are likely to be the most refined out of the whole score. We just need to be realistic here.

[Schilkeman 778]

7 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Simple: Lucasfilm/Disney has burnt people that much to where it's hard to shake off the feeling that this could turn into another TRoS based on what we have (and to a lesser extent TLJ with its temp track reliance). It has less to do with the man himself, and more the modern environment in which he has been placed in.

I thought we were talking about the soundtrack. I don't really care about the movie. It's missing half the creative team that made the series what it is, but it is a new JW score in the year of our lord 2023, and I don't think we should assess (incorrectly at that) a score based on a one minute clip with tons of sound effects and dialog. I agree with you, people are jumping the gun here big time.

 

Between this thread, and many people's responses to the Top 10 score thread, it seems many have made up their mind already that this is going to be an inferior work, and are unwilling to think otherwise, which is sad. It may be, but I'm willing to give it a fair shot. One minute is not a fair shot.

[HunterTech 847]

Well, I'm going off of all the information regarding how much the final edit for TRoS's score relied so heavily on tracked material over what was originally written, so I do think that is likely subconsciously informing some of the comments here (despite JJ being a very special case in regards to that).

[Brónach 1,278]

4 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Well, I'm going off of all the information regarding how much the final edit for TRoS's score relied so heavily on tracked material over what was originally written, so I do think that is likely subconsciously informing some of the comments here (despite JJ being a very special case in regards to that).

 

i actually... don't know why you would edit that movie like that. or why would you use an star wars temo track in that one or the last jedi. it's just strange.

[JTW 1,242]

18 hours ago, Bayesian said:

After everything JW has given us in his eight-decade-spanning career, hasn’t he earned the benefit of the doubt?

He absolutely does and he gets it, I’m sure. Everyone on this thread is over the Moon (no pun intended) about the new Indy score and will be listening to it the minute it’s available. 
 

I think it’s just since it’s JOHN WILLIAMS, most people have so high an expectation that sometimes not even Williams can meet. This is the downside of being the greatest living film composer.

 

But I’m positive the Maestro will deliver yet again and everyone will be blown away by his score. I wish I could say the same thing about the film.

[Alex 2,743]

I share the opinion that JW should be able to do whatever the f*** he wants

[mrbellamy 5,997]

I think it's also just annoying because these are our first impressions. We're all impatient for the new stuff but the main thing that sticks out right now from what we have is the tracking, so that's what we're able to discuss right now until we get a better listen. And you hope these just happen to be exceptions in these scenes they decided to put out there, and not indicative of how the score is constructed overall. We know he's been working on this forever so it'll be shocking if it's Chamber of Secrets lol. 

[Alex 2,743]

5 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

We know he's been working on this forever so it'll be shocking if it's Chamber of Secrets lol. 

 

Imagine it comes out and it has an "Adapted by Williams Ross" credit. Jay might have to shut down the forum forever.

[Taikomochi 1,079]

Don’t worry. If that comes to be, then a contingent of users band together and pop up in every single thread that the issue of reuse comes up in to reassure you that actually this score is 100% Williams, deliberately obfuscating the fact that no one thinks William Ross wrote music for the film as much as Williams reused too much. Just the way they seem to do every time the Chamber of Secrets reuse problems get discussed. And so we can all just go on living in denial that way. 👍 

[TolkienSS 384]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

He absolutely does and he gets it, I’m sure. Everyone on this thread is over the Moon (no pun intended) about the new Indy score and will be listening to it the minute it’s available. 
 

I think it’s just since it’s JOHN WILLIAMS, most people have so high an expectation that sometimes not even Williams can meet. This is the downside of being the greatest living film composer.

 

But I’m positive the Maestro will deliver yet again and everyone will be blown away by his score. I wish I could say the same thing about the film.

 

That's actually not the case for me at all.

