HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It is not a fan theory. Tinkerbell plotted with hook because she wanted to bring peter back. 

[Groovygoth666 670]

Well after finally listening through this once and reading what others have said and summarised perfectly in this thread I really don't know what more I can add. 

 

Perhaps I'll start with the very minor gripes, which are just personal preferences and not meant as suggesting that the wrong decisions were made on this release in any way. 

 

The cover, overall the design is near perfect, except I would have liked the Hook title to be the iconic red, just to make it really leap out against the deep blue of the background, with it being black it kinda gets lost. And I'd preferred the vocal version of Presenting The Hook in the main program. But I'm guessing that the final assembly was based off feedback from Williams and ultimately that's his decision to make. 

 

And now for the good. To quote the liner notes this is "An Awfully Big Soundtrack" indeed. Starting with the music, it's great to finally have everything including the film versions, each disc is just jam packed, disc 3 is especially enlighting including those early songs that add a new meaning to the themes used throughout the score. For the music itself, I don't know how much of a difference there is sonically between this and the 2012 expansion, but it all sounds crystal clear, even the demos featured on disc 3. With the first booklet as the track list and credits it leaves plenty of room for the second, which is the perfect example of how liner notes should be. The first chapter covering the genesis and production of the film, chapter two covering each track and highlighting the themes used along with what the orchestra is doing technically then chapter three starting off with what Williams was up to circa 91 to add some more context before breaking down the contents of disc 3. These liner notes couldn't be more perfect. 

 

As for those unused musical numbers, they are just a fantastic insight into what this film could have been, but I think ultimately the best decision was made to drop them. Not to say they are bad or anything, but it feels like most of them would have killed the momentum of the film, which already has a lengthy runtime. 

 

Seeing the poster on page nine of the booklet instantly transported me back to 91 and seeing it in our TV guide and carefully cutting it out along the "burnt" edges and putting it up on my wall for many years. 

 

And something maybe a little personal, but I lost my mum last year, so seeing there was a song called "Mothers" wasn't sure what to expect and while the lyrics were very cheesey I'm not ashamed to say that a few tears were shed as it very much evoked what makes a mother so special and what there is to be missed. 

 

Overall this truly is the Ultimate Edition, I really can't remember the last time I was this excited for a score expansion release. This being my favourite Williams score it's great to have a definitive release and do away with the makeshift version that was a combination of various sources and of varying quality.

 

So thank you @Jay, @John Takis, Mike Matessino and the good folks at LaLaLand for giving this the release it absolutely deserved. 

 

[Holko 9,529]

One tiny weird thing - why is the Last Crusade-esque synth zither called a cimbalom?

[Faleel 5,358]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

One tiny weird thing - why is the Last Crusade-esque synth zither called a cimbalom?

Maybe it was notated that way in the score?

 

"Synth Cimbalom" ala "Synth boo-bams" from SW.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

Zithers and cimbaloms aren’t the same thing - zithers are plucked, cimbaloms (the Hungarian name for a hammered dulcimer) are played with tiny mallets and sound quite different.

Mark

[Holko 9,529]

Zithers have this higher sounding resonance, cimbalom has a deeper twangy sound.

[John Takis 206]

2 hours ago, Presto said:

Maybe it was notated that way in the score?

 

Bingo.

[Incanus 5,715]

Well I have now finished my second full listen of the whole set and it is staggeringly glorious! While Jurassic Park was my introduction to John Williams' music and basically turned me into a fan back in 1993, Hook isn't far behind (Presenting the Hook sequence might be one of my earliest musical memories from movies in general) and the complete score has been my holy grail ever since I figured out that the OST was missing so much of the beautiful music.

I won't reiterate too many of the thoughts so many others have already expressed in this thread about this beautfiul release. But I can't lie. I did shed a tear or two listening to this new presentation all the while grinning from ear-to-ear with delight. It is such a long time wish and now it has been delivered beyond my wildest expectations.

The score most certainly holds a nostalgic place in my heart and aptly this score is so strongly about childhood and nostalgia. But at the same time seems to have it all: The winning thematic melodicism, the athletic (or should I say in this case acrobatic) colourful orchestral writing, the absolutely pitch perfect way Williams captures both the subtext and the straightforward narrative needs of the film while writing superbly engaging and intricate music that in itself paints such vivid pictures and stands on its own as well as functions likea  musical mirror to the movie. In fact the music feels so very much in tune with the movie that it seems to capture the very mood and even lighting of the scenes in its notes. To me it is one of those perfect scores that seems like a world unto itself.

