Popular Post Andy 4,160 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 I don’t care for the look of the film, but the set photography is splendid. I highly recommend this book for an appreciation of setups which didn’t work in motion, yet yielded stills that are are lovely to look at. Yavar Moradi, Brando, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,599 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 I've just seen an A/B Blu/4K, on YouTube. It looks pretty good, in 4K. Skin tones are far more real, and it's lost its overall redness. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,644 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: I've just seen an A/B Blu/4K, on YouTube. It looks pretty good, in 4K. Skin tones are far more real, and it's lost its overall redness. I have a vague memory of the original Blu ray looking "off" from my impression of watching the film in the theaters/DVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,349 Posted August 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 19, 2022 For the 4K they did a fresh OCN scan and colour graded the film from scratch. Whatever Kaminski was thinking when he supervised the DI in 2008, he ruined his own photography. The most laughable part is they were trying to replicate Slocombe's work with the colour grade. I recall this film was Kaminski's first DI... and boy, it shows. The 4K version looks far closer to the original trilogy and probably reflects what Kaminski actually shot, before he tinkered with it digitally. All his trademarks still rear their head though – glossy filters, smoky interiors, excessive backlighting, etc. A far cry from Slocombe's grounded photography. Here's hoping Indy 5 is a bit more faithful to the original trilogy. Brando, Yavar Moradi, Edmilson and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,599 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: I have a vague memory of the original Blu ray looking "off" from my impression of watching the film in the theaters/DVD You actually paid to watch this?! 2 hours ago, crumbs said: Here's hoping Indy 5 is a bit more faithful to the original trilogy. I'll settle for "good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Drew 590 Posted August 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 19, 2022 KOTCS is a way over-hated flick. It's not that bad. Bellosh, Andy, Gabriel Bezerra and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 308 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 On 18/08/2022 at 12:39 PM, Brando said: Ants is one of the most perfect cues for Skull. The opening of the cue sounds like what it feels like to have ants crawling all over you. Still find amusing that it was used in Fallen Order, one of major "references" from other Williams projects. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,681 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 6 hours ago, Drew said: It's not that bad. Sort of explains why people dislike it. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 15 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said: Still find amusing that it was used in Fallen Order, one of major "references" from other Williams projects. Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted August 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2022 16 hours ago, Drew said: KOTCS is a way over-hated flick. It's not that bad. Yes it is. Naïve Old Fart, Edmilson and Nick1Ø66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,407 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 18 hours ago, crumbs said: Here's hoping Indy 5 is a bit more faithful to the original trilogy. I found Indy 4 surprisingly true to the previous films. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toothless 964 Posted August 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2022 It cannot solve the screenplay but that 4K release at least solved one major issue with the movie and it's way more acceptable look-wise now. Bayesian, Brando and blondheim 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,731 Posted August 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2022 On 19/8/2022 at 6:52 PM, Drew said: KOTCS is a way over-hated flick. It's not that bad. blondheim, Edmilson, Naïve Old Fart and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,971 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 To me a fourth Indy film - like a fifth - was in many ways always going to be a doomed enterprise, so maybe I'm not the best judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, toothless said: It cannot solve the screenplay but that 4K release at least solved one major issue with the movie and it's way more acceptable look-wise now. Oh wow, it looks so much more better. I’ve only ever seen the dvd release of it and I’m holding out for a 4K set with all 5 movies, so it’ll be a little while before I can enjoy it this way. But it looks really good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,027 Posted August 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2022 The problem with the fourth one was that it never really feels like a coherent story that ties characters, plot and themes into any sort of whole. It's just a string of ideas from various writers clumsily jumbled together. With a good script, no one would complain about UFOs, setting or villains, I can guarantee that. The idea can be as silly or goofy as they want as long as the execution is graceful. Karol GerateWohl, blondheim, Andy and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,160 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 Yep!!!! That’s it precisely. 