I don't have the highest expectations because I've been listening to John Williams scores for 30 years, and can realistically gauge what to expect. The man is 90 years old, and it shows that full blockbuster scores are too taxing for him - the last years have shown a very clear trend in that direction. 

When I say it sounds like it became too much for him in the process, I don't mean it as a knock on Williams.

 

It's understandable for directors, especially upcoming directors who get to tackle iconic movie figures, that they want to get the old prize winning horse saddled, and they know Williams probably wouldn't feel good if someone else touched one of his BIG franchises (after the rumored disdain of his for Giacchino's take on his Star Wars themes).

 

I will listen to it as soon as it's available (not the movie though), but I know I will get enjoyment out of the few concert arrangements, and aside from that, it will most likely be the standard Williams fare that he's done for about 10 years.

Nobody should realistically expect setpieces like Basket Game.

 

On the contrary, I don't think the problem is people who have tempered expectations, or who have high expectations and voice dissapointment; the most problematic are always the ones who have skyhigh expectations, and then talk themselves into a sort of autosuggestive state in which the music cannot be anything but the Second Coming of Christ, and get aggressive if suggested otherwise.

[Remco 685]

Not that he hasn't done set pieces in the last 10 years - look at the Speeder Chase, that ended up not being in the movie. I would actually be glad if he re-used it in Indy.

[Brónach 1,278]

10 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

 The man is 90 years old, and it shows that full blockbuster scores are too taxing for him

 

i think, if i were in a situation to make the choice, that i wouldn't ask for so much wall-to-wall scoring at all

[Alex 2,743]

If you´ve seen the full, leaked 6 minute clip, most of the music (I´d say 90%) is actually original.

[Tom 4,179]

14 minutes ago, Alex said:

If you´ve seen the full, leaked 6 minute clip, most of the music (I´d say 90%) is actually original.

That is the part I don't get with some of the negative speculative reactions.  We know the full scene and the score that goes with it. 

[Antonb 116]

4 hours ago, JTW said:

He absolutely does and he gets it, I’m sure. Everyone on this thread is over the Moon (no pun intended) about the new Indy score and will be listening to it the minute it’s available. 
 

I think it’s just since it’s JOHN WILLIAMS, most people have so high an expectation that sometimes not even Williams can meet. This is the downside of being the greatest living film composer.

 

But I’m positive the Maestro will deliver yet again and everyone will be blown away by his score. I wish I could say the same thing about the film.

why do you say that about the film? You havent believed the rubbish rumours have you? Its all made up by trolls. No reshoots the film locked, disney are very happy with it. The truth will be out shorty.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,643]

5 hours ago, Alex said:

I share the opinion that JW should be able to do whatever the f*** he wants

 

[Garrett 139]

1 hour ago, Antonb said:

No reshoots the film locked

Film locked you say?

 

As of April 8, 2023, the runtime of Dial of Destiny was confirmed to be 142-143 minutes long by Kathleen Kennedy.

 

As of yesterday, the film was confirmed by Disney to be 153 minutes long.

 

Source:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/indiana-jones-dial-destiny-154-221500424.html

No doubt part of the difference can be explained by adding in the end credits. But end credits are not 10 minutes long. Therefore, I deduce that about 5 minutes of footage has been recently added to the film, and that as of at least April 8, the film was NOT locked.

When did the picture lock? According to Jared Effler, who has been a reliable source for this movie (he predicted the title “Dial of Destiny,” among other things), Indy 5 locked April 28.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

 

 

 

[Tom 4,179]

End credits are commonly near 10 minutes long.  

[mrbellamy 5,997]

4 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

On the contrary, I don't think the problem is people who have tempered expectations, or who have high expectations and voice dissapointment; the most problematic are always the ones who have skyhigh expectations, and then talk themselves into a sort of autosuggestive state in which the music cannot be anything but the Second Coming of Christ, and get aggressive if suggested otherwise.