 

The complete score on discs 1 and 2 is such a powerhouse of a fantasy score, now all the more satisfying in its truly complete form, inserts and all. Too many highlights to mention. The 3rd disc was a small revelation as it presents all the songs written for the production that were ultimately dropped. But their history detailed in the excellent liner notes goes a long way explaining the reason for the long lined melodies many of the themes in this score have. In a way the songs on disc 3 do enchance the listening experience of the full score as you really can chart the thematic development through them even better than before. Not all of the songs are winners but pieces like The Low Below  - Pirate Sequence, Stick With Me and Childhood are just as catchy and delightful in their song guise as in the final underscore. The diegetic bonus material is equally wonderful in its piraty feel and makes you once again appreciate how much of Williams' musical effort for this movie went behind-the-scenes, unknown until now. Part and parcel of the film composer's craft but it is wonderful to finally hear all this existing recorded material.

 

This is just about as Ultimate as a film music release can get (we even have  stuff like Take Me Out to the Ball Game!) and a perfect Christmas present! My humble thanks to Mike Matessino, @Jay and @John Takis and everybody at La-La Land Records for producing this.

 

P.S. I couldn't help but chuckle when I thought of the other John Williams "Ultimate edition" having a blue cover, a polar opposite of this one. 

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I had the rare opportunity yesterday to sit down and have all three discs play in (nearly) one sitting. What an achievement this set is! The music, the sound, the presentation, the art direction. It's all wonderful.

 

I've loved the music from Hook for a long time, but I also found it hard to connect to the full score, as there was never a definitive presentation. The bootlegs had music missing or sound quality issues. I completely skipped the old LLL expansion when it became clear it basically had some of the same issues as the bootlegs.

 

Now that we have this Ultimate Edition, the whole score is able to unfold in all its glory. I love it.

 

Just the fact that this set opens with a never-before heard version of the Prologue immediately grabbed my attention. Then both We Don't Wanna Grow Up and Banning Back Home are extended. All this before we get to the proper orchestral score.

 

Hook is like a Peter and the Wolf tapestry of themes and motifs. It is such a joy to listen to and listening to it in full completely reaffirmed to me why I love orchestral film scores like this. It's big, it's bold, and it's so, so rich with melody and excitement.

 

Finally, Hook is one of those films that has meant different things to me at different stages in my life.

 

When I first saw it at seven years old, it was my favorite thing ever. The production design instantly launched me to this magical playground world made for kids. To a seven year-old, that's quite something.

 

In my teens, as I was discovering more of cinema, it lost some of its glamour. That playground world suddenly seemed fake and soundstagey and I found the film waaaaaay to sugary to be enjoyable.

 

Later on, I found new appreciation for it, mostly because of the performances by Williams, Hoffman and Hoskins. And it became more a part of Spielberg's filmography than a film of its own, with its recurring themes of fatherhood being another variation on things said in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Jurassic Park. 

 

Yesterday, as I was making my way through the score and the liner notes, my eight month-old son was enjoying himself in his playpen next to me. And not having seen the film in a while, it suddenly hit me how the whole point of the film - the one thing it builds to for ninety minutes - is a working father realising his children are the brightest center of his universe.

 

It was... a moment.

 

Thanks again to everyone involved for this amazing release. We are truly blessed to be able to tick off a Holy Grail like this in such a fashion.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I've been listening to the set quite a bit, aiming at crafting an expanded version of my previous playlist, and the first thing that struck me is a complete absence of any audio issues, anomalies, dodgy edits or anything to indicate that this wasn't taken from proper tapes, transferred by someone who knows exactly what they're doing.

 

In an ideal world at least discs 1 and 2 would have been the initial expansion - the full score, perfect sound and a few bonuses. I can easily see disc 3 being part of a future reissue (i.e. this one) for those who want literally everything that was conceived for the project. However, the entire thing is beautifully assembled, edited and basically nothing whatsoever to nitpick. That's rare, even in MM land. (and please read that the right way... even Mike makes the odd mistake or debatable choice here and there... he's not perfect, but this set? Nothing.)

 

Score wise I never found the bedroom sequences, nor the middle Neverland scenes (pre-battle) that interesting so I dropped much of that. My focus is on having the initial scenes, the journey, and the Ultimate War in truly definitive quality and presentation. My score presentation is just a smidge over a CD of music.

 

In terms of the bonus/musical material, I found that the instrumental When You're Alone was very enjoyable. Plus I put the film version of Never Feast, the extended Prologue, and a concert version of The Banquet from one of the SS/JW re-recordings at the end of the playlist, plus the instrumental Pirate Sequence at a suitable place.