10 minutes ago, crocodile said: it never really feels like a coherent story that ties characters, plot and themes into any sort of whole. It's just a string of ideas from various writers clumsily jumbled together. Here is a rarely seen photo of David Koepp writing the script, unaware of its lack of connectedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,027 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 Actually, Koepp spoke about his experiences recently and he's not too fond of it either. But then, he was just a hired hand who was asked to put it together from pre-existing pieces decided on by others. Karol Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,160 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 That’s interesting to hear, but I’m sure he’d be more fond of it if it was well received, perhaps willing to overlook circumstances that are unappealing for a script writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 308 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 10 hours ago, crumbs said: Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,407 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 The third act of Indy 4 is a complete mess. But the first two I found pretty much OK. Bellosh and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 969 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, crocodile said: Actually, Koepp spoke about his experiences recently and he's not too fond of it either. But then, he was just a hired hand who was asked to put it together from pre-existing pieces decided on by others. Karol Wasn't Frank Darabont involved early on and have a draft rejected or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,442 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 4 hours ago, GerateWohl said: The third act of Indy 4 is a complete mess. But the first two I found pretty much OK. Agreed. Movie goes to shit when Marion is introduced. Which is a shame cause the character was so amazing in raiders. Jungle chase was incredibly tame. Nobody biting it in the jungle cutter vehicle was peak rated G. Indy being the only one on screen watching the flying saucer take off was amazing. And Indy grabbing the hat from Mutt at the end was IMO, the greatest send off to Indy ever. Yes even better than the end to TLC. GerateWohl, Andy and oierem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,160 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, Bellosh said: Movie goes to shit when Marion is introduced. Yes. I still like the jungle chase though. And I adore the ant fight. I think if the movie was super lean with just Indy and Mutt, it would’ve helped a lot. No Mac, Marion, or Oxley. BUT… I still think it’s a fun movie that is over maligned. 23 minutes ago, Bellosh said: And Indy grabbing the hat from Mutt at the end was IMO, the greatest send off to Indy ever. Yes even better than the end to TLC. Wow! That’s cool that you enjoy the ending that much. I’m partial to the happy ending of Temple of Doom after Indy perseveres and presents the stone at the top of the bridge and brings home the kids. Brando, Bellosh and oierem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,442 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Andy said: Yes. I still like the jungle chase though. And I adore the ant fight. I think if the movie was super lean with just Indy and Mutt, it would’ve helped a lot. No Mac, Marion, or Oxley. BUT… I still think it’s a fun movie that is over maligned. Wow! That’s cool that you enjoy the ending that much. I’m partial to the happy ending of Temple of Doom after Indy perseveres and presents the stone at the top of the bridge and brings home the kids. Oh I still think the ending of ToD is the best. Movies in franchises don't end like they do in ToD anymore. Just a good ole fashioned happy ending. Onto the next adventure. Jay, Brando, Andy and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,160 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 While on the topic of the finales, I’ll take the opportunity to say I think the End Credits suite of KOTCS is flipping fantastic, and easily the highlight of the entire score. When I saw it in the theater and the familiar Raiders March began to diverge from expectation and incorporate the Mutt motifs, my brother and I turned to each other and our jaws dropped. I still get chills over the dramatic brassy end coda too. blondheim, Falstaft, artguy360 and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,681 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Andy said: While on the topic of the finales, I’ll take the opportunity to say I think the End Credits suite of KOTCS is flipping fantastic, and easily the highlight of the entire score. When I saw it in the theater and the familiar Raiders March began to diverge from expectation and incorporate the Mutt motifs, my brother and I turned to each other and our jaws dropped. I still get chills over the dramatic brassy end coda too. I like it, but also not: sort of like Williams telling me "I know what kind of music you would like me to compose, and I can damn well do it without much effort, but I am not going to do it (other than this one-minute tease to prove that I can)." ins and Drew 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 I agree his end credits for Crystal Skull is pretty great. I LOVE the virtuosic flute solo riff on the Russian material. Its got to be the most themes worked into an Indy End Credits suite of all four scores Hmmm. That gets we wondering, what end credits piece composed (not edited together ) by the Maestro contains the most themes? Perhaps force awakens?… BrotherSound, Brando, artguy360 and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Andy said: While on the topic of the finales, I’ll take the opportunity to say I think the End Credits suite of KOTCS is flipping fantastic, and easily the highlight of the entire score. When I saw it in the theater and the familiar Raiders March began to diverge from expectation and incorporate the Mutt motifs, my brother and I turned to each other and our jaws dropped. I still get chills over the dramatic brassy end coda too. That brief snippet of music is the most original and refreshing music in the entire score. It was like a glimpse of what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,613 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 10 hours ago, crocodile said: Actually, Koepp spoke about his experiences recently and he's not too fond of it either. But then, he was just a hired hand who was asked to put it together from pre-existing pieces decided on by others. Interestingly that’s the job Nicholas Meyer got handed when he took on Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Yavar crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,731 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 I mean it with absolutely no hyperbole, but I think Crystal Skull is Spielberg’s worst film. And in any event, the quicksand scene is certainly the most embarrassing. Coming from a director who filmed a scene of Slim Pickens dropping boots into a toilet on a Japanese submarine, that’s saying something. Edmilson, blondheim, Naïve Old Fart and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,599 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 One early authentic American hari kari knife. Pass it around, boys, maybe somebody's got a use for it. @Nick1Ø66, I'd take Slim Pickens dropping boots into the toilet of a Japanese submarine, over very bad cgi monkeys, any day. Nick1Ø66 and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 The ultimate problem with KOCS is that it's aggressively mediocre. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, crumbs said: The ultimate problem with KOCS is that it's aggressively mediocre. Yes. Maybe even militantly mediocre. It never colors outside the lines. That’s my problem with a lot of things. This most recent Rings of Power score included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,599 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, crumbs said: The ultimate problem with KOCS is that it's aggressively mediocre. "aggressively mediocre". That's about the best damn review of KOTCS that I have read. Edmilson and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,731 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, crumbs said: The ultimate problem with KOCS is that it's aggressively mediocre. You've just described Ron Howard's entire oeuvre. Fabulin and Chen G. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,349 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said: You've just described Ron Howard's entire oeuvre. Check out Thirteen Lives; I was rather impressed with his tension building there. Spielberg's obviously the better director, though he has his misses. KOCS is like a tug-of-war between Lucas wanting something totally fresh and crazy, and Spielberg wanting to dial it back and play it safe. The result was a four-quadrant safe, haphazard mess. In hindsight he probably should've embraced the absurdity, same as TOD embracing cults, voodoo dolls, demonic possession and slave children. Though considering everyone complains about the nuke/fridge scene, maybe he was damned either way. I'd argue the first act is classic Indiana Jones, then it takes a serious nosedive once they reach Peru. Edmilson, Andy, Tom and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,681 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 minute ago, crumbs said: Check out Thirteen Lives. I was rather impressed with his tension building there. Overall though Spielberg's the better director, though he has his misses. KOCS is like a tug-of-war between Lucas wanting something totally fresh and unexpected for Indy 4, then Spielberg wanting to dial it back and play it safe. The result was a four-quadrant, haphazard mess. In hindsight he probably should've embraced the absurdity and run with it, in the same way TOD embraces cults, voodoo dolls, demonic possession and slave children. Then again, the way everyone complains about the nuke/fridge scene being the worst part of KOCS, maybe he was damned whatever direction he took. I'd argue the first act is classic Indiana Jones, then it takes a serious nosedive once they reach Peru. I also like the opening act. I have problems with the diner/university scenes, but that is because they put every idiomatic 50's expression they could think of in it. You don't need to scream "we are in the 50s." The other films do a nice job of using the 30s as a backdrop but without the cringeworthy speech. I really hope V has the 60s as the backdrop but without continual uses of words like "groovy," otherwise it too will be cringeworthy. Fabulin and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,971 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, crumbs said: KOCS is like a tug-of-war between Lucas wanting something totally fresh and crazy for Indy 4, and Spielberg wanting to dial it back and play it safe. I always find these "picking apart the creative team to find the party to blame" discussions very reductive. We need a far better understanding to who concieved of each creative choice taken in the script, and who wrote what, before we can start to construct such a narrative. Its just a movie that (1) was in some ways a doomed enterprise from the outset and (2) had - for whatever reason - things go astray in the creative process. Andy and DarthDementous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tom said: I have problems with the diner/university scenes, but that is because they put every idiomatic 50's expression they could think of in it. You don't need to scream "we are in the 50s." Agreed, the film hits viewers over the head about the time period when it was just the backdrop in past films. Don't mind the Elvis opening but that was all we needed to establish the setting. Following it up with a bunch of 50's cliches was unnecessary. 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I always find these "picking apart the creative team to find the party to blame" discussions very reductive. We need a far better understanding to who concieved of each creative choice taken in the script, and who wrote what, before we can start to construct such a narrative. If you follow the various scripts and interviews, it's not hard to decipher who was responsible for what. It's patently obvious Spielberg hated the idea of aliens while Lucas loved it, which is ultimately why the film feels like a tug of war between two competing visions. We can all make our own judgements about what was successful or not from there. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,971 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, crumbs said: If you follow the various scripts and interviews, it's not hard to decipher who was responsible for what. It's patently obvious Spielberg hated the idea of aliens while Lucas loved it, which is ultimately why the film feels like a tug of war between two competing visions. Do we have all the drafts available to us? My memory is that we don't. And yes, we do know Lucas and Spielberg butted heads about the alien idea, and while I don't particularly like it in the film, its far, far from the movie's biggest shortcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, crumbs said: Overall Spielberg's the better director, though he has his misses. He is not *overall* the better director, but one of America's greatest film directors ever, warts and all. I will not piss on Ron Howard, who is - or better, can be - a competent guy, but he certainly never aspired to such lofty throne. Nick1Ø66 and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Do we have all the drafts available to us? My memory is that we don't. And yes, we do know Lucas and Spielberg butted heads about the alien idea, and while I don't particularly like it in the film, its far, far from the movie's biggest shortcoming. There's at least 3 drafts available from different writers, plus the finished product. Pair that with all the interviews and it's enough to piece the puzzle together. No disagreements on your second statement; aliens are the least of the film's problems. It's funny how everyone gets so fixated on that but ignores the horrendous dialogue, stilted performances, flat comedy, stagnant plotting, lack of practical locations, etc. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,599 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 One thing about KOTCS that I have always found very affecting, is the relationship between Oxley, and Mutt. One can tell, from Mutt reactions, that he clearly loves Oxley, and, for me, that is emotional centre of the film, and not Jones and Marian. KOTCS could have been not only a good Indiana Jones film, but a great film, in its own right, but it seems that it was comprised, from the start. Perhaps, as some JWfaners have suggested, they should have embraced the madness, and called the film (as it was rumoured to be) INDIANA JONES AND THE SAUCER MEN FROM MARS. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,731 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, crumbs said: Check out Thirteen Lives; I was rather impressed with his tension building there. Overall Spielberg's the better director, though he has his misses. Well Spielberg is the better director, period, especially in his prime. But Howard reminds me of latter stage Spielberg...a technically proficient, efficiency-driven director capable of getting some good performances from his actors while putting out competent, well-made films that are otherwise uninspiring and mostly forgettable. The difference is, before he got to this stage, Spielberg had an entire career of making some of the best films in cinematic history, including a good number of bona fide Hollywood classics. Howard doesn't have such laurels to rest on. I don't know if Howard has made a particularly bad film, the problem is he hasn't made a particularly great one either. He's the Salieri of film directors. That said, Thirteen Lives is a film I'm interested in, so I'll check it out! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,160 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 3 hours ago, crumbs said: The ultimate problem with KOCS is that it's aggressively mediocre. 49 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: One thing about KOTCS that I have always found very affecting, is the relationship between Oxley, and Mutt. One can tell, from Mutt reactions, that he clearly loves Oxley, and, for me, that is emotional centre of the film, and not Jones and Marian. Yes. People have a tough time separating their hate for Shia, but he gives a good performance of a kid trying hard to keep his cool, but truly wracked with worry for his father figure. But then it has no payoff, and is completely sabotaged by having Oxley unlikable and nuts. Do Mutt and he ever get a coherent moment together? Naïve Old Fart and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,731 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 20 hours ago, Chen G. said: And yes, we do know Lucas and Spielberg butted heads about the alien idea, and while I don't particularly like it in the film, its far, far from the movie's biggest shortcoming. Yeah, the alien thing (which was solely George's idea) is awful, from conception to execution. But that said, it only really becomes a plot thing in, what, the last 5 minutes of the film? It would almost be forgivable if everything leading up to it wasn't equally bad. As for the Skull itself, it's kind of a lame McGuffin, but the McGuffin itself really doesn't matter that much in these films. The real problem with Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull however is Spielberg's utter disinterest and lack of passion for a project that he really didn't really want to do anyway, and it shows on the screen. But it was either George's dopey idea or nothing, and he & Ford finally relented. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,349 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 Spielberg's boredom shines through after the first act. You can tell he lost interest halfway through photography, as if he suddenly realised why he hadn't done a fourth film years earlier. Didn't help that his preferred script got rejected by Lucas and they had to start over. That probably created a fair degree of angst. I'm quietly relieved he didn't return for 5, if it was going to be another soulless, disinterested effort from him. Edmilson, Naïve Old Fart and Nick1Ø66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,715 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 I have no quarrels with Shia or basically anything character-related. That lot is just some harmless fun. My indifference towards the movie is really down to the Skull being such a boring plot device, the aliens rubbish at the end, and the entire thing having such a fake, plasticy look after all the PR they did about doing everything for real. Edmilson, Naïve Old Fart and Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,160 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 @Richard Penna Yeah, remember that? I’d forgotten all the PR about how it was all done old school to match the other films. What a setup! crumbs and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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