 

I think there's some truth to that but I would say for me JWFan is at its worst whenever that latter mentality rubs against those who are so unenthused with Williams's recent work and hardly ever post anything positive about new scores or seem to really be looking forward to them that I wonder why they even bother coming here except out of habit. 

 

I'm the first to advocate managing expectations but there are ways to do that without just being a buzzkill. 

[Jay 35,279]

It's a struggle to moderate the buzzkills.  You want to make everyone feel like they can share their honest opinions of scores and films and stuff, be they positive or negative.  But then those few users who seemingly ONLY post negative things about everything they listen to or watch, and make sure to post those negative opinions at every opportunity, where do you draw the line of it being a problem.  Very hard to figure out

[artguy360 1,788]

For me, it's not just downers, it's blatant jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence.

[crumbs 13,887]

4 hours ago, artguy360 said:

For me, it's not just downers, it's blatant jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence.

 

Especially when they overlook Helena's Theme, a wholly original 5 minute concert suite for which he wrote two different arrangements.

 

How can anyone say the man's phoning it in from this 60 second clip? It also ignores the fact that every previous Indy sequel reused existing material to varying degrees.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,643]

It's the equivalent to if the first clip released from KOTCS was Indy's escape in the warehouse (maybe it was, I don't remember 🤷‍♂️). And that's really the only action set piece that borrows material from another film.

[Schilkeman 778]

7 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

The man is 90 years old, and it shows that full blockbuster scores are too taxing for him - the last years have shown a very clear trend in that direction.

Im sorry, what? The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi have some outstanding action music. A little different from his older style, but still very good. Before that, The BFG has writing every bit as intricate and intense as any action score, just not as loud. He doesn’t deliver four of these a year anymore, but he’s still got it.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,338]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

Especially when they overlook Helena's Theme, a wholly original 5 minute long concert suite for which he wrote two different arrangements.

 

How can anyone say the man's phoning it in from a 60 second clip? It also ignores the fact that every previous Indy sequel reused existing material to varying degrees.

 

[Bryant Burnette 610]

8 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

 

That's actually not the case for me at all.

I don't have the highest expectations because I've been listening to John Williams scores for 30 years, and can realistically gauge what to expect. The man is 90 years old, and it shows that full blockbuster scores are too taxing for him - the last years have shown a very clear trend in that direction. 

When I say it sounds like it became too much for him in the process, I don't mean it as a knock on Williams.

 

It's understandable for directors, especially upcoming directors who get to tackle iconic movie figures, that they want to get the old prize winning horse saddled, and they know Williams probably wouldn't feel good if someone else touched one of his BIG franchises (after the rumored disdain of his for Giacchino's take on his Star Wars themes).

 

I will listen to it as soon as it's available (not the movie though), but I know I will get enjoyment out of the few concert arrangements, and aside from that, it will most likely be the standard Williams fare that he's done for about 10 years.

Nobody should realistically expect setpieces like Basket Game.

 

On the contrary, I don't think the problem is people who have tempered expectations, or who have high expectations and voice dissapointment; the most problematic are always the ones who have skyhigh expectations, and then talk themselves into a sort of autosuggestive state in which the music cannot be anything but the Second Coming of Christ, and get aggressive if suggested otherwise.

 

Shut the fuck up.

[BB-8 2,964]

1 minute of action music can be many things...but one thing it is not: a wholly original 5 minute long concert suite.

[Brónach 1,278]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Especially when they overlook Helena's Theme, a wholly original 5 minute concert suite for which he wrote two different arrangements.

 

Two?? And we'll only get one. This is a disaster.

[Jilal 554]

I think I might have been a little too pessimistic at first and I truly hope I didn't ruin this thread that way. 