 

The other musical-oriented/vocal bits on disc 3... sorry peeps (and producers) but they're not my thing at all. I know most here love them and will consider disc 3 sacred and completely sacriligious to meddle with (and I do congratulate the presentation, curation and attention this disc received - truly outstanding), but partly as I'm not into musicals and partly my listening habits of not keeping entire bonus sections (unless said bonus section is three cues long) it's not really an addition that interested me. The flawless presentation of the full intended score is the draw for me here.

[Faleel 5,358]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I've been listening to the set quite a bit, aiming at crafting an expanded version of my previous playlist, and the first thing that struck me is a complete absence of any audio issues, anomalies, dodgy edits or anything to indicate that this wasn't taken from proper tapes, transferred by someone who knows exactly what they're doing.

 

In an ideal world at least discs 1 and 2 would have been the initial expansion - the full score, perfect sound and a few bonuses. I can easily see disc 3 being part of a future reissue (i.e. this one) for those who want literally everything that was conceived for the project. However, the entire thing is beautifully assembled, edited and basically nothing whatsoever to nitpick. That's rare, even in MM land. (and please read that the right way... even Mike makes the odd mistake or debatable choice here and there... he's not perfect*, but this set? Nothing.)

 

Score wise I never found the bedroom sequences, nor the middle Neverland scenes (pre-battle) that interesting so I dropped much of that. My focus is on having the initial scenes, the journey, and the Ultimate War in truly definitive quality and presentation. My score presentation is just a smidge over a CD of music.

 

In terms of the bonus/musical material, I found that the instrumental When You're Alone was very enjoyable. Plus I put the film version of Never Feast, the extended Prologue, and a concert version of The Banquet from one of the SS/JW re-recordings at the end of the playlist, plus the instrumental Pirate Sequence at a suitable place.

 

The other musical-oriented/vocal bits on disc 3... sorry peeps (and producers) but they're not my thing at all. I know most here love them and will consider disc 3 sacred and completely sacriligious to meddle with (and I do congratulate the presentation, curation and attention this disc received - truly outstanding), but partly as I'm not into musicals and partly my listening habits of not keeping entire bonus sections (unless said bonus section is three cues long) it's not really an addition that interested me. The flawless presentation of the full intended score is the draw for me here.

 

* I'm strongly against the popular mindset that even the most accomplished composer/producer is infallible and that drawing attention to flaws or 'room for improvement' is somehow being negative or against the grain. There have been mastering/editorial things that Mike has done that I didn't like, but I recognise that as an overall restorer/researcher/producer/editor package he's done magic we will never understand to make a score listenable.

So, where is the playlist?

[Jay 37,370]

On 23/12/2023 at 3:37 AM, Holko said:

One tiny weird thing - why is the Last Crusade-esque synth zither called a cimbalom?

 

[Holko 9,529]

Ah yes, thanks to you and @John Takis for the confirmation. So it could have been a weak/badly named sample on the keyboard, or they changed their minds while recording?

[Jay 37,370]

Very true, the conductor's score scans we get don't always reflect podium changes

[Holko 9,529]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

a complete absence of any audio issues, anomalies, dodgy edits or anything

 

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

basically nothing whatsoever to nitpick. That's rare, even in MM land.

Hehe, hold my beer: When You're Alone, 2:03-2:07, the left channel oversaturates a bit.

[Jay 37,370]

That's how Armin Steiner recorded that cue.  It's the same way on the OST album

[QuartalHarmony 543]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

When You're Alone, 2:03-2:07, the left channel oversaturates a bit.

That rendition is and always has been (emotionally) oversaturated from start to finish. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

3 hours ago, Presto said:

So, where is the playlist?

 

01 - Hook Prologue
02 - The Bedroom
03 - Hook Returns To Kensington
04 - Hook Is Back
05 - Forgotten How To Fly
06 - The Arrival Of Tink
07 - The Flight To Neverland
08 - Pirate Town And Presenting The Hook
09 - Pirate Sequence
10 - The Face Of Pan
11 - Hook's Epiphany
12 - Smee's Plan
13 - The Banquet
14 - The Never-Feast
15 - The Flying Sequence
16 - You Are The Pan
17 - Tink Grows Up
18 - The Ultimate War
19 - Death Of Rufio
20 - The Sword Fight And The End Of Hook
21 - Farewell Neverland
22 - Hook End Credits And Exit Music
23 - When You're Alone (Instrumental)
24 - The Never-Feast (Film Version)
25 - Hook Prologue (Extended Version)
26 - The Banquet (Concert)

[Faleel 5,358]

Nice.