 

I still don't think the minute of underscore in this clip is particularly engaging (although I would say there are a few interesting little moments), but paraphrasing what I said earlier, I'm sure the rest of the score will offer lots of original material to savor. Heck, even if we're in for more tongue-in-cheek quotes of previously written material.  @TolkienSS I, for one, don't think that the days of outstanding musical setpieces like The Basket Game are over. The SW sequel trilogy had some musical setpieces which IMHO come very close and which stand out from some of the less interesting, "autopilot"-type action music. Of course, it's going to be pretty hard to match, let alone topple the originality of, say, the original SW trilogy or the first three Indy films, where nearly every piece of action music is a musical setpiece on its own, but I'm expecting at least some of that here.

[Brónach 1,278]

We're taking for granted the incredible situation that this ninety-one year old man is doing this and has been at doing it for a while and even wrote concert pieces for it. This is insane.

[Andy 3,572]

That this even is happening is a goddam miracle.   And I think it’s gonna be delightful, both film and score.  I’m ready fall in love with them. 

[Loert 2,414]

12 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

 

I think it's more like:

 

[JTW 1,242]

4 hours ago, Jilal said:

still don't think the minute of underscore in this clip is particularly engaging

Let’s. Wait. For. The. Soundtrack. Album. 

[ThePenitentMan1 499]

50 minutes ago, Loert said:

 

I think it's more like:

 

 

We already have the slates?!

 

_jk

[mrbellamy 5,997]

3 hours ago, Andy said:

That this even is happening is a goddam miracle.   And I think it’s gonna be delightful, both film and score.  I’m ready fall in love with them. 

 

Once Spielberg was out and Mangold was in, I fully had my defenses up that John Williams wouldn't do it and the movie probably wouldn't be that great anyway so whatever, I just tried to get ready not to care too much if he didn't do it. 

 

Also I already went through the whole process of listening to Rise of Skywalker as though it would be the last time we got a score as loaded as this. Not to mention looking forward to every score through the 2010s and just hoping for his good health as he marched through his 80s. We say this kind of shit all the time but it bears repeating, it's really unfathomable on all levels to me that we're here. 

[Antonb 116]

18 hours ago, Garrett said:

Film locked you say?

 

As of April 8, 2023, the runtime of Dial of Destiny was confirmed to be 142-143 minutes long by Kathleen Kennedy.

 

As of yesterday, the film was confirmed by Disney to be 153 minutes long.

 

Source:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/indiana-jones-dial-destiny-154-221500424.html

No doubt part of the difference can be explained by adding in the end credits. But end credits are not 10 minutes long. Therefore, I deduce that about 5 minutes of footage has been recently added to the film, and that as of at least April 8, the film was NOT locked.

When did the picture lock? According to Jared Effler, who has been a reliable source for this movie (he predicted the title “Dial of Destiny,” among other things), Indy 5 locked April 28.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

 Its just the end credits added on, The director is my source.  

 

 

 

[Jilal 554]

3 hours ago, JTW said:

Let’s. Wait. For. The. Soundtrack. Album. 

 

The soundtrack album is probably not going to change my opinion on this particular bit of music.

 

I. Don't. Think. A. JW. Fan. Is. Obliged. To. Worship. Every. Minute. Of. Every. JW. Score. Ever. Written.

[Score 743]

On 15/05/2023 at 7:53 PM, Jilal said:

I hope the rest of the score isn't as derivative.

 

Your avatar is derivative! 

[Jilal 554]

7 minutes ago, Score said:

Your avatar is derivative! 

 

Yet still quite electrifying, dare I say.

[Tom 4,179]

1 hour ago, Jilal said:

 

The soundtrack album is probably not going to change my opinion on this particular bit of music.

 

I. Don't. Think. A. JW. Fan. Is. Obliged. To. Worship. Every. Minute. Of. Every. JW. Score. Ever. Written.

Well, at least you know the particular minute that you need not worship.  

[Bayesian 1,266]

2 hours ago, Score said:

 

Your avatar is derivative! 

Say what you will about the tension in this thread, but it certainly has driven up the clever joke and funny meme-to-post ratio nicely. We can all bury the hatchet after all!