[Tydirium 1,167]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

01 - Hook Prologue
02 - The Bedroom
03 - Hook Returns To Kensington
04 - Hook Is Back
05 - Forgotten How To Fly
06 - The Arrival Of Tink
07 - The Flight To Neverland
08 - Pirate Town And Presenting The Hook
09 - Pirate Sequence
10 - The Face Of Pan
11 - Hook's Epiphany
12 - Smee's Plan
13 - The Banquet
14 - The Never-Feast
15 - The Flying Sequence
16 - You Are The Pan
17 - Tink Grows Up
18 - The Ultimate War
19 - Death Of Rufio
20 - The Sword Fight And The End Of Hook
21 - Farewell Neverland
22 - Hook End Credits And Exit Music
23 - When You're Alone (Instrumental)
24 - The Never-Feast (Film Version)
25 - Hook Prologue (Extended Version)
26 - The Banquet (Concert)

 

I like it! But no “Lost Boy Chase”?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I got a bit tired of it over time so didn't include it for now.

[QuartalHarmony 543]

OK, I’ve listened to Discs 3 and 1 (in that order) and it’s been quite a journey. Given I’ve never heard any of the boots nor the 2012 release, so much of it is new to me and it really underlines - proves, even - what I’ve known for years: that the score to Hook is absolutely one of JW’s genuinely great achievements. Mike, Jay, John et al. undoubtedly deserve enormous gratitude for doing such a great job on this for us fans, for posterity and for analysts and historians of film music.

 

I’m very much looking forward to @Jay’s spreadsheet which will help me appreciate the details of various versions etc. when it lands - as I am sure it will!

 

I appreciate that some purists want every track in the main score presentation to be the film version, but JW’s desire to have the original version of The Lost Boy Chase on disc 1 and the film version shunted to disc 3 is absolutely right. That synth percussion is a bit embarrassing.

 

Sonically, it’s very good, but then - to be fair - the original recordings were already very high quality, judging by the OST. Only criticism is that the bass is a bit too overbearing on my system - disc 1, track 20, 2:20 - 2:26 is particularly bad. Amusingly, I was also pulling a face at the reverb on We Don’t Wanna, and went back to the OST… only to find it was worse on there! My bad.

 

The recording dates given are more interesting than usual - on 26th October 1991, Armin Steiner was recording some stuff at the Newman Scoring Stage whilst Shawn Murphy was also recording other stuff at Westside Studios. Is that the only time there’s ever been such overlap for a JW score? The final recording date was a mere four weeks before the film’s release - is this also a JW record?

Also, the 2001 recording dates for Childhood, Mothers and Believe (which I assume are tracks 3, 15 & 19 on disc 3), referenced on p13 of the main booklet, aren’t listed. Are they unknown?

 

Still looking forward to listening to disc 2!

 

Mark

[Jay 37,370]

That's correct, the recording dates for Childhood and Believe are not known.  I can't even recall now if it was ever figured out if they were 2001 or 2002!

 

At one point we had this info in the liners, but maybe some of it got cut for the final version:

 

Armin Steiner recorded all the songs (and the Smee Concertina pieces) in March & April at Fox (Newman). 

 

Then the trailer cue was recorded in June by Shawn Murphy at Sony (Streisand). 

 

Then the bulk of the score was recorded by Shawn Murphy at Sony in October.  October 26th was the final day of the main scoring sessions, and after a double-day of recording the score, Williams went over to Fox to record an evening session (back with Steiner) for the solo piano pieces that lead into We Don't Wanna Grow Up, as well as the first version of Banning Back Home.

 

The OST album was assembled and mastered at this point.

 

On November 2nd, Williams was was back at Fox with Steiner, to record God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen.

 

November 9th was another double-day of recording the rest of the score with Murphy (all the cues that hadn't been recorded at all yet, as well as the final set of inserts/revisions).

 

On November 13th, the revised version of Banning Back Home was recorded by Murphy at Sony.

 

 

So two fun trivia bits are that each version of Banning Back Home was recorded in a completely different room by a completely different recording engineer from one another, and music from two separate rooms is combined in the track "Pick 'Em Up"

[QuartalHarmony 543]

Goodness me, I feel tired just reading that list.

[Brando 1,864]

I had to re-read it just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. It's wild that they were down to the wire recording the finishing touches on this score with only a little over a month to go for certain recording dates.

[Faleel 5,358]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

 music from two separate rooms is combined in the track "Pick 'Em Up"

Which room was the percussion track recorded in?

[Jay 37,370]

58 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:

Goodness me, I feel tired just reading that list.

 

TL;DR:

 

The trailer cue, the entire score, Take Me Out To The Ball Game, and the film version of Banning Back Home were recorded by Murphy at Sony. 

 

The 1991 songs, Smee Concertina, school play piano, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, and first version of Banning Back Home were recorded by Steiner at Fox.

 

35 minutes ago, Brando said:

I had to re-read it just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. It's wild that they were down to the wire recording the finishing touches on this score with only a little over a month to go for certain recording dates.

 

The final recording day for Always was only 2 1/2 weeks before that film's opening date, so Hook is an improvement in that regard!

 

 

33 minutes ago, Presto said:

Which room was the percussion track recorded in?

 

The song was recorded by Steiner at Fox.  The score cue (also heard clean as "The Never Band" on Disc 3) was recorded by Murphy at Sony

[Faleel 5,358]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

Not as bad as Always!

 

The song was recorded by Steiner.  The score cue (also heard clean as "The Never Band" on Disc 3) was recorded by Murphy

Okay, I was asking because the percussion sort of reminded me of this cue from Ben-Hur which was also recorded in Culver City.

 

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I find myself greatly preferring Believe to its film score counterpart, which turns it into a more generic "wonder theme".  The slight changes in accompaniment and melody make it a lot more heartfelt and with a layer of melancholy even.  

Reminds me of Remembering Emilie from War Horse or even parts of Schindler's List 

 

[John Takis 206]

17 hours ago, Holko said:

Ah yes, thanks to you and @John Takis for the confirmation. So it could have been a weak/badly named sample on the keyboard, or they changed their minds while recording?

 

I suppose I disagree with your premise that it doesn't sound like a cimbalom (or at least a decent approximation of one). It sounds sufficiently "cimbalom-ish" to my ear. The actual instrument has quite a wide range extending into the higher registers.

[Faleel 5,358]

8 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I find myself greatly preferring Believe to its film score counterpart, which turns it into a more generic "wonder theme". 

 

Nah, you did Luke.

[Jay 37,370]

Hook Part 1 podcast is up, featuring Mike Matessino, @TownerFan, and @mahler3

 

NEW PODCAST EPISODE!

RETURN TO NEVERLAND: 'HOOK - THE ULTIMATE EDITION' PODCAST SPECIAL (Part 1)

The Legacy of John Williams presents a multi-part podcast special dedicated to HOOK – THE ULTIMATE EDITION, a 3-CD set of John Williams’ magnificent score for the 1991 film directed by Steven Spielberg, now available from La-La Land Records.

In Part One, soundtrack producer Mike Matessino sits down to talk about the genesis of Steven Spielberg’s 1991 fantasy epic, its place within the director’s filmography and the long history of how HOOK almost became a musical, while also addressing how it sits in the canon of the Steven Spielberg/John Williams collaboration; Matessino also talks about his friendship with lyricist Leslie Bricusse, the years-in-the-making process of assembling and producing the new set and his own personal journey to bring it to life with the utmost level of care and detail that such music always deserved.

LISTEN tinyurl.com/23xppnvk

Available on all major podcasting platforms.

 

https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid0e7oxKkcoyY7smUU5FfCFWi4Vdq53caF8vXKTofGAcdvikWMf1idWrTu5kqhzyrV8l

[Delorean90 42]

14 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I find myself greatly preferring Believe to its film score counterpart, which turns it into a more generic "wonder theme".  The slight changes in accompaniment and melody make it a lot more heartfelt and with a layer of melancholy even.  

Reminds me of Remembering Emilie from War Horse or even parts of Schindler's List 

 

 

I don't think of the score theme as more generic, but I DO wish we'd gotten some of those song progressions in iterations of the theme for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Hook Part 1 podcast is up, featuring Mike Matessino, @TownerFan, and @mahler3

 

NEW PODCAST EPISODE!

RETURN TO NEVERLAND: 'HOOK - THE ULTIMATE EDITION' PODCAST SPECIAL (Part 1)

The Legacy of John Williams presents a multi-part podcast special dedicated to HOOK – THE ULTIMATE EDITION, a 3-CD set of John Williams’ magnificent score for the 1991 film directed by Steven Spielberg, now available from La-La Land Records.

In Part One, soundtrack producer Mike Matessino sits down to talk about the genesis of Steven Spielberg’s 1991 fantasy epic, its place within the director’s filmography and the long history of how HOOK almost became a musical, while also addressing how it sits in the canon of the Steven Spielberg/John Williams collaboration; Matessino also talks about his friendship with lyricist Leslie Bricusse, the years-in-the-making process of assembling and producing the new set and his own personal journey to bring it to life with the utmost level of care and detail that such music always deserved.

LISTEN tinyurl.com/23xppnvk

Available on all major podcasting platforms.

 

https://www.facebook.com/thelegacyofjohnwilliams/posts/pfbid0e7oxKkcoyY7smUU5FfCFWi4Vdq53caF8vXKTofGAcdvikWMf1idWrTu5kqhzyrV8l

Looking forward to listening to this!

[Levraibond 14]

Listening to the "When You're Alone (instrumental version)", I was wondering where this came from ? Is it just a previously unreleased concert version? 

Can't get enough of this Ultimate Edition!

[MrJosh 892]

I have listened to the set twice through now on headphones, and now mid-way through on my stereo speakers. 

 

This is such a beautiful, fantastic, amazing release! I was shocked to see it on LLL announcement. After so many years of people here chanting 'give us the hook' and it not happening for a while, I kind of put it out of my mind and half forgot about it. And to know it has been in process since 2016???? That's nuts, and it must have been hard for @Jay to keep a straight face each time hopes of the MM Hook being released came up. 

 

I love the rich colors in the artwork and booklet, all beautifully done. Really loved the Amistad-style liner notes detailing the alternates. I read that twice back to back to make sure I had it all straight. 

 

But...I listened once through without reading anything, and I'm glad I did!!! 

 

It occurred to me, my first listen through this Ultimate Edition, was my last listen prior to hearing the songs....and once I heard the songs, the score took on a new life/ new meaning. From my 2nd listen onward, I now cannot go back to hearing those specific melodies without having the songs and some of their lyrics and meanings in mind! So this release is really transformative in that way. It was really cool, because listening a 2nd time, was like a new experience after hearing Disc 3. That's really unique, I can't imagine any other release that gave me that experience!

 

Disc 3 is super cool in that it is its own self-contained alternate-world presentation of the score but with songs incorporated. Really amazing that it ended up that way rather than say, a list of alternates and then like a section of "Songs" all together. Much much more meaningful having them incorporated into a playlist of the other music like this. 

 

I LOVE low below. What a cool, super-pirate-y fun sequence! I would have actually liked it if that whole sequence was finalized and made it into the film. Remember when someone posted a picture of some Low Below sheet music on the forums and I posted a goofy clip of me playing a snippet of the melody on piano? I'm glad to see I guessed the approximate tempo right haha. 

 

Although funny story, my wife walked into the room right at the "hook-ers" lyrics blasted through my speakers and gave me a "what did I just hear?" look. "It's Hook dear, it's fine it's a kids movie!" I said. 

 

I've always loved the Believe and Mothers theme (although I used to call the latter Tootles' Theme and had no name for the former). Hearing their songs, I really love Believe as a song and now it makes sense where the theme is used in the film. I liked the performance of Mothers less, but I am guessing the singer is emulating the sound of a child singing the song, so it makes sense. 

 

Childhood is a lovely song too, really quite beautiful and wonderful voice of Bobbi Page.

 

I super love Stick With Me, it's such a perfect slithery bad-guy-trying-to-seduce type of song. I always imagined this melody was a song, and imagined how it might be, and this is exactly along the lines I was thinking. Really fun. 

 

The sound quality is wonderful and it was a moving experience to listen to all this music. Too many wonderful moments to mention (I might make another post later of some of my favorite parts), but there are two moments in particular that made me smile and I got lost in the music. 1), the moment of Peter flying in Peter Remembers (The Flying Sequence) at 6:05. I've heard this many times before but getting to it after listening to the 1Hr 30Min of score prior, it's a wonderful arrival point in the score. The orchestra has such a great energy on this cue and I can almost 'feel' the excitement. 2), the fanfare in The Sword Fight and The End Of Hook starting around 5:43 and culminating in that bright, triumphant chord at 5:52 with the major7th in there is a glorious moment. 

 

Oh, I'll add a third, the very end, last statement of the Mothers theme in Farewell Neverland (9:14 or so). Hearing the melody emanate from the middle range cellos/horns, violins playing the sparkling patterns, and then the ww/picc run that soars up and down a few times, always gives me goosebumps. 

 

 

A truly magical and momentous release this is. Thank you so much for all of the time and work put into it, Mike Matessino, @Jay, @John Takis, Jim Titus, and everyone else involved. 

 

 

[oierem 152]

I've listened to the first two discs (planning to listen to Disc 3 tonight) - and I'm reading the liner notes for each CD after the first listen.

As everyone else has said, magnificent release of one of the best soundtracks ever.

 

Couple of comments/nitpicks.

 

The liner notes (which are awesome) say that both versions of Banning Back Home are longer than the actual scene in the film. That's not correct, is it? The film version is featured without edits in the final film, as far as I know. (The album version, which I always liked less than the film version, is FANTASTIC in its extended form! Great solos!)

 

Thinking about how to create my own playlist while keeping the Film Presentation & Musical Album concept, I'm thinking that the five additional tracks at the end of Disc 2 could be incorporated into the Disc 3 program, right? I'm assuming the only reason they are not there is because lack of space, but I think it would be a more logical place. After all, Disc 3 contains a lot of alternates, so the "Additional Music" belongs there, I think. 

 

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Okay, the journey has begun. Full confession: I never read the novel or saw the 2003 movie. Something to correct someday.

 

1-01.        I don’t like the correct speed. The wrong one really sounded beautiful. I also don’t like the viola extension, but the double bass writing is astonishing. As for Filmtracks claiming it’s the best 90 seconds JW ever wrote: no way.

1-02.        Such a lovely piano cue. I thought the kids’ song was going to be unbearable, but I really didn’t dislike it at all today, though as I recall, the OST hardly had any pause between tracks 2 and 3, which I really liked.

1-03.        So is this the version based on the film stem rip on the previous LLL?

1-04.        I feel like meditating or embracing the whole world. The ending is so gorgeous, but the final horn should have been dialled out…

1-05.        …unless it had segued right into The Bedroom. No wonder John Takis was so impressed with this cue as a child. The track ends with a rather long silence.

1-06.        I love the ‘classical-esque’ ending to this track.

1-07.        When You’re Alone. What a theme.

1-08.        The violins are so fantastic in this cue.

1-09.        As is the clarity in this release overall, you really hear every single thing the orchestra does. I still wish that G minor ending could have gone on longer, though: it would have been wonderful to hear JW elaborate on the violin possibilities.

1-10.        Although it’s a very lovely track, I wouldn’t have minded it in the bonus section as it’s in a way redundant.

1-11.        No comments.

1-12.        I never understood the idea behind the writing at the very beginning before Tink appears. It’s… weird and not in tune with what the scene required, I think. But then her theme comes. And how glorious it is. I’ll be whistling it all day. Can’t Spielberg do a Tinker Bell film/trilogy?

1-13.        At first I wondered why this wasn’t part of track 12, but now it clicked. It’s perfect this way.

1-14.        I want to see that Slicing the Hand scene. Funny that the booklet doesn’t mention it in the otherwise magnificent score analysis. And I LOVE 2:54!!!

1-15.        And I also love 0:30.

 

That’s it for now, more later.

[Jay 37,370]

1 hour ago, oierem said:

Thinking about how to create my own playlist while keeping the Film Presentation & Musical Album concept, I'm thinking that the five additional tracks at the end of Disc 2 could be incorporated into the Disc 3 program, right?

 

 

On 06/12/2023 at 7:55 PM, John Takis said:

2-11. Hook Prologue 1:25
3-01. We Don’t Wanna Grow Up * 1:52
2-12. Banning Back Home (Extended Version) 4:24
3-02. God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen 1:10
3-03. Childhood * 3:54
3-04. When You’re Alone – Moira’s Lullaby * :46
3-05. The Stories Are True (Alternate) 2:24
3-06. The Arrival Of Tink (Alternate) 3:35
3-07. The Flight To Neverland (Alternate) 2:33
3-08. Low Below – Pirate Sequence * 4:58
3-09. Hook’s Entrance (Alternate) 2:42
2-13. From Mermaids To Lost Boys 4:26
3-10. The Lost Boy Chase (Alternate) 3:34

2-14. The Face Of Pan (Choral Version) 2:43
3-11. The Never Song * 2:04
3-12. The Never-Band 1:20
3-13. The Never-Feast 4:42
3-14. When You’re Alone (Instrumental) 3:19
3-15. Mothers * 2:26
3-16. Stick With Me * 2:00
3-17. Take Me Out To The Ball Game 2:18
3-18. Remembering Childhood 11:06
3-19. Believe * 3:01
2-15. The Ultimate War 7:54
3-20. Farewell Neverland (Short Version / Alternate) 6:54
3-21. Hook Exit Music (Alternate) 1:48

[crocodile 8,017]

Just listened to the main programme all the way through while writing essay for a course. This score can sometimes be much of muchness, sort of like Temple of Doom, but it is so rich in enthusiasm and themes that I just cannot hate it. Attending recording sessions must have been quite something for everyone involved. I cannot think of many scores that put so much effort into each cue (part of the reason why it might be so exhausting sometimes). Lovely presentation, I can see myself revisiting this work much more frequently now.

 

On a side note, I have only heard the 2012 release once. I didn't like it from the outset, especially the film stem bits which really bothered me (and compared to some of you, I am tone deaf!). It is the only time in the LLL run I thought the ball has been dropped and the product was subpar, save maybe for the packaging. But, I suppose, all is forgiven and it will be now merely an interesting footnote in the history of the film and its music.

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,484]

The myriad of custom playlists that can be created with this 3-CD set will certainly keep me occupied for a while.

 

[bollemanneke 3,349]

1-16. The Childhood and Low Below variations are so wonderful.

1-17. Wonder why this had to be its own track, but I’m still amazed at all the ways you can interpret those Childhood statements: loss of childhood, inner child trying to break free etc. The Jolly Roger theme is still gorgeous too, as is the woodwind writing in general. And Tink, of course. I wonder why nobody ever set that tune to lyrics. It seems to be crying out for its own text. But I will say that, as great the ending is, it’s really unfortunate that the cue still ends in that long horn note that’s so clearly meant to overlap with the mermaid beginning. It goes nowhere now.

1-18. That Believe quote is so great and another instance of a moment when the film just should have been paused so that JW could write more of it.

1-19. I hate you, Rufio, die already. Boil him, mash him, put him into stew. Its own track again, which kind of works, but it really shouldn’t be separated from the chase music, the two are clearly meant to go together.

1-20. Perfect music for the insufferable brats it underscores. And another fantastic Childhood statement and implications of it at the end.

1-21. Another great cue, but I feel more than ever that the concert arrangement is just vastly superior. I know there was no time and all here, but it feels like music someone demanded to be pasted over a scene that was ultimately too short and not even that good. Or rather, the movie does not deserve this music in the slightest. And I didn’t really hear that this is Pan’s theme, as the liner notes say.

1-22. Whoever moved this to the bonus section in 2012 had no taste. I love the cellos and clarinets here.

1-23. Again, could have been one track with 22, and again, the concert piece is so much better.

1-24. Yeah, next. Urgh. I’m going to keep the overlays from the 2012 set and get rid of this one. Does JW do the whistling here, too?

1-25. I don’t think the music for Maggie disrupting the lesson is appropriate. And she does it so well.

1-26. Is this the worst and most disgustingly awful and unforgivable scene JW ever scored? Though the sound is still above and beyond the previous releases, I still think the cue sounds a bit weird, as if recorded in another, smaller room. And again, I feel like a song is just waiting to burst out of this music.

1-27. The harp writing in the beginning is out of this world. I was really surprised at the cut at 2:14, though, and remember it being very clunky in the film. Is this how it was recorded or meant to play? I don’t really like it, my ideal version would be the insert followed by everything as recorded. Love how Pan’s theme makes its entrance here, though.

1-28. Amber Scott. Just… breathtaking. I LOVE how imperfectly perfect she sings here. Did JW do the recording with her, as with Margot Kidder? I wonder why or if she never did more with her singing. This is so wonderfully innocent and mournful.

1-29. And I HATE that stupid kid.

 

More in two days. GOOD NIGHT JWFAN!!!!!!!

 

[MrJosh 892]

On 29/12/2023 at 6:10 AM, Levraibond said:

Listening to the "When You're Alone (instrumental version)", I was wondering where this came from ? Is it just a previously unreleased concert version? 

Can't get enough of this Ultimate Edition!

I don't know the answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was for playback for Amber Scott to sing with. The synth/bells sound playing the melody is so full and clear, easy to hear, maybe it's to aid with singing on pitch/at the right time. 

 

 

[Hook1991 10]

I can’t say enough about this soundtrack. It is fantastic. I actually just deleted my previous Hook Expanded Release from 2012. This one blows that one out of the water. The production is so well done. 
 

Hearing the music finally properly presented is the absolute best. To me it is John William’s best score. I also love so many others as well. Home Alone 1&2, His Harry Potter scores, Star Wars and Jurassic Park, just to name a few. I’m so glad I preordered this before it was released. It is a masterpiece. Still my favorite piece of music is the entire Ultimate War battle music including “Death of Rufio” and “Sword fight and the end of Hook”. I can’t get enough of it. 

[Faleel 5,358]

Anybody else notice the Pan theme and the State Farm jingle are kind of similar?

 

 

[Holko 9,529]

Hook-movie.com's Mike interview is now up:

 

[BrotherSound 2,242]

3 hours ago, Holko said:

Hook-movie.com's Mike interview is now up:

Confirmation that the Julie Andrews version of Childhood does exist, but that she declined to have it included.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

Spoken word too... so Hook was supposed to have two raps!

[Holko 9,529]

Yeah that and his explanation helps with the pain of not having it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

21 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Confirmation that the Julie Andrews version of Childhood does exist, but that she declined to have it included.

Oh 😕

[Faleel 5,358]

14 minutes ago, Holko said:

Yeah that and his explanation helps with the pain of not having it.

Yeah, if it was spoken word, it feels like it would be a better fit for a documentary (think the one on the AUJ doc, with the alternate versions and rehearsals of Misty Mountains)